Not much to update. Things are fine in general. If you did not know my situation and saw us together, you would think we had a good sound marriage.

One of the things we were afraid of was that you would loose so much love for him that you would want to walk away - after school was over and you got a better job.


Yesterday was my birthday. At first I was bummed because I thought WH did not remember, I changed my hours and worked during the day so I could have the evening home. WH came home and had some roses for me, and said get dressed, we are going out for dinner for your birthday. I was very impressed that he remembered and bought me flowers.

One of your complaints was that he did not remember things like this. And by the way, happy birthday - How many years? I think I know, but probalby I ought to keep quiet about things like this. I do know you are younger than I am by about 5 years.

I've been very preoccupied with my own thoughts. Most of them center around thinking that my marriage is doomed, once a cheat always a cheat, how can I ever trust him again, if ever. Does he love me, did he ever love me and many more thoughts along these lines.

We know - why do you think we worry. The bottom line is that you don't know for sure - you still don't know. When you don't know, you pretend it will work, and you act like it will work, and you put your heart into it. That's what I expect from you.

How can you ever trust him again?
You don't know that you can yet. Recovery is finding those things out. He still has to do withdrawl, and only then can he get his head on straight and do it right. You get him through that first, and then you worry about trust. Now, if you KNOW you want to leave, you can leave, but if you don't know - well, it's not over until you know you want out.

I do pretend all is okay.

Oh Shoot, No, No, No. Please don't pretend everything is OK. It is NOT OK - he is the one that has to prove things are OK, and you need to hold him to that.

Just pretend you want your M to work, not that things are OK. Pretend you want your M to work with all your heart.

It was pretending that "things are OK" that prolonged this mess up to this current date. Hold his feet to the fire - until you knonw.

Does he love me, did he ever love me and many more thoughts along these lines.............................. I know, what he did for my birthday should be an indication that I must matter to him

Once you told us things he did early on that showed he loved you. I think the evidence is strong that he did love you. And, the birthday effort shows he cares for you now. Does he love you? Well, it looks like he wants you - and if the two of you will follow the four rules for a sucessful marriage, he will love you for a long time.

Does he have faults
HECK YES!!!

Has he done things wrong?
HECK YES !!!

Does he need to repent and change?
HECK YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can he do it?
That depends, and lots of it depends on how much you want to stay.

Remember, you can LEAVE ANY TIME YOU WANT.
You can - you really can.

However - YOUNG LADY - as long as you stay, I want to see major effort, and I want to see it done right.

I hope you had a happy birthday, and I hope next years is lots happier.

SS

I'm one of the friends you didn't even know you had Sue.

I lurk here daily. And I look everyday for updates from you. I've noticed how little you post anymore. Its like after you confronted him (sort of) you stopped coming here.

Now you need this more than ever. Don't shut yourself away from your support group.

And I'd really like to be of help to you. I live in the same area as you....(I'm a hockey mom too).
I'd love to meet you in person, if you need someone to really TALK to.

((HUGS))

Hi Lexxy and everyone,

I don't have much to post right now. WH is behaving like the model hubby. No e-mails that I know of between them in a while. (Unless they/he created a new e-mail address, if so, I will find it out, just have not had time to do so)

He is home more than usual, but he does have some unexplained times away. Which he now calls me and tells me where he is. (The question here, is, is he being truthful?)

Wedding was supposed to be last Saturday. I think he missed it. We were up north of the TC about 40 miles. He was occupied all day and I know a couple of the people that he was with, if he would have even attempted to call her and they overheard, 1- I would have been told and he knows it 2- She (my friend) would have told him off in front of everyone). She is not afraid to speak her mind. One of the things I love about her. He had very little alone time that day.

Lexxxy - e-mail me at momofthree55118@yahoo.com

I'd love to meet you. I think it would be great.

I know I don't update as often as before. Sorry if it worries you all. As I said before, not much to update.

Today, I'm rather calm and peaceful. Not too concerned about my marriage. I don't know if that is because I don't care or if it is because I know that no matter what I will be okay, or if I feel that all will work out. I just know that today, I am calm about it.

I also check on you often
I also don't post much now that things
have calmed down and we seem to be alot
better now.

Also Happy birthday mine was a couple
of days before you.

I was wondering also if your H is simliar
to mine.
My H has been great last couple of mts

And he will have really good days
And be just wonderful
Can't help but wonder what is going on with
him sometimes.Even asked if he was on drugs

I hope you the best and know you will make it
tru we all will.
Just takes time (((TIME)))
And that's the hard part

Hope you are calm today too !

All the best - all the time.

SS

Used - Happy Birthday to you too. Isn't March a wonderful month for Birthdays. Not too cold, not too hot.

March is a wonderful month for b-days
I have two wonderful grandsons born in this month and one on your b-day Sue <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But me.............I think October babies are the best <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ginger - October is a good month too, my oldest is an October baby.

