This question may sound weird, but I'm wondering as to why exactly you would want to win her back and save your marriage? Have you thought of it yourself? Could you list her qualities?

I think it will help me understand you better and will help you organize your thoughts. It will either help you see her wonderful qualities and what makes her so lovable and important in your eyes, or will make you realize that there is nothing and you're just trying to win a "challenge" to prove something to yourself.

How did coaching go? Have you been to a session or it hasn't been time yet? I REALLY believe this is a matter for professionals and I'm afraid to make suggestions as to make it worse.

She's angry and disgusted with you but from you said, she's always been this way.
You want her back, but all you talk about is how horrible she's been treating you in your M all along.

Too much negativity from both ends ... Negatives do NOT attract, they repel! I understand her hurt and disgust, but judging from your writings, she's way over the top. I understand your frustration, too.
What I'm failing to see is what either of you are trying to salvage? Is it just for the kids? Maybe she REALLY doesn't want you back.

I'm sorry I'm not much help, but like I said I don't want to give you ideas by comparing your situation to those I've known because there are radical differences.

Are you seeing a therapist in addition? Is she?

I thought I posted this a couple of days ago. But it's not here.

I agree that her doing this without your signature was really bad. Forgery is a crime as you know. But I don’t think you’ll get anyone to prosecute if that is what you are thinking of. They would probably view it as a squabble between a husband and a wife.

The money is community property… One way to look at it is that $2000 of it is yours, $2000 is hers. Another is that community property belongs to both of you and either of you can spend it.

How do you confront it? It’s back to radical honesty. Tell her that you are aware of her forging your signature on two checks and cashing them. Half of that money belonged to you so you are considering that half as payment of support for her and the children. Then let’s say that normally you give her $1000 every two weeks. So don’t give her any more support until you recoup your half of the money.

A caveat here, if the OM or someone else forged your signature the courts are more likely to go after them then if your wife did.

Another way of handling it is if you go through a divorce, the way to handle this is that you add the total of $4000 (or what ever the total is) to your joint assets. Then you put it on her side of the balance sheet. That way she gets the $4000 as part of the divorce settlement and you get to keep $4000 from somewhere else.

Your wife is doing some stupid things. She is lashing out.

I’m glad to hear that you are getting your children this weekend. Good for you.

I have to admit, your comments about toilet training are ridiculous. You did well just letting it go.

IMHO, her cashing those checks in the way she did is very significant. How do you feel about trying to work on your marriage after that?

Yizzl/Zorweb/Cerri?,
I'll answer all your points later. I want to talk about some positive things.

I had a blast with the kids alone this weekend. We spent a couple of hours Saturday, 5 and a half <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , at the township pool. My W told me to make sure our S keeps his life vest on and watch out because he tips forward. After an hour we sat down for some snacks and I took the vest off him, so he could eat comforatbly. He walked over to the pool and started rolling around in the water, only a few inches deep. I decided to let him go without the vest. I started showing him how to crawl on his hands and knees in the water, (begging - gotta teach them young <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) and then had him just crawl with his hands while he floated kicking his legs. By the time we left, our D was teaching him. He still has another season to get the hang of it, but I was worried that he was going to take a long time learning how to swim. Our D took a season and a half. After the pool, we went to the store to get some food for dinner. Daddy cooked <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , and the kids are still alive - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> :just some pasta, watermelon, salad. Not too much I can mess up there. Then we watched a Rugrats video. Actually our D and I did, our S passed out from so much activity.

Then Sunday, we went to my cousin's. Her D was having a 7th b'day party. I felt out of place not knowing alot of people. The kids had a great time, it was a Western theme. My cousin spends 2 weeks putting together props, customes, scenery, etc for a 2-3 party. God bless her. After most of the guests leave, its just family. So I let the whole deal out about my W and I. I am ashamed of what I did and I want my family to know that I am trying to work it out. I told them about some good books that I have been reading HNHN, SAA, and my cousin wasn't too interested. More like...
Who has time. Couples should realize that when your kids are a certain age, you don't have time to be with eachother, conversation 15 hours - 15 minutes maybe.

