I have a rather unique marital problem that I need advice on. In late 2002, I discovered that my wife of 15 years had an affair with her parents family doctor. I discovered their affair by finding an email waiting to be printed on my home computer after being out of town the weekend before. She broke down and cried and told me she was very sorry, and it will never happen again. I've been in a state of shock ever since (and seeing a MC). My wife says she will never contact him again, except for medical reasons concerning her parents, but after discovering this website earlier in the week, I've told her that she should have absolutely no contact with him in the future. My wife is very close to her parents and has always taken both her mother and father to their doctors appointments, since she has worked in the medical profession and understands the medical lingo, which her brother and sister do not. (The downside of this is she gets very close to her parents doctors, and her parents current doctor, initiated the affair by making advances towards her). She has told her parents that she had an affair, but she doesn't want them to find out it was their doctor. She originally said she would take them to new doctors, but says now that would send a "red flag" to her parents, and they would figure out the affair was with him. I have given her two choices. Either have her parents keep him as a doctor, but don't take them anymore, or change doctors, and take them as she always has. I have just started reading this site and have started using some of its marital tips, although my wife says there was nothing wrong with me as a husband or with our marriage, but this was just something that happened that she can't explain. Any advice?

<small>[ January 27, 2003, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: MBBeliever ]</small>

hmmmm...that is different! Sorry that you've had to find a site like this, but you have found a very supportive and informative one. READ! Take from it what you feel will benefit your situation...keep the rest on the backburner if needed.

I agree that the best course is NC in any way. That's pretty standard if the WS wishes for the BS to began true healing.

HOWEVER...this is so unusual as it might have an adverse effect on her parent's health. OUCHIE! I am torn here, as I too was the main caretaker for my elderly mom and I was needed at her appointments. Has this doctor been their doctor long standing? IF so, was he your W's doctor at one time? If they, her parents, are not "wedded" to this doctor, I'd be truthful, tell them that this is the man she had an affair with and ask them to please consider finding a new family doctor where you and your W will feel more comfort in her continuing in her caretaker role.

Dealing with the elderly does have it's challenges, they often do not want to worry with changes unless there is no option. And can become quite attacted to a doctor who they trust.

However...he has broken not only your's and your W's trust, but her parents. jmho But, her parents are ill-informed.

IF...this doctor was also your W's doctor, I would consider filing a complaint against him. Even if not...as a doctor who is taking care of her parents and someone she HAD to depend on for vital information on their wellbeing...I still might report him as this is unprofessional behavior. jmho

Good Luck! Don't know if I helped or not...but I hope that whatever path you take...it's the right one for you, your W, your family, and your marriage.

I really appreciate your help, just a wifey 2002. The OM has never been my wife's doctor, but we would run into him occasionally at a bar that we frequent on Friday nights (my W's brother is part owner). The OM has been her parents doctor only since last September, when the previous doctor (a colleague of his) left town. My W's parents previous doctor also would frequent her brother's bar, and was the one that actually introduced my wife to him. At that time, my W was concerned with finding a new doctor for her parents, and the OM volunteered.

<small>[ January 27, 2003, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: MBBeliever ]</small>

MBB: One thing you said jumped out at me, because my wife said almost exactly the same thing: "...my wife says there was nothing wrong with me as a husband or with our marriage, but this was just something that happened..."

15 months later, I can say that in retrospect, there is a small kernal of truth to that statement, but it was mostly untrue. Do not read this as me saying that she is lying to you when she makes the statement, as she said, she can't explain it, just as my wife couldn't. Discovering the hows, whats and whys of the truth and untruth of that statement has been key to our recovery. The book "Surviving an Affair", by Harley, pointed us in the right direction about where to look, but it was taking the Emotional Needs Questionaire that really started the ball rolling. The Personal History Questionaire was helpful, too, and I would recommend the Love Buster Questionaire, as well. One of the most helpful things about SAA (and the Basic Concepts section of this site) is that it gave us a vision for what a great marriage should look like. My wife could say there was nothing wrong w/ me as a husband only becausee her expectations were so low. I was a great husband compared to her father, but that wasn't a very high standard. Anyway, based on your description, I am betting that filling out and discussing the questionaires will yield some surprises.

