I think some "things" are starting to hit me at once now and it is my wife that is contributing to some of the depression advancements that I have been going through.

Of Course my wife does not want me to mope, on the contrary she is the one that should be going through the depression. I cheated. I am scum and I do realize or I think I do that the woman I had the affair with was a real pro. She knew what she was doing.

She had been divorced already and was going through a second divorce. She stated while the affair was happening that her husband treated her badly. But the way our affair ended, especially when she threatened to call my wife and when she threatened to tell work about my work history past, (She worked in HR)I was shocked at how evil she could become.

Her second husband had a friend that lived on my floor in the apartment complex next door. I remember him talking about her (the woman) and how awful of a person she was.

I remember her children (ages 3 and 5) waking up in the middle of the morning and asking to come into the bedroom. I WAS KICKED OUT!! I remember she was never with her children with the exception of 2-3 hours a day because she worked out out every night after work.

And I remember her voice which sounded so evil the afternoon she left a message on my phone saying "Don't talk to me, don't look at me...etc".
MY GOD.....SHE WORKED IN HUMAN RESOURCES!!! HOW THE HELL WAS I TO GET ANY INFORMATION FROM HER???

What pains me is that she was not like this at all during the "affair". She knew what to get, how to get it and how to put up a great act.

And when she got what she wanted and someone else started paying attention to her, she left me and went straight for him.

I was used, abused and now, I am left trying to put the pieces together of our marriage/broken dreams.

WHY WAS I TAKEN FOR A RIDE?????????

WHY CAN'T I EVER "EVEN UP THE SCORE??""

She was a pro. Divorced twice, 2 affairs with two married men.........she knew what she was doing.

You know what???? The grieving has turned into hatred.

Alright now, put it behind you. YOU made a stupid mistake. Do you really think you are the first in history that has been used? Do you want hatred for this woman to consume your thoughts, and your effort today? Just recognize the affair was a bad thing, it was never real love or anything that could last. And then ask yourself – WHAT AM I GOING TO DO NOW?

One of the basic differences behind the Marriage Builder program vs conventional counseling is that the Harley’s don’t spend a lot of time looking backwards. Recognize that the affair was caused by unmet needs, hurt, or not spending time with your spouse. That the basic Rules of Care, Protection, Honesty and Time were not engrained in your marriage. Put “no contact” in place, and then make a commitment to move forward in repairing your marriage. If you don’t do that, then my recommendation to Alli would be to give serious consideration to Plan B. Because she is going to need to protect her Love Bank from the damage being done to you indecisiveness. I’m not playing favorites, and I’m sure she knows she needs to do some work on this marriage too. But, from personal experience, I can safely say that an indecisive/noncommitted spouse will drain her Love Bank to the point that all she is going to have strength to do is hire the nastiest divorce lawyer she can find, and rake you over the coals. Because if she doesn’t protect that Love Bank, or if you’re not actively making deposits, then her feelings for you are going nowhere but South very quickly.

On the good side, at least you are recognizing that the woman was not some dreamboat, and that she had flaws. But your whining (yep, it’s whining) about how you were swindled by a pro, or how you were cheated – well – grow up. You were tempted, and you fell for it. Some might say you showed your true character. Is that true? Or was this just a big mistake, and you can be an honest, committed person again?

Stop worrying about “evening the score.” As long as you keep ignoring your marriage that is hemorrhaging, the other woman is still beating you. Show her she was wrong about you. Show her what a real catch you can be. Show your wife what a great man, husband and father you can be. Quit looking back, and start looking forward. Now.

P

Taken for a ride??? It takes two to participate....regardless if this woman looked unbelievable or actually turned out to be a biaatch....who cares? You had and affair...it doesnt matter if she was a pro or not. You just did the grass is greener thing....period. Have a good one.

