steadfast, you really haven't read his posts, have you? maybe you should. because what you will see is time after time people try to help and he circles around to shirking his responsibility in the affair. everything was her, not the result of his bad choices, he refuses to see that the destruction of his marriage is the direct consequence of his own actions. instead he prefers to dwell on how evil ow is, and how she is solely responsible for every bad thing that's happened to him.

if you had read this, you'd know that he left her in texas holding down a job, taking care of the kids, holding down the house, and lived out his little fantasy life. if you read his posts, you will find a recurring theme of "it's not my fault!" how can his wife be expected to work on the marriage with a man who can't even admit he is totally responsible for his decision to cheat?

for the first two months, people here tried gently to tell him that the problem was within himself, and that focusing on the ow so much could be fatal to the marriage. instead of even trying to listen and understand, he continues to fill post after post about her, her, her and how she did him wrong. many who wrote in the beginning are refusing to even reply to him anymore because it's become brutally clear that what he wants is not to work on any problems he has, but to continue to mope about what a fantasy.

now if he wants to lose his wife, that's fine. as you can see on the thread started by his wife ali here you will see that she's about had enough. if he can't pull himself together at least enough to try to save things he'll end up alone.

patting him on the hand and making soothing noises has not worked. right now what he needs is to be hit with 2 by 4 to wake him up to the fact that he's losing his wife!!!!!!

kristawny,

I have read the posts. I was the one that suggested to Ali to get her own screen name and not use Randy's. I've read it from the beginning when Ali suggested that everyone just keep on posting to Randy and set Randy straight. So my question still stands; "What happened that made Randy think it was better to leave his wife and family and go work somewhere else than to stay at home? Do you think that Ali has played no part whatsoever in driving him away?

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it's all Ali's fault that Randy made the decision to have the A. That was all his. But I do see someone the is struggling to get out of the fog and Ali sometimes seems to be playing "Marco polo" with him. The problem is with both of them not just him and not just her; both of them.

Randy quote </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Had I EVER known the pain would be so great that our marriage would be going through the torment everyday, I would not have done it!!!!”</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">“YES!!!! I TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HAVING THE AFFAIR....DON'T YOU DARE WRITE BACK AND SAY OTHERWISE!!!!”</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Randy is in the fog and is going through withdrawal. I've seen it in my W when she was ending her A. To her, it was like someone died. She grieved over it. It took her more than a year to get over it. You can't educate someone that is in the fog. You need to lovingly draw them out. That's what Plan A is all about. Change yourself and meet the WS's needs to show them that you are worth coming back to. Without "Love-Busting". Nearly every post I see he is being lovebusted by Ali (and you). She needs to get into Plan A. If she isn't going to do that , then she is just as big of a hinderence to their recovery as he is.

Excuse me for confusing where he went and where he came from, but that isn’t what’s important.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">patting him on the hand and making soothing noises has not worked. right now what he needs is to be hit with 2 by 4 to wake him up to the fact that he's losing his wife!!!!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you would like to beat him with a 2x4 everytime he tries to get up and go through the process he needs to? He needs to go through withdrawal, grieve and then move on. If you and Ali don't let him go through the process he will never be able to get up and work on his M. If he keeps getting beat with the 2x4's, the only thing he will have that is good are the memories how the OW made him feel. I agree he needs to wake up. But, if all issues Randy's and Ali's) aren't dealt with, they will always have problems. I know BTDT!!

So Ali the choice is yours. Are you going to help him up or will you keep beating him down.

BTW-kristawny, you still didn't answer my question. What is it about you and your story that this is such a trigger for you?

S&C

I've been on this forum before using a different username and I have to say that the difference between then and now is that some veterans seem to be making criticisms and giving advice that is NOT in the spirit of the SH priciples.

I won't bother to quote anyone (you know who you are) but the first thing I think we all have to do (in all of these threads) is understand that EVERYONE needs our help. More specifically, I think RR has had more than his fair share of well deserved tongue lashing at home. If your are too frustrated to season your advice with Grace and Compassion because he's not where you think he should be.... FIND ANOTHER THREAD. To take our frustrations out on ANYONE does NOT preserve the integrity of this forum.