Some additional info on my situation, my wife's parents are in their 80's and have had many health problems. Her dad has a very bad heart, and her mother has high blood pressure. Whenever these doctors would come down to the bar on Friday nights, my wife would talk to them about her parents health, among other things. She calls them by their first names, and also does her share of flirting. Her parents previous doctor is so close to her parents that he has stopped at their house on off hours to check up and socialize with them. I also work at the same hospital as these doctors, but in another department. Like I said, I'm currently seeing a MC, and my wife is embarrassed about this whole situation and says she will be making an appointment with the same MC soon. I love my wife, she says she loves me, and it will never happen again. Are we taking the right approach to recovery?

<small>[ January 27, 2003, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: MBBeliever ]</small>

find a new doctor for the parents- there has got to be 100 reasons your W could give them without raising a flag that would even begin to lead them to suspect their daughter was having an A with their doctor...if she could keep the A a secret from YOU surely she can dig her way out of that doctors office......NO CONTACT means NO CONTACT- good luck, you came to the right place...MB!

Thanks everyone for your advice. One more question I have is; should I tell my W's parents that her affair was with their family doctor if she doesn't or doesn't want me to? Although he hasn't been their family doctor long, I know they like him as a doc. If they find out, I know their reaction will be to go to someone new. This could also cause another problem between us if she thinks I was the one the let her parents know. I also told her about this website, so she could possibly find out by this forum. What would you guys do?

To answer your last question first...NO. Do not tell her parents unless the two of you can agree on this...and then she should do the telling.

There is no long-standing attachment to this doctor...find a new one immediately, have their (the parents) records sent to the new doctor...and cut the other one completely out of your life.

While you may have issues with bro's bar if everyone hangs out there, you might want to take this OM/doc aside and tell him to find himself a new watering hole! Of course, that isn't legally binding...but it might get him to see that he has created a problem and needs to seek cover somewhere else.

Your W needs to keep her discussion of her parents health in a professional setting...not in a bar! She needs to realign her boundaries and set limits on what is and what is not acceptable behavior as your W, as a married woman, as the daughter of her parents.

I'd still report his @$$! But, then I am a hardnose....and the fact that a doctor in a position of power would involve himself in this is disgraceful. jmho

Thanks for your advice. The OM/doc has totally distanced himself from my wife (this was after I sent discriminating email copies to his wife), and doesn't come down to the bar anymore. According to my wife, he had affairs in the past and moved here because he and his wife wanted to get away from another situation. My wife has sent him emails since I found out about the affair, but he has not replied to any of them. After discovering this site on Monday, I've told her she can't have any contact with him whatsover, which she has agreed to. I am just starting plan A techniques and I believe she is going through withdrawal, as described by this site. So I shouldn't let her parents know secretly, even with his unethical practices?

<small>[ January 27, 2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: MBBeliever ]</small>

MBB...you and your W need to work on this together. Since the affair is over, IF you both can get the support you need from MC, IC, and each other, it's best not to involve third parties, even if family.

Telling her parents about this, especially if she asks you not to, would be your own betrayal. This you do NOT want to do.

IF the affair was on-going, that would be another matter, but you and your W need to work on your relationship, being honest and trustworthy on BOTH sides is of prime importance. You can't expect honesty if you don't give it. jmho And you both must show that you are worthy of the other's trust. (A much harder hurdle for her at this point, but one she can began to overcome by being honest, open, and truthful.)

Your marriage is between ONLY you and she. The less who know the better...if possible. Now saying all that...if you've got older children who may well put two and two together and come up with three, you may need to sit them down...together with W...and explain that there are problems, what your's and your W's goals are for recommiting to the marriage...you do NOT need to give them any details...details are private. But be as honest as possible. Even if children are younger, be sure to reassure them that mom and dad love them and each other. They will pick up on tension in the home. So this is very important.