Well I bet he must be just about the sweetest thing on earth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

We had two granddaughters born in March - about two weeks ago in fact. I have a son who has a March b-day, and my brother also (but he never was very sweet.)

Our family has b-days in every month but Oct, and Jan. Maybe I should have worked on the Valentine cards a little more......or was it the flowers? Wrong kind of candy.............no, wait..........maybe it was no hot tub in the motel room. Ah sucks, I should probably just not worry about it.

Good to hear from both your girls, hope today is good.

SS

SS
Now you are really missing out on something if you dont have an October baby in your life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Look how lucky my family is they
have ME <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> LOL

Congrats on the new little ones.

And today.......its just so so for me.What about you Sue??

SS - congrats

Today was good up until I went home.

I'm tired of walking on eggshells. I cannot have a bad day and vent. Normal people vent. I have to be sweet and nice and lovable 24/7. If I'm not, I am a negative you know what.

He is not worth it. Then again, before I married him, I was sweet and lovable

Why do you have be nice, sweet or lovable? Why not just be honest instead of "venting" and express your feelings without negativity. Your only choices are NOT niceness or negativity, there IS another choice.

It does not matter what tone I use. If I express displeasure in anything, I am negative and complaining, which is why he justifies the A.

Sometimes I think they deserve each other. She can find out just how wonderful he is. She can work 2-3 jobs supporting him during the layoffs.

Wow Sue, that's an eye opener. She lives at home, right? She has no idea what it's really like being with your H.

She used to. She either rents or bought a townhome. I think she bought it. I think she bought it about a year ago. That is a guess based upon when I did a search on the white pages and found a listing for her.


WH, as far as around the house, he has been better. He helps more. But, it is frustrating for me, that I cannot express myself honestly without him accusing me of being negative.

Heya, Sue! I'm glad you're still chugging along. I think of you often and hope you're well.

Still Seeking, the thought of you with two new babies to play with is a truly marvelous one. Congratulations!

Yesterday I was going good. Today, not so good. Mostly, I'm doing too much thinking/questioning

Does he love me?

Did he ever love me?

Is OW more important to him than I am?
Does her feelings matter more to him than mine do?

After I confronted him, he said he did not want a divorce. So, if he does not want a divorce, why was he engaged to marry her? You cannot get married if you are already married.

He said he married me because he did not want someone else raising his kids. Is that the only reason why he married me?

He said he does not want to be a weekend father?
Is that why he married me?

He said we could try to make it work, because he does not want his kids coming from a broken home. He said he remebers what it was like and does not want that for his kids.
Is that why he married me?

I love my children so much. Can I stay in a marriage where he does not love me and is only in it because of the kids? I dont' know. It hurts too much to think that he does not love me.

Twelve years ago, he told me he loved me, and told me often. Now, I hardly hear it, and he is usually drunk when he says it. (He hardly gets drunk)

As I think back, the very first time he proposed, I came home from work, on the table was a vase with Roses and a card that said "I Love You, Marry Me" WH. We were living together then, he was in school during the daytime, came home, ate dinner then went to work. He was usually gone by the time I got home from work.

That was the happiest day of my life back then. I felt like I was on cloud nine. A couple of weeks later, he got cold feet. Was worried he was proposing because I was pregnant. Shortly after that, he came home and said he picked out an engagement ring for me. He put in on layaway. He said when he gave it to me, he wanted to know it was paid for. He showed me the layaway receipt. It was a nice solitaire engagement ring. We decided to get married after he graduated school. Six months after S#1 was born, I'm pregnant with S#2. We were still planning on getting married, he was to graduate that spring. We decided that we would marry after the second one was born, and when his brother could be his best man. Six months after s#2 is born, he meets OW. We are fighting about it. I'm tired because of working and trying to take care of two babies with little help from him. WH's brother comes home on leave, and we don't get married. WH did not even want to discuss it. One month later he moves out. Six months later, I get my own apartment. He starts to get worried that I am moving on with my life, which I was. Making comments about someone else raising his kids. (I recall telling him, "that is how it usually works when two people split up and their is children involved.) He starts coming over more, taking me out. His mom is happy that we are seeing each other again. About a year later, I was pregnant again, miscarried this time.) WH was in an accident, on disability, so my CS was decreased. I could no longer afford my apartment, so I moved back to WH's mom's duplex. Put most of my stuff into storage. About a year after that, he wants to get married the next month. By this time, I was thinking about ending the relationship. I saw it going nowhwere. No declarations of love for me, so I figured there was no future for us together. I never told him what I was thinking. So, when he suggested marriage, I knew it was not because he thought he was losing me, so I figured he wanted to get married and loved me. It never dawned on me that he never said "I love you" or anything like that to express his feeling for me.

Where was the OW during this time? I thought it was over. I even wondered, maybe he was telling me the truth the whole time and that there never was anything between them.

