Go into the bathroom and fist pump and dance in the mirror. Stir the pot and mouth you da' man.

Just remember...you're making baby steps and when you take a backward steps it's a giant one, so backwards steps are to be avoid if possible (and all are not). This happens to ALL of us. This isn't called a rollercoaster ride for nothing...and those lows are sometimes so deep and so dark that you feel you can never get enough motion back to make the climb once again.

It's very easy to get your hopes up when something comes "right", this is normal. Just don't get your expectations up to where when they aren't met (and they almost never are) that you decend too rapidly into the depths. The calmer and kinder you are, the better.

Our expectations can lead us to emotional overload of depression and feelngs of giving up the battle. This you must protect yourself from.

Also...do NOT try to read her mind and decide for yourself what she is thinking and feeling. She may not be to the stage where she is willing to open up to you and tell you what she is feeling...YET...but if you continue to show her that you have changed and that these changes are real...then she may well reach this stage sooner instead of later. There is NO mindreading allowed!!!

She is coming towards you, allbeit slowly. Accept things on face value. Don't read into them more then there is, but nothing wrong in trying to steer her into planning things for the future...slowly...do NOT push. Steer by example...and be the leading force, not the pushing from behind (she'll dig in her heels).

LOL d_rose ! I'm trying not to get that excited! The day I see those rings back on her finger is the day I do the happy dance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

just a wifey 2002 thanks again for some sound advice. You put things in a way that even I can understand it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I will continue to take things slowly and I won't read into it. I'll wait for her to actually say something. How long can this process take? I know it will depend on the person(s), but is there an average? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

She still will not say "i love you" back to me on a regular basis...but I guess that's to be expected at this early stage.

At least she's calling me in work and we are carrying on a normal conversation completely unrelated to our current situation. Yay!

IT'S A NEW DAY! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Yesterday (when I got home from work) and this morning were soooo much different than my previous post.

Well...yesterday was uneventful. It was quiet. We watched a little TV together. She still was feeling a little drained from it being that time of the month.

This morning...she's feeling better after a good night's sleep...she was not making much eye contact with me. That's how she gets when she's angry with me, but I'm certain I did nothing to make her mad. I tried to give her a kiss good-bye as we were both on our way out the door to go to work. She walked right past me and said (in a nice tone) "you have to stop". This is killing me. Any hope I had yesterday is now completely gone. I'm feeling hurt and angry (again). I almost can't wait to get home just so I can ignore her!!

Questions:

1. What's my next step? Keep going with the niceness of Plan A?

2.
a) Should I never try to kiss or touch her ever again until she initiates it...that is IF she initiates it?

b) When in bed together...do I snuggle? Do I sleep way on the other side as far away as possible? Should I just sleep on the couch???

3. If the answer to #2a is YES...isn't that a form of Plan B?

4. Should I just treat her like a buddy and act like I'm accepting of the fact that it's "over" and act like I'm just waiting for her to move out?

5. Should I stop saying "i love you"? She hasn't said it back to me for 2 days (when she did I think it was more out of habit). She has asked me at the beginning of all this to stop saying "i love you" to her, but she hasn't asked again. She just ignores the fact I'm saying it to her.

These are things that are racing through my mind. I'm not sure what I should do from here. I'm doing little things for her that I know she would have appreciated before, but at this time it seems all for naught. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I'm trying very hard to see where she is coming from. It's difficult when you aren't actually there to see what has gone on. I have no idea how you treated her when you were having your A(s). She could have zero faith in the fact you are being honest. She might think it's game on your part and as soon as she comes back and lets down her guard you'll be at it again.

You have a lot of work ahead of you...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by findingmywayback:
<strong>I'm trying very hard to see where she is coming from. It's difficult when you aren't actually there to see what has gone on. I have no idea how you treated her when you were having your A(s). She could have zero faith in the fact you are being honest. She might think it's game on your part and as soon as she comes back and lets down her guard you'll be at it again.

