Just when I think I've got space to breath something else happens. For the last week my daughter has been acting like a jerk, mostly typical teen rebelion. Last night she went to far and said some pretty nasty things to me and H.
I had started to handle it but H went ballistic. He was screaming and yelling in her face and then he forced other daughter to get involved in the whole mess. He went as far as to throw and break her hairdryer, almost hitting her sister with it. It took me pushing and shoving him in a chair yelling at him to stop to get him to quit. I have been with this man for 25 years and he has never been like this with them.

I know he's under a lot of pressure right now, ending his A and starting a new business, but he scared my girls. Then he said to them maybe they would be happier if he left, even though my kids don't know about the A I saw the way their faces froze. It was a horrible thing to say to them. I managed to calm everyone down and to talk to my daughter about her unacceptable behavior.
He appologized to both girls and me and we all went to bed.

This morning he said he knew what he did was wrong but that all the pressure of our trying to work things out and the fact that he knows he can never be with OW again is taking it's toll on him (what the h*ll does he thinks it's doing to me?). I almost told him to get out and find his "true love" but don't call me when you relize you can't go home again and your kids hate you. But I didn't, I stayed calm and talked him thru it but it was the hardest thing I've ever done.

I know he loves our kids and would never intentionally hurt them but scenes like last night can't happen again. My one daughter wrote her father a letter last night telling him how she understood starting a new business is very stressfull and that she never wanted him to go away. She said she would be as good as possible to help him. She also wrote me to tell me that she knows how much I love her and would do anything for the 3 of them and how much she loves me. Quite a kid.

Did I do the right thing by working it thru or should I just have thrown him out on his sorry butt?

U&A
I just read your post. Sounds like the nights in my house when I was growing up. My father had a terrible temper. It happened all the time.
Somehow I don't think men quite know what to do when they have a lot of stress. They sort-of "freak-out".
IMHO I think you did the right thing. I know how hard it must have been. As long as he did not physically hurt you or the kids, you are ok for now. I agree that he can not continue to act that way to you or the kids. Didn't his Mamma ever tell him to go outside and kick a tree when he was that mad??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I hope you have been able to help him see that he scared the kids, scared you, and that he has to control himself better. Tell him that you know there will be times he wants to freakout, but to just walk away and cool off before he does. I can tell you from experence, that a 15 year old girl who is afraid of her fathers anger begins to feel like she never measures up to what he wants her to be. Not good enough. Afraid to "cross" him. I am sure that is not what he wants.
Keep up the work. He will work his way throgh the fog, you'll see. It will pay off. My man was in a "funk" for 3 months. Heavy "funk for about a month. We are better. You will be too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
blessings
traceys

Used --

Glad we've connected up again; I'd lost you there for a few days.

"Quite a kid" is right! She's a gem. You must be very proud of your daughter; shows you've done a lot of things right for her.

In my opinion, you absolutely have done the right thing by trying to work it through. I remember your history from previous posts and I know that you've got your hands full, as does H. You're 100% correct that "scenes like last night can't happen again." It's perhaps inevitable that fallout from both the A and the new business will take its toll on the dynamic of the family and your home in some way or another, but outbursts like that one are immensely destructive for all of you--and he needs to know that and be able to control his temper. Those behaviors are unacceptable by any standards.

You said that in your 25 years together you've never known him to be like this. I suspect that the man you know is still there but buried under tons of rubble and stress. Doesn't excuse anything but is perhaps a partial explanation.

It sounds like you have an amazing family there, one which deserves safeguarding and preservation. I am amazed at your strength and willpower in the face of that onslaught; I'm sure it took everything you had to remain calm and stable. You need to do that and to be there for yourself and your children, even for your H as well. You will need to set and maintain the example and keep the embers of reason and sanity alive and bright for everyone. I know that you can do this; I feel it in your posts. Keep us updated, will you please? We're here for you...

Ammon

Ammon...YOU ROCK!

Thanks guys for your response. But I have to tell you, this girl is losing it fast. Between having to deal with the daily loonacy of 3 teens and just normal daily living, the mood swings of my WH are driving me insane. Up, down, and then down even further. What a crock of bull. I know, I know, keep my cool and keep everyone calm but sometimes I just want to scream.

