On Wed, 12 my W moved in with her Parents, saying she needed space and time to think about things. I asked if there was someone else, and she said No.

On Thur, 13 my W opened her own checking account and took half the money from our joint account and put into it. Then gave me the joint account checkbook.

Today, my Mother-In-Law came to see me. Told me that on Sun, 16 my W confessed to her that she had been talking to someone at her office, but it had gone no farther than talking.

The following day, Mon 17, My W came to our apartment to pick up some more of her clothes. She didn't go back to her parents that day. Instead, she moved out of their house and moved in with the OM. Her parents havn't seen her since. She's called them a time or 2 over the week.

My mother-in-law was heartbroken all week and couldn't think of how to tell me until she finally came over today and we both sat on the couch crying for 3 hours.

Before today, I felt like I was responsible for making her leave. I blamed myself.

Now that I KNOW there is a OM, I only hold the two of them responsible, and am very angry at her for making me put the blame on myself like this...

What do I do from here? I canceled our joint credit cards today, and plan to cancel out the joint check account tomorrow, opening one in my name only to keep her from the rest of my finances.

She may not know that I know. Should I confront her? Every time I've tried to talk to her the past 2 weeks about it, she keeps telling me she needs more time to think things through before talking about our problems. How well can she think them through if she's spent the past week in the bed of another man??

My life feels totally shattered right now. My heart ground to dust.. my soul empty.. Up until my mother-in-law told me about the OM today, I actually had hope my W would call soon and we'd begin talking.... Now I feel like there's no hope left.

Hang in there brother for I have been where you are at this moment and I'm here to tell you that YOU WILL survive.

IF you want to save your marriage then read the Harley books 'Surviving An Affair' 'His Needs Her Needs' and 'Love Busters'. If you have the dough, counsel with Steve or Jennifer Harley.

You are not alone, we are here to help you thru this most darkest time in your life.

Thanks Coffeeman

I did read 'His Needs/Her Needs' the weekend my W moved out.. And I gave the book to her the Monday she came over to get more of her clothes...

I'm still battling with deciding if I should confront her today. Part of me says to ignore her until she comes to me, but another part wants to ask her why.

I never knew this much pain was possible for one person to have. Everything just hurts now.

JohnnyB...to answer your question on if you should or should not confront her...I always tend to believe that the sooner the affair is out in the light, the better. She's already confessed to her mom, she's got to expect that since you and her mom are so close that you might know already, or that you will know soon.

If neither of you confront the "face of the affair" then neither of you are being honest. Not much in a relationship until the truth arrives. You're both just spinning your wheels, skating around the real issues, and trying to ignore "the elephant in the corner of the room"...and that elephant will continue to grow until you don't have any room left.

I'm not even saying to start asking a lot of questions especially that "why?" question, as it's the hardest one to get any type of answer to, but you do need to let her know that you know where she is living and with whom (who?). Just dragging the fact of the affair out of the closet and acknowledging that this is part of the problem and one that can not be lied about any longer is in my very humble opinion the only way to began reclaiming your marriage and taking back your power to make informed decisions about where you want your life to go.

Get "Survivng an Affair", by Harley, and read everything here about Plan A and Plan B, starting with What Are Plan A and Plan B?

You are right, you are not responsible for her affair, but you are just as responsible as she is for the state of your marriage pre-affair.

Is the OM her boss? If so, you should consult a lawyer about possible legal action against him and the company where they work. I do not suggest you actually sue him or the company, but FILING a suit will drop a bomb in their laps which may blow their affair apart.

It is impossible to save a marriage with only one participant, but there ARE things you can do. So...

1.) Learn. Read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity Then buy and read “Surviving an Affair”, by Willard Harley, (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). (This is obviously a problem for you right now, because there is virtually no chance that she would fill these out for you while living w/ the OM, so just keep that tucked away for when the affair ends.) SAA, (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them.

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. It is best to read it together, so you might want to wait until the affair is over and you can do that, but it is valuable enough to go through it by yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

I called her today and let her know that "I know".. I asked her if we could talk about it, face to face, and she said she'd call this evening to let me know.

