sorry SAB.....I thought your name WAS sue???? Where did I get that???

ginger,

Thanks for sharing some more of your life....I know how private you are, and I know that it's difficult for you. It looks like we have something in common....the "pleaser" mentality. Yep, that's me. My giver has been on steroids for so long that I hardly know how to control the dang thang. I'm going to tell you a secret though......pssssst.....Until I learned to be honest, open, assertive and control my GIVER NOT my TAKER....my marriage was awful. I didn't understand how much damage I did to my marriage by continuing my pleaser ways....but I'll get to that soon. We're getting close to the end of this story.

hurtinhart.....I wish that being able to examine pain in others....could...would lesser our own pain. It doesn't. There is no degree of worse when it comes to heartache. It's kinda like being pregnant....you can't be a little pregnant. You are doing just fine....I haven't been by your thread for a while...but I promise to catch up soon. hugs.

SAB.....I was so shocked by the similarities in our childhoods. One day....I'll tell you that story too. Like yours, it's hard to get through and hard to even listen to. I could feel every blow as I read your story....and I couldn't help but weep for the loss of innocence....yours, mine...and the other innocent children who endure this. At least I know....my children will be loved and cherished and that the legacy is dead.

The date is July, 2001. I am waiting for my husband to come home. I'm not crying. I have no tears, no love, no hope....and no forgiveness. I want one thing and one thing only....a divorce. I've prepared a homecoming for him. It's a business presentation done on power point with a slide show, charts and graphs, numbers and statistics recording the financial and moral downfall of my marriage. It's clinical and unemotional because I feel emotionally dead.

I asked my husband to sit at the computer and play it. The kids were not at home. The house was silent and he watched. What I expected, was the normal anger and disinterest that usually greeted my complaints and concerns. I expected no less then fury. But that didn't happen. What I found was a broken broken man who had looked at the darkest side of his heart and was repulsed by it. He had abandoned his family, his vows, his morals and even his sanity seemed to be at stake. He could not wrap his mind around his own depravity. He was afraid and humbled. This....this....I did NOT expect.

I cautioned my heart to steel itself to my resolve and not to be fooled. And yet, never in all the years of my marriage had I ever seen my H in a position of sincere grief and remorse. He crumbled at my feet. He begged me to take him back and I was unmoved and uninterested. And then, he did the only thing I could not have predicted. He admitted all and everything. He talked about how his lack of morality was shameful to him.....he laid open his soul and cried for it. This is not something my husband can do....would do. Yet he did. And it was astonishing and disconcerting.

Still, I held to my resolve. I brought my children together to tell them....and the cry that went up was unbelievable (at that time they were 18, 16 and 4). It's hard for me to understand this...but they begged me to stay with him. They begged me not to further destabilize their lives. They told me I was selfish for tearing apart our family. He was so pitiful, they sympathized with him.

I searched my heart. I prayed for guidance. My friends and family urged me to leave him. My children urged me to stay....and God left the choice to me. I decided that IF I would move and hold my marriage and family together that changes....REAL changed would have to occur. I wrote a up a legal contract. In it, were all the things that H would have to commit to in order for me to move overseas with him. It covered everything from permission to leave the country with my children if I wanted to at anytime.....to specific time commitments to individual and marriage counseling. It was all spelled out. The deal breakers were clear and rigid. I didn't expect him to sign it. It had to be signed and witnessed in front of a public notary. And that's what he did.

One of the things I specified....since my H is Catholic....is that he had to go to confession before we moved. He had to purge his soul to God. He went on a Saturday afternoon and I waited in the car for him. He came out white as a sheet.....silent and broken again. I asked him what happened. This may sound impossible...it seemed so to me....but the priest would NOT absolve him. He said his sins were too great and that he would have to do a more specialized accounting and absolution. I think for the first time in his life....my husband faced his humanity and failings. What he saw was frightening and sobering. He fell into a deep depression......a state so foreign to him that he had no idea what was happening to him. It is hard to keep your heart cold in the face of true humility and grief. I was not able to.

That was the state of my marriage when we moved back to Caracas. I'll continue from there next.

Hello Star.

Thanks once again for sharing more of your life,more of your strength with me.With us all.

I was out of town all day most of the day alone,alot of time for me to think and reflect.I have a lot of work to do on me.

I spent part of the day shopping somthing I have not done or even wanted to do for a very long time.I use to love to go shopping.
I did not buy anything I planned on buying.Instead I bought some silly stuff.Some feel good things probably things that were a big waist of money but it is something that I have not done in so long I look at it now as a small step of Ginger coming back.For the last 9m.I have had NO desire to do anything that even this little thing was probably one of the biggest accomplishments for me since d-day.

