</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2boysmom:
<strong>I need to rephrase the counselor thing. He DOES NOT want me to call it quits. He feels as long as we are under the same roof, we have better chance of working things out. He totally believes in the book divorce busters, and he's reading Harley's books now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It was ME who wanted to call it quits. Who felt like I was just letting my WS have and eat the cake! My counselor just walked me through all the steps so I could see what he was seeing.. There IS NO REASON TO CALL IT QUITS NOW! He just wanted me to come to the conclusion myself.. not spoon feed me an answer!

Sorry if I was confusing there!! Have an awesome vacation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whew!!! Well, now I can go have fun today and not worry about THAT!

Glad to hear that he's reading the Harley books. I know there is a new wind blowing through the therapy industry and that one by one the model of how to help marriages is changing. Slowly, but still changing. I'm glad you were fortunate enough to find a good one!

You're very welcome. None of the people I help either here or as clients ever gets too far from my thoughts. I'm often grabbing for something to make a quick note on when I'm out so I can remember to tell someone or another something when I get back! (and NO, I am NOT obsessive.... why do you ask?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

How far are you in SAA?

C

Not a fun day. We had a pretty good weekend. I could see no signs of seeing OW.. I know he signed onto computer few times for a just a couple minutes, checking, then signed off.. Made me think maybe the OW broke it off. He helped around the house(first time in months).. Dishes, laundry, with the kids, etc.. Overall a pretty good weekend.. then last night- he signed on to messenger at 10:23 p.m.(right after I went to bed) and on until midnight... My heart is breaking.. I am so tired of being alone in bed, even if he's there- he's the ice man, but worse when talking to the OW.. I hate feeling like the 3rd wheel in my own marriage.. My heart is just breaking today... How can someone you love so much, just act like they don't even care what this is doing to you. "Oh well, I'm rubbing the OW in my BS face and killing her slowly. Oh well..." <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ March 04, 2003, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: 2boysmom ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2boysmom:
<strong>Not a fun day. We had a pretty good weekend. I could see no signs of seeing OW.. I know he signed onto computer few times for a just a couple minutes, checking, then signed off.. Made me think maybe the OW broke it off. He helped around the house(first time in months).. Dishes, laundry, with the kids, etc.. Overall a pretty good weekend.. then last night- he signed on to messenger at 10:23 p.m.(right after I went to bed) and on until midnight... My heart is breaking.. I am so tired of being alone in bed, even if he's there- he's the ice man, but worse when talking to the OW.. I hate feeling like the 3rd wheel in my own marriage.. My heart is just breaking today... How can someone you love so much, just act like they don't even care what this is doing to you. "Oh well, I'm rubbing the OW in my BS face and killing her slowly. Oh well..." <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is why it's so important not to stay in Plan A too long. Because the day will come when you have been hurt so much that you hate him and all you'll want is to get away and never see him again.

He will become more and more like a stranger, and you will lose any remaining respect you still have for the man you married.

It's an addicition, just like drugs, alcohol, gambling or any other addiction. And you need to treat it the same way.

How far are you in SAA? Remember you can email me any time you like.

C

Need some more understanding--handholding-- friend?? Something here. I'm pretty much through the book .. I understand plan A is not forever.. But last night just threw me right back into a tail spin. I was doing so good, following plan A.. And right now I just want to slug him the minute he comes home from work! I can't believe it's been 6 months, and the only thing he's done is gone from 2 PA's, to EA's! No regard at all for what this is doing to the family.

Will I just know when it's time to move on? I look at my boys and cry... Last night we were all playing Candyland together, having a great time.. WS goes from playing candyland, to talking to another woman in another hour. Does he not see what is wrong with this picture!!! It's sick, disgusting, and WRONG! But he says he's not hurting the kids. Somehow in that twisted affair warped brain of his, he thinks since he played Candyland-- he's a great dad.. It erases that he's stabbing a knife through this wife, their mom, and breaking this family into pieces.. Somehow he just forgets that!

O.k., sorry-- just really needed to vent.. I need a job.. Applied to a couple more today. I really need more than watching kids to keep my mind off what he's doing all day and night long. And the anger that goes with "Oh, just quit your career good money making job- let me (WS)the one who's having PA all over the USA support you".. Ooops, you quit your job and found out about the PA's! Hmmmm, BTW- I don't love you-- maybe you shouldn't of quit your job.."

Click click Click-- I wish I was back in Kansas....