I asked him point blank today whether he was in touch with OW and his reply was he "hadn't spoken" to her. Then of course I asked what about e-mail and he admited that he had. When I told him that everytime he did something like that it set me back days, he said that he was trying to do the right thing and explain to her what is happening. I said I think it's pretty obvious. His reply was that her last remark to him was "Your where you should be". Not wanting to LB I decided to let the topic rest there for awhile.

Now here's the rub. He has to be in that state in that city this weekend, overnight. He said I am welcome to come with him and even if he ran into her nothing would happen because he is committed to changing his life and who he is. I do believe this but, temptation is a strange creature. I don't want to go for several reasons,
#1 I can't follow him everywhere so why pretend if they wanted to meet they couldn't do it.
#2 I think it would be demoralizing for both of us with me being there like his mommy.
#3 I don't like leaving 3 teenagers home alone overnight.

OK! Some pro's and con's please. This weekend is approching fast. HELP

Used

I'd go!

Used --

I'd go too!

Let's look at the pro's first:

#1 I can't follow him everywhere so why pretend if they wanted to meet they couldn't do it. -- True enough, but we're talking also about your sanity here. Read your words, "this girl is losing it fast." Would you rather sit home and stew all weekend?

#2 I think it would be demoralizing for both of us with me being there like his mommy. -- So, you don't look at it that way; it's a mini-vacation for you both. Sure, he's got to do whatever he's going there for but that's not going to take up all the time. Go have a nice dinner together at a special restaurant. You'll have a whole evening together away from all the pressures of home and the new business stuff. Better yet, order room service and don't even leave the hotel! This way, you're not going as a "chaparone" but as the equal partner in this relationship that you are.

#3 I don't like leaving 3 teenagers home alone overnight. -- Hey, they'll love it and they'll be fine. At their ages, I'd say nothing to worry about there. Give them the hotel phone number, call them with your room number, and shut out the rest of the world. Besides, we've already noted how mature and responsible at least one of your daughters is -- not to worry. They'll thank you for trusting them to be able to handle this on their own.

Con's: none! (Sorry, can't think of any and the benefits to you both outweigh any you could think of yourself)

The man has INVITED you to come along with him! What a gift! Plus he adds, "nothing would happen because he is committed to changing his life and who he is." Gift #2! Spend an hour reading the posts on this board and find me one of them which gives anyone the good fortune that you have right here in your lap.

I know that a couple of day away won't solve all the problems but it's a great place to start. Sounds like he's really trying; now he's gonna need that extra nudge to get that NC commitment out of him (none of this "let her down easy" stuff). This weekend could do the job!

Let us know what you decide and then let us know how things went after you've returned (hint, hint)!

Ammon

Well guys how fast can things go from really looking up to in the toilet? Just a matter of minutes. This afternoon around 3 H went into a complete funk, not working just moping and sighing and feeling in general sorry for himself. And I am ashamed to admit I had had a rough day and that was the straw that broke this camels back. If I have to hear one more time how he can't feel for me like he does for her and that I have no idea how it was and that it was never like that with me I may have to kill him.

I let it go then, said it was about time he relized I was the one who should be beating their breast and crying "why me" That we have a business to get off the ground and I wasnt sinking good money after bad if he couldn't committ himself to putting everything he has into it. That I was not going to lose my home and everything we had worked for all these years because he cant get his head out of his a**.

I also said that by coming back here he made a promise to me and our kids that he was going to be here for us and that if he couldn't do that not to prolong any of our agony. I will not let his selfish, me first way of life ruin theirs. I told him for once in his miserable selfserving life he needed to put someone else before himself.

Yow! Even writing it I can't believe I said it. But I really meant every word and I think that right now, this minute if I could take care of my kids financially without him I would give him the boot, tell the kids what he is and let us get on with our lives. Not exactly plan A is it?

So here I am ready to throw up dinner. Once again with a straight face helping kids with work and trying to make sense of my life in my head while I do it. Because as H said in a sense we are stuck with each other as we try to make a future for our family and to do that we have to make a living which means getting this business off the ground.

And as for the trip I'm at who cares? Let him do what he's going to do. If he wants to live a dishonest life, a life with no integrity then that's what he'll do.

