</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rookie:
<strong>rOuter, dont know how I posted the last message 3 times, but????

Hey, if you think you might need the AD's, I'd make a bet you most absolutley do.

TooMuchCoffeeMan is correct in mixxing the plan A and the 180 list, made a big differance here. From her leaving the house to returning two days later when I started acting like I cared, but could go on, stopping the I love you and such, and yes TMC, she did lay the statement, I came back, but there is still the possibility that it wont work and we'll get divorced, my response, I want it to work, but, if that is what you want to make you happy, there is nothing I can do to stop you.

Not much talk lateley of divorce, but there is still some comments.

rOuter, please,,, for your own self, start the 180,at least you feel like you have a minimal control over your life at this time instead of getting punched in the head on a daily basis and sit there asking for more.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Great job rookie for even if your M ends in divorce you can proudly say that you gave it your best, and it will be your WW that will have to carry the ghosts of regret for the rest of her life.

rookie,
Glad to hear that the plan is making a difference! I agree with TMCM in congratulating you for coming to terms with the situation. I guess I have, (Somewhere way back in the back of my mind) also come to the realization that it could go either way, I just don't like not being in control. I don't like, and am not used to, feeling inadequate or "not good at" anything. And that is how I feel about my marriage right now. Think I'll call a Dr. friend of mine right now.

r0uter

I have to go now, scheduled MC session. I will be back...

r0uter

ROuter, very glad to hear your going to see your Dr. for meds., believe me, you'll wonder how you were able to keep your control and function in life at this time without em. I always thought that med's were for wimps who could not face reality and used them as a escape, how very wrong I was.

May I suggest when you go for your three day trip, wait for her to call, even if the phone rings, dont pick it up, wait to get her message and respond a hour or so later afterwards, try to sound happy, ask about the kids, how are things at home, is everything alright, DO NOT ASK if she spoke with the OM, if she misses you or end the conversation with I love you.....A MUST....., throw some doubt her way for a change.

One thing you did not address, is the OM married, if so, get on the phone tonight and speak with his wife,,, simply explain that you believe that you and her both are sharing a common problem, she'll probably knock you outta the chair by saying I know and open up to you with what she know/suspects is going on. Was one of the best things I did, they can no longer hide.

Good luck, let me know how the MC session went, KEEP POSTING

Feeling a bit better today, even w/o meds. (Had to schedule an appt.)

Pretty good MC session yesterday, talked about unmet EN. It was enlightening to hear her say some of the things she feels that she needs, but confusing because I feel like I have been meeting those ENs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
The OM is married and he and his are getting a D. She found out the same day I did when we were on the cruise together!! Can you believe the timing!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Trying not to call and talk, but old habits die hard. I called her to let her know that I had arrived, and out of habit told her ILY. Oh well, there's always next time.

r0uter

<small>[ June 24, 2003, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: r0uter ]</small>

rOuter, glad your MC session went ok, Mine feels at this point that she does not even want to go, tired of telling her life history.

It's not good the OM is getting divorced, my wife's OM is also, kinda puts ya in a bad position as they, being the OM will pursue the A more than ever, im my opinion, my wife's OM is getting divorced because of the A and it lays a big guilt trip on her.

I'm really getting tired of the sulking and distant stares, she called this morning sporting for a arguement. Talk bout draining the LB's.

I wish there was at least a little encouragement on her part that she is trying, this is getting old, but I have to stay on course.

She is to the point that she does NOTHING around the house and is showing no interest in anything. I've suggested to her to seek medication for depression, she states that she is not depressed.

Rookie

Rookie,

Hang in there.

You are right about the OM and the pursuit of the A thing. In fact, at MC yesterday the counselor left the room for a second and my wife turned to me and asked if what I wanted was for her to stop talking to him altogether. (Of course that IS what I want, but I maintained my cool) We were on the subject at the time so she just asked me, and I replied, "why don't we see what she (the counselor) says about it?". I was hoping that the counselor would say yes, you need to stop talking to him. But instead, she asked what the conversations were about.
My wife said that she just missed him (Called him her best friend) and most of the time it was to "Bounce and idea or thought off of him" because she values his opinion and is not afraid of him judging her. (BTW I have never been accused by her of being judging <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ) To which the counselor informed her that she should be careful because he might well have a hidden agenda! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
I thought this was a pretty good approach, and at the time my wife did not react very strongly, but did agree that that could be the case.

