I would like to know something from the group.

1) WHY ARE SOME PEOPLE IN LIFE ABLE TO SUSTAIN AN AFFAIR FOR YEARS WITHOUT ANY GUILTY CONSCIENCE TO THEIR SPOUSE??

2) HOW CAN YOU WALK AROUND IN LIFE KNOWING THAT YOU CONTRIBUTED TO A MARRIAGE THAT IS FAILING BECAUSE YOU HAD AN AFFAIR??? IN OTHER WORDS, THE OW IS WALKING AROUND WITHOUT A SINGLE CARE IN THE WORLD????

Had I EVER known the pain would be so great that our marriage would be going through the torment everyday, I would not have done it!!!!

EVERYDAY IS A NIGHTMARE!!!!

MY WIFE'S PAIN IT NOT EASING AND WHAT MAKES IT WORSE IS THAT WHEN WE TALK...IT BRINGS UP OLD WOUNDS......

PS) THE OW WENT BACK TO HER HUSBAND!!!!

1) why in the hades do you still care? do you understand that by dwelling forever on ow you are losing your wife?

2)how can you walk around without a care in the world while your wife and marriage is suffering?

gosh, you are not listening to what anyone says, why people are still trying to reach you is beyond me. you'd rather sit around and cry about what you did TO YOURSELF than to work on improving anything. would you like some cheese with that whine?

you lost your job not because of your affair, but because you acted like a two year old running to his mom to complain that someone wasn't nice to you. and now that you're reaping what you've sown, you expect your wife to be understanding? well, she is understanding. she understands that you'd rather play the poor me victim than to understand that the hurt to your wife (and yourself) was not caused by ow, BUT BY YOU! you did this all by yourself, she was merely a tool.

get over it! stop squealing about how good it was because it wasn't good enough to stop you from throwing it all away in a fit of pique. you lost it all on your own, and if you find your manhood in your job, you have bigger problems than your cheating.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1) WHY ARE SOME PEOPLE IN LIFE ABLE TO SUSTAIN AN AFFAIR FOR YEARS WITHOUT ANY GUILTY CONSCIENCE TO THEIR SPOUSE?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because they missed the boat on empathy. They feel no remorse because they are incapable of putting themselves in someone else's shoes. They feel entitled to have what they want, when they want it, without any regard for how their actions may affect someone else.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2) HOW CAN YOU WALK AROUND IN LIFE KNOWING THAT YOU CONTRIBUTED TO A MARRIAGE THAT IS FAILING BECAUSE YOU HAD AN AFFAIR??? IN OTHER WORDS, THE OW IS WALKING AROUND WITHOUT A SINGLE CARE IN THE WORLD????
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do YOU walk around in life knowing that you contributed to a marriage that is failing because you had an affair? And you'll have your answer.

As for what the OW is doing...you have no clue if she is hurting or not. Yes, she moved on to another MM, but it would seem that she has some very serious issues of her own which she's unwilling to face. While the end of your affair may or may not be causing her any pain, you are focusing on HER...NOT you and your W.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EVERYDAY IS A NIGHTMARE!!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And it will continue to be for a very long time! Do you have the courage to face the results of your actions? Do you have the strength of commitment to stand beside your W and help her heal? Do you have enough love to share with your W; to put her needs before your own?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> MY WIFE'S PAIN IT NOT EASING AND WHAT MAKES IT WORSE IS THAT WHEN WE TALK...IT BRINGS UP OLD WOUNDS...... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is no time table on this. It will take a long time for her pain to ease, and and even longer time for her to trust you again. Accept it. You caused this pain, you will have to be the one that is patient with her getting past the pain. You will have to be patient with her lack of trust in you. Accept it.

As far as what X OW does, - WHO REALLY CARES - HER HUSBAND, HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO SHOULD CARE WHAT SHE DOES. YOU SHOULD NOT CARE OR WANT TO KNOW.