I felt sorry for them. They are both nice people and I'd hate to see them go through what I am. My cousin told me that if it wasn't for the party, her and her H woudl be doing chores around the house all weekend; like every other weekend.
I don't feel I was preaching, just a heads up, on how important taking care of eachother is.
Brought the kds back later that promised/expected, traffic and fun at the party (afterwards) slowed things up. My W was OK about it. In fact she called me to tell me that she was going to the book store in case I arrived and she wasn't there. She tells me alot about where she is going, always did. Should I be doing the same, even though we are not living together? I think it could build up some trust. Any ideas?

When I got there, she had my suit ready for my interview on Tuesday, plus a ton of ties. Slowly my belongings are leaving the house. I am interviewing with an exec search firm. Hopefully they can find me a job on a 2nd shift with more money, then my W can go back to work without worrying who is taking care of the kids.
While I was unpacking the car, my W left the door open to the house. I brought the kids things up to the door, but did not go in. I wasn't sure what to think, but I bring this up only as an observation.

One quick note:
Our D said, earlier on, that Mommy told that soon things will be better. That Mommy and Daddy will not be arguing anymore. At first I took this as a positive, maye she wants to work things out? Then I thought maybe she saying after we D, there won't be a reason to argue. Reading too much into things again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .

So that's my weekend.

Quickly....
Cerri,
I cut down on the whining after reading your post - only 19 pages more to read <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Btw, I was really taken by the comments you had between Marriage Counselling and Marriage Coaching. Never looked at it that way. Going to call later today to set up appointment.

Yizzl,
There are many good qualities about my W. With all the turmoil we have gone through it gets more difficult each day to see them. Plus, I tend to complain a bit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> and blame her for me having the A. That doesn't work. I still did what I did and if we were fulfilling eachother's ENs, would I have had the A. I don't think so - and that's playing Monday morning QB.

Zorweb,
I am hurt by her taking the $$$. But she has done things that are not rational (well beyond those that a woman would normally do - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) and that is what concerns me. I still don't know if she wants to work it out, needs time, has made a decision or what. I do know it is very difficult to work on it, especially conversation, when I'm not in the house.

All,
I'll answer your ??? later tonight. Plus I have more ??? for you.

Have a Great Day!!!
TTSMM

TTSMM

Ok, I read the entire thread.... well almost the entire thread, I admit to skimming here and there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> And here's what I think.

I agree that your wife is very hurt and angry over the past sexual behavior. And I'm hearing a lot of control stuff making noise in the background as well. Whether or not you call it an addiction really isn't the issue. I don't know that you would find two experts who agree on what makes up an addiction or how to indentify it in any given individual. The real question is whether or not it's behavior that is offensive to your spouse, and if so, to knock it off! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Although the affair with the coworker is in the distant past for you, you have to remember that it's relatively new information for her. And the fact that you once again work with this woman has to be a horrible slap in the face as well as very frightening. At the very least it keeps alive the feelings about the affair.

I would also say that although you may not view it as such, many women think of strip clubs, porn, chat rooms, etc as infidelity. I did, and I still do. I have issues with tv and print ads or with gawking at women we see in public. It's offensive to me and therefore it's off limits.

One of the things I talked about in the Jan NL was that men and women view romance differently. And that we do for each other the things that we would like to have done for us..... just like you arranging for the date (oops, sorry!!! outing) at the spa. It sounded like a highly sensual experience, one that would make you feel more connected to her and so it probably went through your head that she would have the same reaction. Unfortunately, it doesn't generally happen that way.

While you are working towards reconciliation and until you get far along in the recovery process surprises.... even b-day and anniv surprises might need to be off limits. Instead you will probably need to talk about what each of you would like to do to celebrate and then negotiate from there, rather than spring surprises on each other.

I'm glad that you're looking for another job, but second shift needs to be off limits. You and your wife need to spend time together as a couple. Working opposite shifts is a big no-no and will virtually guarantee that you will never recover your marriage.

Ok, then there's the biggie. I would bet an awful lot that your wife is continuing her A with her trainier. I would also be that it's a PA and has been for a while. Unless I missed something, she is still in contact with him and he offered to take her to Hawaii? Yeah, that's an affair and it's not just the chattting kind.