RR and Ali,

That having been said, I will leave you with this. PLEASE go back to the website and READ, READ, READ. Read about infidelity, withdrawl, Plan A, Plan B... read EVERYTHING before you take another step. RR, you may get some perspective from the Q & A that will help you understand your W, and ALI... you may see something that you may actually be willing to try before you make the decision that there is nothing else to be done but D. I've been to a MB at a local church. IT SAVED MY M! We are here to offer support to those who are attempting to use these priciples. Without that foundation, you are at a standstill. Once you have decided to apply what you've learned, then you have ALL the direction in the world and we are here for you when you stumble or have a difficult time incorporating it. I'm truly sorry for you both, but you must tell one another what you need, decide what you going to do about providing each other with those needs and MOVE ON FROM THERE.

Good Luck,
The Lady

Hi Steadfast!

We found out that our youngest son needed MAJOR surgery before he excepted a job in texas! the surgery was scheduled for the first week in sept. we had the best doctors in their field (5 of them)and did not trust any other hospital! I also had to stay behind for the post ops as well. Also because of R's past history that he encountered in his past jobs, we wanted to make sure R was stable. We packed the family once before out of state and he got let go from his position. No reason behind it just was let go! we ended up losing 20 grand after building a house, the move back and the loss of $ at are previous home. Also his company did not have any type of relo package, so we had to stay in the house so we can get one more year of equity because we got screwed when we refinanced and the loss of the 20 grand killed us! To sum it up, I could not leave for all of those reasons! going to a new state with kids and not a penny to your name? big mistake! I begged R not to go! but he said it was his dream job! I was there in the HR dept when they went over his job discription! It was a awesome match. But unfortunately, the job came at the wrong time! R being unemployed wanted the best for us. So he packed up crying and off he went!
So what would you do? your son, job history, your $$$ flow, not enough equity in your home because you only lived there for 2 years??? Sticky situation! I stood by his decision even though I did not agree with it!
Ali

Stead fast,
Help him? Are you kidding? I was here for him all the time. I could not wait until the day I could be next to him at night in his arms. Seeing his big blue eyes when he would walk through the door!
My word! He forgot what he had here! He forgot that I was staying back not only for our son, but so he can taste some success! If he were to fail and we were down there and not one penny to get us back to our families, do you have any idea what that would have done to him?????
Screw that! R has had enough of the selfish bachelor life! He forgot all responsibility. I was the one paying our bills, taking care of this house, kids, etc., while he was living like he was in a dorm! Yes he worked and he worked hard! But Damn, he did the unexcusable! He had a commitment and he broke that? I could have played the lonely house wife routine! I have friends that are Drs and have dr. friends, one showed a lot of interest in me! Why did I not go to bed w/him???? I wasn't there w/him! Does that help??

And absolutely not I will not help him grieve over that thing. You are the only person who says he should greive over her!
I trusted him! he should not be greiving over this slut because he should have not been there to begin with! Think about what you are saying! Geee's!
Ali <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Exactly my point Lady. Everyone that comes to this forum should be helped and not continually hit over the head.

Ali, you said there wasn't anyone on this forum that agreed with me. I beg to differ. If you had read any of the material on this website, it would have suggested you read "His Needs/Her Needs", "Surviving an Affair" or "Torn Asunder". They will tell you about the anaotomy of an affair and what needs to take place to for both WS and BS to reconcile and recover.

The Lady has given you both the best advice you can recieve, bar none. If you do what she advises, read everything here and decide to put them into practice, you have a very good chance of recovering from this devestating affair. But, both of you need to decide to do it. I hope you do. I really hope you do.

Good luck.