I will keep trying to be the person who I know I am and to help him but I'm not going to be anyones scratching post. Maybe the problem is I've always been the strong one who pulled us thru the real hard times but that was when I thought we were working together. Right now I need someone to be the strong one for me and he has no idea how. Just once I want to be the one to breakdown, leave, get the chance to try something new without all the responsibilities of making a home and life for everyone else. No can do.

Ok, I've whined and cried to you all enough to make us all sick. And I'm sure when I get up tomorrow things will look better. But there sure are sometimes I'd rather not wake up at all. No I wouldn't hurt myself, that just hurts the people left behind. I sure am blue <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . So thanks for the shoulders to cry on. It is surly appreciated.

Used

Used --

I am very sorry for this sudden turn of events. Not at all the way any of us were thinking, is it? You're right, the bottom dropped out very suddenly. I am thankful that you've written to us about this; I can feel your frustration and disappointment and anger and we certainly can empathize and relate to these understandable emotions.

You have every right to feel these things. You are shouldering the burden of your entire family as well as trying to hold onto your marriage, all mixed into H's ineffectiveness and sour moods. Don't ever feel that you've somehow exceeded your limit of whining and crying to us; that's what we're here for. In fact, the more you vent to us, the better you'll feel--like a pressure-release valve.

You made some very strong and lucid statements to your H and frankly ones that he needed to hear. You've even amazed yourself with your boldness and forthrightness. I say GO!

Remember, Used, that the recovery process is just that, a process, and it's laden with convolutions and setbacks--guaranteed. This afternoon was an obvious setback but it was a part of the process. Think linearly, a method line. If you realize that one forward for every two or three back is the norm, the standard procedure, your perspective then includes this afternoon as overall "forward movement." Difficult to see in that light, but perhaps necessary; it's all part of the puzzle.

"Right now I need someone to be the strong one for me and he has no idea how. Just once I want to be the one to breakdown, leave, get the chance to try something new without all the responsibilities of making a home and life for everyone else. No can do." -- Couldn't possibly have expressed these thoughts any better. I can tell just from these words alone that you have the strength to do this and do it right, that you can and will hang in there for your children, for yourself, and, yes, even for your H.

We're here to walk with you and to listen and "be strong" for you. Let us help. We remain here for you...

Ammon

BEWARE...NOT MB GUIDELINES

If he's telling you this type of crap!....I don't blame you even a little bit! Sorry, but I'm pretty hard nosed about this...so other then to say I'm in your corner...I'll shut my mouth!

Thanks for responding. Here it is another day and things have gone from bad to worse. H new way to torture me. Now he says he's going to drive his car into a bridge ubuttment. That way I get the insurance, so the kids and I are taken care of. I won't have to watch him flounder around trying to do a business that his heart isn't in because "she's" not part of it. And last but not least our kids won't know what a low life sob he is(my words, his were worse) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Well of course then he wants me to validate all this by telling him how happy I'll be when he's gone and that it's the right thing to do. To be honest at that moment I could have thrown him in front of a truck myself. But I told him that I wasn't giving him permission to give up. If he wanted that other relationship that much,go. But he knows in his heart if he walks out on his kids and they get a whiff of what he's been doing these last 2 years they will not forgive him.

I listened to this wallow for about an hour and said the kids are at school for the 1st time ever I am going back to bed. I'm not going to clean the kitchen, sweep or pick up after anyone. Just pull the covers over my head and have one day to morn the life I thought I had.

Woke up 2 hours later and guess what. No H, no car, and his cell phone and journal on the table. Now what? Do I think he'll do it? No, much to selfish and selfserving. But what if he does? Is he right? Will I secretly be relieved? I think we both need a shrink.

How have I let myself sink to this level in life. Maybe by trying to protect my children I didn't protect him enough. Where does my responsibility in this start and end. What do I do now? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

He is using and abusing you. He's really got a "pity me" party going on and he's inviting you to come play. Don't!