You need to do a good Plan A. You need to know if she is involved with this guy. You need to get some answers about the kids and how to handle your finances. And then you may need to go to Plan B. But at this point you have an awful lot of undoing to get through.

I work with addicts and with men whose wives have either left or are having affairs so I think we could probably work well together. I think I told you on your post to me that we can do this here as my time allows if you like. As you know if you read my stuff around the boards I get busy and can't always get back right away, but I do my best to stay on top of things. It's also not confidential so it depends on how you feel about that and it's not as detailed as session coaching. Either way, whatever works for you right now is ok with me.

All the best,

C

Cerri,
I'm answering your post first because you gave me a lot to think about.

I agree that your wife is very hurt and angry over the past sexual behavior. And I'm hearing a lot of control stuff making noise in the background as well.

Her controlling me, or, me controlling her, or both trying to control eachother?

The real question is whether or not it's behavior that is offensive to your spouse, and if so, to knock it off!

I feel I have knocked it off, not completely though. I still receive emails about porn sites which I only check to see if they pertain to child porn, and then delete. If they are child porn, I contact the proper authorities to get them shut down and prosecuted.
The behavior - No mags (2 months), no strip clubs (5 years), no chat rooms (5 years). I do get tempted, I will admit. It's difficult because I enjoy(ed) sex so much.

While you are working towards reconciliation and until you get far along in the recovery process surprises.... even b-day and anniv surprises might need to be off limits. Instead you will probably need to talk about what each of you would like to do to celebrate and then negotiate from there, rather than spring surprises on each other.

Therefore no cards/gifts of any kind? Should I cancel the monthly subscription to Martha's Flowers? I did not send anything to her for our 10th. I should just let it pass?

I'm glad that you're looking for another job, but second shift needs to be off limits. You and your wife need to spend time together as a couple. Working opposite shifts is a big no-no and will virtually guarantee that you will never recover your marriage.

I understand what you are saying about the second shift. Right now my W wants to go back to work; she wants to work in a pastry shoppe. She has been told that she would have to start out with midnight hours. This did not make her happy, so she's continuing to look, I think. By me working a second shift, I would be home with the kids so my W can work. Perhaps I can find a job w/child care? But I can't wait until one comes along. I need to get out of this job and away from the OW ASAP.
How do we spend time being a couple? I am currently out of the house. She changed the locks when she filed the TRO. I can go back, legally, anytime I want. BUT - with her behavior she could do something and place the blame on me and I would end up in jail. I'm trying to give her space right now. If she not going to file, should I get a locksmith and enter the home?

Ok, then there's the biggie. I would bet an awful lot that your wife is continuing her A with her trainier. I would also be that it's a PA and has been for a while. Unless I missed something, she is still in contact with him and he offered to take her to Hawaii? Yeah, that's an affair and it's not just the chattting kind.

Two, maybe three, weeks ago, I confronted her about the A and I told her I did not want to know (prior to me visiting this site) and that if she did, I forgive her. She told me that it was only an EA and that she found out things about him that were very skeevy that she did not want to deal with him anymore. I beleived her. He is no longer at our gym. My W does have his email address (I found that snooping around through her stuff - before I was out of the house). Plus, she knows where he works - as do I.
I do have a neighbor who said that my W told her she was kissing him in his office at the gym (back before Sept last year) which of course my W denies. The neighbor also said that the EA was suppose to go PA when I took the kids to my brother's last Sept. Since that weekend, my W and the neighbor no longer speak. My sister-in-law also discussed the A but said it never went PA because he turned her down last minute.
Another neighbor, older man, said I should hire a PD to see if the A is still going on.
I don't know who to believe.

You need to do a good Plan A. You need to know if she is involved with this guy.

I don't know Plan A/B. I'm still reading SAA and HNHN and the posts, and trying to read the info for this site. I would like to do a MC with MB. How do I Plan A if I am not in the house? If she said she was waiting for our 10th, now past, for D, how do I ask her if she is still involved with the OM?