S&C

<small>[ May 21, 2003, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: steadfast and committed ]</small>

if getting his feelings hurt saves his marriage, then maybe it's what he needs! he is losing his wife, fast! perhaps, steadfast, you had the whatever it takes to stand by and watch your wife mourn her lover. good for you, not all of us can or will. ali does not seem to be one of those people and unless he realizes it, he will lose her for good!

her posts are getting angrier, and it's becoming obvious that she's not willing to do plan a, and that her love bank is somewhere below zero with him. unless he wakes up, right now, he will drive her away. he came her, supposedly to get help, and yet what he really needs is a mirror held up to his face.

his failure to see what he's doing, to accept his part or see the consequences is about to bust her bank. maybe he needs a shock, such as the one he got when he realized that his kids are being affected by this stuff. it is the children who mainly need their daddy to start thinking about them, and to decide if being around is what he wants.

of course, i've been assuming he wants to stay with her, he just doesn't want to own up to the harm he's caused. but until he can admit what he's done, to himself and his wife, chances are slim.

and i will not stop pointing out the train rushing towards him, because i don't want to see him crushed under the wheels.

ali,

i know how hard it must be for you now! you did nothing wrong, and yet find yourself suffering due to another's actions. i'm sure it seems like some people here are protecting your husband's delicate feelings, as opposed to you. but their not, truly! they are following the principles of the website, which from the outside may look incredibly strange!

after all, he cheated and your supposed to watch what you say to him? why shouldn't you be allowed to scream at him for all he did to you? well, the reason for that is right now the marriage is to shaky to withstand it! hopefully, it will change and strengthen down the line, but until then the bond can be fragile. there should come a time when you can tell him exactly how much he hurt you, but it will take time and effort of both parts.

okay, he's still hiding from what he's done. you can't fix that. i'd suggest you let the counselors and others here point out what he's done, not you. if he starts in on how it's not his fault, stop him. if he starts talking about how worthless he feels, try to listen and no matter how much you may want to, don't shout "you are!"! maybe he did really think you were disappointed in him, the allure of someone telling you're wonderful can be strong when you feel like nothing.

not to say that you did anything to make him feel that way, because you may not have. but that's not important, what is important is that he felt it, deserved or not. that may be a flaw in his thinking, maybe something he could work on, or perhaps he's always felt unworthy. i know it's hard to swallow your anger, but just like randy needs to face what he's done, you need to face that it could be a very tough climb ahead. are you willing to put aside your justified anger to work on the marriage?

also, randy may not be mourning the other woman, so much as the death of a fantasy. the one where he was a success at work, popular with others, and had a worry free girlfriend with none of the family baggage. that is not the same thing as mourning her, as you say! try to understand, it doesn't sound like he's missing her as much as he misses feeling important! so when you see him moping don't just assume it's for her!

<small>[ May 21, 2003, 06:11 AM: Message edited by: kristawny ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by kristawny:
<strong>steadfast, you really haven't read his posts, have you? maybe you should. because what you will see is time after time people try to help and he circles around to shirking his responsibility in the affair. everything was her, not the result of his bad choices, he refuses to see that the destruction of his marriage is the direct consequence of his own actions. instead he prefers to dwell on how evil ow is, and how she is solely responsible for every bad thing that's happened to him.

for the first two months, people here tried gently to tell him that the problem was within himself, and that focusing on the ow so much could be fatal to the marriage. instead of even trying to listen and understand, he continues to fill post after post about her, her, her and how she did him wrong. many who wrote in the beginning are refusing to even reply to him anymore because it's become brutally clear that what he wants is not to work on any problems he has, but to continue to mope about what a fantasy.

..right now what he needs is to be hit with 2 by 4 to wake him up to the fact that he's losing his wife!!!!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BAM! BAM! kristawney has hit the nail on the head!!! RandyR needs to get off his butt and get to work on his marriage, more specifically, taking Ali by the hand, asking forgivness and starting Marriage Counseling and that FIRST STEP on the long road back to Recovery and YES there IS light at the end of the tunnel! Pessissmistic and negative thinking are for LOSERS. Be a winner, RandyR. Do it now. Step out and be a WINNER!
Harold

Well this thread has heated up a bit.

Ali...you have every right to be angry, hurt, betrayed and whatever other "bad" emotion you can think of. You have the right to tell him exactly how much he hurt you. You have every right to kick his a$$ out if you want. But it seems like you want to save the M and making him feel worse doesn't seem to be helping much.

