Ali, don't call her. For you. You are only letting her know she got to you. I have my OW cell # memorized, I have her work extension memorized. I know where she lives. I see her daily(she is H's assistant) I would not give her the satisfaction of speaking to her. It only results in a pissing match and the one more in control of their feelings wins. Now, I do stare her down and she hasn't the balls to look me in the face, but I will only speak to her if she speaks to me, then I will laugh at her, for that is far worse than being yelled at.

Randy, I don't know what to tell you. You need to get your head on straight. The hurt an affair causes is immense. You are compounding it by your current actions. I bet she would stop screaming if you would just show her real remorse and love. Try it even through the anger she has, I bet it will chink through her anger

Randy

Perhaps if Ali didn't have to listen to your constantly telling her how much better life with the other woman was, and Texas was, and cheating was, and not having her and the children to be responsible for was, and how warm and pleasant the weather was, and the people of Texas were ETC, she just might feel like she was almost human in your eyes. But if course her hearing this constantly is of no importance whatsoever is it? The only thing of importance is the dream world you lived in for a few months.

It is generally against all I believe in to tell any one this, but you are such a special person that I find that I must make an exception. I understand that nothing any one says to you is ever going to make you the man you never were and never will be. Texas is your heaven is it not? Then take yourself to Texas and let Ali find a real man to be the father of her children.
You were never any more than a sperm donor to begin with so why would you deprive them of a father?

Is that not what you have begged everyone to tell you? Well now I have told you. Understand that my telling you this is not for your benefit because I know that within a year after you move there, Texas will be the same hell for you that you have made of all your previous dreams and jobs. The ones who will reap the benefits will be the children who you leave behind. They will not grow up with you as the model for a parent.

Ali has brought nothing but misery to your life and you tell her that every moment of every day. You have never had a happy moment with her have you? All she brought to your life was children you didn't want and jobs you grew to hate because she needed you to be responsible for those snotty little kids. She even opted to insure that one of them has a chance to live rather than let him die while she lived the carefree life you asked her to live.

You found someone who cared just as little for your wife and children as you did, and lived in luxury until she want you to commit to something. Now Ali doesn't take you to her breast like the mother you feel she should be to you, and give you all the empathy you need. Ali should hold you while you cry and wipe away your tears, but never express or feel any pain of her own related to the affair. Any pain she feels might deprive you of a portion the empathy people feel. All empathy rightfully belongs to you, and anyone who gets any of it is cheating you out of it just like the woman in Texas did.
Ali should be punished if she recieves empathy and does not tell everyone that you deserve it more than she does.

Well the truth is, I feel no empathy for you, but tons of it for what you are doing to your marriage. Everyone here feels empathy for Ali and the children and the misery you have made of thier lives. I among the others here have given you our best and your only response is to consistantly tell us how special you felt in Texas. Ali asks you to work on your marriage and you tell her you would rather spend your life remembering the dream life in Texas, and regretting having to face the truth that you have a wife and children.
You tell the world that the Texas Trolop is all you live for. If she don't love you like you deserve, you will spend the rest of your life seeking revenge against her. There is no cost you wont bear if you can pay her back for having the audacity to treat the great Randy with nothing less than complete respect and live in awe of him. OK. Take your butt to Texas, and get your revenge. But once you go there, NEVER again expect anything from Ali, she owes you nothing, but you awe her everything.

fudd.

Ali,

Please don’t call the OW anymore. By doing it you are giving her more power than she should have in your life. You are also setting yourself up to be charged with stalking.

THE OW really likes getting a rise from my wife!! She doesn't care that she broke apart or marriage. When Ali called her last week, the OW claimed I bought her things. NOT TRUE!!!!! In fact, one of the reasons as to why the affair ended was because I wasn't paying attention to her in the end.

I understand why you are calling her. But no good will come of it. She will never apologize. There is nothing useful she can tell you about the affair or your husband. She does not really know your husband as he presented a false image of himself to her. If she does share anything with you, you will have no way of knowing if it’s true or not. If she attacks you verbally, it will only add to your pain. She did what she did because she feels entitled. From the description of this woman she has no moral fiber what so ever. Do not lower yourself to her level. Threat her for what she is … nothing.

