Zorweb,
Thanks for the med info.

My W called this morning at work about the check. I told her I would bring it down after work.
W - How much are you giving me?
Me- $300.
W - I thought you were giving me extra.
Me - I already am giving you extra.
W - I told you I need bras.
Me - I am already spending alot of money on gas, food, etc. not being at home.
I'll see what I can do.
She pushed one of my buttons and I told her I was moving back into the house.
W - No you're not. How are you going to get into the house? You don't have a key.
Me - If I am not back in the house, I'm not giving you any money. There is no court order restricted me from the house.
W - I'm calling my lawyer.
She slams the phone.
I know that was the wrong approach. I am frustrated so I flexed some muscle, inappropriately. But I wasn't screaming and yelling, she was. She said she was going to tell the kids that I don't want to give them food. She is out of f'in control.
I called my former atty, and she finally answered. She didn't know I was in crisis with this and she had other clients who were, so that is why she didn't return my phone calls. I am still using her, although it is very expensive: $285/hr. She knows my W's atty and during the TRO hearing she was able to get alot of info to me about my W (see previous posts - I believe).
What my atty told me was I need to get back in the house before she files for D otherwise I stand to lose everything. She feels the way my W is acting, we will lose everything because she doesn't care anymore.
Therefore; this is what I am doing within the next few days/one week. I am going to get a locksmith and have new keys made and move my belongings and myself, into our basement. I am having a deadbolt placed on the basement door, and a special lock placed on the front door where it will require papers to have the locks changed or broken into (this will be very expensive and apparently these locks are serialized and every locksmith is suppose to respect the rules governing these locks).

As for the M. I haven't a clue how to get this resolved. She is beyond any rational behavior. Now she gets the C invovled in every aspect that pis*** her off about me. This is truly sick.

Onto the subject of Plan A. Avoid LB. That is meant for me right? Not her. She can do all the LBing she wishes to and I am suppose to not do anything. I told before, that if she was not going to treat our conversations with respect, then don't bother to call me and all future communcations would be through my friends (Plan B).
W - You are a manipulator a sex addict, etc....

As for NC with the OW. Don't know if you saw my posting about the job search. I found a job career mngmnt company that handles a variety of areas for my job search. This will cost about $5-8K for 3 years. I think I should do it. And I think I should tell my W so that she knows I am doing what I can to NC the OW, as well as being open and honest with my W. I don't feel I can POJA on this one because she is 1) not rational and 2) doesn't know anything about POJA or any other MB concepts.

One more. How do I go about introducing her to MB?

Frustrated/Confused/Exhausted/Disgusted/Anrgy/Depressed,
TTSMM

Hello? Anyone out there?
I have gained so much from this site, and now I feel I am dangling in the wind on my own. I will continue to post though.

I have an appointment this week with a new therapist/MC. This is for me alone, because my W has no interest in repairing anything. I told the Dr. briefly my situ w/my D and my W's warning her about me. The Dr. told me he would have to get my W's permission to see our D. This s***s. Basically, she can say anything she wants to our D and I can't do anything about (unless we go to court - legal sep/divorce). Anyway, I will be seeing him for myself and if I need anit-D's, if I am a SA, my anger, etc.
I also told him I was going to go into the house this wkend w/a locksmith and he told me not to make any hostile moves until we meet and talk. I trust the man who intriduced us, so trust this Dr's judgement...for now.

On Fri my W called to find out the arrangements for the wkend. She also asked me if I wanted to see our S more during the wk because he missed me and felt some father/son alone time would be good. I told her I would have to think about it. She couldn't understand why I did jump at the op? I have aan arrangement wher I need to take care of my friends kids until he comes home because their mom is going to school in the evening.

I picked up the kids on Sat. n went to an amusement pk in south jersey w/a friend n his D (from my men's team). We had a blast, I even joined them in the Foam Blaster room. When I brought the kids back home, my W had mentioned that she was going to mow the lawn the next day. I told that I would do it now if she wanted. So I mowed the front lawn n setup the sprinklers. This took a little over 2 hrs. My W offered me some ice tea, saying, "It's the least she could do."
I finished the yard work just when it was time for the kids to go to bed. So I told my W I would like to read to the kids n tuck them in to bed. She was OK w/this. It felt good to do that, I haven't in over 10 weeks.