I work with addicts and with men whose wives have either left or are having affairs so I think we could probably work well together. I think I told you on your post to me that we can do this here as my time allows if you like. As you know if you read my stuff around the boards I get busy and can't always get back right away, but I do my best to stay on top of things. It's also not confidential so it depends on how you feel about that and it's not as detailed as session coaching. Either way, whatever works for you right now is ok with me.

I have always considered my life an open book. I have usually been honest with people right away. With my W, and her judging and correcting almost everything I said and did, I've lost that honesty with her.
Anyway, I digress, I would like very much to discuss with you on these boards. Just let me know how?

One quick closing thought.
As I was proofing this post before adding, I thought of something. I am up to chap 5 in SAA. I just finished Sue & Jon. Sue wanted Jon out of the house so she could continue with Greg. Could that be why my W filed the bogous TRO?, changed the locks, forged my signature?

Am I reading in to this? Or, are these real signs of the A continuing?

What should I do?

Now I'm really confused.
TTSMM

TTSMM,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could that be why my W filed the bogous TRO?, changed the locks, forged my signature?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry to say this but I strongly believe that the answer to this is yes. From what you have told us, your wife is acting like someone who is having an affair... you talk about how she is going some very out of character things. Many see to be a way to build a wall so you will not find out about how involved her affair is and how long it's been going on.

After posting last night, I had a decent sleep. I decided not to go to the gym this morning so I could sleep an extra hour and be more fresh for my interview this afternoon.

Last night my W called and left a msg asking about a battery for the cordless phone. I did not call her back. She called this morning at work. I tried to answer her ???, but I felt a pit in my stomach since I got up. I answered them as best I could.

I mildly asked about the mortgage and IRS checks. First she answered that the mortgage check went to pay bills. And that I should know where the money is, because I closed the accounts. The bills she mentioned were ones I took care of with my credit card advances. The IRS check she used to pay for a lawyer, "I was doing you a favor." I don't get that logic. I told her that she forged my name onto two checks and that the IRS one could be very serious

I also asked about her nest egg acct, which I know for a fact had over $1800 in it. I did not say how much was in the acct. I also asked her if she sold off her engagement/wedding ring. A quick 'No'. The more mild pressure I put on her, the more defensive she got. I asked her if she was filing for divorce and she said 'Yes'. When? 'I need to sort things out.' What do you need to sort out? Then she said we can't do this now and hung up. I called back and left a msg that we needed to talk.

What next? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
TTSMM

Hi TTSMM

Her controlling me, or, me controlling her, or both trying to control eachother?

Yes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> But specifically you controlling her. But let's define control.... Control is attempting to make someone DO something we want or the way in which we want.... regardless of how they feel about it. Control is NOT... asking your partner to stop activities which are offensive to us. Although... one can be demanding and disrespectful in how they ask for their partner to stop those things. Even so, it's not control to let your spouse know that you don't like what they're doing.... it's asking to have your feelings taken into consideration. See the difference?


I feel I have knocked it off, not completely though.

The only one who can really judge if you have stopped doing things that offend your wife, is .... your wife.

I still receive emails about porn sites which I only check to see if they pertain to child porn, and then delete. If they are child porn, I contact the proper authorities to get them shut down and prosecuted.

That's quite admirable but I would just delete them all. It's more likely that your wife will be offended if you look at all than she will be admiring of you for turning in illegal activities. How about changing your email address so you no longer get those things?

The behavior - No mags (2 months), no strip clubs (5 years), no chat rooms (5 years). I do get tempted, I will admit. It's difficult because I enjoy(ed) sex so much.

How about movies, tv, print ads (Victoria's Secret?), etc.?

Therefore no cards/gifts of any kind? Should I cancel the monthly subscription to Martha's Flowers? I did not send anything to her for our 10th. I should just let it pass?

How about asking her how she feels about the cards and gifts? Or, hmmmmm.....if she's very adversarial right now....gauging her reaction. Does she appear to enjoy the things you send? If so, keep it up, but don't pull out any big surprises.

No, I think you need to acknowledge your anniv somehow. What are the kinds of things she enjoys as hobbies and recreations?

