He is still betraying you without meaning to. He is like a drug addict...a drug addict that knows the thing was wrong for him, and what he wants out of life, but still has a craving. He has tied Texas, the thing, his job into one big bundle, and is mourning the loss of what he perceived as a good time. I wish he would do it on here and not share so much of it with you...likewise, you can share your anger here, and not so much of it at him...

I wish you each had your separate topics and would not read the others unless invited to, that way you can write without repercussions.

How much have you read? Of other's stories, of Dr. Harley's advice/work onthe website. He spells it out. It seems a bit formulaic, but most of us are on here because the formula seems to be working.

But, it didn't work right away...it's taken you years for M to get like this, it will take awhile to get back...and a better M. I know, hard to beleive it may be a better M, but consider this a wakeup call.

Don't make any rash decisions. He is still living under the influence of the drug. Wait until meds kick in and counseling has begun. Post here...Read here. Find some people you want to correspond with.

hi still,

i have read a lot! but really am trying to work at his methods but very difficult when rr doesn't want to work at it! i am using a lot of it for myself! it is a lot of hard work! i don't necessarily agree with what he is saying in some areas! maybe my head is in a fog and i am too defensive right now!
we are invited to see what the other has written!
he offers me to have a look at what he is written about! sometimes i chose and other times i fear what i am going to read!
it is not so much that it is an addiction but an anger that has taken over his whole body to get revenge on this ugly sleazy thing! i hate when he tells mb that i want it too! in fact, what i want is for him to work on us because i know later that will be the best revenge ever! does he see that now? obviously not!
he is so full of hatred for the ugly thing that it is taking over his life and communication with me to rebulid what we have lost in the disruction of the affair! As i said before,, i am the one who has to pick up the pieces and i am overwhelmed doing all by myself! too me, i am not important enough in his eyes to want to help!
ali

Whoops I did it again! I did not realize that I wrote under RR name! I apologize for any confusion
on my part! I have to be more careful! I realized it when I hit add reply!
sorry! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Ali

Ali, first of all I commend you. I don't know how you've come as far as you have.

One of the ways I was able to move on from my WH's affair was to seperate myself from him and to truly assess what my life would be like without him. I sat down with pen and paper. I wrote out financials, I made monthly budgets, I decided I would have to sell the house, rent a place, I did a spreadsheet of how I could then save up again, how I could start over. I closed my eyes and imagined myself alone, day after day, I picture visitations and imagined myself being cordial (because dammit I still loved him even if I couldn't handle BEING with him) and I realized in the end that I would be...okay. That I could do it on my own. That in some ways it would hurt less than dealing with the fallout of his betrayal. It helped me to become strong and to not put up with any crap because I had choices.

I guess what I'm saying is... Randy doesn't sound like he's made much progress and it's obviously killing you. It's time to start planning and to take care of YOURSELF and your children. Obviously right now he isn't man enough to handle that task.

*hug* I'm so sorry. You have your hands full as it is with two little ones with special needs. The idea that a man would emotionally abandon you with not only that on your plate but his betrayal is unthinkable to me. If you have any family near you I would encourage you to ask for their support as much as possible. You deserve to take care of you.

If Mr. RandyR is so hung up on Texas, he can come find a wonderful job right here in the Dallas/Ft. Worth Area! Food Logistics Manager?
SYSCO Systems is headquartered right here in Dallas. This area is the fastest-growing in the entire USA right now, and has been for the past 3 years.
BUTT! He needs to take YOU and YOUR KIDS with him this time!!!!! No more of this 'leaving y'all behind crap' nosir! He's having this self-esteem thing problem, he needs to think about YOUR self-esteem too.
JMHO.
Harold