On Sun. I took the kids to church, the park and the pool. It's getting very difficult to come up w/things to do w/them. Not to mention, very expensive. I am getting very tired of the pool/park. If it wasn't summer, or worst yet, if this goes past into winter, I don't know what I am going to do.
When I brought the kids home, I continued the yard work. My W made sure to make me know that I wasn't comign back into the house. Except when I had to get something from inside, she made certainta to lock all the doors so I could not come in.
Again, I made sure to stay late enough to put the kids to bed again. This time when I said that I was going to read to the kids and put them to bed, my W made a disenchanted face. I went into the house anyway and read/put them to sleep.
Afterwards, I left. When I was leaving, she wanted to know what door, so I told her and left. Again, she let me know what was up by, following me out to the garage and locking the door behind me.
Today, there was no thankyou, offer for a drink or anything. In fact she made dinner for the kids n never offered anything.

Let me introduce myself, I am a F****** DOORMAT!

I was reading someone's post yesterday about an H who gave his W lots of attention (sexually) but still masturbated. Dr. H felt this was the man having an A w/himself because it robbed his W of being the only one to give him SF. Two ??:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does anyone remember this post so I can continue reading it?
  If I am Plan A'ing and NOT living at home, does this principal apply to me masturbating? SF is high on my EN list and it's been since Oct-02 since my W and I have.... So I have been pleasuring myself. Since the separation, my fantasies/thoughts have all been about my W. In fact, when I am in the gym or at the pool and I notce an attractive lady, I immediately think about my W and how I wish she was by side right then.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's 12:15 Mon AM. I am going to go to sleep. No work tomorrow (today) as I took off to take my W to the dentist. "One Doormat at your service <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> "
ttsmm

Whoever is reading,
I guess I fulfilled some of her EN's today:?
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Drove her to the dentist.
  Let her relax w/o the kids for 5 hours.
  Did her food shopping.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So I was definitely the doormat today.
She did offer me some dinner (mac n cheese - the kids weren't hungry).

I am too tired to continue posting, ESPECIALLY SINCE NOONE RESPONDS ANYMORE.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ttsmm <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

ttsmm,

I am not in a position to really give advice but I have read your story and I know you could do with some help. You really seem to be in a tough postion but I really think you need a plan. You are hanging on for some hope which allows your WW to send your emotions up and down at will. I think you either need to do plan A or plan B for a set time. That way you have a goal you can work to. With a plan you may be able to ride the bumps easier.

Good luck. I hope it all works out.

Rho

Whatever you do, please don’t stop posting. I have no idea what is going on with your thread and why few have responded to you.

It seems to me that you are learning a lot and have come a long way. Sure you've had your moments but it seems that you are really chancing the way you approach things with your wife. And, I could be wrong, but her inviting you to dinner tonight, no matter how simple is a good sign.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have an appointment this week with a new therapist/MC. This is for me alone, because my W has no interest in repairing anything. I told the Dr. briefly my situ w/my D and my W's warning her about me. The Dr. told me he would have to get my W's permission to see our D. This s***s. Basically, she can say anything she wants to our D and I can't do anything about (unless we go to court - legal sep/divorce). Anyway, I will be seeing him for myself and if I need anit-D's, if I am a SA, my anger, etc.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, I take my kids and my step kids to therapists all the time and have not had to get anyone’s permission for squat. Oh, there was one once who said this and so I found another. BUT, a person you see for your own counseling is not someone who should see your child. You need someone who is very good with children. Probably someone who is good at what is called ‘play therapy’. A person who is good in this area can do wonders. Children do not express their emotions so much as act them out in play, angry displays and acting out. This is the type of person who can help you with this issue. If your wife’s permission is needed, then get your attorney to help you force the issue.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have aan arrangement wher I need to take care of my friends kids until he comes home because their mom is going to school in the evening.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Time with your son takes precedence. So find a way to make it work. Like maybe have your son with you while you watch these other kids and then do some fun kid things even if it’s just watching an funny movie, snaking and joking around.. with your son on your lap or next to you.

And, you are watching the children of another woman? What does your wife think about this?

Your doing things around the yard and tucking the kids in is great!!! Good job. It is small things like this that will win your way back to her.

By the way, I know you feel like a door mat. Want to share something I heard Dr. Laura say one day. She was chastising a woman who was going on about being having to do so much for her family.. feeling like a door mat. Dr. Laura told her that her attitude basically sucked. That instead of feeling like the world is taking from her she should rejoice that she has someone to love and do things for. That this is an honor and should be taken as such. Maybe an attitude in which you feel lucky every time you get to do these things. It’s not the way we are all taught to think.. but it’s an interesting approach.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I am Plan A'ing and NOT living at home, does this principal apply to me masturbating?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No because you do not depriving anyone right now by doing this.