I understand what you are saying about the second shift. Right now my W wants to go back to work; she wants to work in a pastry shoppe. She has been told that she would have to start out with midnight hours. This did not make her happy, so she's continuing to look, I think. By me working a second shift, I would be home with the kids so my W can work.

Yes you could. But when would you spend time with your wife? Probably the biggest underlying cause that marriages go downhill is that couples stop spending time together meeting each other's most important emotional needs. They have kids, they work seperate hours, they have independent recreations.... and all the things they did that caused them to fall in love no longer happen. It's like expecting a car to run without ever putting in more gas...... just because you put gas in when you bought it. Time together meeting needs is the fuel of marriage.

Perhaps I can find a job w/child care? But I can't wait until one comes along. I need to get out of this job and away from the OW ASAP.

Yes, you do. Find one that works in the long term, don't worry about the childcare. If your wife.... who has kicked you out and has the kids wants to go back to work, let her worry about it for now.

How do we spend time being a couple? I am currently out of the house. She changed the locks when she filed the TRO. I can go back, legally, anytime I want. BUT - with her behavior she could do something and place the blame on me and I would end up in jail. I'm trying to give her space right now. If she not going to file, should I get a locksmith and enter the home?

That's a touchy one. If you were a woman I would say yes do that. But for now, I don't think so. Let's work on some other Plan A stuff first.

Two, maybe three, weeks ago, I confronted her about the A and I told her I did not want to know (prior to me visiting this site) and that if she did, I forgive her.

Mmmmmm...... so you didn't want to know and you would forgive for something she hasn't asked forgiveness for AND that she hasn't agreed to stop? Ok, ok...... I know you know better now... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

She told me that it was only an EA and that she found out things about him that were very skeevy that she did not want to deal with him anymore.

Right....... and WS's are always so direct and honest. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I have yet to hear of one that told the truth in any way, shape or form when they are confronted. Here's my thought..... if she admitted to and EA, then it was more. If she says he's skeevy, that's to throw you off so you don't ask again.

I beleived her.

You lied for years about the R you had with the assistant and you believed your wife about this? Ok, I was really naive about those things after my A and never thought that my H would lie to me.... so I guess I can see that. But now, I don't trust anyone without verifiable information. Everything she's doing points to an A, and I'm rarely (if ever) wrong on sniffing those out.

I don't know who to believe.

Assume and behave as if until proven otherwise. It can't hurt and you are forarmed.

I don't know Plan A/B. I'm still reading SAA and HNHN and the posts, and trying to read the info for this site. I would like to do a MC with MB.

You can call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm CDT 888.332.5169 and talk to Dr. H about what he thinks. It's very brief but he'll give you some good insights. I'd guess he'd say do what you can to do Plan A under the circumstances. You can call MB for coaching 888.639.1639 and ask about working with Steve or Jenn. And I think you have my info.

How do I Plan A if I am not in the house?

It's difficult. I'd have to help you work out what her needs are and what you could do to begin making little steps. It's more than I can do right now this morning.

If she said she was waiting for our 10th, now past, for D, how do I ask her if she is still involved with the OM?

I wouldn't ask. She'll lie. There are other ways to address it.

I have always considered my life an open book. I have usually been honest with people right away. With my W, and her judging and correcting almost everything I said and did, I've lost that honesty with her.

Well I agree she may have been disrespectful. But if she was objecting to the things you were doing then you needed to not just be honest, but to stop doing them. I don't want to argue about it, because that would be pointless and not help at all.... but I would guess that if you stopped the sexual acting out the first time she complained in one way or another there wouldn't have been much judging or correcting. And uhhhh..... lying about an A for years doesn't necessarily constitute an open bool. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Communication in marriage is highly overrated. It's what we do with the honest sharing of feelings and needs that matters.... action not communication is what it takes to make a marriage work.

I would like very much to discuss with you on these boards. Just let me know how?

Keep posting, I'll reply as a have time. Some weeks are better than others. I'm taking vacation the end of this week, and right now I have a huge backlog of email to get to, so it'll be hit or miss for a week or so.

Could that be why my W filed the bogous TRO?, changed the locks, forged my signature?

