He was here and I had to get off here for a bit. I spoke to him some more. I told him that I have many problems that I need to get some help with, which I do. I have been having these panic attacks for several years and they are not going away. Sometimes I have them for no reason at all, it seems, when things are going ok. Times when I should feel happy, I feel scared or sad. I feel like things are just going too good and very soon the whole world will be utter kaos. My insurance policy covers treatment for panic disorders, which may have as much to do with my life before marriage as after.

I'm not afraid for my life. Only a fleeting thought about that crosses my mind. I'm afraid of his anger. Of the things he saays when he is angry, the way he looks at me, and his body language. It is very threatening. And he says the meanest things to me when he is angry. I had a talk with my midle D this evening too. I told her about the appointment. She thinks it is a good idea. She doesn't have school (she is in college) on that day and she said she would watch my grand-D for me and take her to Kindergarten. I have been afraid to speak to my kids about these problems, I don't want to cause them to think badly of their father. She said she thinks my H has always been a mean person. Mean to me anyway. She is his favorite DD and he doesn't give her too much greif. She has battled with depression too. I think it is that she feels as if she can't be good enough either. I've spent all my life trying to be good enough in front of her and failing.

I have read this whole thread. You need to go back and read it as if it were someone else. What I get from what you write, is a husband that has complete control over you. He tells you what you are to think, what you are to do, who you are to see and if you do not, he manipulates you into thinking you are crazy, bad, wrong, whatever

He certainly doesn't want you seeing a counselor, because he will lose control of your mind. He is playing major head games with you. He does as he wants, he hides all the money and he can certainly afford Effexor and the copay. He doesn't want to lose control of you. You are getting the proverbial "mind f#$@".

The physical abuse was about control,the emotional abuse is about control, he controls your and your thoughts. It sounds very plausible he is having an affair. Has he ever failed to preform in the bedroom with you? Just wondering why he says that is the reason you aren't intimate.

The man has been trained to shape people's thoughts, get them to look at things. He is doing that with you. At least from what you write

Hi,
I hope your ok .. I am gone for the weekend but I will check back on Monday ..
Stay strong .. and I AGREE with the previous poster! She hit the nail on the head!!!

Keep venting here...
Peace
D

I'm OK. I have been busy the past couple of days. I wake up in an anxiety attack every day. Today it came and went throughout the day, when I wasn't busy. I have so much anxiety about this appointment. It is so scary to me, I am afraid to know things that I might find out about myself, or to let myself think along some lines. I am very, very afraid of going to sleep one night and then waking up in another world again, and feeling lost again.

About my H's intimate relationship with me, now and then he's had a little trouble. Nothing which I would consider unusual for an average guy. I think that all people have a little trouble now and then. What I'm a little puzzled about is that it had seemed to be ok preceding the period we are now in, and then there was nothing. How does he know that he can't perform if he hasn't tried it for a while? He just seemed to loose interest. On my part, I have a few problems, and I have often thought that it must really be a turn off for him if I wince in pain every time he touches me.

Another thing which has changed is that I always was irritated with him, because it seemed that if he ever touched me it had to lead to the bedroom. I need to be hugged and such, just for the sake of being hugged. Now it is he who says that if he ever touches me I want to force him into doing more. WHA????? I don't know where that came from. I don't believe that it true of me. Especially since I have had no libido to speal of, for as long as my thyroid hormone has been low. I even asked my friend how abnormal was that to never care if I ever did that again. She thought, naturally, that something was quite wrong about that.

The last couple of days my H has been building a fence, so I went along to sit in the truck and talk to him. We had a fairly enjoyable time together, both days. At sunset we went to the top of a hill that is on our property and watched to sunset. This was the kind of thing we used to do together. He took me out to dinner last night, because he said I was a lot of help to him, handing him tools, taking bumpy rides in the back of the truck to watch that the wire didn't tangle as it came off the bale, and such as that; and I was so tired and achy after a long day. I told him I was so exhausted that I couldn't take another step. I didn't have to mention twice that it would sure would be nice to not have to cook dinner after such a long hard day. He didn't make much argument to that. I'm sure he was much more tired than I was, but then, he is used to this kind of thing and nowadays, I am not.