Back to the job thing.. Hard to do plan B with no job since he was going to support me- ya know.. Yes, I'm angry about this. Give up my 17 year, very good paying, full pension, 5 weeks vacation, could support me and the boys job-- to let him be the "man" of the family-- found out about the affairs 3 weeks later after my last day worked. So, until I find a job- I can't do plan B.. He has me bent backwards. I will get child support($800/mo).. maybe about $100 a month for alimony.. No more.. Because I showed I can make good money, we have equal retirment plans, etc.. The problem is-- there are no jobs even close to what I was making around here. Extreme high unemployment where I live.. but my kids need grandparents, etc.. close by if we go through with divorce.. Their lives are going to be broke up so much as it is...

breathe breathe breathe.. One day, one step, one moment at a time.. Thank you Cerri.. Thank you for listening. Sometimes you just really need a friend...

Well, I think I now know who the 3rd wheel of this marriage is. It's all making sense now. Several months ago a friend(I'll call her "B") at my husbands work was furious at another girl(I'll call her "C")who works same place. Friend "B" told my WS that he gave too much attention to "C" at an outing, and then she lambbasted "C" saying WS is married- leave him the hell alone. I missed the whole thing.. I was at this function, and I didn't see anything- but obviously "B" did.. I blew it off at the time. "C is married also- but I know a bad marriage".

Anyway, my WS all of a sudden started taking kids swimming lessons. I thought a tad odd since WS doesn't like water very well, but I blew it off. Yes, "C" and her child in same class...so is another guy from work, and son..

2 weeks ago, my WS out of town on biz, so I took kids swimming. "C" said- hard when husband out of town, huh.. I said yes.. She goes- I know, my husband been out of town for a few days too. Hmmmm, My WS disappeared for 5 hours right before leaving town... And "C" husband was gone out of town too....

Last night, WS says him and the 2 other swimming parents from his work all went to icecream afterwards.. Didn't think alot about it until this morning. My son is telling me that only "my family" and "C" went to icecream. No one else. The other dad from work didn't go.. Flat out lie on my WS side. I called him on the carpet about it. He goes, no... ****(son's name) is just mistaken.. All of us went.. Then changed subject real fast. Well, I questioned my 4 year old -- he was even counting how many people sitting at the table as he's into counting. My WS is flat out lying..

Of course he'll deny. Already is.. Do I do anything now? I have no hard evidence, I know he will lie.. Where do I go from here?

How well do you know "B?" Can you call her and tell her your suspicions and ask for whatever she knows suspects?

Also, now that you know who it is.... and I'm sure you're right.... you can watch for her phone number on his cell phone.

What's up with the job thing? Are you looking for something? What about going back to where you were, is that an option?

C

Job thing- My company was taken over by hostile takeover.. I was offered a job 40 miles away, but took the 13 month severence, 18 months insurance paid, etc... #1, my position now filled. #2) If I went back- I would have to pay them back in cash all of the severence! Which has been invested etc.... So, I am painfully looking for a job.(If I knew my WS was a WS, I would of taken the 40 mile away job!!!!)

#2) Cell phone- he erases every call that comes in and goes out immediately. He also keeps his cell phone and wallet locked in his pick up.. I have snuck out in the middle of the night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> but-- never found out anything... The only thing I can think to do is download snoop stuff onto computer. I really have to think about it. If he found out- we would never be together. Period. Also, do I really want to read what he's saying to her. I don't think I'm ready yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

#3) I don't know if I can trust this other person.. She's kinda gossipy, and I really think her current marriage started as an in-office affair.. I'm 99.9% sure of that!!!! I think that's probably why she picking up on the signs.. she's done it all herself. My gut says.. don't trust her... She really does like me- we've always gotten along- and I think it's the only reason she's protecting me so far- but.. I dont know how long it would hold water.

Ugh, being a BS really sucks, ya know!!

Ok, so you can't go back to that company or to that position. But there must be people there that can help you in searching for a job now.

C'mon..... this is what women do really well. We make connections and we call in favors. Surely there must be connections that you have both in the company and with the people you used to work with professionally who can help you out now.

Also, do I really want to read what he's saying to her. I don't think I'm ready yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You will never be ready to read those things. But if we need something concrete in order to confront ( and that is an "if" you know) then that would be somewhere to look. I'd have to say though, that locking the cell phone and the wallet in the truck, and erasing every call detail as it occurs is enough for me to convict!!

I don't know if I can trust this other person.. She's kinda gossipy, and I really think her current marriage started as an in-office affair..

Ok, so we don't want to spill our guts to her. But if she likes you, as you think she does, then cultivate that, and gently, subtly tell her about your concerns. And mention that "boy if there is something going on with my H (don't even hint that you think it might be office related.... keep it very general) I sure would want someone to tell me."

Ugh, being a BS really sucks, ya know!!

Yep, I do.