Good Luck to you and your W as you travel your healing path together.

Well .... imagine this senario:

You do NOT tell your W's parents, and they continue to make appointments with Dr. Jeckyl/Mr. Hyde ..... and after awhile, by some unanticipated circumstances, the parents DO find out .... hence they come to realize they have been sharing the most intimate details of their personal lives with "the enemy".

Or .... the parents (either of them) becomes seriously ill, becomes hospitalized, and there has to be contact with Dr. Jeckyl to make important medical decisions ..... what then?

This leaves "the wolf" in a position of trust and opens vulnerabilities beyond your imagination.

Your wife feels "embarrased" .... well, ain't that a shame! If "embarrased" is the worst she experiences, she's damn fortunate.

The price she pays for her indescretion is her own embarrasment, and should not be passed on to leaving her parent's medical care in the hands of a sexual predator.

There!.... I've said my piece.

Pepper

wahoo! glad to hear you busted the doc with his own wife-thats the way to go. BUT! I would NEVER tell your WW parents....unless you seperate/divorce and then she'll have to hang with telling them anyway- telling aging parents just adds a dimension that as far as I have seen doesn't help anyone- they will be hurt hurt hurt and how could telling them help? just get rid of that doc and he sounds like bad business to begin with- his wife should join us here for some support.

I know a simple answer to this problem is for my wife's parents to switch doctors, but I have no control over that. Without telling them, they won't do it on their own. If I do tell them, I'm not being honest with my wife. Which is better/worse?

How long did the A last? Was it an EA, EA/PA or just a PA?

I would also suggest reading Torn Asunder by Dave Carder and Emotional Intelligence by Goleman (can't remember first name)...there is always a message to be processed from A's..you need to find this out as soon as possible if you want to jump start your recovery.

Why can't your W's OM (doc) find a reason to cancel her parents as patients..that would let you and W off the hook. Maybe he could say he's off loading some patients to doc...so and so..because his practice is getting to busy. Point is contact needs to stop...all forms of contact.

Keep your W talking be her friend...best ways you'll find out where her head was.

Did you state what kind of M you had pre A? What is your assessment of how you were meeting her needs and she yours, etc?

My FWH was definitely not type to have A, we've been happily M for 20 years..proves the Harley's point that under right circumstances no one is A proof!

Is your W reading and posting here? If not try to get her on board the education wagon. My FWH and I became teammates in the A recover...it's been invaluable.

Best Wishes!

I don't know if you could call it an affair, because it was just two nights in OM car after flirting at the bar. As for all these new abbreviations (EA,PA,FWH), I don't understand what most of them mean. Prior to this fling, our marriage has been very good (very few fights, and very few complaints from either of us). As for this doc canceling my wife's parents as patients, he hasn't done it so far so I would be surprised if he does. Do you think I should recommend this to him? Once again, I wouldn't be honest with my wife to go behind her back to arrange this, and she doesn't want her parents to switch docs. What do you guys suggest?

<small>[ January 27, 2003, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: MBBeliever ]</small>

Can you have your wife write him a letter explaining that it is very uncomfortable for her to bring her parents to his office and request that he drop them as patients (she can suggest and excuse or leave it up to him).

EA is Emotional Affair
PA is Physical Affair

How sure are you that there were only 2 isolated incidences all those months apart? Sounds very unusual from what I've learned. You need to review this site for signs of an A and see how many of those fit your wife. I would also do some snooping to make sure it was only twice and they didn't have an ongoing thing occuring. One (or in this case, 2 night stands) are usually easier to recover from then EA's (with or without sex).

All of my other advice about counseling and getting to the bottom of why she did what she did are important.

If you haven't read SAA (Surviving an A...owners of this site wrote it) then you probably aren't aware that people having an A get as good at lying as any other type of addict.

How do you know she's telling you the complete truth? Need to get to bottom of this before much more time goes by...otherwise you'll enter into what's known here as a "false recovery".