He is nervous about this appointment I am going to, but not as threatened as if I were seeing somebody in his agency. Perhaps he could see this person too. I don't think he is happy either. I know he likes to dominate and control me. His mother does him that way and her mother before that. This is how they all relate with each other. I have stopped putting much trust in them a long time ago, for they wanted to make me be who they wanted me to be and didn't care who I am. H has been the same way at times. I feel that at least half the abuse he gave to me was on behalf of his family who will not accept him if he doesn't toe the line. So he felt the need to whip me into shape when I wouldn't be what they wanted me to be. It was rough, but sometimes I thought he admired me for trying to be me, in spite of his anxiety at my non-conformity. Perhaps he saw in me what he wished he could do with his family. Well, most of his elder family is gone now, and as sad as it is to have those folks gone (for we loved them anyway) it has relieved his anxiety somewhat about my inability to measure up to the standards set for me.

I think that part of the H's intimate problem has been a side effect of a medication he used to take. It could be that he has an organic problem that ought to be looked into, but he refuses to speak to his (female) doctor about it. We don't see the same doctor either. I never know when he goes to the doctor, if he does. If I do know about his visit, he never tells me what the doctor says but I do know what medications he takes. I know his Cholesterol is high and that when he asks to be taken to the doctor he is very sick or has a broken bone.
He also is under a lot of stress from his job. There are somany budget cuts that all staff have ben cut back to avoid layoffs, but he does his 5 days of work in 4 days. On the day off he catches up his paperwork at home. He works the farm on nights when it is still light when he gets home and weekends. If a small family farmer could make a living on his farm these days, it would help immensely.

He works all the time, and I used to be able to help him. For a time, we used to be friends, after battling our way through the first rough decade of our marriage. We used to be partners, aand he was treating me with a new respect and admiration and I thanked God that we finally made it through that bad stuff to be friends and partners. I thought then that we'd be inseparable after that. Everything changed when I began having so many physical problems and then we took in the grandkids. Slowly, slowly, we were loosing each other again. He seemed to begin to view me in his old way, especially after his mother had a jealous fit about how I was running his life. Really, after that day, it hasn't been right.

You'd just have to know my MIL to understand. She was what was termed at one time as a Supermom. She is perfect. Everything she does is perfect. She looks perfect, she dresses perfect, her entire house is perfect and ready for company at all times, she knows the "right" people, the does the "right" things, etc... (ad nauseum)

25YM,

I just wanted you to know that I have been reading your thread. It's long. You've got a lot of pain and fear in you. You need people to talk to - normal people who don't try to manipulate and control you.

I'm glad your daughter helps some. The place you live in sounds like where my Dad came from. I have some aunts who still live down there. I can say right now that I will never live in a well-established small town. In a growning area where there are 90% newcommers - maybe, but not in place like that. I wish you could get out of there.

Take care of yourself.

And one more thing...

I think you are a good writer. Have you thought about writing short stories - or "tales about the old days" - or whatever? I think you would be good a that - maybe get published someplace. Just writing about your life - which, quite honestly is depressing, my sell well. That would really do your H a number! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It would be sort of a Faulkneresque thing. Are you in MS?

-AD

<small>[ May 16, 2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

That is interesting. My H has a brother and a sister, but they rarely speak directly to each other, most things are funneled through MIL. Not only that, but they have a lot of non-verbal signals by which they know when they are saying what they shouldn't, not saying what they should or should just shut up. I never caught any of it and got into trouble LOTS of times because I didn't speak the non-verbal language.

I might have thought about writing once. I have a got going on right now. It's hard to concentrate. Thanks for the compliment. My typing leaves a lot to be desired I'm afraid.

I went to the appointment. I don't thnk I will go back. The guy said he thought I have Panic Disorder and possibly agorophobia and that I need to see a pshychiatrist for medication because they way that I think about things is messed up and I probably perceive things the wrong way. He says after I get medicine we will discuss what i think the problems are with the marriage and whays to deal with the anxiety. When I can think more clearly about things, that is. I told him once that my H is an LPC at (XYZ) mental health clinic and then he asked me twice more throughout the interview to be sure that my H worked at (XYZ) clinic.