Regardless of how much fog RR is in, what he is feeling seems real to him. So he is gonna grieve because he was hurt by the situation with the OM. RR seems pretty remorsefull to me, maybe at times beating himself up too much.

Is it fair that he is sad because he misses her and you are there to hold his hand...no it isn't. Is it fair that that he seems more upset about the OW than about your M..once again no.

Bottom line is he is sad, he probably does miss her and that is something he has to work through. That is also something he will need help with. Counseling, reading and yes help from you.

I am not defending RR for what he did. I agree he needs to get off his a$$ as someone put it and stop feeling sorry for himself. But this is a journey the two of you both have to go on if that is what you choose.

God Bless

kristawny,

I can't say it any plainer. I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!! Randy needs to do those things!

And he needs to have the train pointed out to him. But he also needs to be allowed to get off the tracks and being whacked with 4x4's everytime he attempts to process this just keeps him on the tracks.

I'm not protecting RR's feelings. I'm merely pointing out that he has them and Ali's anger (while justified) and her attacks (not recommended) is not allowing him to go through his withdrawal and get to the point he needs to be to reconcile.

I am also pointing out that all of this didn't start with the affair. Things were probably not good before he left for his job (again, not a wise choice on his part). If there were issues when he left and Ali contributred to them, then they need to be addressed. I bring up the point because all of Harley's examples talk about the events that led up to the (wrongful) decision to have an A. I don't live with them, so I don't have first hand knowledge of the situation (neither do you BTW).

Ali and Randy are in a vicious cycle. They are feeding off of each others emotions and reactions and they are getting nowhere. Someone (perferrablely both of them) needs to stop reacting and start getting control of themselves and rise above the mess. We are supposed to be here to help them both do that.

IMHO, if you want to give adivce here you need to be able to see both sides of the situation, because there is always two sides and two points of view. Your second post does a better job of that, bravo.

Randy, Ali, please read the stuff on the MB website before you do anything else. It can save your M.

S&C

<small>[ May 21, 2003, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: steadfast and committed ]</small>

As I read the post here I see so many valid points being made by all the people who are trying to help this couple. However I do see almost everyone, including myself addressing only certain points and ignoring much that is said, and unsaid by RR and Ali. Did any one read Ali's last couple of posts? Is there not a large amount of information about the underlying causes for both wanting to escape what seems like a hopeless situation? This is definately not all that lays behind their problems, only another contributing factor.
I like some of you. see that Ali as attempting to be a mother as well as a wife to RR. I also see that he chafes under this motherly control. Ali needs to see this as a sticking point in RR's heart. The other woman did not treat him like she was his mother. She had also never sen his failures so he could feel like a hero in her eyes. This made his success even more powerful in his eyes, and his ego expanded beyond his control. When the OW whithdrew her ego boosting support from this exploded everything that he had become in his own mind. This brought him even lower in his own esteem than anything Ali could have done to him. Always having been mothered he knew no other recourse than to strike back in a childish manner.

When a child tell a parent about someones wrongdoing he expects that the evildoer will be punished. When the punishment instead goes to the tattler, while the evildoer is only scolded, this sets the child to questioning fairness and attempting to convince someone to listen to how wrong and unfair he has been treated. He can hear nothing until he is heard and reasured that his point is valid. You will never convince him that this point is less important than the disruption he is causing in his life.

Yes RR is a child in a mans body and is struggleing to overcome his childish feelings. His every failure only serves to reinforse his lack of self esteem, and the more he tries the more he fails. Agreed most of his failures are the results of his actions, but his actions are those of a child who either hasn't had the opportunity to grow up or was posibly not encouraged to do so. RR acted like a college kid, finally out from under parental restrictions and no one to control his immature behavior. Now like a child he runs to hide under the bed when he hears something he don't want said to him.

