Sue you hit the nail on the head thanks again

It is easy to understand when you've been there.

As far as your weekend goes,

Lets see - she is easy to talk to. - So is a stuffed animal. They don't talk back.

Of course she is easy to talk to, I'm guessing she probably hung on his every word, she does not have a marriage invested in this, so she was not judgemental, and at this point, she was not going to try to interject her real feelings, to do so, might alienate him.

You have needs that need to be met too. It makes it harder when you work opposite shifts. Time needs to be made for each other.

Ginger, have you read the Plan A concept? You might find it helpful Plan A is about working on yourself.

Sue, Once again I find myself laughing you are great!!!! I have not read it all but I will and I have thought of that she has not lived with this man and if she did I have a feeling should would give him back he is very high maintance!!!!!!

You got it, if they lived together, fantasy is now reality. She has not clue what it is like to live with him in the real world, the one of bills, laundry, kids, etc.

Have you ever attended any support groups such as Al-anon, it takes a while to find a good one. I did not attend any of those, I did not find one I liked. However to show my support for his (ex fiance) getting help I did attend a meeting he had at the treatment center for friends and family. It was a real eye opener on not enableing and all that stuff. And on how the drugs alter the chemicals in the brain.

When you really think about it, when individuals abuse drugs and alcohol, those individuals usually have low self esteem, so they need the drugs to help them. They put others down to make themselves feel better. In the process they are slowly destroying the person they are putting down.

This girl who is the OW, she really does not have a high self image of herself. If she did, she would not settle for being the mistress. She probably does not have much of a self esteem either, but she pretends she does. After all, she is the OW, and what kind of woman does that. It is all a facade to protect herself and deny to herself what she is really doing.

You mentioned about his being mexican and in the mexican community any girl would be proud to have him. MMMMM, lets see here, what do we have, a man who has proven he is unfaithful, a man who does drugs, the only thing that makes him a catch is he has a job. Now, I worked with people who live in the area of town that has a strong mexican heritage, and they have more pride in themselves than wanting a man who has a job. He just thinks and says that because he is trying to build himself up.

My H all the time tells me what a good catch he is. I'm good at the LB's so following my example may not be the best route. I told my H, yeah, sure you are a good catch, your waist size has increased by 10 inches since we met, you have 3 children who you would have to pay child support on if we split, tell me again how the woman are banging down our door.

Very few women will wait on a man hand a foot. IMy H used to pull the "if you love me" stuff too. I responded "If you loved me and respected me you would not try to manipulate me like this" I also told him, that "I will not run the family into the poor house proving my love for him. We have 3 children to support and if they have to go without proving my love, then he is not worth it."

Ginger, you need to do a Plan A, and decide do you want to make your M work? What do you want for you. You have spend so much time doing for him that you have not done for you.

Is the OW still in the picture?

Gingersnap, I just logged on tonight and have been following your thread. Just some observations, that I'm sure you already know. It just occurred to me that your WH has a sign on his forehead that reads, "SIMPLY JUST DOESN'T GET IT." It seems apparent to me that he doesn't WANT to. I am also alarmed that a person with his substance abuse/addictive personality issues would be asking you to enable him in his drinking. It also appears that he is extremely self-absorbed. The A only heightens that particular quality, IMO.

You are obviously undergoing a crisis of faith right now. I would encourage you to seek God first in all things and let Him fight your battles.

I was sitting here reading Sue's posts and howling, particularly regarding your WH's comment that OW is so easy to talk to. Gee, I wonder why? Could it be that she doesn't and won't demand that he be accountable to her? It's very easy to think someone is great when they don't hold you accountable for anything, treat you as if your own fecal matter doesn't stink, and don't have to scrub your skid-marked drawers on laundry day. I remember feeling particularly resentful when my WH indicated that he found it easier to communicate with others who were "excited" about what it was he was doing professionally. Of course, he did! Meanwhile, none of these heifers were around when he came home exhausted in the evenings, nor will they be around when it comes time to write the checks that enable us to live. They're not the ones who have to worry about his health and well-being because he's worrying about meeting payroll and other overhead costs every month. It just irks me how these heifers can preen and grin as if they've done something so wonderful while, in reality, all they've done is piggyback off of YOUR efforts and hard work.