DO YOU REALIZE THAT YOU NEVER ENGAGE IN ANY POST/REPLY ? YOU RAN AWAY TO A DIFFERENT THREAD WHEN YOU DIDN'T GET YOUR REPLY THAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. DO YOU REALIZE THAT YOU GET LESS AND LESS REPLY ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RANDYRAIL:
<strong>WHY CAN'T I EVER "EVEN UP THE SCORE??""</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, you can. Not by drinking yourself a poison rat to kill the RATMEAT but by getting your M in track and live happy & fullfiling M/life with Ali. She failed in her attempt to ruin your life. Right now, her shadow is laughing at you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>You know what???? The grieving has turned into hatred.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the poison of the soul.

Just my 2¢ -rh-

That verse in Proverbs: "The way of the strange woman leads to hell - by her is a man brought to naught and poor. How can a man take fire in his lap and not be burned?"
Randy, I sincerely hope and pray that you will find healing from this and cleave to your Wife. Together, with you both working on this - you can make it work and get back what you once had. You have a wonderful woman who loves you dearly - and I bet she will make you feel far more loved and better than that other HO ever dreamed of. At least your Wife won't USE you.
Just MHO.
Harold

Hi Randy,

Normally I am not this rude to anyone else.

However, your threads constantly consiste of FEEL SORRY FOR ME attittude.

You say you know you did wrong, and then you shift the blame to the OW.

As a BS, I blame my H and the OW, they both had an active role in the A. But when it comes to the marriage part, my H had the ULTIMATE responsibilitly to not be involved. He had a responsibility to to say NO.

My suggestion to you is this

TIME TO GROW UP AND BE A MAN - FACE YOUR DECISION AS A MAN AND OWN UP TO YOUR POOR DECISION MAKING WITHOUT TRYING TO SHIFT THE BLAME TO THE OW. SHE DID NOT SET YOU UP, YOU MADE THE DECISION TO STRAY, SHE WAS THE BAIT, YOU AND YOU ALONE CHOSE TO BITE

STOP FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELF- YOU BROUGHT THIS ON TO YOURSELF

YOUR WIFE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO LIVE WITH YOUR SELF PITY, BE THE MAN SHE THOUGHT SHE MARRIED

IF YOU HAVE NOT FOUND A JOB YET, GET ONE, ANY JOB, PULL YOUR WEIGHT. ANY PAYCHECK IS BETTER THAN NO PAYCHECK. TAKE SOME OF THE BURDEN OFF YOUR WIFE, SHE IS YOUR WIFE, NOT YOUR MOTHER.

If you were one of my sons don't behave this way.

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

Maybe RR bailed on this Thread too???
Harold <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I think some "things" are starting to hit me at once now and it is my wife that is contributing to some of the depression advancements that I have been going through.

What? Your wife cannot make you depressed. If you are you choose to be depressed. The way you respond to anything she does is totally in your control. Get some counseling.

Of Course my wife does not want me to mope, on the contrary she is the one that should be going through the depression. I cheated. I am scum and I do realize or I think I do that the woman I had the affair with was a real pro. She knew what she was doing.

Cute trick…. Your wife is making you depressed, you had an affair but it’s all the OW’s fault. Sorry that’s not acting like a man. You will serve yourself better if you forget the anger at the OW and work on yourself and your marriage.

the way our affair ended, especially when she threatened to call my wife and when she threatened to tell work about my work history past, (She worked in HR)I was shocked at how evil she could become.

Were you making promises to her and then she realized that you were lying to her too? She should have called your wife, you wife had the right to know that she was being screwed over by both you and the OW. As for your work history… ah, this is not looking good for you. Did you lie to get your job too?

Her second husband had a friend that lived on my floor in the apartment complex next door. I remember him talking about her (the woman) and how awful of a person she was.

Ok let’s pick on the OW so you don’t have to take responsibility for your own actions. Seems that you have not been a very nice person either.. perhaps it’s a case of the kettle calling the pot black?

