Star,

What you and others read as depression is more of thoughtfulness, questioning, evaluating my life, where it is going, what I want, what I should do to change it. It is all part of a growth process, before you can grow you have to do alot of deep internal processing, or at least I do. That is where I am at right now. Change takes time. Maybe I am not very good at communicating, and most seem to read some of my threads as I did not intend it.

Depressed, not even close to it. Yes, before, when I first came here, I was sad, who wouldn't be. Even having bouts of depression. Mostly I am very happy, what brings me sadness is when I think of the hurt my children might experience if I am not careful in my handling of this situation.

I just received a new lead on a new job that I will look into.

I'd say more, but I have to get the kids moving for school.

Star, I don't have a problem with you posting or anyone else for that matter. Just keep in mind, my timeline is not others timelines, and somethings I cannot do at all, such as Plan B, it does not exist for me. He leaves, even at my request, I file for divorce. He left once before, and I let him come back. He leaves again, it is for good, I won't let him come back. I am his second marraige, his first marriage, they split up many times before they divorced, I will not have that in my marriage, he leaves, he leaves for good, and that is my final decision on that subject.

sue,

What you and others read as depression is more of thoughtfulness, questioning, evaluating my life, where it is going, what I want, what I should do to change it. It is all part of a growth process, before you can grow you have to do alot of deep internal processing, or at least I do. That is where I am at right now. Change takes time. Maybe I am not very good at communicating, and most seem to read some of my threads as I did not intend it.

I think this is very possible. Certainly in this quasi-world of two dimensional communication it is easy to misinterpret intent, feelings etc. Please remember that it goes both ways chere. I promise you, that my intent, as well as yours may have been misunderstood. I count myself as one of the people who truly care about what happens to you.

Knowledge comes from exploration and introspection. Wisdom comes from applying knowledge. Wisdom is the a catalyst for change....and I agree that you are doing your best to reach that point in your life where you can apply what you have leaned in your own personal way....and in your own time.

Depressed, not even close to it. Yes, before, when I first came here, I was sad, who wouldn't be. Even having bouts of depression. Mostly I am very happy, what brings me sadness is when I think of the hurt my children might experience if I am not careful in my handling of this situation.

Neither one of us has the benefit of "seeing" or "hearing" each other....so all of the tone, nuances, body language etc. are missing from our converstations. It is very easy under those circumstances to fall short of grasping intent and meaning.

I just received a new lead on a new job that I will look into.

This is great news.

Star, I don't have a problem with you posting or anyone else for that matter. Just keep in mind, my timeline is not others timelines,

Sue, I appreciate that, but I am going to stay away out of respect and caring for you....you posted to me so I didn't want to just ignore it...but I also want you to feel really safe coming here.

I feel better to know that you describe yourself as mostly happy now....especially if I have missed that in your posts. Whether that is because of the nature of this form of communication, or your style of writing, or my own misunderstanding....I just don't know...perhaps all of it.

As far as timelines....there is a point even given variation in style/personalities where certain strategies become counter productive. Plan A is one of those....so that's what I was trying to communicate to you. It creates a poor environment for growth in a marriage when continued beyond it's purpose because it is done without expectations or reciprocity. It becomes lonely. So it can become very burdensome and often depressing after a while as well as create destructive patterns where one spouse does all the giving and the other, the taking.

and somethings I cannot do at all, such as Plan B, it does not exist for me. He leaves, even at my request, I file for divorce. He left once before, and I let him come back. He leaves again, it is for good, I won't let him come back. I am his second marraige, his first marriage, they split up many times before they divorced, I will not have that in my marriage, he leaves, he leaves for good, and that is my final decision on that subject.

Let me just throw something out there....since Plan A is really a progressive strategy...meaning that it is only ONE part of a whole process that should not be done as if it is a complete strategy....then perhaps it is the wrong strategy for you. (And really....you probably aren't in Plan A anyway right? Which would make going to B silly in the first place) Ideally, Plan A will lead to real marriage building...or in some cases, Plan B. What I mean is....since it is meant to be temporary in order to end an affair/neglect/abuse or to smooth the withdrawal process....it becomes enabling when done for long periods of time. Even if your timeline is different chere...and that's fine....even for you will become a lonely process unless it achieves it's goal...of ending the affair and encouraging real marital growth (protection, time, caring, honesty).

Since you don't believe in Plan B...as some folks don't (that is not unique...I've seen many folks who feel that way) you are in a sense, stuck in a Plan A (or something similar) that has no where to go. It was never meant to function in this way or for this length of time....and so it has passed it's usefulness. That does NOT make your only option Plan B...one that you have no intention of using. There are other strategies that are more empowering and perhaps healthier for you than simply staying in what appears to be barely keeping your head above water.