ITA with Sue that Plan A is in order for you. I would also suggest purchasing Surving the Affair to get a full understanding of how Plan A should be implemented. Please also read Cerri's site regarding how Plan A is not about being a doormat, but is actually designed to protect YOU.

I will keep you in my prayers!

Hello All and thanks for the input. Sue No the OW is not in the picture as a matter of fact about six weeks ago after cleaning up after mr. wonderful I found some papers in his pocket it turned out to be her phone number at home(which had been changed I tried calling it) and her work number and two calling cards I was sick and broke down all my hard work of trying to get over this was shot back to square on any way that is what led me to call her and see if they were still in contact he had said no and was really upset over the whole thing he kept telling me how he had come across them and was going to throw it away and it slipped his mind any way he had to leave for work and he called all night that night about every ten minutes and I would not pick up it drove him crazy but I was crushed. Well when I was talking to her the OW I said my H said if you ever had the chance to tell me you would tell me how lucky I was to have such a great guy and she said yes that was true I said to her I have been married to him for 26 years don't you think I know him by now and if he was so great why was he cheating on me in my opinion great guys don't cheat that shut her up real fast. As for my faith yes I have been a christian for 15 years and this is the first time I am not finding comfort in the Lord but I know it is me not God he is ever faithful I just am so confused about this whole thing.I have ordered the book surviving an affair and from what I read on plan A I think that I am following it unless I missed something I'm not sure. I will mention that my H does not use drugs now but he still drinks and that causes alot of problems between us but he cant see it. My teen age son is in recovery so yes I have been in group sessions on this issue.

Just an update on how I am doing I could use some input to see if any one else has ever felt this way. I had two good days My H picked me up from work and we spent the after noon together a movie and dinner that was on 5-21,the next day I felt happy happier than I have felt for a very long time, but today....I have been really down thinking about things that have happened thinking of his A alot is this normal? Sometimes I feel like by makeing the desission to make my M work out that he is the one who did wrong but I am the walking around on eggshells not to upset him by saying or doing the wrong thing by trying to make those deposits in his LB I am beginning to feel like I am giving and not getting alot back is this also normal? After all he is the one who cheated not me shouldn't he have to do something? I am confussed

Hi, Gingersnap:

I asked the very same questions you did re: having good days and bad days and why I'm the one who has to do all the work when my H is the one who did wrong. Re: good days and bad days, I think it's normal. As you know, I had a really hard time the first half of this week. Today, it's been a lot better. I think that's because I let myself down by negative or bad thoughts about my H and his A (hence a bad day), but when I realized certain things like I cannot dwell on what's happened because there's nothing you can do about it but you can do something about what will happen, you gain a new perspective and resolve to go forward. Instead of trying to find any clues that my H may be headed in the wrong direction, I'm trying to see positive signs he's showing as positive signs. Simply put, I stopped being paranoid. We also know that we cannot control our Hs' actions, so if they do something that makes you nervous, upset, anxious, etc., such an action turns your day into a bad one. Does it make sense? But I know I'm getting stronger (and hopefully wiser) bit by bit every day. Plus, once you and your H start making progress, I'm sure you'll have more good days than bad.

In terms of why I have to do all this work, I'm still learning, but Plan A is about showing your H that you're willing to work for a better relationship. I quote from "Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters": "It (Plan A) is simply a tool to show your spouse that you recognize the contribution you've made to the deterioration of your M, and that you are willing, able, and determined to change those things. Plan A is also about meeting H's needs as much as you feel you can." We do this to ultimately break up the A because our WS are not willing to do so. The "Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters" posting is under General Questions II under Infidelity (sorry I can't do the link). I AM still learning, too, so if I'm not on the target, someone please correct me. But I've learned a lot from it so far. I have to re-read it over and over.

Hope you have a good weekend. Let us know how you're doing.