That would be my guess.

C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tryingTOsaveMYmarriage:
<strong>
I also asked about her nest egg acct, which I know for a fact had over $1800 in it. I did not say how much was in the acct. I also asked her if she sold off her engagement/wedding ring. A quick 'No'. The more mild pressure I put on her, the more defensive she got. I asked her if she was filing for divorce and she said 'Yes'. When? 'I need to sort things out.' What do you need to sort out? Then she said we can't do this now and hung up. I called back and left a msg that we needed to talk.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A rule of Plan A is to stop the relationship talks. When you are with your wife, even if just briefly on the phone you are to meet HER needs. Plan A is very one sided... Have you read the link in my signature block about Plan A?

Zorweb,
I printed out yours and BrambleRose's post, and I starting to read them.
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do I meet her needs on the phone?
  How do I know for sure that she is having an A?
  Do I contact the OM? I have been told by some friends from a legal standpoint that he could get a TRO against me and that that would not fair well for me later on. She even said for me to call him and ask him. That it was only an EA. Of course he would lie, my OW lied to my W about us.
  Should I start listing what I think her needs are (the opposite of mine, no doubt)?
  Should I ask her her needs?
  Is she telling the truth and I am just going to damage the M even more but hunting deeper?
  Do I confront (can't find a better word) ask her to stop the A, pretending I know all about it?</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right now it appears as though she has it all. If she is indeed haveing an A, she also the kids, the house and I am giving her money every two weeks (for food for the kids and for gas for her Jeep) - she doesn't work.
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Based on her admitting that she forged my name to the checks, should I stop giving her support money?
  Should I go and purchase the food for the kids and tell her to live off the $4k+ as well as her $1800+ in her acct? I don't want to be a sap here, and I want to make sure the kids are provided for?
  Should I hire a PD and have her followed when I have the kids?
  How much do they cost?
  Should I try to get back in the house to break up that best of both worlds she is experiencing?</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am a man who likes to be in action around a problem and I feel antsy doing what I feel is nothing.
Cerri wrote -
How about movies, tv, print ads (Victoria's Secret?), etc.?

Movies - 2 weeks. TV - explain further, sorry. Print ads - VicSecret: don't have, others: not aware of. Also, </font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How would she know (I am not trying to be dishonest here) if I am not home for her to see for herself?</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How about asking her how she feels about the cards and gifts? Or, hmmmmm.....if she's very adversarial right now....gauging her reaction. Does she appear to enjoy the things you send? If so, keep it up, but don't pull out any big surprises.
The flowers she complains about, BUT when I asked our D, she said that Mommy put them in our bedroom. So I guess I will keep the flowers going. Although maybe I should cancel and send flowers once a month by ordering them once a month. This makes me involved in it more by having to call a florist once a month, and I feel shows more affection. Then I can personalize a note very month.
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How personal should the note be?</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I think you need to acknowledge your anniv somehow. What are the kinds of things she enjoys as hobbies and recreations?
I took her to a concert last year as a surprise, Santana, and she said "It was the best suprise anyone has ever given her." She enjoys her music and I could ask if there was a concert coming up that she would like to see. She likes the gym, but doesn't want me around there. She likes baking, cooking.
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, how do I do anything with her alone if I am not at home?
  Should I go through the recreational list in the HNHN and come up with something?</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mmmmmm...... so you didn't want to know and you would forgive for something she hasn't asked forgiveness for AND that she hasn't agreed to stop? Ok, ok...... I know you know better now...
Unconditional love on my part? As I said, I didn't want to know but I let her know that I would forgive her anyway. I was going on information from neighbors, relatives, etc, and I guess/know, in my heart, I really didn't want to believe them.. Now of course I DO want to know. I feel like C**P right now, but I think I can deal with it if it is true. I just need to know. Now I know why she was so inquisitive, etc, when she had her suspicions. OUCH!

It's difficult. I'd have to help you work out what her needs are and what you could do to begin making little steps. It's more than I can do right now this morning.

I am chomping at the bit. I need to be doing something, standing still drives me nuts. I need to develop patience.

I wouldn't ask. She'll lie. There are other ways to address it.