You have a lot of work ahead of you...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes...I believe that's where she is at. She just will not believe in me at all. I know I have a lot of work ahead of me. I'm willing to fight for our marriage. At this point, she is not. I understand that to a point...but I'm not sure how to react or respond to her actions or lack thereof.

Hence, the questions in my previous post.

Questions:

1. What's my next step? Keep going with the niceness of Plan A?

YES!

2. a) Should I never try to kiss or touch her ever again until she initiates it...that is IF she initiates it?

NO! Don't push it, but don't stop being willing to initiate either. Since she did ask you to stop, you may have a problem with this as you do need to respect her wishes...but she's giving lots of mixed signals...so it's difficult to know what to do and what is more important, what not to do. I'd still make it clear that you'd like to kiss her hello and goodbye. But it's up to her if she wants to accept it or not.

b) When in bed together...do I snuggle? Do I sleep way on the other side as far away as possible? Should I just sleep on the couch???

DO NOT go to the couch! Do NOT hold yourself apart in bed. You will have to figure out for yourself how close she'll allow you while in bed, if she's willing...snuggle. If not, even a touch on the arm shows you care.

3. If the answer to #2a is YES...isn't that a form of Plan B?

Do NOT go to Plan B! It's way to early.

4. Should I just treat her like a buddy and act like I'm accepting of the fact that it's "over" and act like I'm just waiting for her to move out?

If you want to be a buddy only...then act like one! If you want to continue being a husband...then act like one.

5. Should I stop saying "i love you"? She hasn't said it back to me for 2 days (when she did I think it was more out of habit). She has asked me at the beginning of all this to stop saying "i love you" to her, but she hasn't asked again. She just ignores the fact I'm saying it to her.

NO! If you want to express your feelings...then do so. Do NOT make her reaction or non-reaction a reason for your own behavior. You control YOU, you can't control her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I almost can't wait to get home just so I can ignore her!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Game playing will NOT be productive...if you want to go there...that's up to you. It's understandable that you are upset...but be careful how you respond.

Ok.

Yes I am upset and frustrated.

I won't ignore her. I will continue with Plan A as you mentioned. I'm hoping my CD copy of His Needs/Her Needs will be in today or tomorrow.

I'm a little concerened about what her reaction will be when it comes in...but then again, what can she really say about it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

More bad news....

Got laid off from my job yesterday...this obviously only adds to the stress of other issues.

About a month or 2 ago, I made the mistake of telling my loving wife that I almost wish I'd get laid off (because of problems in work). I did not want this to happen...at least not at this point. My absence from work over the past few weeks, both mentally and emotionally made it an easy choice for my boss.

I have always worked...and worked hard.
I'm asking my wife to keep it quiet and not tell the "OM" or any of her friends in work. She refuses to make that promise to me and is only trying to turn it into a fight.
I can't win.

Life is coming apart at the seams...

seacoast,

Sorry to hear about your job. They say bad things come in threes...the dozens sometimes huh. I know your emotions are all over the place and nothing is static right now but(not blowing smoke up your [censored]) things will get easier.

I had plenty of people tell me that don't let yourself be affected by what your W does. Easier said than done I know. Accepting that my lovely wife is gonna do what she wants, when she wants and how she wants. Right now your wife probably doesn't care how this is affecting you, probably not intentionally but happening nonetheless.

This is about you and how you can make you a better person to be married to. She has to do the same. Change you for you not to make her look bad or to try and one up her. Your life is gonna go on regardless of what happens. I pray as do a bunch of others that your M will be reconciled but that isn't up to you, it is up to her.

As much as you want it she has to also. You are experiencing the fallout of her actions (and your's) in your personal life and now in your job. The best you can do right now is keep "doing" you, let her know you love her and are willing to work on the M. That you will be willing as long as you can.

Good luck with the job. Without gettin to personal what kind of work do you do?

<small>[ April 24, 2003, 07:26 AM: Message edited by: d_rose ]</small>

Thanks d_rose

I've been down before, but this is different.