I got the feeling thought I was rather crazy and that what I say might not have any validity and that if it did have any validity that he was disgusted with the way I allowed myself to be treated. I don't know what he expects me to do for money. Why bother to make an appointment and show up just to be turned away because I don't have any money to pay the bill?

Sheesh! I'm going to cuddle up in my chair and zone out. To heck with it!

The counselor did ask me if I recognized the voice on the phone. He said that if I recognized it, then chances are it was that person. That makes me remember why I had the fight with my friend the day that I got the first phone call. I was sure I did recognize the voice and it was the voice of a young lady who happened to be visitng her home at the same time that I was there. A young lady who doesn't even know my H.

The person whom I spoke with used language which my H has quite convincingly stated that he finds very offensive. She really didn't appear to be his type at all. She seemed like a really slutty person. The young lady who was at my friend's house fit the description, language useage and all. Besides that, people who live around here don't have such a pronounced accent. This woman had an accent much the same as the place where I, my friend and the young lady in question grew up.

That would bring me back to wondering why my good friend would want to hurt me like that.

I gotta think some more.

Do you think that if I was really convinced on the day of the call of the caller's I.D., that there is a good chance that I was right about who she was at that time? Should I believe my friend just because she denies it, she has treated me badly a few other times, but nothing like this.

Perhaps I should just leave the both of them, each of them seem intent on getting me away from the other person.

These people are driving me crazy and I'm crazy enough already!...I think I should run away from home. (Except that home is the only place I want to be.)

I feel a litle better today. I told my H what the counselor said. He thinks the guy is right. He agreed that I could go see him, but only twice a month because our finances are sho short. Our insurance does cover it too. He will give me the money for the copay though.

My H says that he thinks I am paranoid and delusional. He says that since he used to treat me so badly, which he is sorry for and ashamed of, that I can't get it out of myhead and always assume that he means to hurt me all the time now, when he doesn't. He says I always think the worst. He still denies that that he had an A, and says that if I recognized the voice, it probably is that person I thought it was too. He still thinks it was my friend who did it, and he thinks my friend is crazy and giving me all these ideas. Well folks, I had to agree with that somewhat. My friend does have quite a few emotional problems. I emailed her yesterday and told her that I did recognized the voice. She never knew that. All she emailed back after i told her that so far was "I love you" She thinks I got a bad counselor.

Back to my H: He still says it is I who have changed. He says he loves me and misses me but he doesn't know how to deal with me because I am always thinking he means bad things. We used to always end up fighting when we tried to talk. I was always so irritable. which is true. I needed him and he didn't seem to understand or care. He just withdrew and avoided me. That was back when he joined the health club. He didn't understand how much pain I was in from the arthritis and and we didn't even know I had a fractured pelvis. I found that out only recently when the doctor took X-Rays for the arthritis. He thought I was making it all up and trying to get me to feel sorry for me. He thought I was just really lazy, when I was so tired I could barely get out of my chair because my thyroid hormone was so low. I thought he just quit loving me, after we had made such strides toward a good relationship, overcoming all the old stuff we'd been through and actually being friends and good support for one another. We really were for a few years. He was there for me and I was there for him. It was great. I thought he just went back to his old ways. We both have a lot of adjusting to do right now. I have a lot of anger I have to get rid of because of his not believing me and acting as If I were pretending to be hurt for sympathy. He says he is sorry that he didn't believe me or help me when I needed it. He says he loves me and he misses me and wishes that I would go out with him. He wants me to go OUT and leave the house and do things with him. As far as the sleeping thing. It was I who first began sleeping in another rom. I did that because my H sleeps so lightly, that I cannot turn over in bed without waking him up. Or I snore and he wakes me up to turn over because I am keeping him awake. He is nearly non-funtional if he doesn't get at least 8 hours of sleep at night, and a bear to live with. Since I have arthritis now, I turn over and over, I can't lie in one spot very long or the pain wakes me up. the constant turning keeps him awake all night. When I got treatment for the pain, I thought I could sleep with him again, but he was used to sleeping alone by then. I felt rejected then. He tried to sleep with me, but he ended up on the sofa every night, so I went back to my room.

Still, he doesn't hug me or kiss me, hardly ever. He never has, he's not an affectionate guy. And I have a thing about people touching me. I don't want him to touch me while I am asleep. He says I used to push him away when he tried to touch me so he quit trying. I wanted himto touch me, but not after he had hit me the night before. It's a complicated thing I guess.