She said she would talk to me today (either on the phone or hopefully in person) And then would be by the apartment in a few days to get the rest of her belongings.

She seems convinced that the marriage has been over for a while now, and wants me to accept it. When I tell her "I Still Love You" she responds with "Dont love me, it will only make you hurt more".

How can I show her our marriage is worth a second try? We had one fight in september about children that really hurt her, and now she says that our marriage ended with that fight. She says she's just sorry to have waited this long before separating.

I feel like i'm drowning with nothing to cling to. She won't even give me the chance to talk about our marriage or any hope of recovery.

No, the OM is not her boss. She's in the accounting department, and he's a salesman (about 6-8 years older than her with a divorce under his belt, I believe)

As of the day she moved out of our apartment, she insists all they have done is talk. But she hasn't said if that's still true now that she's living with him.

Yes, I am a person of faith. I've spoken with my pastor on this issue, and he has me in his prayers. I so despirately want to seek marriage counseling, but she will not even agree to talk to me about it. Anytime counseling is mentioned, she completly rejects the idea.

All of this because I wanted to wait another 3 months before we tried to have a baby. We fought about when we were going to start trying, and she says I hurt her heart during the fight. Now she doesn't think she can ever trust me with her feelings again.

I hurt so much that I'm sick to my stomach. Nothing makes sense in my life right now. Her reasons for leaving don't make sense. I feel like my whole life has just been ripped apart and is currently burning to the ground around me.

JohnnyB,
As a betrayed husband I know what you're going through. Listen to CoffeeMan.

Just keep these things in mind:
Whatever crazy or insulting things your WW says, -it's just the "fog" she's in right now. She is going to say things to make it easy FOR HER to justify her actions by getting you to yell or name-call. She will talk and act like a different person. She will not make sense some times.

Key for you: Do NOT give in to it.

Also realize very realistically that things may not work out. So regardless of how things look, try your best to take care of yourself and your home. Let her see (not by your words so much) but by your actions how you are strong.

Do this for yourself and NOT because you think it will get her to come back. Because sometimes the WS just doesn't come back no matter what (that happened to me). Like me, you may ultimately decide that you don't want her back.

I know it hurts like hell right now. But it does get better. And believe it or not, you are in control of how things proceed from here. The WW always thinks that she is 'making the decision' but understand that it's yours to make as well. Don't let the opportunity pass to tell her so when she says 'I don't want to hurt you' because she obviously has.

And keep this to yourself: Affairs don't last. They don't blossom into deep relationships.

JohnnyB:

I know it doesn't sound reassuring right now, but you've already done the one thing that will save YOU, and possibly your M. And that is you found this website. You will come out of this a much stronger person and better H to someone (maybe even your W) at the end of the process. If you've been reading HNHN, you know what you have to do.

I'm about 13 months out of D-day. It's still hard for me, bu the one thing I have learned is that whenever I feel like I can't go on any longer, I go on longer... and I get stronger. You will too.

This A appears to have just gotten started. It will need to burn itself out, and making it public knowledge (with the people in your and your W's lives that need to know, that is) will do the most "damage" to their fantasy life, which will eventually cause the A to burn out. Other than outing it, I don't think you should do anything else to try to force an end to it. You want your W to end it because she wants to, not because she was coerced.

In the meantime, you've got a lot of work to do. Definitely see a counselor even if your W won't go with you. Also, keep posting here for feedback.

And when you can, could you give us a little more background on your M? On you? If you try to step outside yourself and look at your M objectively as possible, is there anything about YOU that you think might have contributed to your W's dissatisfaction with the M?

all my best,
-Qfwfq

The quick of it.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=008366

That was last week... so as you can see, now that the OM has been confirmed, I feel a bit differently towards it.

I called her @ work today to give her some phone messages that built up over the weekend. Then I asked where she's been staying. She replied with 'A friend'.. I asked if it was the other guy, and she said 'It is a guy, yes'.. so I asked his name directly.. She was shocked that I knew so much.

Then she let me know that all they have done so far is talk and go out. Their first date was on valentines day. And yes, she is still living with him.

But both of us being at work, we couldn't really talk too deeply, so she finally agreed to call me tonite.. So here I am, sitting by the phone yet again waiting to hear from her.