I remember her children (ages 3 and 5) waking up in the middle of the morning and asking to come into the bedroom. I WAS KICKED OUT!!

You should have been kicked out. Those children did not need to see their mother in bed with a man she is not married to, especially not a married man. You should not have been there in the first place. You have a real problem.

I remember she was never with her children with the exception of 2-3 hours a day because she worked out out every night after work.

Ask yourself why this makes her a bad mother now. When you were with her it did not bother you one bit did it? As a matter of fact, you took up precious time she could have been with her children for yourself. Again you are vilifying her instead of looking at yourself.

And I remember her voice which sounded so evil the afternoon she left a message on my phone saying "Don't talk to me, don't look at me...etc".

Get real, not wanting to continue an affair with a married man does not make her evil. Maybe her voice was not so much evil as it was insistent as she was starting to see what you are showing us here.. a very vindictive, mean side of you. Maybe she really just meant for you to leave her alone.

MY GOD.....SHE WORKED IN HUMAN RESOURCES!!! HOW THE HELL WAS I TO GET ANY INFORMATION FROM HER???

You should have thought about that before you had your affair. Remember the old adage.. “Don’t get laid where you get paid.” Your only choice now is to get a new job. You have ruined this one. You ruined it, not her.

What pains me is that she was not like this at all during the "affair". She knew what to get, how to get it and how to put up a great act.

Of course she was not like this during the affair… they never are. Nor were you like what we are seeing of you here during the affair. People put their best selves forward during the early parts of dating and/or affairs. The surprises always come later.

And when she got what she wanted and someone else started paying attention to her, she left me and went straight for him.

What did she get that she wanted? She got what you got, someone to spend time with regardless of who it hurt. Did you really expect fidelity from a woman who thinks that seeing a married man is ok. Especially when you were not being faithful to her... you are still married.

I was used, abused and now, I am left trying to put the pieces together of our marriage/broken dreams.

You were not used and abused. You cheated on your wife with your eyes wide open. With this attitude, do your wife a favor and leave her. She is not a bunch of ‘broken pieces”.

WHY WAS I TAKEN FOR A RIDE?????????

You were not taken for a ride. You willingly entered into an affair. You have now learned what affairs are about; deceit and a lot of pain.

WHY CAN'T I EVER "EVEN UP THE SCORE??""

The score is even for you the and OW, the both of you used each other. Now there is the issue of you evening up the score with your wife. The only person here who did not participate in dishing out tons of hurt.

She was a pro. Divorced twice, 2 affairs with two married men.........she knew what she was doing.

Again turn your focus off the OW and onto yourself. You are everything you are accusing her of being. You have done everything you have accused her of doing. This is called transference. You are putting your self-hatred onto her.

You know what???? The grieving has turned into hatred.

You know what? You scare me.. I fear that you are capable of hurting her. Your anger and hatred is to palatable right now. Please get some help for yourself before you do something stupid.

May I quote something I read somewhere?

"No matter how attractive/handsome someone is - just remember: They were somebody else's PROBLEM before they met you"
Think about it. This 'hot little lady' you went out with was having problems with her husband at one time - he certainly didn't see fit to stay in the relationship.
So then she became YOUR problem when she ditched you for someone else.
She then became HIS problem - resulting in him getting fired.
Whoever she's fooling around with NOW - she is soon going to become their problem...
Do you see where this is leading.
On the Road to Hell, that's where.
Run from an Affair (unless it's with your own Wife!)
Just MHO.
Harold

RR,

I'm sorry for your pain and that of your W, but I have to tell ya... I think it's great that you are in a place where you actually realize what has happened. You wouldn't believe how many WS can't seem to "illigitimize" the A with the realization of what kind of person the OP really was. Not that it "let's you off the hook" (for lack of something more comforting), but at least your eyes are open! Move ahead toward recovery as best you can... step #1... forgive yourself and commit to change. Yours may be a MB success story!

Here is something so good that even the group who can't stand me should be satisfied in knowing!!!