Hi Still and Dude!
I just wanted to mention that I did analyze what my life would be like without him!
I know he would definitely have to support me while I would go back to school and finish. Chicago is very expensive place to live! I thought long and hard a plan that would best suite the needs of my kids! If that plan is ever is needed I will definitely use it! I basically managed this big house by myself with the exception of lawn care and shoveling the snow. My wonderful neighbors did that for me! Without me asking too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I am still in love with Randy and never fathom the idea that he would ever do this to me! I just want him to move forward and work on us! That is the most frustrating part of this whole thing!
By the way, he had mentioned that I want revenge! I wish he would stop adding me to his flunky list! I told him what I wanted my closure to be and I mentioned that I will never get it because what I want is in the past to change it! And that will never happen! Sure that evil thing gets me so angry as well as him! But I do not let her control me the way he does! I am not going to say i don't think about that thing! Do you know how humiliating it would be if that thing were to find this website and all of our postings???? She would probably be thinking look at all the power I have! I do not want her to have that satisfaction!
Anyway, Dude what do you play! Mr. Musician! What are you into???
Funny, I want to stay clear away from Texas! Although, nasty, dirty, scummy McAllen isn't really Texas. It looks more like Mexico! But it is great during our freezing months! And to add one more thing, RR mentioned a lot on the phone that McAllen was a horrible place to live! He is just remembering the life! He complained everyday about that ugly town! McAllen is the "jewel" of the valley! You ought to see what's around! UGLY! Need I say more? If he finds a job out of state, preferably Florida, by all means, I am packed! His job last year came at the most inconvenient time in our lives! If it had happened now? Much better chance!
until later,
Ali

Hi Ali88! Yes, I do agree that the area near McAllen is definitely 'little Mexico' one I would not want to live in. We visited South Padre Island this past Summer - wonderful place on the beach - until a hurricane comes in.. No, I'm talking about the area where I live - sure, it's flat as a dime, but I live out of town - in Granbury - the Northern Edge of Hill Country. Fact is, the ONLY mesa in North Texas is sitting about a half mile from my house - what a view! Lots of woods here and a nice lake.
This little town is just where it's at! Of course, to each their own preferences.
Regarding music, hehehee, well, the only musical instrument I can play is the radio or CD player hehee.
I have always enjoyed music - from Top 40 to acid rock, classic rock, country, gospel, bluegrass, rap, techno, disco, and EuroClub trance. Basically, I like all 'genres' as they call it. Last year, I discovered the wonderful world of MP3 File-Sharing online and (not to brag) but really got into it. Right now, there are 6,400 tunes on this computer. I had to buy another hard drive - filled the other one right up heheee. I will say there is some music that has disgusting lyrics, the band sucks, or the music just doesn't move me - in that case, I do not listen to those songs. Melody and lyrics are everything when it comes to music. Hope this answered a few questions.
Peace and Joy to you and RandyR.
Harold

The house situation is interesting...

I keep thinking, monetarily, what is your M worth?

If you had known things would have worked out the way they did in TX, would you have done things differently? Taken a loss on the house, moved down there to prevent the situation. Or do you sit back and say "see, I told you so".

Sorry about that last jibe, it's just something I would have said, a demon I'm trying to fight.

You and I sound like we handle our M similarly. I had/have little respect for my H, and it shows in everything I do for him, around him. I am struggling VERY hard to change that.

Those who dwell on the past are doomed to repeat it... Don't know who said that but in your case, RandyR - you need to not dwell on it.
You have a wide open road in front of you. You've been on these boards for most of this month now, just standing there. Your wife wants you to start walking (with her) down that road to a better future (with her). So you took a side road with the other person that led to a cliff. Now you're back on the main road again. Take your wife's hand and begin walking in the right direction. You have tons of advice and an excellent road map to keep you from straying again...
Take that first step. Do it today.
Harold

Hi Ali,

Sometimes when we're in the middle of a situation like you are and I was a couple of years ago. We put all our anger and focus on the OP. Your H is probably not going to like this but she probably doesn't even think of him. Your H means nothing to her and for you my dear, that is a trump card for you. I know the pain is still there and it hurts like hell what he's done but there is and never will be anything with those two again. The OW has made that clear. She dumped your H for another man, she won't be coming back for yours. Don't focus on her. Easier said than done, I know.

Sometimes when life throws unpleasant things our way we have two choices: Let it fester and grow and become more angry, full of hatred, obsessed with negative thinking or we can ask ourselves what can we learn from what has happened? I know this sounds cliche but it's true. My H's affair although devastating and cost me a near total nervous breakdown at the time was probably the best thing that could have happened to me and us as a couple. I had to take a hard look at myself and learn and realize what I wasn't doing that made him feel that he had to go to another woman. Don't get me wrong, I take absolutely no responsibility in his A, he was the one who chose to stray instead of communicating what was wrong.

You can grow stronger because of this and as you grow stronger you will see things in yourself that you didn't even know were there.