I got the latest cell phone bill today. From the looks of it, 5 minutes after she walked out the door on the way to her parents house, she called the OM. And she directly denies that he has anything to do with her leaving. Right now, it all sounds like a bunch of lies to me..

My brother was here for the past 3 hours.. He's been through 2 divorces, so he had a pretty straightforward outlook on it. From what he can see, he figures there's no hope. And I can't see much hope either. When the W said she'd call to talk about things, she also said she'd be by the apartment in a few days to pick up the rest of her stuff. It looks like she's making her move into the OM's house more permanant.

She shows absolutly no interest in trying again or even giving the marriage a chance. I know that I can't make her want me again, and if she doesn't even want to try, I'm left with no hope, am I?

<small>[ February 24, 2003, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: JohnnyB ]</small>

JohnnyB,

Of course she has no interest, she is in the middle of an affair and the affair has probably been going on for a few months at least. She is lying now and you know it, so why would you believe what she says about the marriage or you.

The point! When an affair starts you get nothing but lies and rewritten history. Please read about plan A. It is about you, you evaluating yourself, and making changes. It is about you stopping any lovebusters and arguements (samething).

Give this some time. She probably expects you to throw in the towel and that will justifiy her behavior, but if you hang in there she will be shocked. Please do the reading here. Your brother of course thinks there is no hope because he wasn't very successful.

There are tools here that can help you regain, rebuild, and have a better marriage or handle the end of your marriage and make your next much more likely to succeed.

The point is if you don't stop and learn from this experience, the chances are high that your next marriage will fail as well. So do the work. Learn, and don't give up. This is just starting and 90% of success is simply showing up for work every day. That means in your case hanging in there every day.

You can do this, and you will know when it is really time to bail. You aren't even close yet.

God Bless,

JL

She finally called. It's the first real 'talk' we've had since the day she moved out.

She didn't really say anything to give me much hope, but I do feel better now that I've had the chance to let her know how I feel. I've told her that I know I did things wrong, and that we were both equally responsible for things falling apart. More than anythign, I know that if we both honestly try, then we would be able to make things better than they have ever been.

She said that looking back on the relationship, all she can see are the past 6 months, and nothing about that time frame would make her want to come back. I pointed out that there's been 6 years there to look at, not just 6 months, and there have been a LOT of good times in those 6 years to remember.

She said she cannot try our marriage again right now. I asked her what if I waited and gave her some time, and she responded with a 'I don't know'.. I made it clear that I am not going to give up on our marriage, and that I still love her as strongly as ever. And if waiting is what it takes, that's what I would do.

So that's the hope I have now. I had a sense of peace come over me while talking to her that I've not had since this all began. She didn't really respond all that positivly, but I feel more hopeful now than I ever have. I feel like God is doing his work and it's out of my hands now. All that's left for me to do now is to take my life one day at a time, wait, and see if she comes around. I opened up the door and extended my hand towards her, now I only hope she'll take my hand and give our marriage another try eventually.

I do plan on picking up Harley's 'Surviving the Affair'. I finished reading 'His Needs/Her Needs' before my W came over for clothes last week, and she actually saw the book on the counter, asked about it, and took it with her. I'm hoping she'll eventually begin searching her own soul and give the book a chance.

I thank every one of you for your advice and your prayers. Lord knows I can use them right now. Right now, it looks like the ball is in my W's court...

JohnnyB:

I remember reading your other thread now. A tough situation, but not all that atypical. You love busted some, she did too (probably to justify her behavior, which had probably started around the time you were first confused by her reactions to your behavior).

Yes, she has a ball in her court, but so do you. I really like JL's post. Short, to the point, but with all the major tasks you have ahead of yourself clearly outlined.

I suppose the "good news" is that this A is so typical of many out there that are really good grist for the MB mill. Meaning, this method is geared exactly for this kind of A. You've got a lot of reason to hope based on that alone. By hope, though, I mean you will come out of this a better person. You may restore your M, but even if you don't, you need to do this work and the outcome will be that you'll be a changed man. For the better.