How does RR learn to be adult? I don't have the answers to that, and I have been as guilty as any-one of not seeing more than the sparse information that He and Ali present. Can anyone of you help with advice on this issue. I think that before RR can work on anything else he has to progress beyond it.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Agape. fudd.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It's the stage of recovery after withdrawal that gives spouses the best opportunity to learn to meet each other's most important emotional needs and overcome Love Busters. Spouses should save their most tolerant mood for that stage, where they could both be receptive to each other's care.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SH

I hadn't intended to post to this thread anymore, but I felt it imperative that I point out the principles that this forum were designed to support need to be the basis of our advice. Some of our advice here is often given in the spirit of angry outbursts (some of us are having our own little fits), love busting and a failure to recognize withdrawl and emotional needs. Some of our advice is actually encouraging these things, and it's NOT helping the couples being addressed.

I also want to point out that while a WS has a great deal of work to do, the BS also has to roll up their sleeves and get to work as well. That may take more time for some than others, but I don't believe it to be anyone's place to take sides or treat the WS as though they were sub-human. It suggests that the A is the problem when in reality, As are usually symptomatic of other problems in the M. Suggesting otherwise DOES NOT HELP THESE PEOPLE.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">his failure to see what he's doing, to accept his part or see the consequences is about to bust her bank. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">absolutely!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> if getting his feelings hurt saves his marriage, then maybe it's what he needs! he is losing his wife, fast!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll say it again. The M is not in trouble JUST because of the A, and RR has his own issues, frustrating as they are. I can't remember who posted it but someone said that you can't Scare someone out of withdrawl. They have to be lovingly pulled out. RR's Love Bank may be empty, too. How is that going to help anything? It isn't one person's M or the other. They are both responsible for what happens from here on out. If we are to help them we must encourage that.

Ali and RR,

Yours has the potential to be a beautiful success story. If you guys can make it out of this, I pray that you will stay on as a part of the forum and share your story and your advice with others.

the problem as i see it is that ali does not want to plan a, she does not feel like she should have to. it's sad, but it's real! this marriage is doomed if she is not willing to work on it. and like it or not sometimes it falls to the person wanting to save the marriage to try by themselves because the other won't or can't. that is where they seem to be now, that it is him who needs to begin plan a to convince her that he wants her back!

we could sit here and go on and on about how randy is suffering, and randy needs understanding, and that's fine. but randy is going to need a divorce lawyer if he doesn't realize that at this moment he's the one who needs to make the moves to save the marriage! right now she's to angry to want to try to fill his needs, hers are to important for her to deal with his.

wether or not he has problems not related to the affair will be irrelevant if she leaves. and if he doesn't want her to, he needs to realize that. right now ali doesn't care about his mourning, or self esteem issues. there will come a time when she can, but it's highly unlikely to happen if in a fit of rage over his behavior she walks away.

he's losing his last chance to save his marriage, and sadly it may be all up to him to prove to her that he's worth the effort to try again. he can feel free to mourn, but he needs to understand that he just may lose something that with a bit of work could be good again if he does so now.

RandyR hasn't posted lately here - although his wife Ali has. Let's sincerely hope that Randy hasn't bailed on us or his Marriage! Please, everyone keep praying for this couple.
I really don't have much more to offer in the way of advice - other than at the risk of sounding like a SKIPPING CD: "Randy, get moving, dude! You're fixing to lose your wife, children and marriage like yesterday."
Harold

A LIFETIME OF SORROW/A LIFETIME OF BAD MISTAKES

I don't want the chat group to ever feel sorry for me/us and in fact, the group has done the opposite, in particular KRISTAWNY. Her replies have been brutal and they do hurt. You all have given your opinions to us and where we should go. Most of you are in agreement that I need to get off my @ss and start focusing on the marriage. Most of you believe that I just love feeling sorry for myself. Perhaps if you all really knew what we have had to endure, you would have a change in heart. I AM NOT making excuses for the affair but what I am doing is trying to rationalize as to why I strayed and why I continue to mourn the loss of a job that I loved so much and the special feelings that I experienced down in Texas.