While I advocate contacting the OW once to tell her to get the hey out of your marriage, to remind her that she is interfering with a marriage and a family. Continued contact and calling, especially when she will not talk to you is a very back idea. You are validating her (see how important she is, she consumes you) with every phone call.

This woman is nothing to you. Your issues are with your husband. Turn your focus where it belongs… on yourself, your family, your marriage, and your husband.

By the way, if you get the impression that the OW got the best of your H, think again. From the above quote we get the picture… “In fact, one of the reasons as to why the affair ended was because I wasn't paying attention to her in the end.” Does not sound like a man who really cared for her. Instead sounds like a man who simply enjoyed the experience of playing around.

She yells, screams and is abusive. BUT SOMETIMES I THINK SHE HAS A RIGHT....I cheated on her!!!!

Randy I’ll share what I learned from my recovery process….

My counselor told me that when a person cheats the penalty they pay is to have to listen to their spouse express the anger over and over and over again until the anger is gone. They also have to answer truthful every question the spouse asks about the affair over and over and over again until she has no more questions.

I’m sure it’s not comfortable for you. But I can assure you that it is nowhere near as uncomfortable as the pain your wife feels. You did a terrible thing to her and your children. Now it’s your turn to act like a man and help your wife heal and repair your marriage.

From my experience the more you are willing to open up and share with her, the more honest you are, the sooner your marriage will recover. In my case the period of obsessive, daily (for hours) questions and expressing anger lasted 3.5 months. One day I had not more anger to express and no more questions. Actually the questions went down to about one a month after that. At that point I only had the hurt and the deep pit in my stomach to deal with. But at least I had some answers and the deep anger was gone.

As for the emotional roller coaster…. You paid for an unlimited ticket on that thing. Your emotions and your wife’s will go up and down for a long time. Mine started out at about 15 minutes between peaks and lows. By the end of the 6 months it was down to about 12 hours between it. Now, 2 years later they are gone.

AM I NOT ALLOWED TO BE SAD FOR THE LOSS OF THE JOB AND THE FACT THAT I FEEL EMPTY AT TIMES BECAUSE I MISS THE PEOPLE AND THE AREA IN TEXAS????

Bet that right now your wife has no sympathy for these feelings. I sure would not. Over time her anger will subside.

Randy, think of it this way.

If a person had a great job, friends, etc. Then they robbed a bank. Eventually they were caught and as a result lost all the money they stole, exactly how much sympathy would you have for them?

Recovery from an affair takes 2 to 5 years. Take it one day at a time. You caused the harm, it's your responsibility to lead the healing process.

<small>[ May 19, 2003, 01:20 AM: Message edited by: zorweb ]</small>

Group:

Enough said........... we are going in an emotional rollercoaster.

I want the group to reiterate to my wife Alli, STOP calling the OW. Alli calls her when we get into a vicious arguement and I leave the house.

The OW's responses have been the same which is "I REALLY DON'T CARE IF I HURT YOU, ALLI!!!".

From all of you, I guess I am not allowed to cry, to greive and not allowed to mourn in front of my wife. Hold it all in.

If that's what it takes....so be it!!!

RR, Your W calls OW after vicious arguments and you leave the house. She's probably calling to find out if you're running to her.

Try to stay next time. When she gets very upset, try holding her and CRYING WITH her insteadof running away.

ALI,

This is not about OW. Don't call her. When you call her you give her a place in your life and M that she should not have. You will never gain anything from this but frustration and disrespect. I say again this is not about OW, it's about how your H handled his own marital issues. If it hadn't have been her it probably would have been someone else. You have it in your head that there was something so remarkably irresistable about this woman that your H went astray. Therefore you can't trust that it's really over between them. The only thing spwcial about OW was that she was in the right place at the right time... when your H was in a position to make a very unwise decision.

Ali I called my H's OW many times. I'll always regret it. In fact she recently called because she has married the man she was separated from at the time of their A, and he's just now finding out about it... she wants me to keep quiet. KARMA, ALI. Leave her to GOD.