AH

Hello AH, I am still awaiting the arrival of my book surviving an affair I guess there was a problem with my order I just got an e-mail I am hoping that this book will answer some questions for me. As for plan A after reading it I feel like my whole marriage has been plan A me doing for him to show him how I care I have always tried to take care of myself never staying around the house undressed no make up etc. I have waited on him, there was just one area I did not give into and it did cause us some problems but since the A I have even given into that and that was a sexual request something that I did not feel comfortable with and I always thought that as his wife he should respect me for my feelings this was not so. After the A I did everything he asked I think I wanted to prove that I was a better lover, person a better every thing than she was but all I can say is he has ran my LB dry. Last night I made a comment about him drinking that he had been drinking alot the last two days of course his reply was that it was my fault he drank. I don't know what to do he wants a robot someone with no feeling and that is not me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Last night I made a comment about him drinking that he had been drinking alot the last two days of course his reply was that it was my fault he drank. I don't know what to do he wants a robot someone with no feeling and that is not me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is not your fault he drinks. It his fault, and he does not want to take responsibility for his actions or behavior. One thing I learned from the treatment program my Xfiance attended was that chemically dependent will blame everyone and everything around them instead of taking responsiblity themselves. If you were not there, he would find something or someone else to blame, or he would blame it on you for leaving. They always need an excuse.

My FIL, after 30 years of being divorced, still blames my MIL for his drinking, his poor credit. Everything is her fault. It was her fault when they were married and now it her her fault because she divorced him. I'm sure he also blames other 4 X wives.

Are you in a Al-anon group?

Hi, Gingersnap,

I'm glad that you ordered the book. I am still reading it, and it has been very helpful. Of course, the trick will be whether I can apply its principles when WH comes home this weekend. One of the things you'll find is that Dr. Harley suggests a time limit for Plan A. After all, a person can only endure so much disrespect but for so long.

Your having good days and bad days is very normal. As time gets closer for WH to come home from his "trip," I find myself reflecting on what has happened. And, yes, I do struggle with bitterness and wanting vengeance. But, I look at where I was on D-Day's and how far I've come, and I don't want to go back there again. They say it gets better with time.

As for your H's crappy attitude about your "contribution" to his drinking . . . puh-leeze! That's his addiction talking, plain and simple. Please realize that the alcoholic has to take responsibility for his own sobriety. So, please keep telling yourself that the devil is a LIAR and refuse to internalize your H's attempts to blame you for his drinking.

Hi Guys, Thanks for the replies, I have been in a down mood for a couple of days I guess the poor me thing I try not to do that. What I would like to say about my H is that he is the type that thinks every one but him has a problem. He does not think he drinks to much as a matter of fact last night I said I thought one of the promises you made me when we talked about the things each of us wanted from the other person was that you would not drink. You guys won't believe his comment it was that it is light beer it doesn't have alcohol in it. Do I have STUPID written on my head!!!!!!!! He will not go to any sort of AA he will not go to councling for his A he thinks all is well because it is over and he doesn't think about it anymore and niether should I. I try to tell him about what I have learned here on this site he only half listens to me he thinks that by telling me he loves me, saying he is sorry, buying me gifts, and having a good sex life all is well. Last night when I was upset and not in the mood to talk because I did not feel like getting in a fight he just said to me "Boy I knew I really screwed up" I asked what that ment he said when I did what I did it was the way he said it kind of like he is just sick of dealing with me and my emotions over this whole mess.

I don't know maybe I should just sweep it under the rug and forget it but I feel like my whole life every painful event has been like that. I have had to hide my emotions so that he doesn't get upset and I am tired of that, that is why I am how I am today insecure and an emotional wreck. I hurt and it is real and if I have to deal with his unfaithfulness why shouldn't he have to deal with my pain? He is the first to tell the kids all the time every action has a reaction well now he has to deal with my reaction for his A.

I might ad that my H always sees himself as right if something happens to him he is the victim. Take his A he feels it is my fault he was the victim of a wife who didn't love him there for he had no choice but to look for someone who would love him. I was sick when I found out some of the pitiful things he said to her about his M it was such a joke. I will go for now I have things to try and get done I will check in later today have a good day all.