You can help your wife, by not caring what OW does.

Randy - what will be your wake up call, when you lose your Wife.

<small>[ May 19, 2003, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

Hi Randy,

I forgot to mention - you are welcome here.

If you want your M to work, feeling sorry for youself is not the way to do it. Everyone here want to help.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RANDYRAIL:
<strong>I would like to know something from the group.

1) WHY ARE SOME PEOPLE IN LIFE ABLE TO SUSTAIN AN AFFAIR FOR YEARS WITHOUT ANY GUILTY CONSCIENCE TO THEIR SPOUSE?? **Simple. The same way that Hitler slaughtered over 6 Million Jewish people and went to bed every night and slept like a baby. He had NO conscience at all - it had been 'seared with a hot iron'. What conscience??**

2) HOW CAN YOU WALK AROUND IN LIFE KNOWING THAT YOU CONTRIBUTED TO A MARRIAGE THAT IS FAILING BECAUSE YOU HAD AN AFFAIR??? IN OTHER WORDS, THE OW IS WALKING AROUND WITHOUT A SINGLE CARE IN THE WORLD???? **See Question 1 - Ms. Slutbucket has NO conscience! None whatsoever! She'll get hers soon enough. Stop worrying about her! She's a LOSER!!!!!!!!**

Had I EVER known the pain would be so great that our marriage would be going through the torment everyday, I would not have done it!!!! **Evil always looks pretty good - until you do it. That is what temptation is all about. Read the Book of Proverbs about 'the strange woman' and you'll see how HER HOUSE LEADS TO HELL and THE PATHS OF THE DEAD. You have taken fire in your lap and you were burned.**

MY WIFE'S PAIN IT NOT EASING AND WHAT MAKES IT WORSE IS THAT WHEN WE TALK...IT BRINGS UP OLD WOUNDS...... **Please go back to Ali88's thread and read my response I posted just a few minutes ago, RandyR.**

PS) THE OW WENT BACK TO HER HUSBAND!!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Harold

<small>[ May 20, 2003, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: TheNoteBookDude ]</small>

Lord, I'd sure hate to know what kind of GUTLESS HENPECKED WUSS YELLOW-BELLY PIECE OF WORTHLESS CRAP HE IS! (Ms. Slutbucket's husband, that is)
Harold.

Gee … He is not any different than any of the BS here who are working to restore their marriages. So does that make all of us all GUTLESS HENPECKED (or rosterpecked) WUSS YELLOW-BELLY PIECES OF WORTHLESS?

Does that make Randy’s wife one too? It seems to me that he is as much at fault as and acted as badly as Ms. Slutbuckets. Shall we call Randy Mr. Slutpants?

I find it amusing in a sick sort of way that Randy sees OW as being so much more immoral than he sees himself as being. It’s just not so. They both cheated on their spouses. Sure she followed up with another affair with another married man… but it all blurs together as one affair. To argue that she is worse then he for this is for the pot and pan to argue which is blacker.

I sure would like to see the focus here change from vilifying the Ms. Slutbuckets and now her husband. She does that well enough on her own. Bringing her constantly into this discussion is very disturbing because it means that Randy is obsessing. Let’s not help him do that.

Zorweb, you're right. I apologize for the names, I tend to get upset when I see the continuing damage that affairs cause. It destroyed my first marriage. Because of the one I had, and even though I've remarried, I'll pay for this for the rest of my life - and it's a stupid move I will regret for the rest of my life.
I was only referring to OW's husband - in response to RandyR stating about how she seems to just waltz around like nothing ever happened and how her husband is taking her back after what she's done - knowing his wife has just had 2 Affairs on him back-to-back... I guess nobody here will ever know WHAT is going on in their house, as I don't believe she's a member of Marriage-Builders. But I can bet it's not pretty... I also am saddened by how his wife has been so upset as to actually pick up the phone and call this OW - only to get upset even more.
It really is a tragedy - and a continuing one at that - how the Other Person (man or woman) KNOWS what they are doing to a Marriage, yet they enter the Affair anyway. It really is sad.
I withdraw the ugly names I put on this Thread.
Sincerely, Harold

The affair and the damage/hurt that it has done is so strong and so overpowering that any happiness we are to experience right now is useless. Even compliments become "washed away" as both my wife and I struggle to even communicate to eachother at night. It is not a happy roof that we live under in Illinois.