I say this with so much experience. Calling her will be something you dislike yourself for later. Is she really worth that? Think about it, your M is on the rocks, H is not there. Do you really need another problem, like a harrassment charge?

RR,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> THE OW really likes getting a rise from my wife!! She doesn't care that she broke apart or marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SHE didn't do that Randy, YOU did that. It's time for you to be honest with yourself and with your W about what you want. I realize that it's hard for you, to find yourself "in recovery" right now, but if you're ever going to get there the first thing you have to accept is that the fallout of your A is easier for you and OW to deal with than ALI. YOU and OW asked for this Ali didn't. If you love her, and want her to love you back, accept that you have some serious work to do. And calling her names, drinking, etc does not seem to be cutting it. She's humiliated,Randy. If you want to reach her you have to show a little humility, too. Not anger and resistance. You have a VERY small window of opportunity here. And it's closing fast. If you want your M, show Ali that.

want the group to reiterate to my wife Alli, STOP calling the OW. Alli calls her when we get into a vicious arguement and I leave the house.

Well then it seems that what you are doing is not working. I agree that she is probably calling OW because she is afraid that when you leave you are making a beeline to the OW.

Since you both know this is a problem, STOP having vicious arguments. There is no reason to go on arguing when things get heated. Stop at that point, before things get out of hand. Go to different rooms until you BOTH cool down. Nothing is gained from ‘vicious arguments’ except more hurt.

Emotionally healthy adults do not have vicious arguments. Think of how you are scaring and hurting your children when you do this… or do you even care about that?

The OW's responses have been the same which is "I REALLY DON'T CARE IF I HURT YOU, ALLI!!!".

Have to say you picked a poisonous one. At least she’s honest even if she lacks morals in just about every other area. Actually my bet is that she gets off on the power trip of having hurt someone… having taken their husband away. So she probably gets off on the phone calls.

From all of you, I guess I am not allowed to cry, to greive and not allowed to mourn in front of my wife. Hold it all in.

This is all about a self-pity party. It will not work. Don’t keep it all in, journal and then throw it out so that your wife does not ‘stumble’ on it. Get an individual counselor for yourself if you need someone to cry to. The idea right now is to PROTECT your wife and take extraordinary CARE of her.

Perhaps right now she is no hurt she does not really care if your marriage works. Right now your wife’s emotional state is such that her main concern is probably her own emotional survival. You have to give her that time.

Ali and Randy,

To make this marriage work you have stop the fights and the love busters. A good exercise is to think of how you would want to be treated if you were in the other’s shoes.

I did this; the result was that I treated my husband with care, love, respect and protection. He did the same to me. We have never, ever had anything that could even come close to a vicious argument. We can count on one hand the number of times we have yelled or had a ‘tense’ argument. We just do not go there.

Yes Randy did something terrible. Probably the worst thing he could have done to you Ali. But don’t compound it. You are really hurting yourself and your children when you do this.

RR,

I do believe that you have a right to your own feelings. My H went through a horrific withdrawl period. I made the best attempts I could to understand that as wrong as it was, he was giving up someone who met his needs when I didn't. And it was very hard for me. When his withdrawl period ended, the first thing I got was an apology. He apologized for giving his own grief and his own feelings more of a priority than he gave to mine. After all he chose to handle things this way, not me.

You do have a right to your own feelings, RR... but I can't help but say that perhaps it isn't fair to ask your W to deal with them. She's already dealing with a horrific betrayal, anger over the lies, deception, abandonment that YOU caused. Do you really believe it's fair that she should have to endure the crap you heaped onto your own shoulders?

BTW, have you and Ali read and really studied the part of this website that deals with infidelity? You may realize that you're not alone in your feelings and this may help you to not heap so much onto your W. If you must vent about your own feeling, RR, vent to us! When you are with your W, concentrate on her and the HEALING of your M, until you can both get far enough past the anger to share everything.

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Ali...I completely agree for the very first time with RR...Do NOT call the OW!!!!! NEVER...EVER...again!!!!!!!

Maybe the two of you need to look over Plan A and then use it TOGETHER on each other. If you take the affair business out of Plan A and just use it as a guideline on how to treat each other and yourselves it might be a step in learning how to respect and value the other.