I am now having nightmares (who cares!!) on how horrible I treated my wife when she visited McAllen after XMAS!!!! And do you know why?????

Because I wanted to start seeing the OW!!!

The way I treated my wife was worse than anyone would treat a dog!!!!!!

WHAT THE F#%&CK WAS I DOING????????????????

Randy R, you're back! Good (smiles here). We don't hate you and we certainly aren't of the persuasion that 'we can't stand you' no not at all. So you treated your wife badly, cheated on her, pining away for the OW - OK. We understand that.
BUTT (there's that big butt again!) IT'S OVER! Done with. Finished. Ended.
You have an open road waiting for you to travel down - the Road To Recovery. Take your wife by the hand and begin walking down it! This website is an excellent place to start you two on that Journey. Please GET OVER IT (what you did), MOVE ON, and begin this Journey with your Wife. She loves you, her feelings and world have just been shattered, this all takes time, BUTT - the sooner you begin that Journey with her, the sooner you two will begin healing and rebuilding your Marriage!
Do it today!
We're with you.
We support you.
Just don't give up on your wife and your marriage.
Your Journey begins with ONE STEP.
Take that step TODAY.
You and your dear wife are in MY prayers, Randy R.
May God bless you, your wife, your son, and your Marriage.
A Concerned Friend, Harold

RR,

I'm glad your back.... I'm glad you're starting to question your own behavior in your 20/20 hindsight. But I have to tell ya somethin....

and this may be a difficult thing to wrap your brain around.....

what you had with OW WAS NOT REAL. I know that's so simple and you may even feel that you already understand that... but it takes a while for some to REALLY get that.

here's the good part...

once you're able to illigitimize your fantasy A relationship and see it for the smoke and mirrors it was, you'll be able to FORGIVE yourself,ask your W for forgivness (have you done this yet?) and begin your search for the self discovery you need to avoid it in the furure, thereby recovering what you and your W have lost.

RR, as much as what you have done flusters us, please understand that we all want a happy ending for you and your W.

Please don't run away again. Let us help you.

Dude,

beautiful words! I love reading your posts!

Hi TheLady! Thank you for your wonderful post - it was right on it. Perhaps another re-wording of what you said about RR's relationship with OW being not real:

RR, you were in love with a person who did NOT exist. You loved the IMAGE she showed you - she showed you the REAL HER when she ditched you for that other joker. Talk about somebody screwing someone else over - that girl has got it down to an art! No wonder her other husband left her - he probably got tired of her BS too! Get over it, RR - you were in love with an ACTRESS! She's probably down there in McAllen playing somebody else RIGHT NOW. That show 'Jenny Jones' where they have 'Playas' on there - ha! This girl should definitely be on there: she's got them all beat, hands down!
Remember: No matter how 'good' or 'hot' she seemed... she was SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROBLEM!!!!!!
Turn your back on the past, RandyR - and MOVE FORWARD towards what is ahead - with your Wife!
Harold

Dear Chat Group:

The fact that the OW "was not real" does not ease the pain, the suffering and the betrayal that my wife feels, nor does it change how I felt (past tense) when experiencing the affair.

My wife found out last week that the OW went back to her husband. The same one that she cheated on 2X, the same one who knew about me. The same one she was filing "divorce" from. My wife also found out that the OW is not liked in her office and that the company actually had to put another Manager in her office (share) for room. But everyone at work believes the real reason is so that she be closely monitored.

In any event, I want everyone to know that the affair did more damage than most of you will ever know or can believe. The most damaging was trying to recover to "reality" state. I mean, 8 months by yourself,1500 miles from home, no children, no wife, no bills, no chores. I started liking it down there in McAllen. Some of you say "because if the whore" but I loved the hot weather and I loved my job.

The reality is that not only was the affair a "fantasy", perhaps the whole situation.