I met a friend in McAllen while I was living my "fantasy" life. He saw a picture of my wife yesterday as Ali scanned it to him over the weekend. The motive was pretty obvious as my wife has such a terrible self esteem right now. (I wonder why.

My friend, who met the OW in February stated, "Randy, what the hell were you thinking??" Your wife is gorgeous!!!

Despite these comments, my wife is unmoved. In fact, it causes more pain. And then we have nighttime.....

Last night, my wife stated that she is going ahead to file for divorce. I really don't blame her. With the new job, I leave before 5am and get home at 7-8pm sometimes later. Sometimes I don't come home at all as I am staying at her parents becuase the drive is over 90 minutes, one way. Ohhh and the group shuld know this now....I am drinking now. More than I ever have. I have to stop that!!!!

Nighttime is the worst. Alli and I have lost so much weight now. I use to work out and be active. Now I feel like doing nothing. Alli looks great right now!!! I have never seen her look so good. But I know she is not eating and she, like me is not sleeping.

At nighttime, thoughts race through my head of the job that I loved/lost and the people who I really loved working with. YOU PEOPLE ON MARRIAGE BUILDERS THAT CONTINUE TO SAY "GET OVER IT!!" have no clue what it is like to go through life unhappy becuase of bad career moves for 5+ years. You have no idea of the pain and the disappointment in your spouses eyes when you have just been fired.

The position in Texas made me feel important, alive and surrounding me with people that respected and liked me. "Find another job" is what you say. Well, I guess that will 5+ years again.

"I DID THIS TO MYSELF"........Well, the affair ended any hopes I had of becoming successful and becoming important to not only myself but in my wifes eyes. You see for me, when I look into Alli, all I have ever seen for the past 5+ years has been disappointment and hurt.

And with the affair, the pain is unbearable.

No wonder as to why both Alli and I have such resentment and anger towards the OW.

YES!!!! I TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HAVING THE AFFAIR....DON'T YOU DARE WRITE BACK AND SAY OTHERWISE!!!!

But how could anyone just walk away after destroying a career and marriage of someone elses without a guilty conscience????

NOW YOU KNOW WHY REVENGE COMES INTO OUR HEARTS.

I AM GUILTY OF DESTROYING EVERY LITTLE THING LEFT OF US!!!

THE OTHER WOMAN DID NOT DESTROY YOUR CAREER, YOU DID!!!! all by your little self in a childish fit of temper, it was you all you so quit your whining about what a victim of evil ow you are! you went in eager and willing to commit adultery and then when you get dumped you go crying to your boss about the ow and rightfully get fired. it was you who chose infidelity, it was you who chose to write a letter to the boss, IT WAS YOU WHO DID THIS TO YOURSELF! nobody else, and your refusal to see this proves that you are still not taking responsibility!

much easier to point the finger at the ow and shriek it was all her than to realize it was all you, with some help from her. and as for how she could just walk away after destroying a marriage, news flash! your marriage isn't over, YET. but it will be if you can't accept your part in your own destruction and continue to mope on what you lost. you did not lose it, you threw it away with both hands the same way you did your wife!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Hi RandyR! Hi Ali88! Granted, as to your last post, I understand and I believe everyone agrees that you two are both hurting and that you do have security, self-esteem and other issues. Emotions are going to be on a rollercoaster for some time.
Just one question and please I am sure everyone posting here would like to hear it from you:
"Are you both in Marriage Counseling?" Those folks are professionals. They can and will help - it's their job to help.
Have you begun reading some of Dr. Harley's books or other Christian Marriage Books?
Did you click the Link on Dr. Harley's articles about 'surviving an affair and plan a/b?'
Please do these things.
PS - Drinking can be fun - in moderation. Please do NOT use it for an 'escape hatch' - it won't work! It is just adding more problems to the ones you already have.
Sincerely, Harold
PS - C'mon, RandyR it's NOT gonna take you 5 years to find that killer job! You gotta give yourself more credit than that!!! Maybe 5 weeks but Cheez - 5 years? I don't think so!