I feel badly 'cause I've had things I wanted to post to you but I keep running out of time... doing the mindless things and posting where it takes no gray matter. Your situation needs a lot of thought. For the last few days H and I have been preparing legal and financial papers for the custody battle. I hate it as you can imagine. I’d much rather post to you and others then do all this crap for a case that should be a slamdunk.

rhodie,
I am Plan A'ing. I don't know what tot set the time to because, my W tells me she will be getting a job after the summer is over and our D is back in school. Then she will proceed with the divorce (i guess).
I don't even know if I should be Plan A'ing. She had an EA, that I am certain because she told me. I don't know if she had a PA, so is Plan A'ing really worth it? In my screwed up mind, because I had the EA/PA first, I feel she is justified in her having her EA (PA?).

Zorweb,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have no idea what is going on with your thread and why few have responded to you.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know either and it is frustrating as can be.
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Should I rename my thread?
  Should I start a new one and make it less whiny; pointing back to this one if members need info?
  Should I change my screen name?</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am at a lost. I have read alot of whiny, heated, etc. threads here and it doesn't make sense. Those threads get mega replies. Plus, I have done what you said, and have posted to others' threads. I even b'marked them so I can read the updates.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> a person you see for your own counseling is not someone who should see your child. You need someone who is very good with children. Probably someone who is good at what is called ‘play therapy’. A person who is good in this area can do wonders. Children do not express their emotions so much as act them out in play, angry displays and acting out. This is the type of person who can help you with this issue. If your wife’s permission is needed, then get your attorney to help you force the issue.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will ask my new therapist tomorrow for a child psychologist. AS for my attorney; I am going to look for a new one. She is way to expensive and now I am disputing some of her charges; e.g., she got lost getting to the court; she paid for my luch (after the hearing) but charged me for the time; my W's atty missed the first call by the judge, (my atty and my W's atty should reimburse us for that - his cell battery was dying so we missed seeing the judge and had to wait an add'l 2 hours).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And, you are watching the children of another woman? What does your wife think about this? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My knee-jerk reaction was, "Tough, she is the one who locked me out of the house. She has to deal with it." But, looking at it deeper, I don't know her feelings on this. She said she understood, BUT...
**In fact, while writing this post, she just called and asked if I was coming over today to pick up our S because she needs to separate them. She forgot? that I have to go back to my friends' first. She is really grogged out by the meds she is on for her teeth surgery, plus she is still physically ill from last week. I am thinking about leaving work early today so I can take the kids to the pool (surprise) and give her some more rest. I have to see waht my schedule is like here today.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> By the way, I know you feel like a door mat. Want to share something I heard Dr. Laura say one day. She was chastising a woman who was going on about being having to do so much for her family.. feeling like a door mat. Dr. Laura told her that her attitude basically sucked. That instead of feeling like the world is taking from her she should rejoice that she has someone to love and do things for. That this is an honor and should be taken as such. Maybe an attitude in which you feel lucky every time you get to do these things. It’s not the way we are all taught to think.. but it’s an interesting approach. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I get you loud and clear. As I had mentioned earlier, my biggest EN is APPRECIATION. It gets me through the day to know that my efforts are needed, understood, worth it and apppreciated. It might be higher than SF (though not having it for a while, I'm not so sure <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I feel badly 'cause I've had things I wanted to post to you but I keep running out of time... doing the mindless things and posting where it takes no gray matter. Your situation needs a lot of thought. For the last few days H and I have been preparing legal and financial papers for the custody battle. I hate it as you can imagine. I’d much rather post to you and others then do all this crap for a case that should be a slamdunk. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I didn't want to make you feel bad, I just need some feedback because this is a difficult time for me. I was hoping others would read my thread and start posting.
I didn't know your situ. I have been kinda selfish in this respect because I never asked what you were going through. I hope and pray everything goes ok w/the custody battle.

I'll keep posting.
TTSMM

TTSI,

Yes, sometimes it does help to start a new thread with very specific questions. When a thread gets too long, occasionally it puts some folks off until they get to know you better.

You asked earlier about doing a Plan A. I do think that's where you need to be right now. Keep in mind that means you won't have much chance of getting your needs met for a while, but since your wife is involved with some else now....it will help that situation, as well as help her get past some of the hurt you caused with your own A.

Don't give and do keep posting. Sometimes threads just sort of die and you have to start a new one. It also helps post to specific people you trust....like "Zorweb, TMCM and others....should I get a new attorney?"

I'll try and peek in on you too. Thanks for the heads up Zorweb! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ttsmm,

I know it is difficult to set a time, but if you do it allows you to focus on an end point. Say you decide plan A for 1 month. At least you can ride the negatives by knowing that you have a plan for a month. I believe this will make it easier to "bite your tongue" when talking to your wife during that time.