The OW gave me so many verbal ques early on that the affair was not reality. WHAT DIFFERENCE DID IT MAKE.....I SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN THE SITUATION!!!!

The affair has left so much damage......so much.

RandyR, I know how much damage Affairs cause: I was in your same situation in 1994 when my family was in Virginia and I was sent overseas to Heidelberg, Germany with the US Army. I spent 4 months there before my wife and kids rejoined me. I did exactly what you did - found a 'fantasy woman' in a fantasy situation and had an Affair.
After my wife and kids got there, the Affair was found out and all hell broke loose.
Did it cause lots of damage, shattered hearts and all that? YES.
How did we move past it in the midst of the hurt and extreme pain?
We began Marriage Counseling right away!
We got back into Church as a Family.
I prayed and asked for forgiveness from my wife and from the Lord.
THIS IS UP TO YOU - You know you did wrong. Now, it's time to begin the road to correct it. I am pointing no fingers saying I'm better than anyone else because we are all HUMAN and we do make mistakes. It takes a real MAN to admit that mistake (you've done that) and then to continue by working on your Marriage with your Wife: TOGETHER.
For your sake and for her sake - as well as your Family, do it!
Harold

Dear RR,

You know, you get what you get when you step out of your M. Usually people who have no morals or very little value for you or your M are the ones who choose to get mixed up in the catastrophic mess that the A can cause. You took the risk and got burned. Haven't you heard this quote:

IT IS NO COMPLIMENT TO BE CHOSEN AS THE PARTNER IN AN AFFAIR

It is my opinion that very confused, low self esteem types get involved or sucked into A's. And the damage can ruin everything. My experience is that these partners do not give a rat's butt what the damage is that they do to you and sometimes to themselves.

If your wife is willing to forgive, if your wife is willing to work on the M, consider yourself one of the luckiest, most blessed human beings on the planet. If she gives you a second chance, then get off the pity pot and start doing the recovery work.

If you are remorseful and regret your mistake, then let it go. Be honest with your BS, make amends, learn how to build a better M and thank God every day that you have been given a second chance.

But, whatever it takes, get over it. As my dad used to say, "don't go into the snake pit if you don't want to get bit". What were you expecting with this OW, love? Hah. Nirvana? Eternal bliss? YOu got what you get when you step out of your M and your vows and your covenant with God. And if you came out on the other side with a wife willing to stand by you and no STDs to deal with, consider yourself lucky.

Heavens

RR,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The fact that the OW "was not real" does not ease the pain, the suffering and the betrayal that my wife feels, nor does it change how I felt (past tense) when experiencing the affair. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, RR. But what realizing this CAN change is your ability to forgive yourself. I know I keep repeating this, but it's huge. Anfd it sounds as though you're already on your way. It may do NOTHING for the damage, but keep saying to yourself...

I'm a smart guy who did something stupid. We all do. I'm a good man who did some bad things. We all do. I'm an honest man capable of lying. We all have.

And aspire to be your best. Affirm that you are an intelligent, good, honest man and from this moment on you will behave like one. Don't ACCEPT anythiing less from yourself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The reality is that not only was the affair a "fantasy", perhaps the whole situation.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Smart guy! So, now you know that your being away from home is one of the times you especially need to be aware and focus on what's real back home.

Ask your W for her forgivness, and give her your committment to make right all the ways in which you have wronged her. Take the first step and let us know how it goes.

I'm in complete agreement with everything Heavens & TheLady just posted.
It's up to YOU now, RandyR. You are very fortunate that your wife still loves you and wants your Marriage to work and she's not blasting you and grilling you constantly like my ex-Wife did.
You have a great chance - don't waste it, my friend.
Harold

RandyR, don't know if you've been reading the other Thread "Re: RandyRail" or not, but you're on the verge of losing your Wife! You need to decide: do you want your Marriage or do you want to go thru the rest of your life mourning some FAKE Woman who USED you, lied to you and dumped you.
Your move.
Harold