Best Wishes

Now that I know the abbrevations, it was both EA/PA. I found her 2002 daily planner, and she wrote down every day that they had contact. In one of her deleted emails (after the last PA) to him, she mentioned that they were just together twice, which she described in her daily planner. I also know it was a EA because of what she wrote in her daily planner. They only saw each other about 20 times total (her parents docs appointments, his haircuts, and about 4 times at the bar). After the first PA in the end of 2001, whenever he showed up at the bar, he would bring his nurse (for protection he said). They would talk about sex (among other things), but he would say we can't do it because we're married. But he would also tell my wife that she is too relationshippy, and must just be able to have sex on the side and enjoy that without a committment. Per her planner (diary), she noted in there that he made the first EA move (if given the opportunity, would you fxxx me?) and also the first PA move (he gave her a ride home and pulled the car over and kissed her). My wife has a religious upbringing, she has said she has never had an affair before (I believe this), and was surprised when he made the first move and would never have made the first move herself. She does though have an attraction for doctors! I have called her a doc groupy, because when she's in the presence of a good looking one, she's like a teenager meeting the Beatles (she denies this). As for getting her to write a letter to this doc requesting that he drop her parents, I don't think she will agree to this. Both her dad and mother like him as a person (they think he is really funny) and as a doc. Of course, if I told them he was the OM, they would drop him like a hot potato. So, I'm stuck in the middle. I can tell them and be dishonest with my wife, or I can do nothing and possibly leave this EA/PA open for the future. The only way I'm going to convince my wife (and therefore, her parents) to switch docs is if I can convince my wife that he might have alternative motives in making his medical decisions for her parents. If you guys have any other suggestions to support her parents doc switch, please let me know. I know this doc is a "manipulator" and I would hate to see her parents get attached to him like they did their former doctor, to the point where he visits them on his off hours. I really appreciate everyone's concern and help!

<small>[ January 28, 2003, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: MBBeliever ]</small>

Look, this is really simple. One of the conditions of recovery is No Contact. If he remains her parents' doctor they will continue to have contact. Therefore, her parents must find another doctor. WHATEVER she has to do to make this happen, she must do. Not you. It is her responsibility, if she really wants to work on your marriage. This is not a punishment, it is a natural consequence of her actions. If it were me, I would not remain married to her if she was unwilling to do this, because it would be plain evidence by actions, not words, that she was not willing to do what it takes to rebuild after what she has done.

What are the reasons that your W is so against her parents changing doctors?

She's told her parents she had an affair...right? So...why didn't she tell them with who? I can't imagine having the guts to tell my mom and dad that I'd had an affair and then not have the guts to tell them it was with someone they are building a very important trust relationship with.

I'd like a peek inside her mind. Would love to hear from her...if you can get her to post how she is feeling and why she is so resistent to letting her parents know the whole truth, not the short version....which leaves them exposed to finding out later at a time where it might really cause damage.

They are only now beginning to build a patient/doctor relationship with this new doctor, they do not have a lot invested here...but that will change as time goes on, only making it more difficult in the future on everyone if they discover the truth.

Your W has the options...tell her parents who the OM was and let them choose if they wish to continue in his care or not. (Which is their right to choose with full knowledge of what has happened!) OR...she can continue to lie to her parents and figure out a way to change their doctor...I would think this would be difficult, but not impossible. OR...she can continue letting her parents go to this doctor, continue having contact with him, continue to put that relationship before her marriage. Up to her!!!

Still agree...NC is the way to go. IF she isn't willing to do what is necessary to have NC with this man....you're NOT going to heal, she's not going to reclaim the trust she has thrown away, and the two of you are NOT going to successful rebuild your marriage and your lives together. jmho

Again, I really appreciate all your helpful advice! In answer to your question, why is my wife so against changing doctors, she says it's because they just recently went through a change and they have already developed a trusting relationship with the OM. I agree that NC is the way to go, but doesn't this decision need to be mutual, especially with her parents health being at stake?