my god you are arrogant! no nobody has any clue what it's like to go through life unhappy because of bad career choices. hey, the fact that i got pregnant at 17 and had to drop out of college to become a mother couldn't possibly have affected me! i guess, like you, i could sit around and blame the child (or other woman) but i'm mature enough to realize that it was MY actions that caused this, and it will be my actions that decide where i go from there.

again, it was not the affair that cost you your job, it was your choices! do you honestly think your wife is filing for divorce because you don't see her much? let me say again, i've been there. my husband is navy and used to work 2 hours one way from where we lived, and yet managed to make it each night he didn't have to stay aboard. now he's been gone since january and won't be back until june. difference here is i know my husband respects me, and i feel safe with him.

your wife does not feel safe right now. why should she? you took a job and a mistress that feed your ego, while your wife was busy working, taking care of kids, upkeep with the house, and trying to survive with no help from you. while you were running around playing big papa, she was in hades trying to hold the family together. and now that your fun fantasy fling is over, you can't get why she doesn't want to hear of your pain? where were you all those months when she was suffering? oh yeah, you were off with another woman!

sooner or later, you really need to cancel the pity party and wake up to the fact that once again, it is you driving away something good. i'll bet if she does leave you, you'll spend the rest of forever complaining to all about how you were willing to work on marriage but she left. you are clearly still not thinking rationally, or you'd get off your victim box and realize you are your own worst enemy!

Randy, I never been disappointed at you for your job loss (besides texas) I saw the pain in your eyes and felt horrible knowing what it did too you! You are so self centered thinking that I am upset at you because of what happened before texas! Can you give me more credit? The world does not revolve around you! We are not here to serve you!
You told me that you would go back to the affectinate person that you used to be. Did you mark it in your planner for June 28, 2004? A magic fairy is not going to come down and make it all better. You have to work on us too! When I feel like working you push me away! That is why I don't see you wanting to make this work! I don't want to play these foolish games anymore!
I am hurt because of how your through my love for you for some ugly "thing"!
I am not sure what you are exactly hurting over? Because you are showing no remorse over me! OHHH, I get it! It is the hoB*tch! And notebook Dude, Her husband is all of that! He was seeing other people as well and they are filing for divorce and was condoning what she was doing! They are only together because they can't find anyone right now to ruin a marriage! As for Randy, Do you think Randy is doing that to me? Nobody to run to, so he will settle for me????
Ali

You Randy are letting the slut control you! You are the one that is inflicting more pain to me! By walking around not caring about me, not having any sympathy for me, no compassion for what you did to me, you are basically telling me, you don't want me anymore!
I am crying again! But do you care????? No, all you can think of is her! Why? You are letting her win! She took your heart away from me and is abusing it without her even knowing it!
I want to know where I come in? I don't want to make a wrong choice but I am devastated! Again, if I ever did this to you, I would be kissing your butt to make it right again. I would put all my feelings on the back burner and focus on you! But you are not doing that! So I wonder, why tell me that you love me and not show any feelings for me?
I am confused! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Not the way you want me to. Please, let's end the circle!
Divorce me. I can't go anywhere, you can't go anywhere we cannot divorce so
we will be unhappy.

I am just a shell of a person right now. Since Texas, I have not been
able to recover. If you leave me and stay with your parents for a few
weeks, I am sure I will continue walking around like I am now. I am
depressed. I am emotionally "not there". How can I work on us when I am
not there.