We married, at this point, I did not have any suspicions that anything was going on. He was home all the time. We found a house and moved in about 5 months later. It was shortly after that, I noticed that he was coming home from downtown. I thought, why is he downtown. He usually bought "bath and body works". I started wondering did she work there? I knew she worked retail. I told myself, "don't react when you have no proof", except, there was a mall near where he was working and they have a "bath and body works" He did not need to go downtown to buy it. (I'm pregnant with D).

After D was born, about 6-7 months later, he says the union announced there was OT and a higher payscale in Detroit. He wanted to go work it for about 3 months. I was not happy about it, but he wanted to do it. So, I agreed. I partly agreed because I figured if I was right in my suspicions, hopefully this would put an end to it. And if I was wrong, no harm done because I never accused him wrongly.

Three months go by, and he is not making plans to come home. He said he would be able to send enough money home so we could make some of the improvments the house needed. He was not sending enough home, said he did not have it. I take a second job. Almost had the phone shut off, heat shut off. Nine months later he comes home.

He gets a cell phone, starts playing computer games alot. I had to practically beg him to let me use the computer for school. I bought the computer because of school.

He is hiding the cell phone bill. I am more suspicios now than ever. Not sure what to do. Did not sneak the bill and look at it. I should have.

About a year later is when I finally had the nerve to take the bill out of the mail and open it. I did not recognize most of the numbers. He called her maybe 4 times a month. I was not alarmed by this.

Started taking the bills at random. Saw the calls increased. Got my own cell phone, same company so I could figure out how his phone worked and how to access the bills online.

Started getting more nosey into stuff. Bought spyware. At first hardly any e-mails, then they increased, most of the e-mails were joke stuff. It was not until the last year or more when the e-mails started showing a relationship. By this time I had also installed Spyware on the computer, so I knew for sure.

Sometime in the last year, my friend and former neighbor told me that her family frequently saw him at a pay phone. This occured before he went to Detroit. I recall a couple of times, she asked if our phone was working, and if not, we can come and use there if we need to.

So, as I peice it together, I see this has been going my whole marriage.

So, is there a marriage here? Is it marriage in name only?

Has my marriage been a six year lie?

<small>[ April 06, 2004, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]</small>

Sue
Maybe today is the day for thinking.
I believe when we are in a situation like this we all begin to question what is real and what is not.
I can look over my life also and put a lot of questions in different places but realize it will not make a difference today.

Has my H cheated before?? I always suspected but never had proof.Does it matter today??

I think that you, like me have come to a cross road and are feeling there are things we want out of life and out of our marriage and from our H's but may have to face the fact they may never be able to fullfill those needs.

I understand why you question but I do not think he would have married only for the kids.I do not understand why people cheat,I do not understand why they do not take the time to think of the end result before they jump in but I do understand that most men do not marry just to marry.

You can not change who he is,I can not change who my H is they have to do this themselves.
But you and I my friend can change who we are.We can stand strong and be the best Sue and Ginger that we can be.Sometimes they do not see what is right under thier nose.

Sue no matter what, know that you are much more than she will ever be,you are a wonderful,smart,funny,sweet,beautiful woman and the only one that will loose in all of this is your H.I can only pray he wakes up before it is to late.

Hi Sue,

All that you have related is in the past. It is true, but we can't judge what will happen by those things. You made a decision to stay - you wanted to finish school and get a better job, and that makes perfect sense. Your LB has been in the negative for quite some time. Until it is up, it will be hard for you to have really positive feelings about your marriage.

I have seen you say words to the effect that he:

1. Is paying more attention to you.
2. Stays home more
3. Says he does not want a D.
4. Does more as far as gifts, and meeting your needs.

I know he still has problems. My W's husband still has problems too - in fact, I believe it will take him (my W's husband) many years to overcome his years of bad habbits. Sure he may do better for a time, but years of LBing habbits are not changed overnight, so I am sure it will take some time.

Your H just got the word - and is just now beginning recovery. You have been working on it so long you are sick of it.

Since there is no way to change your H over night into the perfect man, you may have to just go slow and encourage him.

If you have not done so, I encourage you to call Penny and have her help you set up the rules whereby you may recover your M. If you have to, both of you go see her or ask her to come see you. It will be well worth the money.

Please don't live in limbo - you deserve better. Both of you need to be working on the same set of rules - and if you don't get them in place, you really don't have recovery - you just have more waiting and wondering.

I think Star was right about being able to tell him what you think. You can do it with care and respect, but recovery needs open dialoge.

That's why I suggest you call Penny - to set up the rules and help HIM understand them and agree and accept them. YOU know, but HE does not - and you struggle with how to change years of doing things in ways that are comfortable for your H. Sometimes we need to get out of our comfort zone to make things better - and it's time for HIM to do that.

I have seen you write posts where you wonder about him, and I have seen you write posts where you recalled how he must have loved you because of the good, kind, loving things he did.

I don't think your marriage was a lie, but I do think it needs work (as does mine, and everyone else's that I know.) Now is the time to proceed, and it won't happen if he stays in the same rut he has been in.

CHANGE !

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
SS

<small>[ April 07, 2004, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>