Sorry, I am no expert but I can feel your pain. Just hang in there and try and focus on a future for youself as well. You seem to be doing an excelent job with the kids and enjoying your time with them. Thats Great <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hang in there bud.

Rho

TTSMM,

From reading your postings, this is what I figure:
Nothing excuses what you did, but she doesn't seem to be even slightly interested in fixing things between you.

We don't really know how your interactions with her go. All we know is what you write down and no matter how accurately you put it, there are many important elements missing. For instance, the tone of your voice, your facial expressions, your body languages, etc, etc.
There are so many things that can put her off or get her angry.

Yesterday I had one of my private sessions with my therapist (for the record, my BF and I are seeing our own separate counselors as well as a Family counselor). My BF seems to be ultra sensitive to ANGER ... he feels that I'm always angry at him and that he's never angry, etc.
I wanted to discuss my anger with my therapist and see how I could manage it better (because without him pointing it out, I know that I have a hot temper).
After giving her a few examples of our interactions with each other, she said something which I found very interesting and VERY TRUE.

(yes, and I am talking about it because I think it may be relevant to your situation and the two of you might have the same thing going on).

She (the therapist) says that I'm the kind of person who expresses my anger openly. I don't yell or scream or curse, mind you, but I DO express it through numerous facial expressions and impressions.
My BF on the other hand, is a perfect example of what they call "Passive Aggressive". That describes a person that not only doesn't express his/her anger openly, but also is completely unaware that he/she is getting angry; period.
An example would be being late for an appointment or a phone call or doing other things that are not clear punishments, but would bother/punish the other person. The tricky part is; however, that the passive aggressor is NOT doing it "on purpose" and is unaware of it.

I know I'm not very good at explaining this, but I do know that my BF, as the passive aggressor, drives me crazy and whenever I explode and and complain about how lousy he has been treating me and how much he's this way or that way, when I think back, there was something in his attitude that triggered it.

Do you think that you might have a feeling or attitude that you THINK you're hiding well, or you're completely UNAWARE of that is aggravating her when she's with you?
The answer might be "no", but think about it because it's all about being honest with yourself.

Bottom line, the way I see it:
You're not following the plan the correct way. Your plan A (as that seems to be the one you're doing right now), is much like my own diet and exercise plans. I do it, but I don't get the results I want because I cut myself too many slacks and don't fully and 100% stick to it, all the time.
If the plan says "eat less carbohydrates for a week", I'm good the first two days, then I have some fries the third day because I'm either tired or feel like I deserve it, then I'm good for another day, and then I have something else I'm not supposed to have, ..., and 7 days later I don't see a change or it's even worse and I get discouraged because "I did everything right but it didn't work".

As it is with any problem, if your results don't make sense, you made a mistake somewhere along the road or you're solving "the wrong problem". Think about what it was and try to correct that.

Having said all of that:
I don't want to sound negative, but I just don't see the point in trying with someone who's so unresponsive! Have you considered a fresh beginning with someone else? Do you want to be back with her for HER or for your children? What is it about her that makes you want to get her back? I think I asked this question before but I don't remember if you answered.

<small>[ July 23, 2003, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Yzzil ]</small>

Yeah, you should probably start a new thread with fresh questions and a brief background for those of us who might not have time to read all the pages of posts. Sometimes I peek in to see where I might be able to help (browsing the subject lines) and the long threads with several pages of posts give the appearance that they are being tended to.

Definitely don't quit posting! Be persistent here as well as working and fighting for your marriage. Good things are worth pursuing! MB is a good thing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ttsmm,

How are you doing? Hope things are going OK.

Rho

TTSM: Plan A is really a strategy to seperate a spouse from a lover. So, I don't think you should be in Plan A. I think you should be negotiating for everything, with the possible exception of moving back to the house. I think you should. It is your house as much as hers, right? I see no reason to sleep in the basement, either, or the locks, unless you fear she might be violent. If you could convince her to agree to this, it would be much better, though. You will obviously have to come up with an offer of something she wants in exchange for doing this.

Anyway, I assume you have read What Are Plan A and Plan B?, right? If you are going to continue with Plan A, there are a couple terrific posts about Plan A and not being a doormat that are worth reading, if you have not already, at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A

I almost never read long posts with multiple pages, because I figure the posters are getting support already, and I'll just say something someone else has already said, which is mostly a waste of time. Don't know why I read this one today.

All,
Funny. I received very little replies (# of different people, not # of actual postings) from this post, that I finally started a new one. Plan A? Feels Like I'm Spinning My Wheels
Now, I'm receiving reponses to the thread you are reading.
God this is so confusing.