Focus on you for now, not the A. When you put the focus on you, you become stronger and wiser and your whole family will reap the benefits of this.

If you're not seeing a counsellor I would suggest it, and see one alone as well as a couple if you can. Read everything you can get your hands on. And don't let your H mope about the OW, you have enough to deal with personally and emotionally. You don't need to hear how wrong the OW treated him. First, you don't deserve it and you don't need it. The more he mopes and talks about this the more it puts you back. If he starts talking about how badly he was treated, get up and walk away. Do not engage him in his wallowing self-pity. Walk out of the room with dignity. If you stop talking about that part he may get the message that you don't want to hear it anymore.

take care
xxx

Hi Still and everyone else! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Absolutely not! I would still had to stay back because of my son and waited to see if Randy would have been stable! But Randy and I made that decision off of trust! Like I said, I never fathom the idea that he would ever cheat on me! It never crossed my mind! We were having a hard time in our M due to his job loses with his self worth! I felt like I was consistently his cheerleader and psychiatrist! I became pooped! And the fact that we had a new baby that needed surgery, the fact that I did not look like the person he had married! He found me physically unattractive! Still no excuse! He left for Texas when we were very vulnerable! If, I could back and change it? Or what could I have done to differently? There was nothing I could do except when he asked me the question; "How do you know when someone likes you more than a friend?" I should have "interrogated" him a little more! I am not sure if there was a whole lot I can do! If I lived closer and he was at home, OH YES!!!!!
I am frustrated at the fact that he does continue about how it ended! Again, my response? Who CARES!!!!!! I am glad it did! If she did not end it, I still think they would have continued until I moved down there this month! This is when I was finally going to join him!
I really want to get past this! Last night I was stuck in my jeep listening him go on and on about her! I wanted to throw him out! I did not respond or say anything! I was listening to the radio! Or at least trying to! The hurt in so deep! He just doesn't see it! No matter how hard I try explaining it to him, I feel that he views me as a sibling rather than his wife! Like I said before, if he is sincere enough to realize the mistakes he made a wants to full heartily put this in the past, I am all for it! he can lesson the pain with empathy and sympathy! But all I hear is how sorry he is for the job loss!
MC and home therapy starts! I forgot to give the our insurance card number for the to move forward! Total error on my end!
Ali

I'm a look on the bright side of things.

Many of us on here wish our WSs would tell us about the A. Would be honest with us about their feelings.

You have that gift, but it is also a curse. Now I realize that maybe the close mouth I get from my WH is sometimes good.

Have you thought about scheduling times when you can hear it, and when you can't...the constant pain can be trying. Only take as much as you want...like an hour? half hour? less? this much time a day? week? month? year?

Hi Ali88! That's wonderful you two are beginning Marriage Counseling!! It made my day when I read that, we've been praying for you to get into MC and begin the healing process. I've also noticed that RandyR's last 2 posts sure sound more upbeat and it gave me the strong feeling that he has begun the Road to Recovery from this mess. Now if he will stop talking so much about the OW and the job in Texas - I think you'll both move forward a lot faster. We're going to keep up the prayers for you and also about that upcoming job interview in St. Louis.
Harold