You need some professional help in learning how to "fight fair". You're fighting is not accomplishing much, it's more counter-productive then it is helping.

Ali...I know you're hurting...I know too that RR is hurting. Not everything that RR is sad about envolves the betrayal. I know how we as the BS tend to think that every time our WS isn't being "upbeat" and everything which comes up "must" be affair related...well it's NOT!

Yes, RR is focused to much on his "pity me" party, but Ali...you are also focusing on only the affair issues. (I know hard not to focus on them.) It's NOT just the affair, it's a lot of other issues which are being overshadowed by the affair.

Please...get into some individual counseling...BOTH of YOU! Also, find a good pro-marriage counselor who can help guide you on finding your healing path.

Amen wifey... Amen.

Ali, RR... This is the best advice You've been given. It's past time for both of you start meeting each other's needs and caring for your kids. Or you can stay on the painful treadmill you're on and go nowhere real fast.

S&C

Ali,

I have to agree with everyone else - Don't call the OW. It does not help.

I understand why, but don't do it. Call a friend, post here, do anything but do not call OW. Everytime you do that, as was said earlier you give her power, and you cannot get her out of your M if you keep calling her.

Hello!
All of you are right, I should not have called the "thing" as Note dude puts it! I am not exactly sure what came out of it! I did say something that caused a lot of silence though and that made me feel good! But I understand and it will not happen again! I know better and I did not use any judgement!
I am so hurt and distraught over this! As all of you BS's know that it makes you rethink your life
and your sense of self worth! I feel so low when I am around him and I just want to scream at him and say look what you did to me? Well, I did and he thinks I am attacking his poor feelings and he comes back excusing his behavior that he is hurt too! RRRrrrrrrr! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> See, It is always about him! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
But I am sorry I forgot who mentioned this, but Randy is greiving over his job. Yes it was a blow! But I have mixed feelings over that! Yes I am happy he is not there because of that ugly walking thing! Only because I would be affraid of what I could do to her! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But I am sad to see him unhappy because he found what somrthing that he always wanted to do! But I just cannot support him!
And you know, If feel that everytime he mopes around the house about the thing and what she did to him, it betrays me again and again! I have to live through the images of those two in an embrace and I can't handle it! I just can't!
I feel that if nothing happens in his brain, I am going to call that attorney and release myself from this situation. If he truley cares about me he would definitely put his needs behind mine!Didn't he put his needs in Texas first!
By the way, Ms. Lady, the "thing" that he messed around with is from San Antonio! What a strange coincidence. Her slutly sister is from there as well. And she still resides there too!
I have tried to find Plan "A"! I feel a little dense! Put can someone tell me how to get to it?

I also wanted to mention that Randy is giving me mixed messages! I am not sure if he is saying things and wanting to purposly hurt me for his own esteem or what he is doing?
I am too young for this to be ruining my life!
Ali
PS You know how they have child molesters posted? They should have women who go after married men posted and have to go through a screening before accepting a job to see if they are on that list and then warn all wifes of it! Or embarrass the the ugly nasty thing in the paper like they do some criminals! That would be justice! What do you all think???

RandyR and Ali88: I have done some 'cut and pasting' on this - my remarks are in ** ** as I am not that good at 'quotes' yet, sorry. I do hope that you both follow all the EXCELLENT advice given on this thread. Please!
Sincerely, Harold

originally posted by RR: Is it normal to go "in and out" of recovery??? **Yes, it is. You both are having feelings go up and down and this extreme hurt you have caused your Wife is not going to just disappear in a few days - this could take weeks or months. Her hurt will lessen as time passes, but remember, there will always be 'triggers' and that is something you are going to have to manage.**

I mean, somedays, I feel "ok" and want to work on the marriage and make it better/repair and then the next day, I feel depressed sad and want to just hang my head and cry. **Again, it's your feelings and emotions on the 'rollercoaster ride'; this continuing fallout from the Affair.**