I do wish you all the best,
-Qfwfq

I picked up Harley's "Surviving An Affair" last night and began reading it. I can't get over how similar my own situation sounds to all these others I keep reading about. That does give me some hope.

Right now, I'm truly worried about my MIL. She's fully siding with me, and that's causing her and my WW to argue endlessly. My In-laws are angry and shocked that their daughter could go so against her morals and upbringing to do something like this. They're having a very hard time accepting the fact that she's living with a stranger while her husband sits at home hoping she'll come back, wanting to try and fix this marriage.

My WW called my MIL last night, after which my MIL called me in tears. We talked for an hour, as I tried to share with her what I've learned so far about the 'fog' affairs cause, and how my WW is suffering from a cross-wired brain, not in control of her senses, and currently doesn't care who she hurts, as long as it keeps her A alive. By the end of our call, I actually had her in a better mood than she's been in for the past week. (She even commented that I'm really picking up on this counseling stuff and should seriously consider changing my profession)

We both love my WW, and only want to see her come back to her senses. I know that it's important for my WW and MIL to get onto speaking terms again, but it seems that's not going to happen for a while. My MIL is a VERY religous person, and is completly heartbroken over this situation. I dare say she feels as betrayed as I do right now.

But her and I finally agreed that we need to take it one day at a time and keep praying for the strength to get through it. My WW told my MIL that she would call again today (the MIL made it VERY clear she would NOT call a stranger's house looking for her). Now, me and my MIL are talking about what we should do now. It's becoming harder and harder to hide the A and Separation from the rest of the family. Aunts, cousins, and neighbors are all asking where my WW is, and so far we're running out of excuses.

Should we expose my WW's A to the light of day? We both really think that would cause a whole pile of problems if my WW ever decides to give our marriage a try. The looks of accusation and distrust from family and friends (both our familys are very religious), the guilt of knowing that people know...

I know these thoughts could help end the A, but will it also wreck the hopes of rebuilding our Marriage afterwards?

It's becoming increasingly difficult to hide the A from my WW's family.. 2 of her Aunts have call the apartment in the past 2 days looking for her.

No one outside of her parents, my parents, a couple of very close friends of mine, and my brother & sister in law know it from me. Who knows who she's told (although she did make a comment to my MIL that she doesn't think anyone @ the office suspects).
I'm torn between breaking down and telling anyone who asks where she REALLY is, or trying to save face and give my usual vauge responses..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Should we expose my WW's A to the light of day? We both really think that would cause a whole pile of problems if my WW ever decides to give our marriage a try. The looks of accusation and distrust from family and friends (both our familys are very religious), the guilt of knowing that people know...

I know these thoughts could help end the A, but will it also wreck the hopes of rebuilding our Marriage afterwards?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah it is a risky proposition but the argument could be made that if your WW beleives that what she is doing is right, then she shouldn't object to the truth being told to family and friends.

This is no time to be concerned about her sensibilities considering she has betrayed not only you but her parents as well. A little ostracizing by her family and friends, may put a well deserved bad stench on her fantasy life with her OM. The last thing a fantasy like an A needs is the light of day where everybody that knows her, knows what she is doing.

She's a big girl and she should know that when you do the crime, you do the time.

As far as wrecking the hopes of marital recovery is concerned, they already are wrecked (for now) since she has not ended her A with OM. So until she ends her A, tells the OM she wants no more contact with him, and committs herself to a plan of marital recovery that incorporates the MB principles, there is no marital recovery on the horizon. I'm sorry for being the bearer of bad news, but the reality of the situation can not be denied.

You may want to consider going into plan B, if the pain is too much for you to endure and your love for her is starting to die faster and faster.

johnnyb--
hi. I am so sorry for your pain. This is a hard thing to deal with . ANd Impossible to "get over". But you can get through it. You have gotten wonderful advice from wonderfully smart people.