I just got off of the phone with her (she called left a message for me to call, I waited and called her back!) She was in a good mood and told me that she is going to re-commit to trying and will not talk to him anymore! Yesterday she was trying to put a time frame on how long she would try to "get the feelings back". Today she just said "I will try until I can't anymore and then I will tell you it is time for a D."

Am I wrong in thinking that this is a very positive sign? I won't be sure until I get home and see if she has her wedding ring on. She knows how much that bothers me, so I have my fingers crossed.
I refuse though to get too excited because I know that that can lead to a huge disappointment. But at the same time I need to use some of that to create a positive energy that I can take back with me.

I am sorry that your wife doesn't want to return to MC. If she feels like she is just repeating her life history everytime maybe the counselor isn't approaching it right. Our counselor got a history, and does refer back in time quite a bit, but not to the point where you feel as if you are repeating anything. Perhaps you should suggest finding a different counselor. It could not only get her back to sessions, but might make all the difference in the world!
At any rate, hang in there and keep venting here! You can come here to yell all you like, especially if it give you the strength to go on.

Take Care,
r0uter

rOuter, it's that my wife has been to a couple differant couselors, and that is why she is saying she is tired of repeating the story.

I'd be very wary of a counselor that does not advise total break off with the OP, the suggestion should be no contact what so ever, I'd be looking to see someone else.

Talk bout head games, she tries to engage me in a arguement on the phone today, comes home early as she has a test tonight and she needed to study.
She is in a great mood and I get a very passionate kiss and she started talking bout the interest rates going down and that we really should start thinking bout buying another house.
Roller coaster city.............

I think by not argueing with her, I caught her offguard and did not give her a reason to stay iritated at me....

Get your prescription yet for AD's,, dont forget bout that. You do need em now just to keep things on a even keel, good luck.
Rookie

rookie,
I thought about what you said about the counselor not telling her to break it off completely and I agree except that I had a good feeling that if put to her moral judgement, my wife would ultimately make the right decision.
I am hesitant to suggest a different counselor because she actually brings up many of the same principles that made this sight interesting and helpful. My wife feels very comfortable with her too, and I know that if I suggested we go somewhere else she would stop going.

So your wife came home in a completely different mood than she portrayed over the phone? Great, I say take what you can get! Anything is better than the cold shoulder argumentative type.
It would thrill me right now to get a passionate kiss from my wife. Most of the time all I get is a peck; and most of those are turned to the cheek!

Keep on Keepin' on..

r0uter

Sometimes you just have to find the humor in even the worst situations....

I've spoken her several time how the wife stated she felt no passion and made the statements that she loves me but not in love with me. I've been patient and told her that when she is ready to make love, I'd be there, just let me know.

Well last night she made it obvious that the time was right,,,,HOWEVER,,,, our ten year old son who just returned from the west coast today, we live in the mid-west had gone to bed, due to the time differance he could not sleep and proceeded to kncok on the door and cry when he could not fall asleep, this was a rare situation where both the wife and I were able to laugh till we almost cried.

Just gotta keep hangin in there....

Rookie

Seems like I always know when she talks to the OP at work,, last night she was friendly and everything was fine. Today I call her at work and she is moody and the ice queen, no real point to this post other than venting. We'll see what tonight brings.

rookie

rookie,

I know what you mean, I could always tell when mine had talked to the OM too. Then she says to me, "I just thought you should know, I talked to him this week." She was shocked when I said, "I know. Do you think I just fell off the truck?"

Anyway, it's too bad that she has to see him at work. It doesn't help with the temptation factor if she knows that he is rigth there. I am sure that she keeps it in the back of her mind that she can just walk over and talk whenever she wants. And I suppose for her that makes coping a lot more difficult too. Maybe you should talk to her about that so that she realizes that you are aware of the difficulties she faces as well!? Maybe let her know that if she feels like she needs to talk about him or just talk that you are there for that too.

The OM here lives next door, and now there is a "For Sale" sign in the front yard.
Not sure how to feel about that.

r0uter

rOuter, the for sale sign is good news for you,,, he cant move far enough.