MB is not the only structure out there and it is not best for everyone. There is no one size fits all...I honestly believe that. You may be trying to use a process that is not well suited to your personality or goals. Applying it in a different way, to try and make it suit you...may only make it ineffective. And since a whole part of the process (Plan B) is not an option for you....maybe it's the wrong process.

How about considering Michelle Weiner Davis's strategies? Or Shirley Glass? There's nothing wrong with looking at something that may work better for you. I'm certainly NOT trying to LOCK you into Plan B. If you want MB to work, it must be used the way it was intended....but if it can't be used that way....that's okay...but as opposed to just trying to adapt it....which may not work...look for something else. When I say "don't drop anchor here" that's what I mean.

If you ever want my input....you can post to me or email me....I will be very happy to offer you any help I can. starfish4729@hotmail.com I will keep you always in my prayers and I wish all the happiness in the world to you.

(((((((((((((Sue))))))))))))))))))))

Well, here is a surprise, he actually said "I love you" and he was not drinking.

Knock me over with a feather.

Gotta get the kids up

Oh, I have an interview on Friday and one of the jobs I applied for internally called, I have to call back

Well now this sounds like progress!!!


Good luck with the interview,if they are smart they will hire you,after all we know what a great nurse you are <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Ginger,
A lot of what Star said applies to you too.

On the outside we look fine.Inside I feel dead.
My D says you can see the misery on my face.


That is not what we want for you - and it's not what you want for you. I am not sure what you have tried so far - this is easy to say, hard to do......but - it may be time to do something different.

I know people who have lived like that for years, but it is not good for your health or happiness. I don't have the answers, I don't know a sure fix, but aren't there still things you can try?

SS

Sue,
It IS hard to know exaxtly how people are doing by the little bit we post. I misjudged seahorse once because she seemed happy when really she was near hitting bottom.

It looks like you have sort of been trying to get your feelings back for him. If I read correctly what you have said, your giver is not doing nearly as much work now - and you are watching to see how he does before you open up your heart again.

That would fit with the feelings you describe of wanting to stay some times, and wanting to leave other times.

I think Star does a good job of explaining how many of us feel when she relates her own feelings. We worry - but it's becasuse we care.
I was really afraid that you would be so tired after school was over that you wouldn't be able to recover - I have said similar things before.

So, I am happy for small things that point to him wanting to stay. Remember that recovering acholics with the best of intentions sometimes fall off the wagon, even the ones that fully recover. Look for the good in him, I think you will find it.


Good luck on the job -
I don't know what you need the most right now for YOU, but I hope you find that also.

SS

<small>[ May 25, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

SS
Did I tell you that I finally told my oldest D about the A??

Well I did and she told my son so that has helped ME alot.

What have I tried...........I would say right after dday I went right into a plan A without really knowing it.H at that time was still involved with OW so he did not respond 100% to me, after months of this and getting nothing back I found myself not doing as much for him.

Today he is probably worse than before the A and he blames me for this.This behavoir gets me angry and then I will try so hard to keep quiet but I always end up saying something after a few days and then it ends in a fight.

Today was his day off,he made a comment about women all being the same during a movie we were watching so that opened the door for me to say something and then we started to argue and he took off.

I guess I just would not care so much but this is the same M he said he hated,the reason for the A.

We do talk about seperation,for me I think if we seperate it will be the end of our M and I get so angry that I threw away 27yrs of my life.
A part of me feels like he wants me gone so he does not have to face the problem head on this is always his answer to everything,send the problem away.
And there is the part that feels he wants out but does not want to look like the bad guy so if I leave he can tell everyone that I left him.
To this day he has not told anyone about his A.

I know I need to let go,but because there has been no change I have a big fear of this happening all over again.Right now I dont know what to do.I just hate the thought of giving in to him one more time its always been that way,I give into him he does little to nothing different.

<small>[ May 25, 2004, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: gingersnap ]</small>

Hi Ginger, I have some more thoughts, I may as well type them out.

Today he is probably worse than before the A and he blames me for this. This behavoir gets me angry and then I will try so hard to keep quiet but I always end up saying something after a few days and then it ends in a fight.

It is not an LB to state your concerns in a respectful manner. It is hard to learn how to ALWAYS do it respectfully. How do you feel you do with that part of it?


Today was his day off,he made a comment about women all being the same during a movie we were watching so that opened the door for me to say something and then we started to argue and he took off.

So, are you saying someting like: "I feel hurt and unloved when you say things like that." Or, do you do it some other way.?


I guess I just would not care so much but this is the same M he said he hated,the reason for the A.


So, you want really badly to break the cycle, and you don't want to leave. I know it would be hard to come up with the money, but have you considered calling Penny for coaching? You need a starting place. I understand star*fish will be doing some coaching soon too - at least think about it.