As to whether to tell or not to tell.
This is only an oppinion, but... maybe you should not air all the details. This will be a major LB. She probably feels a bit ganged up on because you and MIL are "together" on this. Her Mom has sided against her.
maybe you can just say that the two of you are having marrital problems and leave it at that. It truely is no ones business anyway.
I never told my family about my WH affair. It was hard, let mr tell you. He moved out for a while and it was harder still. We have children, and I was afraid they would say something about Daddy being "out of town". Which is what we told them. (they were 4&5)
I missed family birthdays, because I couldn't go alone. My parents live 2 miles from us. THIS WAS HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here we are over a year later with our first real chance at recovery. I'm glad I did not tell. As hard as it was. Im glad no one knows.

i just wanted to give you my story. Something to think about. Talk to your wife. What does she want to do?? Can you get her to agree to move out of HIS house and in with a female friend???? That would help.

I'm praying for you!!
tsc

Johnnyb

I hope WAT will jump in here with his knowledge about how to deal with "outing" the A.

I think it NEEDS to be done. It needs to be done because you need the fantasy bubble to be burst BEFORE there's any chance that your WW will ever come to her senses. Now, you have said that some of your and her family know. But I would think that her coworkers should know as well, considering the workplace is a big bubble where they can continue their R within the fantasy - until the bubble bursts. It's hard to know what the reaction will be at work. Some places actually seem to "thrive" on such scandals, but most decent people will frown. The upshot of all this is that the fantasy needs to be obliterated, and the sooner the better. It will then take time - months at least - for REAL LIFE to "set in" so that the A loses its "charm" and burns out.

I vote: TELL, whenever asked certainly, and maybe offer the news to her coworkers via a phone call or email.

Get others' opinions before you act, though.
&hearts,
-Qfwfq

John...BEFORE you open up that kettle of fish which may make rebuilding down the road a lot harder...I'd bring it up to W next time we talked. Tell her that questions are beginning...and you are uncomfortable with having to try and find excuses as to where she is, who she is living with...etc. What does she want you to do when her friends/family calls looking for her?

Now she may want you to continue to cover up for her...if so, make it clear that this is not an option you are willing to follow. You don't want her to feel uncomfortable around everyone who knows and loves her, but you do not want to lie. Should you pass on her phone number, so that she can tell them herself? Should you tell them that any questions they have, they will have to ask her...as she is the one who's no longer in the home.

If nothing else...this puts the ball back in her court. She'll either have to agree to be honest herself with friends/family or she'll have to agree that you shouldn't have to lie for her any longer. (Yes, if she talks to them, they will hear ONLY her side of the story...but they likely aren't very dumb and will be able to put 2 + 2 together and come to the right answer.)

The reason I would go this route instead of just "spilling the beans"...is this keeps her from being cut off from all emotioanal support except OM, in case family and friends come on like gangbusters. She already knows that they won't "understand"...she's likely frighten to some extent already...this ups the anite somewhat, yet it also keeps it from blowing up in her face (and yours)...unless she chooses that path.

Be sure to encourage her mom to be somewhat supportive of her daughter. She doesn't have to approve of her actions, but as you said, she loves her. Her parents need to make sure they are still available for her to turn to, you do NOT want her to have that OM be the only one she thinks she can depend on while her confusion lasts.

Good Luck!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Be sure to encourage her mom to be somewhat supportive of her daughter. She doesn't have to approve of her actions, but as you said, she loves her. Her parents need to make sure they are still available for her to turn to, you do NOT want her to have that OM be the only one she thinks she can depend on while her confusion lasts.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I beg to differ with this statement because if OM becomes her sole emotional support, the pressure will then fall squarely and entirely on OM's shoulders. This won't be fun at all for him since he will have a woman who will be extremely emotionally needy hanging on to him. He may conclude that the A is not worth it and dump her like a hot potato.

Bummer, sad story. Simular to my story but my WW ended her gay little affair when i found out.

A small note to you, think very hard about how things will be if/when the A is over and if you get back toghether. Can you live with knowing what your wife has done. Right now your only thinking of your needing/wanting her back soooo bad that nothing matters, IT will matter to you later. Be sure you can deal with the betrayal, lies and the trailer park/jerry springer show marriage you are so wanting to save.

The more people you tell about her A, the more people you will be ashamed around. I wish i would have never told a soul.

When/If you get your wife back things can be real REALLY nice, but somtimes things will be Very VERY hard. Heaven and Hell at the same time, numb.