I've already asked her to keep her conversations to a minimal. I asked her today if she was feeling a bit anxious with hime there and if it was causing her distress because of her emotional attachment, she said yes. Last night was a good night with her, gonna see what the attitude is tonight with the OP not around.

Again worth repeating, I cant believe that we have never strayed, but we are the ones that are fighting for our marriages, some things are just not fair at all. But atleast we can say if it dont work out, WE tried.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rookie:

Again worth repeating, I cant believe that we have never strayed, but we are the ones that are fighting for our marriages, some things are just not fair at all. But atleast we can say if it dont work out, WE tried. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Remember that life AIN'T fair, it never has been and never will.

But lets look at it another way. Even if your M does end in divorce, you will also have learned so much about relationships and how to make them work, that it WILL dramatically improve the odds in your favor of having a much better M or relationship in the future. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of your WW.

Ahhh... A wise posting indeed, TMCM!!

I had thought that same thing earlier as I read some of the other threads. You can't help but learn here. And you have the added benefit of having a ready-made support group for all future relationships!

I haven't talked to her all day, and I am jonesing to here her voice. I wish that she knew how much I love her and miss her when I am away from her. I try to tell her, but... words just can't describe it.

Rookie,
I have the same thoughts all the time... I was in the Navy for ten years, and spent time in places where all you had to do was look a girl and she would follow you home. (Amsterdam was very nice! {Although they wouldn't follow you home}) And I never did anything with anybody. It was very tempting at times though.
The thing that I keep going back to though, is that I am partly responsible for creating an atmosphere at home that made her start looking elsewhere. I have to accept that part of it.

Hope she calls me soon!

r0uter

rOuter, I like you do accept my part in this, maybe I was a bit naive and never considered there was more to the M than taking care of things and being a good father, always assumed our love was strong enough to carry us through the rough spots.

Were you ever stationed at Great Lakes while in the navy?,,,, was in the army myself, how much better could it get, Uncle Sam paid for a 16 month camping/hunting trip with all expenses paid.
You've never seen the world till ya see it throught the hatch of a tank.....

Rookie,

Nope never went to Great mistakes Err.. I mean Lakes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I was a crew member on P-3's, never saw the deck of a ship! I did take a tour of a Sturgeon class Sub though.

How was she yesterday?

r0uter

Morning rOUter, as was expected yesterday, moody.
Later in the evening we talked and I explained that if this was going to work, there needed to be some effort on her part, got the I dont know routine, and, I broke the plan, told her that if I was the only one that was going to make a attempt this whole thing was going to end. Told her I was going finish fixing the home and put it up for sale and we could part as I was not going to live like this for a extended period of time. She at this point explained that if she was not trying whe would'nt be here or feeling so guilty about all that has happened.

Today, she called twice so far from work to see how things are going, what a roller coaster.

How are things yourself, any effort on her far so far, or is it the same lines, what we should do is keep a post of all lines given, they all are the same. Believe me,,, I've learned alot through all of this, thinking about taking up marriage counseling, I've read enought to qualify as a expert and with the hands on experience how could I not be.

Rookie

Rookie,

Yeup, the old "If I wasn't trying, I wouldn't be here." line. I've heard it too! Maybe she is right, sounds like maybe she is a bit scared, too.
When you mention selling the house and ending it she responds. Same thing for me. She has told me to leave a couple of times. And when I keep my cool and we talk some more she admits that if I wa to really pack up when she says that that she would tell me to stay. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
I know she has a habit of saying things that she doesn't mean when she is angry, so I have learned to cope with that.
My WW has actually shown some improvement, but the real proof, as I mentioned earlier, will be when I get back home from being gone.

Anniversary this weekend, don't know how all out I should go to make it a special time. Don't want to go through a lot of trouble and then not get anything in return. Any ideas?

r0uter

Simply sharing the same space is NOT working on the M. If she was truthful in her desire and willingness to rebuild the M, then she has to understand that she is going to have to back up her words with deeds. Let her know that the two of you must start following Dr Harley's Basic Concepts AND The Four Rules For A Succesful Marriage otherwise all the talk about rebuilding the M is just that, talk with nothing to back it up. If she scoffs at this, then you better start to accept the truth that what you have at the moment is nothing more than a false recovery.