How? How?? How???

After yesterday's call from my W, she did not call the rest of the day. She calls me this morning, saying that she knows my cousin's GF was at the party (this past Sunday). She is a computer tech, and my W feels I will hit it off with her. This is based on her feeling that I was hitting on his previous GF (when I was playing football w/her at another party - my W was not interested in doing anything active). Bottom line: I AM NOT INTERESTED IN ANYONEELSE.
Then the phone went dead.

She called back a few minutes later. "Don't try to intimidate me. I'm intitled to that money as well." Then I don't remember her exact words - she is going to make sure I get it in the end.
Then she hung up. This is her SOP. Gets her last words in and hangs up.

What is interesting is yesterday, she hung up because I had hit a nerve with her about the checks.

That's all for now.
TTSMM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

As a side note:
How do I add links to my signature? Mine come out messed up, though they work.
Thanks,
TTSMM

Never mind. The changes to my signature worked.
Thanks,
TTSMM

Hi,

I have a long post to you mostly written. Just did not get a chance to finish it. Will later.

As far as the money does, yes your wife is entitled to 50% of it. The other 50% is yours.

How much $$ do you give her a week? Let’s say it’s $500. Then tell her that since $2000 of that money is yours, you have pre-paid her $2000. So you will resume giving her support after 4 weeks have passed. If she feels that she used the money for valid community property purposes she can submit the information to you in writing so that you are aware. But don’t tell her this over the telephone. Write it in a letter. Then she cannot twist what you have said.

Even better, talk to your attorney about what he thinks you should do. Then have him write her a letter saying to explain how you will handle this.

If done properly this is not intimidation. It is you setting some healthy boundaries. You can Plan A. But you also need to set some proper boundaries in this situation.
She cannot do things like this thing with the checks. There are consequences to it. She has to know and start to feel the consequences of the game she is playing. And it is a game. If she really wanted the divorce you would have already been served. She thinks she has all sorts of power over you the way things are. This is a power struggle between the two of you. You are each trying to control the other. There are no rules here… she wants to act like she is not married on some things but then like you are married when it comes to the checks. She cannot have it both ways.

At this point I would file for divorce.. (If your state has a legal separation then go for that instead) this would set up custody/visitation arrangements and rules for interim support. Then I’d send her a letter, copying her attorney and yours stating that you filed to get some boundaries in place but that you still want to work on the marriage. That you will drop the divorce once she ends all contact with what’s his name (do not call it an affair yet), allows you to return to the family home and agrees to work on your marriage.

I am sure that most people here would not agree with me. But I’m a big one for gently setting boundaries because when no boundaries exist, it allows people to make up their own rules and all sorts of bad behavior is facilitated.

oops...

<small>[ July 02, 2003, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: Zorweb ]</small>

oops again....

<small>[ July 02, 2003, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Zorweb ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Zorweb:
<strong>oops again....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Feel strongly about all that Zorweb?? LOL

I agree, although I would really check into a legal sep first. Filing for a D seems to get the attys blood going and it just ends up in a mess. Rather than being a protective way of setting boundaries it turns into a war. A yukky combination of Plan A and Plan B.

Some people are lucky enough to find a lawyer who can avoid that. But they're really hard to come by.

C

Now I am even more confused and have a greater pit in my stomach.
My atty hasn't returned any phone calls in the past two weeks. I just found out Monday, that she is on vacation all this week. I understand it is a holiday week, but she should make her clients aware and answer their phone calls. OK, that's it for the whining. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

As for the money.
We had agreed months ago, that it was going back to lower my credit card, it is used for the family. After our refi went through, I would take an advance of $4000, move it into our joint acct and pay back several large bills we had. She claims that she took one check and deposited it into our joint acct to pay those bills herself. I have requested copies of our bank statements, because curiously enough, that's the one bit of mail I have not received from my W.