She is in so much pain/anger right now. I think she wants me to completly stop thinking about the OW and the job that I lost down there. It was a multiple loss down in Texas. **I don't blame her - you shattered her entire world. And the sooner you stop thinking about that Job in Texas you can begin moving on from this hurt and pain. There are other good jobs other than in just Texas!**

For 3 years, I was unhappy in the positions that I had with my career. Perhaps one of the contributing reasons to the affair was the unhappiness of our marriage due to the stress of my career. I am not making excuses but when Ali and I discus what happened and why I had the affair, the point that stands out is the unhappiness at work/career and why the choices I have made in my career have been so damaging. ** Just because you may have made a few bad career choices does not mean you have to keep making them. Pull back, regroup, reevaluate, and then move ahead with a new plan of attack on the career front.**

The job in McAllen made me feel alive again!! I had so much success down there and for the first time in my life, I felt confident and so important. But my wife was not with me!!! AND THIS IS WHERE HER BITTERNESS LIES AS WELL. The OW got me when I was happy and Ali (My wife) only knows me when I am sad and depressed. **The next time you have to move for a new job - TAKE YOUR WIFE & FAMILY WITH YOU!!!!**

Most of you are going to say "LET GO" or "STOP PUNISHING YOURSELF" but my happiness has been almost non existent for the past 5 years. I take all of the responsibility in the career choices that I have made so I don't want the nasty responses. **Just because you have been unhappy for the past 5 years is no reason to continue being unhappy. It is up to YOU to change things so you and your Family can be happy again**

Group, is it normal to go into ups and downs when trying to repair the marriage??? How do you repair the marriage from something so devestating than this. **Yes, it is normal - emotions have been violently shattered and this is all part of the long road to recovery. However, it takes YOU and your Wife to make it happen. You both get into Marriage Counseling TOGETHER not separately, but TOGETHER. Read Dr. Harley's book: "Surviving An Affair." Go to the Christian bookstore and stock up on Marriage Books. Read them. Heed them. "Guard Your Heart" is an excellent read - it's about protecting your Marriage and you both against Affairs.**

Worse, how do get over an affair that ended so violently that the "other person" is walking around as if nothing ever happened and is so evil that nothing effects her or when Ali calls, the response back fires!!!! **Vengeance is mine, I will repay says the Lord. She will get her comeuppance soon enough. You said her husband is taking her back after she has had 2 affairs on him. Either the guy is a total DOPE or he is very henpecked, or he's having an Affair of his own. Either way, I say IT SUX TO BE IN EITHER OF THEIR SHOES. And Ali NEEDS to STOP calling Mrs. Slut-bucket!!! She's a LOSER and a sleaze of the lowest type, plus a LIAR to boot. You both have got to forget her and move on with today - a NEW day!!**

I don't know how to make things better between my wife and I. She is so angry with me right now!! When we talk, she wants to talk about "us" but I don't know where to begin. We end up talking about the OW. Ali keeps telling me she was 30X better looking and that she (OW) looked like white trash. I don't respond because we are not really accomplishing anything. **You need to talk about 'us' beginning in Marriage Counseling. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get into Marriage Counseling ASAP!!! You wife is venting and it is her way of beginning to accept that you did have an Affair on her and she's trying to get her feelings out so she can begin healing. Women talk. Women need to talk - whether or not things are bad - women talk. That is the way God made women. Accept it. You and your wife should have been talking on a mature adult level years ago - and this Affair would not have happened. You did not guard your heart, therefore, you slipped. We're all imperfectly-created humans and because we're that way, we have to STAND GUARD on our Hearts to keep away the attacks on our Marriages and Family.**

Group/when I mop, I am thinking about McAllen, Texas. How I loved my job and the people and I was begining to adjust to the area. But Ali starts screaming at me that I am associating the job with the affair at work. **Face it - McAllen and that job are gone like a fart in the wind! You WILL find another job just as good as that one - if not better. So you lost a good job. Accept it. There are MORE jobs out there - you WILL find one. You have the experience and knowledge to do it.**

GROUP.....THE WORST PART RIGHT NOW FOR ME IS THAT I FINALLY FELT GOOD ABOUT MYSELF AND MY SELF WORTH AND MY WIFE WAS NOT AROUND TO SEE ME!!! **True, but when you work on getting another job - a better one - then she will see you again like that! And this time, take her with you so she will see you happy and having good self-worth!**

She yells, screams and is abusive. BUT SOMETIMES I THINK SHE HAS A RIGHT....I cheated on her!!!! **She does have a right - you have totally shattered her world and sense of security! She has to get those feelings out somehow. Time will heal her pain, slowly, but it will heal. You getting into Marriage Counseling RIGHT NOW will certainly help. So DO IT. Now. Today.**

Please help me. Can some of you try telling her NOT TO CALL THIS WOMAN!!!!