We have a lot of healing to do. My H says he loves me, and I love him. If we love each other and try to learn about each other and show our love and not hurt one another, it might be ok. The counselor says I need to get my medication so that my brain can think more clearly and that I need to do things so that I am more empowered, and then I will be able to tell my H when I won't stand to be treated like a doormat (which I used to do at one time, and it was accepted by my H as indication that things had to change so he changed)

It went ok until the MIL got involved. This time I will have to tell MIL to mind her own and quit being a buttinski. If we get that far, perhaps my H will tell her and I won't have to. That would be best for him, I think. When a guy is 48 years old he ought to be able to tell his mom he's grown up now and can manage his own life now.

Anyway, we're off to counseling. Thanks for being here Diamond ZZZ. I just needed an impartial person to have an opinion. As I told the counselor and the doctor, I don't know who to trust. I feel like I can't trust either my H or my friend at this point. But the counselor will help me sort it out.

Hi There,

First of all .. you are very welcome ... all I did was listen though... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I am "cautiously" happy to hear about your turn around in perspective in seeing things.

I will certainly not try to talk you out of your feelings AT ALL. I, like anyone else here, should be only interested in the truth and interested in SAVING marriages, not breaking them up.

Anything that you can do that will get you two on the road to healing your marriage, is great with me!!

Throughout your posts there has been one theme (despite all the horrible details you have shared) and that is that you truly want your life to go back to the way it was with hubby... something changed in his life and by your own admission things were "better for a few years." That seems to be your heart's desire. To save your marriage and get it back to where you two where 'best friends'. Who wouldn't!!

Of course you can NOT change him, but you CAN change yourself so counseling is definitely what you both need to sort thru this mess.

I can't speculate whether the counselor or your husband is correct that you are actually paranoid about things that don't exist, but I can say I am proud of you for finally come out with it and dealing directly with your husband about it.

You have done a lot of very courageous things lately that I just KNOW must have been hard for you to do.

Keep an open attitude about dealing with things no matter how tough it gets and be open to seeing this from a different perspective.

Trust is a hard one hon. If I could gave you a magic formula that would help you do that, I would be rich. I think you just have to take that one in baby steps.

Again, I can't make a judgment call about your friend, as to whether she has been a good influence or a bad one for you in this area, but I will say you are well on your way to at least being open to either thought. That is good.

I would suggest you determine in your heart to continue to reach out to people and possibility make more friends. There is a safety in getting more than one opinion on things, as you well know.

There may be some people on this board that would be upset to hear that you are so easily giving up your and "agreeing" with your husband but I am not one of them.

It has been my experience that sometimes for health reasons we can be depressed. Depression can cloud your thinking and it CAN cause you to be paranoid. He may be right.

All I would suggest is that you follow your own gut feelings. If you two go into counseling and it just doesn't feel right, or you feel that your husband is STILL being dishonest or having an affair, keep talking and don't give up till you know for sure.

If it is a question of the medication helping .. you will know fairly soon after it kicks in whether or not this was the "real" problem.

Anyway, I support you in your efforts and truly wish you God's best. You are good person with love to give --I hope you will not give up!

I know I sound like a broken record but keep coming and venting as you need to, I really do think it helps .....

Peace
D

Excuse me --one more comment I meant to make ....
Your MIL .......

I am in a second marriage myself, so I do have at least two experiences to compare it with.

My first MIL very much controlled my ex .. to the point that I felt stiffled in the marriage.

I will never blame her for the break up of the marriage, but let's just say she never helped any.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think that this is a very important issue that you might want to address in counseling. The problems that you just lightly addressed here mentioning her, show me that she is a very big problem in the marriage.

I personally believe it is the foundation of EVERY marriage that the husband AND wife both "cleave and LEAVE" their family of origin.

MIL or FIL or Mom or Dad CAN'T have more say then either spouse, or you have an imbalance.

I wish I had known the importance of this in my first marriage.

Believe you me, I am dealing with this now in my second marriage because I don't want a repeat performance.

The sooner you and hubby get on level playing ground with this one, the better!! Bringing this up in front of a counseler is a great place to start.

Peace,
D