I want to close down this thread, for replies. My new thread is less whiny and I felt, comes to the point quicker. What do I know, I am only here for six weeks.

John,
Thank you for reading my post. I have most of those Plan A posts, but should probably re-read them. I have read so much over the past few months, books, emails, forums, my eyes are getting bleary.

Rhodie,
Thank you for your words. I don't feel like I have a plan in place. As I mention in my new thread, I do feel like I am spinning my wheels. I am on more of a roller coaster than I think my W is. Maybe.

Yzzil,
While I appreciate your honesty, I am not choosing a D and...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Nothing excuses what you did, but she doesn't seem to be even slightly interested in fixing things between you.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is her reason for not filing for a D right now?
  Why does she flip-flop on her dealings with me?
  You don't think she wants to try at all?</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We don't really know how your interactions with her go. All we know is what you write down and no matter how accurately you put it, there are many important elements missing. For instance, the tone of your voice, your facial expressions, your body languages, etc, etc.
There are so many things that can put her off or get her angry. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you completely. I very well maybe sending off opposite signals between my words and my vocal intonations and facial expressions. I have tried to monitor this. Only she could answer that.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My BF seems to be ultra sensitive to ANGER ... he feels that I'm always angry at him and that he's never angry, etc.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am definitely full of anger. I am doing work to find out why and how to manage that. Now though, she gets more angry then me. She will say things that will set me off and either pretend she doesn't know why I'm angry, or say I shouldn't be angry over what she said.
Chauvanistic remark (IMHO & those of both men and women I know) - Women are better at pushing men's buttons, than men are at pushing women's buttons. After a women does, she seams oblivious to why men get angry.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Having said all of that:
I don't want to sound negative, but I just don't see the point in trying with someone who's so unresponsive!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree with a lot of the direction you are going in with this. I have read many postings about a spouse being "unresponsive", and how you need to hang in there.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Have you considered a fresh beginning with someone else? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't believe in A DISPOSABLE MARRIAGE. And until SHE signs D papers, that tells me that she doesn't know what she wants.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you want to be back with her for HER or for your children? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Both. Over the last year I have been building a better life for her, the kids, and myself: the house, lowering our bills, planning vacations, going out, etc.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What is it about her that makes you want to get her back? I think I asked this question before but I don't remember if you answered. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Through out our entire R and M, I have not be able to put into words. Maybe that is a problem. BUT - I can remember a lot of good times...
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On a beach in St. Martens.
  Peach picking with her and our then 3 yr old D.
  Vacations in Cancun, San Francisco, Vero Beach...
  She nursed me back to health: During Christmas - our 1st year together - when she was suppose to be with her family; when I caught chicken pox two years ago and was bed bound for 12 days.
  Our great times just relaxing and watching a movie on our sofa.
  Her classiness and her style at a party.
  Her looks (EN).</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unfortunately, with my PA and her EA (PA?), I am slowly losing touch with those WONDERFUL moments. I do know, in my heart, that if we were doing the principles in HNHN, we would have a loving R. We (both of us are responsible for the state of the M) did not devote the time effort to work through our issues. We both have very strong opinions, and have been unwilling to let go/give in (compromise). I know my reasons why; I was a doormat when growing up. I learned from a great source - my mother. My dad was out of the picture when I was 10 or so. Now I AM willing to compromise with my W (other people, not so much - my being controlled by other issues). But I am working on this as well. Her reasons for her unwillingness to compromise - I DO NOT KNOW. SHe might have mentioned it to me in the past, but I probably didn't LISTEN and/or GET IT.
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BINthereDUNthat,
Thanks. I did start a new post, and I want to shut this one down. I will continue to post.
All,
Go to Plan A? Feels Like I'm Spinning My Wheels
for add'l postings.

I will be updating that thread with my latest goings on.


Thanks,
TTSMM

<small>[ July 24, 2003, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: tryingTOsaveMYmarriage ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do know, in my heart, that if we were doing the principles in HNHN, we would have a loving R. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You probably know this, but I want to emphasize it (the Cerri link above does, too) - the most important part of Plan A is not meeting needs. It is Protection. The anger is probably a big part of why she is not responsive.

When I was angry and tempted to lash out, I used to stuff it. Now, I look behind the anger (which is a secondary emotion) to see the primary emotion that is causing it - hurt, fear, or frustration. Then, I deal with that, and tell her what makes me frustrated, afraid, or hurt. Since anger is a way to avoid feeling the primary emotion, and I had a long history of stuffing it, this has not been easy for me. I had developed the habit of avoiding awareness of these emotions. Now it sometimes it takes hours or days for me to understand what the underlying cause is, but I am gettng better at being self-aware with time. I hope this helps.