I have not written in quiet some time because Alli gets upset when one of takes a position that she does not agree with. Mostly, if one of you says it's "ok" to grieve Randy, Alli feels that it is giving me an opportunity to take an advantage of. My emptiness and tears every night are real. I do not ask for anyone to feel sorry for me. I made the decision to have the affair and I pursued. I TAKE OWNERSHIP!!!!

I have been fired now 4 times in less than 3 years. I have made horrible career choices that have left my family disappointed and financially hurt. Our youngest son had major skull surgery performed when he was only 6 months old last September and our oldest was diagnosed with Autism, this past February.

Perhaps now, you can understnd that the marriage/relationship has had limited exposure to happiness. I want to reiterate that I am not making excuses!!!!

When I accepted the position in Texas, Alli and I made a decision not to bring the family down until we knew that I was going to succeed. We wanted to wait about a year. It would be difficult but we were strong and we had been through worse.

Within three weeks of accepting the position, I knew that the job was a "dream come true". For everything that I touched, I succeeded. I was no longer a "loser" and I felt so important. I never took it to my head!!! In fact, everyday when I went to work, I was scared and looking over my shoulder.

All during this while, Alli and I talked on the phone, sent e-mails and I came back to visit once every 4-6 weeks.

To finally feel like your a winner after all of our setbacks was an incredable feeling. I started falling on love with the state of Texas, especially in the winter when I could ride my bike at night when the temperture was 65 degrees out.

One of you responded that I got myself fired because I acted like an inmature child. Yes, I did that. But I don't think any of you realize that perhaps in reality, there really was no other way.

When I found out that the OW was actually becoming involved with another married man that she kept denying, I exploded. I left a message with her that "she" could have told the truth and that the whole warehouse knew. (Why did it matter to me???? I was married)

But the OW called me and left a threatening message on my cell phone that she was going to call my wife and she was also going to expose intimate details about my past work history to the HR staff. (MY GOD, SHE WORKED IN HR!!!)She also stated never to talk to her, look at her....etc. Again, SHE WORKED IN HR!!! HOW WAS I GOING TO EVEN GET INFORMATION FROM HER THAT WAS WORK RELATED?????

I played the recording to the HR Manager the afternoon that I was fired. I was fired, the other Supervisor was asked to leave and the HR Specialist was given a written warning mostly for her handling of the ending of our affair and the threat.

She remains an employee and she did go back to her husband. It's not our concern and I know that the chat group is bored of hearing this but we also know that they hired another HR Manager and he shares the same office as the OW. What we had heard was that this was done intentionally, to keep a closer "leash" on the OW. We also heard that her days are becoming numbered.

THIS IS NOT OUR PROBLEM BUT BOTH ALLI AND I DO WANT TO SEE THE OW IN PAIN IN PARTICULAR BECAUSE SHE (OW) SEEMED TO HAVE gotten a rise from Alli calling and that there was no remorse from the OW that she was involved inderectly from ruining the marriages of two employees.

The affair and perhaps the job was all one big fantasy that is no longer. I think I experienced success for the 8 months that I was down there and perhaps that is all that I am going to feel. There were no bills to pay, there were no children to feed, there was just me, by myself and independence.

I RUINED EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But as Alli pointed out and continues to do so, when we found out that our oldest has autism, we checked into the schools in McAllen and we discovered that THEY COULD NOT help pur son's needs like they could up here in Illinois.

I was going to have to make a decision to either keep my job and be apart from the family or move back to Illinois. The writing was on the wall.

I just am not ready yet to work on the marriage. The loss of the job has been such a huge emotional loss.

Now you know our history.

Call me an optimist, but I have always felt that major changes in our lives (read...problems) gives us opportunities to make our lives better.

Boy have you been handed opportunities!!

I'm sorry it seems like you have not been given much support on here. Thanks for coming back!
You may be hearing in other's posts (and mine) things we would like to have said (or did say) to our WS's. You represent what we disliked about our marriage.

You are given an opportunity to be sad about things going on in your life, and decide what to act upon.

A time of reflection.

A time to figure out what things are "Oh well, can't do anything about it now"

And

"Oh geez, I can change that"

Alli wants you to get to the "I can change that" right now, but you seem to be bogged down in mourning the things you can't change any longer...