Am I crazy or can I get some comfort from Randy? When he is gone, I am all jitters!
It is like the nightmare of knowing that he is with someone all over again. But this time, in my mind I know that they had slept together! Obviously he is not with someone else but it is like a flash back!
I cannot go into public without something reminding me of what happened! So, to finish what I was starting out with. I was in line and of course, I heard that song that I love but can't listen to it, "When you lie next to me!" I was praying that my youngest would start to scream and throw a tantrum so I could block it out! But he didn't! I could not hold back the tears and I came home and called Randy! I had told him what had happened and he said he would call me back in a couple of hours to discuss this!
I just want to be comforted and wanted to know that he really wants to work on us! But he called back, I got the third degree! I am totally trusting him with my feelings and he is shooting them down! This is why I could not say or do before he left for Texas. I would keep them in and somehow retaliate in some other way! I know now not to do that! But that is why I had built this wall around myself because I can't stand to be hurt!
I need reassurance and I am not getting any! He is the only one that can help me! Please tell me if I am wrong! He just doesn't get it! I love him so much but I can't stand to be stepped on especially if I am being sincere! And especially by him!
He says he wants to work on our M. But how when he puts a time limit when it is my turn to talk??? He says to me in a very mean manner, "OK what are we looking at? Are we going to stay up until 12:30/1:00 am"!!!? Funny, that "Thing" would come over after a long days work at 3 in the morning and they would screw and talk! She would leave at 5 in the morning! OK for her but no time made for me. I am just not that important to him. I listen to him the other night about how that "thing" did him wrong for two hours! And he won't take the time out to help "fix" us! He says he can't because he is still hurting! This hurt should have never happened in the first place! I am fully aware that it did! But gee's, he said he wants to work on the marriage, why isn't he? I am being put on hold again! I have to wait until a perfect job comes along or when he is in the mood!
OK please forgive me because I am getting angry! I am sorry, but I have had enough of this crap! He is getting the idea from somewhere that he is allowed to feel this pain!
I am sorry but I cannot condone what he had done! I have no empathy for him! He expects me to have it and be patient with him! AHHH NO! When, I knew about the affair in February, I begged him to stop! I think I have been patient for too long now! And this pain that he is feeling, he did this to himself!
I am so torn in my feelings! I am hurting so bad! I still don't know where to go with the pain! I just want to crawl under my comforter and sleep the days away until my thoughts give me something better! My kids are the only thing that is making me go and the every now and then hope that he gives me!
I am reading Surviving an affair but I am not getting much out of it! It is not the same by the MB founder. I think I might be in a fog!
He has no clue to the pain I am in! None what so ever! I am a firm believer that actions speak loader than words! A whole lot of talking and no actions to be supporting it! I forgot who said it but the BS's usually are the ones stronger than the WS!
I printed out a lot of Plan A. My son used it as coloring paper and I can't get back to that link! Can someone give me that link again! I need to reread and reevaluate things.
Am I missing the boat??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Ali

Triggers, those nasty little reminders of the A that occur when you LEAST expect them to. Now you know of another one, more will come. They subside in time. Sometimes to be replaced by others. I think it gets better.

It may have been me that told Randy it's OK to feel his pain. But I also told him it's NOT OK to inflict it on you, talk about it, even bring up the subject, unless you say it's OK.

OK, Ali, time for you to tell Randy what you need from him. Don't need time limits, your love is timeless, don't need rehashing of his hurt...that's what this forum is for, to protect the people around you, yet let your feelings out.
What else? Make a list. Let him in on how he can help you get over this. Ask him what he needs. You can then tell each other what you can and can't do for each other (like listen for 2 hours about pain from getting dumped). YOu both need help to overcome the pain. You acn't always rely on each other, that's what this is for, but you can ask more clearly of each other for what you want.

Pardon my fingers, I think faster than I type.

Hey Ali88! I'm really sorry to hear how he's treating you and this situation. Saying stuff like 'How long we staying up this time, 1am?' etc. is not justified - it's SARCASM and sarcasm is a serious major LOVEBUSTER! He needs to get that now. He sounds to me like he's doing a lot of talking (good) but he's not allowing you time to talk (not good). If anything, YOU should be doing most of the talking - after all, you were the one betrayed and somehow RandyR is not understanding this - he keeps focusing on what he lost in Texas and how he got dumped - now as a guy I can state that his 'male ego' has gotten bruised and he can't stand it. He is not being fair and equitable to you to allow you time to talk and especially when he talks for a long time about what happened to him, how he feels, etc. What about how YOU feel??! He needs to spend more time LISTENING to you as well. I am sure you give him ample time to vent - and you need equal time. Tell him we said so!!! I'm sure everyone here posting would agree to that.
PS - Here is that Plan A LinK you asked for: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html
More prayers needed and you both certainly have them from me!
Harold

I just feel like venting!
I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM! I can't understand why he said he felt so guilty about what he was doing. he said he felt slimy and dirty! But..... he kept on going back! Do any of you really believe he felt guilty? He knew in February that I knew about his A. I begged him to stop!I was hysterical and asked him why? I was so numb by that time that I was in such denial that I was in a fog myself! I was like a robot!
I saw a women that kinda looked liked her today! Same wrinkles around the mouth, same height & almost the exact hair cut! I wanted to stare her down and punch her! God! This is making me crazy!
I look at him in my memory of when he was cheating on me and I get so angry! And what gets me more angry, the fact he feels so sorry for himself! He is a jerk! This is what happens to me when I go into public!
Yes, little reminders are every where! And that song "Picture" Kid Rock and Sheryl Crow. He said that song reminded him of us! hummm, I wonder why?
OK must make dinner!
Ali
By the way, I tried telling him what I needed from him and he says that he is still hurting from being dumped and the job loss! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> In other words, So what that if he hurt me, he needs to grieve! [censored]! Never mind my feelings!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> rrrrrr!