Ginger,
Sweeping your feelings under the rug is the same as telling yourself that you do not count, that your feelings do not matter. Do not undermine yourself by devalueing your own feelings. They are your feelings, you are entitled to your feelings. Your H does not want to face the consequences of his behavior, which does affect your feelings.

Everytime you deny yourself who you are, you are telling yourself you don't deserve to have feelings or that he comes before you.

I am asking you to please find an Al-anon group that you feel comfortable with, get counseling for your low self esteem. The two combined will help you become a stronger person. It sounds like you want to be that strong person. I do see a strenght in you, I also see, you don't believe you have that strenght.

He does not have to agree with your decision to attend al-anon, and he will not agree. If you do this, you are doing it for you. If the first group you find does not fit like a glove, find another group, keep looking until you find one that does.

Al-anon will help you realize that you are not responsible for his drinking or his behavior.

Sue, thanks for the reply I always enjoy hearing from you. There are a few reasons why I can not find a group I would right them but I fear that if anyone from here came to this site just by reading what I have already written they would know just who I am and that could make things misserable for me and my H. I do need to think of that also. I would like to talk to you about the reasons but do not feel comfortable on the forum board could I e-mail you? Sometimes I feel like I know exactly what I need to do to get past the weakness I feel, but I just haven't been able to yet like I said before I believe it is the years of what I have been through it was just the A that did me in. Him telling me how wonderful she was how smart she was what a great person she was. He doesn't do it now, but to this day has never said one negative thing about the OW it makes me wonder if he still has feelings he is just surpressing them because it didn't work out. I just don't know, I don't know what to believe anymore he tells me how much he loves me how much I mean to him it just seems like to little to late.

I do love my H and I want all to be well I am just stuck right now, I think I am in the angry why did you do this to us stage.

We had an alright day but I feel like I have to force myself to enjoy things it feels like happiness just does not come naturally anymore is this normal? Well I hope you have a good day talk to you again soon.

when we are on at the same time I will give you my e-mail address

Hello All, Just an update on my day.
Today while at work one of my customers came in he is a pastor a wonderful person we talk often when he comes into the store, he began to tell me that he was soon going to be holding a seminar for couples I told him I would love to participate but I could not say if my H would come or not (he knows both of us). Before I knew it we were talking about M and relationships what men need what women need and so on. I am not sure how we got to the point of talking of my M but we did we talk alot about our M to each other he even told me that I have helped him in his relationship with his wife more than I would ever know, WOW imagine that I somehow help him!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well I am alway very careful not to say to much about what is really going on in my life but I have asked him if his wife and him would be interested in doing some councling with me. We began to talk more and before I knew it I told him let me tell you why I say some of the things I do I told him how I trusted him and I knew he would not judge my H and feel differently about him and then the words came out for the very first time I spoke the words out loud to someone besides my H I told him my H had an affair!

I don't think he was totally surprised he said that he had suspected because of little things I had said (like one time when he told me what a great guy my H was and I said he is not that great)anyway I just wanted to tell everyone that I finally told someone I do trust this person we talked for about 20 min. I cried and talked he listened and spoke words of encouragement, but also said something I had really never thought of before he asked me if I was willing to accept what ever God had for me in this situation. I don't know if I am. Needless to say I have been on an emotional rollercoaster today.

Hello All, Just an update on my day.
Today while at work one of my customers came in he is a pastor a wonderful person we talk often when he comes into the store, he began to tell me that he was soon going to be holding a seminar for couples I told him I would love to participate but I could not say if my H would come or not (he knows both of us). Before I knew it we were talking about M and relationships what men need what women need and so on. I am not sure how we got to the point of talking of my M but we did we talk alot about our M to each other he even told me that I have helped him in his relationship with his wife more than I would ever know, WOW imagine that I somehow help him!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well I am alway very careful not to say to much about what is really going on in my life but I have asked him if his wife and him would be interested in doing some councling with me. We began to talk more and before I knew it I told him let me tell you why I say some of the things I do I told him how I trusted him and I knew he would not judge my H and feel differently about him and then the words came out for the very first time I spoke the words out loud to someone besides my H I told him my H had an affair!