So what to do. There's been great advice on here about things you can do now. Showing Ali you love her is a great idea. Being honest with her. And asking her to help you sort things out.
And then spending time sorting things out on your own. Asking for space.

When my husband was figuring things out (and I think he still is) I tried to give him space, not hover, but let him know I was around. Instead of living our separate lives we did things together. Took the kids to soccer practice..together.

You guys are having a difficult time because you are apart so much of the time...

Is there a way Ali can visit you more often?

I admire you for coming back and listening, writing, and working on your M. There are MANY spouses that don't do this (mine for one).

Getting fired, laid off, let go, is hard on your ego and self-worth. How can you get that confidence back?

the hurt you're feeling is good, randy. it means your hearing. i want you to go back and read your first posts, compare them to now. you've grown, and if you think you would have got here by people making cooing noises at you you're crazy! when you came, you began with the premise that it was all her, that she was evil and you were helpless. look at the title of your thread for example. SHE was a pro, awful person, but what would that make you?

you are not an idiot, what you were is lost in the fog. your refusal to see that your mourning and preoccupation with ow was and still could cost you your marriage. but from the time you came until now, your posts show more willingness to see that ow was symptom not cause. you're now more aware that root was in how YOU felt about yourself and not some witch who ruined your life. that's a good thing!

for a very long time, you've spent looking outward for cause of misery. it was her, it was the look in your wife's eyes, it was stress. now you're realizing that it was an empty void in you, one that you need to work on.

i know this because i was almost there. i had a problem with my self esteem and thought having someone who thought i was the greatest would make me feel better. but it was because others came at me hard and mean that after first being defensive, as you are, i understood that it was me that needed help, not more stress! yes, they were seemingly cruel, but today i look at them and know that if not for them shoving my face in my crap, i'd never have seen the problem was inside myself. (my that was gross)

you've grown since you came here, keep working on yourself. and i'd venture to say that seperation may be good thing IF you both use time to strengthen yourselves! now go to it, you can do it! believe it or not, i'll be one of your biggest supporters as long as you really want to try...

NO LONGER CAN POST-REPERCUSSIONS NOT WORTH IT!!!

When I found this site, I really thought that I could gain emotional support and the strength to understand what took place with the marriage to allow me to have an affair and to help overcome the hurt/pain and desperation that I continue to feel.

I also wanted to understand if the "motions" that I am going through with thoughts of divorce and emtptiness with my current marriage are normal after the affair.

True to the above statment, I have read and researched that the affair is typically so powerful with emotions and etc, beccause our love bank is not getting met.

I can no longer post ever again on the web site. You can ask Alli as to why.

Last night for example, she nailed me after reading the post as to what percent do I miss the OW? The job makes up 70% of the hurt. I loved the job. The other 30%, I miss the feelings with the OW while she cared.

When I said this, Alli exploded!!!! She took our youngest and got in the car and drove off.

I can no longer post anything.

Group, I want to get off the sh*&^%t can and move forward but I am still grieving.

I can no longer use this site for help.

So sorry!!!!

RandyR, I am sorry you and Ali are having such communication problems. I'm also sorry your children are so sick.
Just a few questions and if you can't post anymore, I understand:
1 - Are there NO decent management jobs where you live now?
2 - I empathize with you about your sick children. I lived through the horror of 2 deathly sick children for the first 7 years of my marriage. My wife and I decided to work TOGETHER on this problem, not apart. You have got to find a job that will allow you to stay together as a family.
One last thing: Do you and Ali pray together? For the sake of your FAMILY, I hope you do and I sincerely hope you are in Marriage Counseling now. Ali has a lot of hurt and anger that she needs to get out, and I think that hollering at you is not the right way to go about it (LoveBusting) However, she NEEDS to get it out somehow. Ali, can you Journal and put those feelings on paper or computer? That is how I worked out my rage and anger as well as hurt over my Divorce and subsequent recovery.
Hope this helps.
RandyR and Ali, you are in my prayers. May God heal you both and help you on the road to recovery is my prayer for you both.
Harold