THE OW really likes getting a rise from my wife!! She doesn't care that she broke apart or marriage. **Of course she does. She's a HOMEWRECKER and selfish and does not care who she hurts.** When Ali called her last week, the OW claimed I bought her things. NOT TRUE!!!!! In fact, one of the reasons as to why the affair ended was because I wasn't paying attention to her in the end. **Again, Ali NEEDS to STOP calling her right now!!!! She is only going to continue pouring salt on her wounds by calling Ms. SlutBucket! No good can ever be accomplished by her calling her. She's a LOSER and a HUGE MISTAKE, so DON'T bother with her anymore. Leave her alone like you'd leave a nest of hornets alone!!**

THERE IS NO LIGHT AT THE END OF OUR TUNNEL FOR HAPPINIESS!!!! **Right now, the way you're both doing things, I guess not. So it is up to YOU and YOUR WIFE to change that. Get into Marriage Counseling NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Turn that corner. Change direction. Just because I head up I-35 to Oklahoma City is no reason I will get to Oklahoma City IF I change direction, is it? So CHANGE YOUR DIRECTION NOW!!**

AM I NOT ALLOWED TO BE SAD FOR THE LOSS OF THE JOB AND THE FACT THAT I FEEL EMPTY AT TIMES BECAUSE I MISS THE PEOPLE AND THE AREA IN TEXAS???? **Yes, as long as it's understood you really liked Texas, the job and the people (excluding Ms. Slutbucket) there.**

Randy,

I just want to scream at him and say look what you did to me? Well, I did and he thinks I am attacking his poor feelings and he comes back excusing his behavior that he is hurt too! RRRrrrrrrr! See, It is always about him!

Here is a suggestion of how to handle this. When your wife tells you of her anger, listen. Tell her that you know she is in pain, that you caused that pain and want to help her heal. Do not say anything about how you hurt too. Do not try to dismiss or diminish what she you have put her through.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html Here is link to Dr. Harley's Article "What Are Plan A & Plan B"
May the Lord bless you both and heal your hurting hearts, my friends.
Sincerely, Harold

"RR, it appears that for the first time in a long while you were really feeling good about yourself and competent and you are kicking yourself because you blew it."

For the first time in 6 years, Randy felt good about himself. Tragically, this all ended with the affair to a woman that was basically a leech with no heart.

RR wrote the message above using my user name!
I don't have any pity on what that thing did to my husband! She never would have "sucked him emotionally dry" if he stayed commited to me!
Ali

I am not sure what to do here! I am afraid to make a choice and have it be the wrong one! Do any of you honestly see RR wanting to work things out? I am here why? If I choose to leave and he does wake up, then I have left him without giving him a chance. But if I don't, and he still continues to treat me this way then what?
Ali <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

alli, you all really need marriage counseling and a few weeks apart. Both of you are too angry to deal with each other. Both of you are hurt. You need a mediator.

From the dialouges I have read, RR is in a cycle of hurt and depression, you are furious and betrayed and you two are just going round and round with those emotions.

If you two can each go to IC and MC, you might have a shot. I don't think you all are going to be able to work this out yourselves though. There is too much hurt and anger.

I heartily SECOND what naive' said - perhaps RandyR is just 'frozen' and unable to make any sort of move to begin this Healing Process. Maybe you, Ali88 could get the ball rolling - I know it sounds pathetic that you, the Betrayed Spouse have to get this train started, but apparently RandyR is just going to stay in his RUT. He's been given LOADS of excellent advice and he still takes none of it!
Harold