C

I've been keeping up w/ your post, silently supporting you. I'm confident you probably already realize most of what I'm about to write but feel it bares repeating. You come across as a genuine, bright, intelligent, warm, loving person who is devoted to her children. It is more than obvious your husband is absurdly blind ,selfish,and mean-spirited. Personally, I find it deplorable that he is using your son as a conduit to this other woman. The way it reads, your husband is essentially at your sons swimming lessons for his own selfish needs. And, children are very astute about reading an adults true intentions. I would bet your son knows something is amiss. If it were myself, I would casually be attending every swimming lesson from now on OR make it a habit to just appear w/out him having prior knowledge that you are going to show up. I would be calm, collected, engaging, and extremely poised (think "Plan A- I'm The Best D*mn Wife" Persona x 100)around your husband at the swim lessons.

And, I feel your gut is speaking volumes to you about the other woman who may be privy to information regarding your husband. Keep your eyes and ears open. Do not trust her. Do not confide in her. Do not ask her questions. Be pleasantly distant and I guarantee the information will come to you.

Keep on the course you have been. Continue the job search and IC. Plan A for *YOU*, to better yourself. Most of all, take care of your mind and body so you are able to be there for your children. Marital discord and stress can wreck havoc on your health. If you have some extra money, spend it on yourself (new outfit, new makeup, spa day, yoga class, other relaxing outlets). And, if you have a confidante (mother, best friend, sister, brother etc.) lean on them for help w/ the kids when you are going through rough spots. Also, keep posting what you are feeling, if anything to release the pent up negativity or ambivalence.

I just wanted to convey to you someone else other than Cerri is listening (albeit silently) and rooting for things to improve for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

LaReine- Thank you!!

As far as swimming goes. The 2 year old has to be in pool with adult.. I refuse swimsuit! The just turned 4 year old in class by himself.. I was going to all swimclasses.. The just turned 2 year old FREAKED when he saw me on the side of the pool.. Would scream entire class- so not realizing- I told my WS let me stay home, you take the kids(me a break!) so I can do my exercise workouts without a child hanging on me.. Duh.. Played right into his arms eh!

As far as job Cerri- I am networking. 7.99% unemployment in my county.. and since my company hostile takeover- lots of us women lost our jobs.. Just tough. Going to take time.. I'm applying my heart out.. We have people with Master degrees applying for 25K year jobs it's so bad out there.. I just got 26 week unemployment extension.

When I knew about just the PA's, I told him in no uncertain words he is not to have sex with anyone else while we are married and living together. Period.. Or the kids would be gone from his life forever. I didn't even know about EA's.. I kept feeling something was amiss- but I didn't think sexual. So I couldn't put a finger on it. Not until came to this website did I learn about EA's.. DUH.. I really am stupid about these things. There are no divorces anywhere in my family.. No "sneaking around" none of this.. No hiding money, no nothing.. so I'm not use to playing the game..
Anyway, the next conversation will be.. You are NOT to have any kind of affairs. EA, PA's.. or turn your back on the family and to another.. Obviously I need to be more percise in my speaking. Duh.

Thank you for lurking!! Nice to know I'm not just beating my head on a wall. Somedays feels like it. 2 boys, no job and a husband who is turning to others.
I do take the boys still to daycare now and then for just "me" time.. With unemployment- we can afford it.. So I do get just "me" time.. When I wasn't-- I was so angry and taking it out on the kids. This stress is unbelievable. I've lost family members before(sister car wreck, young nephew hit by car.. etc.. )-- never knew an affair could hurt so bad.. Wow.. I have a whole new understanding I wish I didn't have to know.. But- I'm here, and one way or another-- I will coe out on top. I always do, always have, and I will again. Dr. Phil was excellent yesterday. Gave me some "umph" : ) THANK YOU AGAIN! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ March 07, 2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: 2boysmom ]</small>

Well, we had a IM conversation. I was forthcoming- told him my gut was saying he was having an EA, and it was with "c". Of course he denied.. but I feel better just letting him know that "I know!".. The conversation went no-where as he was not willing to say What his needs are, Where are we going from here, etc.. He just spins in circles.. But I told him I need him to be 100% honest, and to turn to me, not away from me for his needs. I want him to fulfill my needs. etc.. I honestly feel I have nothing to lose at this point. So why should I be "hiding" my true feelings. No, not be a b**** which I could be if I thought about what he's putting me through, but very calm- great plan A, but honest about how I feel, need, wants, etc.. I'm tired of walking on eggshells..

I was very honest, very up front.. and even though I got no response, I know I got his brain a going, and I needed to do it for me.. I just talked to him on the phone about other things- he was very nice.. not mad about the conversation. This is a start. In the past any IM conversation where I brought up his infidelities always ended in a fight..