You have known since day one of our relationship how hard I work. I worked
so hard in Texas only to be let go with no "thanks" no, please keep in
touch no nothing.

MY GOD.......I AM STILL CRYING..........

CAN YOU LEAVE ME FOR JUST A WEEK OR TWO..........

LET ME GRIEVE THE WAY I WANT TO.................

Randyrail,
I hear your pain. I hear your anger. I feel and ache for you and your wife. There have been bad mistakes made. There have been horrible things that have happened. Affairs happen, jobs get lost, marriages end, people die and life goes on. You are at the edge right now. You and your wife. Teetering on the brink of two things:

1. Ending your M and trying to heal yourselves apart, trying to end the pain (it won't), trying to get over the loss of the A, the job, and the failure of your M. (kids too?)

2. Or, you can swallow all of the hurt, the pride, the pain, the shattered promises. It is in your hands right now, you and Ali88, to decide that this, right now, is your chance to own up to the mistakes, bow your head and ask forgiveness, forget any revenge or one-up on OW-she is for the devil to deal with, and thank the good Lord that she is not part of your life anymore. You have the power right now to fix your life. To make ammends and start on the path to do right. It is so easy.

How can you do all this??? Call Steve Harley today, or get your own MC, bury the pain, decide that your M is what you want and WORK on it. Rebuild it. It is not too late. It can save you, you and Ali88. It might seem to late, but it isn't. YOu can salvage the M and have a better M than you ever dreamed of. There is something still there, I can hear it in the both of you.

Randy, do you want to be married to Ali88???

Heavens

I think RandyR is one confused man. He is just sitting there feeling bad about what he did. Remorse is a good thing - but he's overdoing it! He knows he made a mistake, and he knows what he needs to do to 'survive this affair' and he knows his wife loves him, although she is shattered and hurting - and he just sits there! He needs to realize that until HE takes that first step, not much is going to change, other than his wife has just about had it with him...
Randy, you got tons of fantastic advice on this Thread as well as the other one. Please follow it or at least let us know why you think you don't need to do anything to heal your Marriage.
Your wife is looking to YOU to lead the way - her self-esteem has been trashed and you are letting it stay trashed. Your wife needs CHERISHING, TREASURING, NURTURING and REASSURING. She's waiting for you to begin.
The ball is in YOUR court now, RandyR.....
We can post advice all day till we're blue in the face and our fingers fall off, but it's not worth one penny unless YOU take that first step on your Journey to healing and restoring your Marriage.
Harold

with all due respect notebookdude, i believe you are mistaken. randy is not feeling remorse due to what he's done, he's feeling bad that he doesn't get to live in fantasyland anymore. but instead of taking responsibility for what he's done, and trying to change, he spends post after post, day after day, using all his energy to obsess on how he was wronged by evil vixen. his continued refusal to see himself as the main cause of his wife's pain says to me he's still way to thick in the fog to even care about how he's making his wife feel.

notice in his latest drama about how he was "let go", still not accepting the fact that he got himself fired, he wasn't let go! he chose to strike out in a juvenile manner and instead of facing the fact that he did wrong, he chooses to say many, many times that SHE is to blame for loss of his career.

instead of working on his marriage, he prefers to walk around moping and shrieking about how he's been robbed of his dreams. he expects for his wife to be so understanding of his complaints, while completely ignoring the fact that ali may be feeling like her soul has been violated! he's chosen to dwell on how bad the other woman is as a way of hiding from what he's done to her all by himself.

there are so many kind hearted people here trying so hard to help, some have even been there. but he doesn't want to hear it, all he wants is for someone to tell him that he's doing fine. after all he's no longer sleeping with ow, so what if he STILL hasn't let her go and continues to rub his wife's face in it?

his refusal to accept responsibility for himself and the consequences of his own actions will render him incapable of working on his marriage at this time. as long as it's all the fault of the satanic slut that ruined his poor life, he'll never be able to move on.