I don't think he was totally surprised he said that he had suspected because of little things I had said (like one time when he told me what a great guy my H was and I said he is not that great)anyway I just wanted to tell everyone that I finally told someone I do trust this person we talked for about 20 min. I cried and talked he listened and spoke words of encouragement, but also said something I had really never thought of before he asked me if I was willing to accept what ever God had for me in this situation. I don't know if I am. Needless to say I have been on an emotional rollercoaster today.

Hello All, Just an update on my day.
Today while at work one of my customers came in he is a pastor a wonderful person we talk often when he comes into the store, he began to tell me that he was soon going to be holding a seminar for couples I told him I would love to participate but I could not say if my H would come or not (he knows both of us). Before I knew it we were talking about M and relationships what men need what women need and so on. I am not sure how we got to the point of talking of my M but we did we talk alot about our M to each other he even told me that I have helped him in his relationship with his wife more than I would ever know, WOW imagine that I somehow help him!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well I am alway very careful not to say to much about what is really going on in my life but I have asked him if his wife and him would be interested in doing some councling with me. We began to talk more and before I knew it I told him let me tell you why I say some of the things I do I told him how I trusted him and I knew he would not judge my H and feel differently about him and then the words came out for the very first time I spoke the words out loud to someone besides my H I told him my H had an affair!

I don't think he was totally surprised he said that he had suspected because of little things I had said (like one time when he told me what a great guy my H was and I said he is not that great)anyway I just wanted to tell everyone that I finally told someone I do trust this person we talked for about 20 min. I cried and talked he listened and spoke words of encouragement, but also said something I had really never thought of before he asked me if I was willing to accept what ever God had for me in this situation. I don't know if I am. Needless to say I have been on an emotional rollercoaster today.

I need some advice, I have had a couple of really bad days in a real down mood crying alot I know that it is not all about the A my H had some has to do with other things going on but I feel I can not handle it anymore. I did a real no no yesterday blowing up at my H some of the things he had said and done although to some they may seem like nothing to me it was. I needed kindness and comfort and did not get it so I lost all control and blew up at him telling him how I just didn't care anymore, how much I hated him for what he did, if he wanted to leave than go I was tired of crying and hurting I said some really mean things to him. His response was that he was going no where he was staying no matter what no matter how angry I got!

I went to church last night the worship time was comforting I guess I really needed that but when I came home I sat on the sofa and just cried I don't even know why.

I know that I am on an emotional roller coaster right now and it doesn't help trying to get through my feelings of the A. I am in a early menapause and if anyone out there has been in this situation I'm sure you know you seem to have no control over your emotions I think every thing has just hit at once and I am not dealing with it very well. My H and I are both off work today very unusual we are going to spend the day together I will try my hardest to stay focused on us and the day we will be doing some shopping I need some clothes for work they changed our dress code. I will check in later to see if anyone can just give me some encouragement in my emotional situation. Thanks

Ginger,

It's me, formerly Achingheart. I can associate with how you must feel. When I was in post-partum depression, I blew up at my H quite a bit and I felt like I was out of control. But you do feel bad about it, and your H said he's not going anywhere, which I think is a GREAT sign, so you should tell him that you feel bad about blowing up at him but you're going through a lot of physiological changes and sometimes you have a hard time dealing with your emotions and you need his understanding and patience.

Looking back, I wish I had a sense to apologize to my H for blowing up at him - had I decided to be honest with him to tell him how difficult it was for me being a new mom and needed help for the continuous negative thinking, things would have been a lot different today. I completely understand how you feel - an A alone is the hardest thing to deal with, and it is no help when you also have to deal with physiological changes like menapause. But I really don't want you to lose this chance to recover from your H's A.

I'm praying for you...hope you're doing well.

<small>[ May 30, 2003, 02:03 AM: Message edited by: Hopefulandfaithful ]</small>