One day, one breath, one minute at a time.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ March 07, 2003, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: 2boysmom ]</small>

Yes, it's good to let him know what you know. In a way that is straightforward, courteous, and gentle. It's also good to be honest about what you need in the M.... but remember, you cannot demand anything. And at this time, Plan A, you need to be doing all you can to show that you are the best alternative he has.

Remember you need to look like this... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> for the most part. Now if you are talking about a specific incident that hurts you it's ok to look like this... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

So do you have a strong focused Plan A with specific activities on a time schedule? Time to do that!! I'm around this weekend if you want to work on it.... well Sat. am anyway. I'll check in here.

C

So do you have a strong focused Plan A with specific activities on a time schedule? Time to do that!! I'm around this weekend if you want to work on it.... well Sat. am anyway. I'll check in here.

I need help with this specific activities on a time schedule. Oh please do help! Oh, you would of been proud Cerri. I was very "mature" and not preaching in my IM conversation. Everytime he tried to turn it into a b*888 session, I didn't bite. I stayed focused and positive but very point blank.

THANKS!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2boysmom:

I need help with this specific activities on a time schedule. Oh please do help! Oh, you would of been proud Cerri. I was very "mature" and not preaching in my IM conversation. Everytime he tried to turn it into a b*888 session, I didn't bite. I stayed focused and positive but very point blank.

THANKS</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good morning!!!

I am always proud of how hard people work on the little steps that feel so overwhelming. Good job on the honesty and NOT letting it get ugly. It's a good indicator to me that we can still work on Plan A. If your LBnk was draining rapidly you would be hard pressed not to take the bait and blast him! Nice work!!

Ok, then. Specifics.... any idea what his most important emotional needs are? List them and put a * by the ones you think he will let you meet.

Heres the full list so you don't have to dig for it:

Sexual fulfillment
Affection
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openess
Admiration
Domestic Support
Financial Support
Attractive Spouse
Family Comittment

Then, more difficult but maybe even more important, what are your LBers.... what are the things he complained about in the M pre-affair?

Broad categories: demands, disrespect, anger, annoying habits, independent behavior, dishonesty

I'll be here til about 11am CT today, and most likely checking in tomorrow.

(Hi, I'm Cerri and I'm an MBaholic..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

C

Hey there... you ok? Haven't heard from you in a couple days.

C

Just a quick hello. Last Wed pulled muscles in back very VERY bad.. Pain shots, pain pills and muscle relaxants.. Wow- think I'd be happy! But i can only sit here for a minute-- just starts spazing again.. Wanted to say I'm here--I'm on "plan A".. still want to go over things with you one at a time.. but first.. need to be able to sit for a few minutes!! Yes, WS has been helping a ton with kids, dinner, laundry etc...

I'll be back soon!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sending you lots of love and healing, if you want it!

I'll be here when you're ready.

C

I'm back!! Thank you for waiting Cerri. Finally- can sit for awhile. Geesh. O.k. - where we are today:

I think it's breaking off with the OW. No IM, no missing time, he's been more involved with the family routine, but still very defensive with just "me". Still no "love" at all, just the cordial roomate.

To your last email :
Ok, then. Specifics.... any idea what his most important emotional needs are? List them and put a * by the ones you think he will let you meet.

Heres the full list so you don't have to dig for it:Sexual fulfillment
Affection
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openess
Admiration
Domestic Support
Financial Support
Attractive Spouse
Family Comittment

Then, more difficult but maybe even more important, what are your LBers.... what are the things he complained about in the M pre-affair?

Broad categories: demands, disrespect, anger, annoying habits, independent behavior, dishonesty

******************ok- my list**********

Sexual fulfillment
Affection
Conversation*?w/ difficulty
Recreational Companionship *
Honesty and Openess *
Admiration *w/ difficulty
Domestic Support *
Financial Support * He wants me to work/but not..
Attractive Spouse *
Family Comittment *
*******************
Broad categories: demands, disrespect, anger, annoying habits, independent behavior, dishonesty
******
**independent behavior , he keeps saying I didn't **validate him and I try to get exactly what he means, but I still don't understand. annoying habits and disrespect I don't know where would fit here, but validation and time spent on him in sexual relations and "pampering" him. I'm very independent.

Well, need to go take care of a couple little ones. I'll check back tomorrow : ) THANK YOU CERRI!!!!!

Hey darlin' glad to hear you're feeling better. I was out last week and I'm working my little fingers to the bone to catch up. I'll do my best to get here tomorrow, but I haven't forgotten ya. I kept checking to see if you were back!

C