IF he continues to talk like this about suicide, inform him that you will have him committed! Most serious suicides do NOT talk in this manner (I know...I've been serious before)...however...sucide is a serious subject and one that can never be ignored. Someone who is so depressed as to consider ending their life...needs professional help. Rather they want it or not. jmho

HOWEVER...I tend to think he's just lashing out. Could be wrong...but, it does sound as if he is trying to get you to go along with his warped behavior. To begin walking on egg shells and not discussing his past bad deeds. Allowing him to continue his lament of losing this xOW! SICK! This is NOT healthy...not for you and not for him. JMHO

NO ONE is responsible for another taking their own life. NO ONE! It's the most selfish act a person can do. It is ALL about self! It takes into consideration...NO ONE else!

I do understand your wondering if you would have a sense of relief....as the drama in your marriage has been overwhelming. While this in no way means that you want your H to die, you sure would like to have the "old one" back and this new and definitly not improved "new one" gone. So don't beat yourself up over this.

Your responsiblity starts with you...and ends with you! You are NOT responsible for his actions, past, present, or future.

Please keep us updated...I'll be praying for you!

Thanks for advice. Well here it is after 2 in and he's been gone since sometime between 9 & 10. I don't know what to do. This is like some sick mind game to drive me crazy. I really can't deal with this.

Since he's been out I've gone thru all his stuff that I could lay my hand on and found out that he has been living with the OW during the week and coming home on the weekends to us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Can we say "GROSSED OUT" Could this be any closer to bigamy? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

My biggest problem right now is what to say if he's not here before school lets out. "Sorry kids, don't know where your father is, if he's coming back, or if he's dead or alive." I feel like I'm in a bizzare movie where everything shifts and moves until you don't know where you are or who you are. Maybe I should write one.

I can't believe I'm saying this but the hate and resentment is starting to outweigh the love. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Just to let you know the sob just walked in. Am ashamed to admit I punched him when he did.
Used

Sorry you've had to discover that his affair is on-going. At least...now you know. His "pity party" is all about misdirection and evasions. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU!

This isn't following MB guidelines...but I'd pack his bags for him and let him spend the week AND the weekends in the gutter!

He is tearing you apart! He's abusing you, his children, his marriage....time to go to plan B and/or a divorce lawyer. jmho

Hope you hit him twice...once for me! (Not really, as physical attacks are never good...but someone needs to hit him upside the head!)

Used --

Just checking in on you today and hoping that you're coping. Yesterday's sudden and severe downturn was a major setback for you and your family. I'm very sorry; I know it's not at all what should be happening or what you want. But it is in front of you and you have to deal with it.

Maybe Plan B (just a wifey's suggestion) is a wise direction for you, for the safety and emotional health of everyone. In a sense, it's trading one sort of pain for another, but you need some peace and stability in your life, as do your children, so that trade-off may be worth it.

I am so sorry to read that your "research" has revealed his double life. As painful as that revelation is, it's better to know than not to know, better to have the demons out in front where you can see them and deal with them. "The truth will out."

You said...My biggest problem right now is what to say if he's not here before school lets out. "Sorry kids, don't know where your father is, if he's coming back, or if he's dead or alive." -- What's wrong with that very open and honest approach? They certainly know and feel that things aren't right, probably know that Dad is making some very bad choices, certainly know that he's not around much and when he is, he's acting strangely and menacingly. I'd just lay it out there; not the details but the obvious situation of which they're already a part. Their emotional health is at risk here as well with possibilities for long-term adverse affects (as in their relationships). I'd level with them with just what you've stated above.

As difficult emotionally and logistically as Plan B is, he's got to bottom-out before there's any hope for any awakening for him. Maybe time away from the family would facilitate that condition; it often does. At the very least, it would alter the dynamic of your daily lives and restore some measure of calm and routine. Read the Plan B material here on this site and see what you think.

This is an incredibly hard time for you and your children. Can you do some counseling? We're here for you at anytime but someone with professional expertise in your backyard would provide you with guidance and direction of a more "expert" nature.

Please give us an update. We're with you...

Ammon

Well things here are really nuts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> H and I had long talk this morning and once again he has tried to explain his feelings for me and for ow and for our family. I do think in many ways we can make this work if we put our all into it.

I think you may have misunderstood one thing I said, He is not still living a double life. Moved himself out of there in the begining of Nov. Has been home full time since.

The really big problem is he gets into one of these funks and then I get angry and he gets nasty and so do I. I did let him know in no uncertain terms that I thought Fridays behavior was one big "Pity Party" as Wifey said and that next time he pulls a stunt like that he better really hit the abuttment.