I'm a CNC machinist by trade, but have worked myself into a CNC Programmer/Dept. Mgr. position.

thanks for everything

SC...so very sorry about your job. This economy is killing us all. Hope you're in a area where the job market is doing well. Praying that your period of unemployment will be brief.

Believe me, I understand...H was laid off after his company was involved in a hostile takeover, as was everyone in the main headquarters...this was back in 6/2002 and he's only three of the fifty who were laid off who has gotten a new job...and this was after almost nine months of unemployment. And with that he had to take a pay cut to get back to work. Been hard, going from a six figure income and having to use all our saving to survive until he got a job. Just like starting all over. LOL

Hope you are luckier!

Thank you just a wifey 2002

Just got home from my former employer... he's giving me 2 weeks severance pay over 8 weeks...so that should help a little in addition to the unemployment benefits. Maybe the "off time" will help a little.

I just got His Needs/Her Needs in the mail! CD version.
I'm up to Track 12 on disc 1. All I can say is HOLY SH*T! It makes so much sense and all sounds so simple. The only thing is that I don't think I'll be able to get my wife to listen to it. Again...she keeps reiterating the fact that we are over. I asked her if we could go out to the "Olive Garden" this weekend since she mentioned it earlier in the week. Her comment was "we have to stop doing things like that" meaning going out together to do things.

I don't know who is more confused...her or me!?!?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

No offense, but........ahhhhhh....nevermind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ITSOVER:
<strong>No offense, but........ahhhhhh....nevermind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">C'mon don't do that to me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

What's on your mind?

OK...well her little plan is working...

Little by little...she's making me despise her.

Carrying on a normal adult conversation is impossible. She always thinks I'm playing mind games. I hope I can learn to hate her...it will make things so much easier. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

She REFUSES to listen to His Needs/Her Needs...something she is blaming for my "mind games and word games". Those are "stupid little tapes" as far as she's concerned. Wife does not have the maturity we will need to better ourselves and our marriage.

She still refuses to admit it has anything to do with OM. He's just a "friend". I'm not sure.

She's got a nasty mean streak in her...a side I'm hating right now. She can't see that we have 17 years of marriage to salvage. She says "we had a few good times, but marriage shouldn't be this much work. It's not supposed to be like this."

Maybe it's time to start registering with some singles clubs.

<small>[ April 25, 2003, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: SeaCoast ]</small>

NO! It is not time to start looking!

Now I haven't a clue if you're going to be successful at reclaiming your marriage. Maybe you won't, maybe in actually fact, your marriage shouldn't survive...I don't know.

BUT...your marriage does NOT deserve betrayals, your's or her's. If you're ready to give up...that's your choice. But go out and get a lawyer and deal with this relationship first before you start involving someone else into your "mess". Get your life in order.

Remember, Plan A is mainly about changing YOU, not changing your spouse. It's about becoming a better person and a better partner for whoever you end up with. Yes, you'd like to save your marriage and share this "new you" with your W...but that may not happen.

IF...you have decided to "throw in the towel" then find a good lawyer, discover what your rights are in your state, work out a fair division on marital assets, work out child custody issues fairly...and get a divorce. THEN sign up for as many single clubs as you want.

Good Luck...wherever you are heading.

That's what my H wants us to do but so far it's tearing us both apart inside. Where do you draw the line between friends and more especially when you're married? The lines of what's acceptable are very blurred and confusing.

Be careful.

just a wifey 2002....

I'm not really "ready" to meet anyone. I don't want anyone else. I was just blowing off steam since I can't do that with her (while in Plan A).

I'm just so frustrated, angry, hurt, confused...

I'm starting to wonder if I had an "OW" if it would make the constant put-downs and rejection easier to deal with. I KNOW it would confuse things and just add fuel to an already blazing inferno. I do want to improve myself for HER and HER ONLY. But she just doesn't care.

I know I've got lots of room for improvement...especially after listening to His Needs/Her Needs (up to D3 T12)...I know what i've been doing wrong and I'm trying to fix it...for myself yes, but also for my marriage and my family. If I could only get her to take a step back, open her eyes and mind a little and listen to the CD's...it could only help, but she won't.