Ya know, I would never condone an A of any kind, but I think something is being over looked here. I doubt that Randy got up one morning and decided to cheat on Ali. Granted he did make some very hugh mistakes and moving to Texas was one of them. But I think we need to take the clock back a bit further. What made him feel like going to TX was better than staying where he was?

I've been reading her posts ever since she started posting a while back. You know what I see? I see her as a very hurt person, and she has every right to be, she was betrayed. However, I see something else. I see the way she seem to treat Randy. If I were Randy, I doubt that I would feel very safe around her. So it makes me wonder if Randy felt very safe with her before he decided to go to TX. I wonder if he ever got any respect from her or if he was just someone she could walk all over and keep under her thumb all the time. She doesn't even seem to try to understand what role she might have played in the destruction of their M before he left for TX. I don't see her telling Randy that she is partially to blame for not thinking about his feelings the A. Every time he seems to try to get passed the hurt he has caused, she's there to beat him down. It's like he's going through the process of getting out of the hole and she just wants to push him back down in it so she continues to have control over him.

Randy does have a process to go through to get to a postion to be strong enough to work on the M. So Ali, let him go through the process, you cannot set the time table for him to get over the loss of a job and of someone he was close to and had feelings for. Yes he had feelings for her! It wasn't right, but he had feelings for her. Your kicking him isn't going to help him get through the fog and come back to you. I will only keep him distant from you.

So, not only does Randy have to get past the feelings and out of the fog, you need to tell him with, no uncertainty, that you want him back. Then you have to start treating him like you want him back and stop bringing up the A. It's over it's past and it can't be undone. However, it can be forgiven. It shouldn't be forgotten, because you both don't want to go down this road again. You want to figure out what caused all of this and not repeat the same mistakes. The A wasn't the cause. Things were probably bad before the A. You need to go back that far. Both of you need to take a very good hard look at yourselves, and ask what did I do wrong in all of this?

kristawny, you aren't helping them either. You are not offering anything constructive to help their relationship. All you seem to want to do is make Randy feel like he's two inches tall, not worth anything. I don't know why you've seem to have taken this one personally; maybe it's touched an nerve regarding your own problems, I couldn't tell cause I haven't read your story. But if all you're going to do is throw venom at Randy, you need to know it's not constructive for them. We want to build up their M not tear it down.

I might get flamed here for saying all of this, but if you look at all of the examples the Harley's give us in their books, there is always underlying reasons for some one to stray. That is where it the problem is not the A itself. The A was just a symptom.

BTW - I am a BS and I know how much you hurt Ali. But I am also in recovery. We didn't get there by me bashing my W whenever she was sad and going through withdrawal for OM. If I didn't let her go through the process, she'd be with him right now, I know it for sure.

Try to show some compassion for each other please. You are both in a deep pit and you will need each other to get out. Will you help each other or not?
I hope you will.

S&C

I won't flame anyone on these boards - there has been enuff of that by Wandering Spouses. I feel that everyone on this thread and the other one by RandyR - everyone here has been most respectful, offered loads of advice and genuinely tried to help this hurting couple. I was trying to see the best in RandyR. I try to see the best in his wife; however, I will add this to what I've already posted regarding them: they are a couple in serious trouble - both BEFORE and AFTER he went to Texas for that job! Marriage Counseling and/or Mediation is needed YESTERDAY for them. I cannot emphasize this enough.
I don't know what else to add to this other than that. RandyR needs to get over what he did and turn to his Wife, take her hand, ask forgiveness and step out on their Journey of healing and recovery.
Nothing else I can say will make much difference other than that. I believe Randy is just ignoring our advice. That's his right and everyone's freedom - take it or leave it. However, for his sake, his wife's sake, their children's sake, and their Marriage - I sincerely HOPE he takes it!!!!
Harold