I've decided not to go on this trip although he has asked me again. I've decided he has to show me that he can get thru this and make the right decisions on his own. Maybe the wrong move to most but I think the right one for me.

Up until friday we had been getting much closer, able to cuddle in bed and hold each other close and I think in some ways that is what is disturbing him because as we get closer ow naturally has to move into the backround. I think part of him is afraid to let that go and so he lashes out at me. I'll try to deal with it as best I can and if I can't, well we will have to see. I don't think I am quite ready to plan B. But I wont let this become out of hand. Pretty sure I can still handle it right now.

I intend to spend Sunday and Monday just lazing and hopefully not stewing about his movements. Maybe some long hot soaks in the hot tub and a funny movie or a good book will do the trick.

Check back with me sunday night or Monday morning and find out if I've become a basket case. If not I should know the fallout or lack of from the trip on Tuesday sometime. Either way I'll get thru, I always do. By the way my daughter's boyfriend just offered to take me to the range and teach me how to shoot a hand gun, Probably not a good idea <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

Thanks to all and I'll keep posting.

Used

Well it's Monday. I'm hanging in there. Before my H left we decided that he would contact the OW and tell her that he is home to stay and that we are trying to put our marriage back together. I know, I know, am I out of my mind? What if they end up in bed together? What if he relizes he can't live without her? Believe me all these things are going thru my head, but if he can't do this without those things happening, maybe knowing sooner rather than later is better. I truly don't think he would be able to end this if he didn't speak to her. So I'm going to trust in God and my h that he is a man ready to change and make a difference in his life.

I admit I am luckier than most that at least she is in another state, but H does travel there occasionally for business. Although on future trips I'll be joining him more often than not <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know this is not a typical Plan A, but I think everyone has to modify it to fit themselves and their lives.

I'm sure we will be heading for several of those real foggy, moody days, so fasten your seatbelts this might be a bumpy ride.

One thing I'm sure of, with the love and support on this MB, I'll be able to get thru it no matter which way it goes. I can't tell you how much your support and advise means to me, (even when I don't take it). So cross your fingers and say a little prayer for me tonight and I'll let you know how it turns out.

Used

Used --

Well, you certainly are far removed from the "basket case" status that was a possible outcome for you! And you have every right to be optimistic with H's decision to end it with OW.

I know you have reservations about the contact, but this is a good opportunity for you to step back and let him run with it. You and your marriage stand to gain a lot more than what you're risking with the visit (really very little). You're not out of your mind at all. If for some reason this turns sour, remember he would have made the contact anyhow. At least this way there's a significant shift in his motivation for it; he's now going for a whole different reason. Remember, you can't live your life around the "what if's." If this NC and recommitment was going to happen, it was in his hands all along.

As for the bumpy ride, we've fastened our seatbelts as we speak and are ready to ride along with you. You will hit bumps and detours and setbacks in the road. Just be prepared to ride them out and let the process continue. Ups and downs are normal, par for the course, to be expected. We're glad for the opportunity to be passengers.

I wish you well. You've got a good attitude and you deserve to have peace and happiness in your life and for your family. I can tell from your posts that you'll "be able to get thru it no matter which way it goes." Let's all hope that the way is up! We've got our fingers crossed along with yours. Keep us informed...

Ammon

After a long evening of waiting for H to get home,(nail biting etc.) he finally got here. First things first and we said goodnight to the kids and locked up and got ready for bed.

When I felt we were settled in I took the bull by the horns and asked the question, did they sleep together? He said of course not. He said it was a meeting to let us all know where we stand and that that is the past and we are starting a new chapter in our lives sort of thing. In some ways he seemed almost relieved. I guess living a double life is hard work. We had a good night and I am opptimistic about our future.

Will he never contact her again? I'll never really be sure but there are very few sure things in this world except the old death and taxes. I have a lot of hope and a lot of love for his life and mine. We have a great family and that's the most important thing right now.

Hope I feel this way tomorrow, next week, next year. I don't delude myself that this is a cakewalk. I know there will be many ups and downs but I know I'm ready. I'll keep reading and posting and I know that you are all here to help me thru the good and the bad. So which ever way this all comes down I'll be right here for support and hopefully to give some to someone else too.

Used