Ali88 I really am sorry he's continuing to do this to you. So basically, he's putting HIMSELF in front of you again! That is a major LoveBuster and he needs to realize that. His male ego is a major problem here - from what he's telling you. Somehow, we gotta make him see that he needs to LOSE that ego and place your marriage before his ego - until he realizes that and acts on it, he is going to continue to spin his wheels and go round and round in circles.
Harold

HELP!!!!!!!
Why am I torturing myself right now? TLC has a special regarding crop circles. I Love TLC, The Discovery Channel and especially Animal Planet!
Jeff Corwin and Steve Irwin, My heroes! But anyway, Randy and that "ugly thing" rented out the movie Signs with Mel Gibson, a movie that I wanted to see! But anyway, I just envision them having the movie on but not really watching it! A total make out session that leads in to sex! GOD! I can't take this anymore!!!
How do you all stop the envisions! I am a fractured and a disfigured person right now who doesn't know what to do right now!
I have experienced death but at least it is closure! I am constantly reminded by the horror of what he did to our marriage! I know I am repeating myself a lot! I am not sure where I am going!
Randy is a person who (believe it) has a lot to offer! This person that we are seeing unfortunately is the person that is taking up so much energy and sorts from Randy's good qualities. We are seeing a droid!
I just miss what I was to him! I was so easily replaced! I told him that his low self esteem could have been one of the reasons why he cheated on me! I could have completely filled his Love Bank, but honestly, I think he felt so low about himself that this "thing" seduced him. She saw a sucker! Someone that was lonely and needed a "friend"! We all know she used him! But he should have stopped right there! That is a compliment that some one other than your wife finds you desirable! He has a lot of women that flirt with him. You would think OK I am attractive but my heart belongs to my wife! Nope not him!
What I am mostly upset about is that he had a wife that loved him unconditionally and was going to stick it out no matter what the out come was. I believed in him! I know what qualities lie in Randy and I was being patient until he found his nitch again! He made two bad career choice. I told him; "Put Michael Jordan on the basketball court you have a champion. You take him out and put him on a baseball field and he goes from basketball superstar to a laughing joke! From majors to minors! Talk about an ego bust! In other words, Randy went out of his area and tried something new, he bombed! He made a risk! Unfortunately he didn't do what he expected of himself! Next job came, he tried it because he went five months of being unemployed. He felt useless and this was a great company. I am sure we all been there! He was in the Logistics end of it and it was not like and what he was used to! He didn't have a snowball chance in hell as a good honest friend of ours said!
I supported him, I felt the pain that he was going through. I helped him again, I was pregnant and had a newborn at the time of the loses! I was adjusting to being a mother of one to a mother of two! I stayed strong and kept him motivated!
I have no idea why I am justifying his actions! But all I know is that I am hurting and I can't stand living from day to day! My feelings are interfering with my daily routine and I can't function! I thought he was my other half who loved me! I am now nothing to him! Just replaced by a nasty little slut that is ruining more marriages I am sure!
I hate him for not being strong enough. I hate him for not remembering how much I loved him! I hate him for not stopping when he knew it was wrong! I hate him because he did not think of our sons. I hate him because he was extremely selfish! He knew I was staying back supporting him and his decision until we could comfortably move down there!
HELP ME! So getting back, why am I torturing myself with these thoughts and images?
The rage is becoming unbearable! Is this normal?
Ali <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hi Ali88! Yes, the rage is normal - you're in the Anger Phase of recovery. It sucks, it's no fun, but it will pass. And RandyR's staying stuck on what HE feels instead of listening to you and what you feel is making this worse! Is there any way you can somehow get him to see that. His Male Ego is seriously hamstringing your Recovery.
JMHO - I know I don't have all the answers, but this is my take on this matter.
How about some help here?
Harold
I know so much good solid advice has been posted by so many of you. Maybe someone could re-word this in a way that might get RandyR's attention? He's having attention deficit problems again. And please, keep up the prayers for this couple, OK?
Sincerely, Harold