A bit of good news.
I went on an interview yesterday with a career management company. They would handle all the details of job searching for me: training me for interviews, redoing my resume for each interview, cover letters, salary negotiation, a detailed profile of the comapny I am interviewing with including a personality assessment of the interviewer, etc. I would be a client for 3 years, and have access to these services during that time. And if I decided to change jobs, locations, etc during that 3 years, they would assist me in finding a new one. I could potentially make 25% more than I am earning now.
The problem is that they charge me a fee, $5-8K, and not my future employer. By not charging the prospective company they are able to network better. The plus for me is that I am not doing a lot of research and other unneccessary "work" to find a job. The cost might be tax-deductable, I have to check with my accountant first. I have not made a decision on this yet because we don't have the money.
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do I let my W know I am doing this, and that it could mean a better life style for us.
  Do I inform her that I would therefore no longer be in contact with the OW? (Of course she would realize this, but do I bring it up anyway?)
  Do I ask my W for help so she feels she is involved with our business decisions; i.e., go clothes shopping with me, etc.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TTSMM

What does "bump" and "oops" mean? I could not find them on the acronyms post?

I am trying to give the facts and how I reacted. I feel I reacted very different than usual. Maybe not a 180, but at lest a 135. If it sounds whiny, let me know and slap me back into place. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> LOL

My W called this morning to see if I was picking the kids up tonight for the fireworks. I told her that I would have to check because I heard from a friend that they were not happening tonight. She asked, "Can you pick them up anyway?" Let me see. I told her I would call her back later.
I asked her about Sunday because I have my Men's team picnic (this includes the parallel women's team) and I wanted to take the kids. I asked though if she had plans for them for this weekend first. "I don't have..." and she paused, not saying anything else. I thought she was going to say friends or plans, but she said nothing. My own thinking.

Then she changed the subject.
She said, "Don't buy them toys. They're becoming bratty. They want, they want from me (Mommy) and I tell them I can't give them. The kids won't appreciate what they have. This is how I was brought up and you see how I handle money. We always agreed that there would be no toys between their B'days and Christmas." I let her have her say.

Next, she told me about her teeth problems.
She was very upset because people are not getting back to her for her appointment or whatever else. She then went on about how good she is about getting back to people. I said nothing, but I should have agreed with her. Instead, I said nothing. She has felt in the past, and she is right, that I don't stick up for her. It is difficult when I feel she is wrong, but I at least did not put her down, I said nothing.
I was trying to let her know that I had submitted the estimates for her dental work to our insurance but before I could finish, she went off about what a sleazy dentist he was, etc. I did not respond to this. I did, however, let my ego get in the way and got a little loud because she kept interrupting. I was asking if she wanted me to fax her estimates to her new dentist. She said, "You and my father think I don't have a brain in my head. I've gotten a lot done without men squashing me down."
Then she told me how the new dentist thought it was strange that her old dentist did not practice where he lives (our hometown). Instead, he practices 30 minutes away. This, in my experience, is not unusual. She then said, "See, life is very simple and straightforward, if you are honest with me." This was a double reference, I felt aimed at the dentist and ME. I kept my mouth closed on this as well.
She was upset the day (3 months ago) we got the estimate because of all the work and costs involved ($13,000+). We had just closed on a refi that day, so I told her we would manage this and perhaps she should shop around. Now she says that I wanted her to stay with the old dentist (not true), and not to shop around. She's happy she shopped around. "See <my name>, I'm always trying to save you money."
Back to the sleazy old dentist.
She did not like him, so she says now. “There’s a difference between an empathetic man and a man who treats me as a little girl.” Again, I know this was aimed at me as well as at her old dentist. No response from me.

She told me that her appointment is on Wed, July 16th. And, that she has yet to find someone to drive her there and back and to watch the kids during. I wanted to quickly volunteer, but I held back. She then complained about how she has no one to take care of the kids, so she can take care of herself. Then I told her that if she needed me, she could call me. “Well, maybe I’ll use you as a last resort.” Pause, beat, beat….. “Then let’s set it up now.”, she said. So we did.

I feel that throughout this call I felt like a doormat <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . She was taking and I was giving. But, I did sense a shift in her, ever so slight.

I would love feedback on what EN’s I fulfilled for her, if any.

I am still reading SAA, trying to read up on Plan A/B and other posts out there. Getting bleary-eyed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

Feeling down, but not out,
TTSMM