We do talk about seperation,for me I think if we seperate it will be the end of our M and I get so angry that I threw away 27yrs of my life.
A part of me feels like he wants me gone so he does not have to face the problem head on this is always his answer to everything,send the problem away.
And there is the part that feels he wants out but does not want to look like the bad guy so if I leave he can tell everyone that I left him.
To this day he has not told anyone about his A.

You don't "throw away" your life if you do all you can. Please don't look at it that way. You learn, you grow, and you improve YOU. Perhaps it will work, perhaps it will not, but you can't do any better than your best - no one can. Just make sure you think it through and use up all your options first. Really, you can't change him, but you can spend time becomming the best Ginger possible.

I know I need to let go,but because there has been no change I have a big fear of this happening all over again. Right now I dont know what to do. I just hate the thought of giving in to him one more time its always been that way,I give into him he does little to nothing different.

A coach could help set boundries. You need some protection against loosing too much love to continue. I don't think it matters how good and kind you are, everyone has limits.

I keep wishing and hoping all the WS's out there will understand what it is that they have done, but some will not understand in this life. I don't know what your H will do, but I continue to hope he will understand and help. If not, you will do well - I really believe that. Never give up on yourself - you have the heart of a winner.

SS

<small>[ May 26, 2004, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Sue, are you getting any rest this weekend, or will you be working?

SS

Thank you SS for all your comments.

At this point it is probably 50/50 with LB's.I try to talk calmly but when I get no response from him I do get angry,all I want is for him to be honest answer my questions and talk about his feelings about all of this.I want him to open up to me and let me know how he feels about our life our future and what he is able to do to change or what he is not able to do.

As for the movie,it was silly really the lady in the movie said to her H how he never talks to her about things,how he does not take into concern anyone but himself and that is when my H said "All women are the same" it upset me because I could see that she was not nagging her H just wanting to comunicate.Believe it or not the one thing my H said he liked so much about the OW was that he could talk to her.I understand that it is easier to talk to other people sometimes with no fear of thier reaction but to be able to open up to her and be totally shut down with me is hard for me to understand and handle.

My H will not go to MC I have asked,I bought books to try and help us thinking this would be a little easier for him he promised to read them but never did.I told him all the tools we needed to help us,to get past the A,and to build a healthier, happier ,stronger M were in these books and he chose to try and sweep it all under the rug thinking that it would just disapear.
I told him this morning that I do understand him wanting to forget it ever happened because of how he felt but what he did not understand is that he is dealing with that and I am dealing with a very deep pain that will not go away just by acting like it never happened.

My D asked me yesterday why I stay........I could not answer her,I dont know why I stay.

The internal applications fell through. Seniority beat me out. Oh well, I knew it was a possibility.

I did interview today. I thought it went very well. I think they will offer me the position. I will find out on Tuesday. She said she has to work the numbers, but she thinks she can beat what I am currently making. I don't know what benefits are like with this company. So, I will find out everything later. Fingers crossed for a job offer.

I dont know where the fingers crossed icon is so here is a big{{{{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}and smile in hopes that you get the job,you deserve it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I can only stay a minute of two - but I will be back after the weekend to comment some more on what you said, Ginger, and to tease Sue some more. I don't think I have done that enough lately. Sue, here's to you getting that job - and then some.

See you gals later.

SS

Have a great weekend SS!!!

I have to work Sat and Sun <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
But I have Mon,Tues,Wed off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hey Sue,
People are thinking about you. You don't have to respond, but smile when you read this. OK?

SS

Yeah Ginger, I am back to work, and you still have another day off. Lucky you. Don't waste it. Tie up your H while he is sleeping tonight, and don't untie him until he agrees to meet your needs. Think that would work? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Well, you know him best.

SS

LOL
I think the only need that would meet for me is he would be off the computer for a while until he got his hands untied. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The thing for me is this.........I had learned to settle for our life,I was not real happy......ok I was not happy at all but I accepted our relationship and how he was.What his A showed me is what HE is capable of.He IS capable of taking time,talking,being romantic and NOT being selfish if he chooses.I have pointed this out to him and all he does is walk away.
I told him all I really want is what he gave her.
TIME,CONVERSATION,and UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.

But you can't demand those things from someone.

You have to ELICIT them.

Cecily

Telling someone what you want or need is not demanding, it is communicating.

I could not see Ginger being demanding. She is just too sweet.

Oh Ginger, it is hot and humid here (of course for you 90 is a breath of fresh air)

Hot and humid!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

We have been in a heat wave out here,it just cooled down a bit I think it was only 105 yesterday LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It is way to hot for June,I wonder what Aug will be like.Do you have a spare room at your place incase I start to melt. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Thanks Sue for the reply.I dont think that I DEMAND what I want,but I must say things here have not been good.