I don't know if any of you know who Mary Engelbreit is but I love all of her stuff,I bought a new coffee mug of hers and it says on it "SNAP OUT OF IT" I think I will have my morning coffee in it every day until that saying sinks in.LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well have a good night/day I'm not sure which it is I guess it depends on the time zone your in.
Talk to you all again soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I just caught up on this thread.

I have alot of catching up to do. I will probably spend alot of time reading

Ginger I just love you lol,, you are a breathe of fresh air and i love that saying on your mug think of me when you drink your coffeee,,,,, Im proud of you now you need to go buy yourself a new outfit,, forget about how much it costs you are so worth it luv hurtin

Star , thank you so much for all you have said ,, I know you dont realize what you have done for me, and possibly others who have read your life story. I think before i speak now I really try hard ,, I admire your strengths and your abilitys to do what you have to do ,, thank you, once again.. hurtinhart

Well ladies, It's time to push on....

It is the fall of 2001. I have moved back to Caracas with my husband. I found a gorgeous penthouse apartment with a small pool on the upstairs patio overlooking the city.(don't be impressed....it's a city of penthouses....mountain top apartment buildings). For those of you who have never been to Venezuela, Caracas is a city of 7 million people. The city is nestled in a high mountain valley. About 10 percent of the people are incredibly wealthy and live in lavish apartments and haciendas....the rest live in abject poverty in sprawling barrios (slums) that extend in every direction in the city. It's a high life for those with money....restaurants, music, servants....but the poverty always weighed me down.

Still, we got settled easily, having been there before. We found old friends and were welcomed back into the American School. There was the promise of a new start....but it seemed like an empty hollow promise. I was shattered. I walked around like a zombie. I could barely eat, and sleep was impossible. My H began his individual counseling (I knew a good counselor there) and she felt he needed some extensive work before we could begin marriage counseling. She saw me a couple of times and prescribed some anti depressants and gave me some things to sleep.

At that time, there was no amount of remorse that was enough remorse for me. I needed answers and details.....but each time I got them I felt worse for a while. Inspite of the counseling, my H was falling into a deep funk. He has a very even temper and generally happy personality. He began to withdraw. He would come home and seek solitary space. He didn't engage me. He didn't engage the kids. We basically became like two animals who pass eachother and sneer. I was beginning to hate him because he was no longer someone who I knew. Everything I loved about him appeared to compromised. I treated him with disdain and sarcasm. I didn't like myself much either.

He no longer wanted to answer any of my questions or talk about our relationship. I told him that fall....my famous line "If what you have done doesn't destroy us....my reaction to it will." I couldn't get past it. I couldn't get the pictures out of my head. I felt really like I was going insane. I began to think....that it was a huge mistake to have moved with him and that started to mentally pack up my house. *I'll leave this....I want this* I was surprised at how little I actually wanted.

The marriage counseling began, but it seemed like we were getting nowhere. Christmas was a hollow day. The tree was there. The children. Friends. We went through the motions. We laughed with others in public and avoided eachother in private. Months had passed and we seemed no closer to getting past the pain than we were when we started.

When the new year began, 2002....it was like something inside of me awakened. In those solitary months while I ran up and down the mountains of Caracas I would think about my life. I realized that I was spending an enormous amount of time....suffering for something I had not done. I began to ask myself "why should I be so unhappy because he is so souless? I didn't deserve his treatment, and I had the power to change my life." I leapt from the paralyzation of those early months...into a time of rejuvenation for me. Just me. I didn't care where he was. I began to focus my energy on my own spirit and I could feel my life force begin to grow like a warmth inside of my heart.

I can remember an evening when the boys and I were playing cards and laughing in the living room. H came in and they little one begged him to come and play (they were so happy to see the pall lifted in the house and wanted him to participate) but he only slinked away to lay again in the back with the TV and the alcohol. I didn't know this man he was so somber. Always the charmer, and funny man....he was haunted the house instead like an apparition.

This night, in a moment of empowerment....I followed him back there instead of letting him ruminate. I leaned over him and told him "H, I have no intention of wasting one more day of unhappiness for you. If you wish to punish yourself or punish me....til the end of time...you will have to do it alone. Your children and I are going to have fun. We're going to play and laugh and remember who we are. We would like for you to join us, but if you don't....we will go on without you." Then I left him there alone in the dark.

So as the weeks of the beginning of that year played out, my life returned to me. The marriage counseling was not progressing. That frustrated me. Traditional MCing is slow and laborous and I was ready to pick up the pace. I felt better. I felt ready to forgive or throw in the towel. Antsy. So I sat down at the computer one day and I typed into the search engine "INFIDELITY". At the top of the list was Marriage Builders.

GM Star,
Just what I need this am,some of your strength.

I know that something has changed for me what I I'm not sure of.But I am beginning to feel happier.My D told me over the weekend that I look not so tired and happier than she has seen me in a very long time.

We are at the point I think of what you wrote about,I am tired of wasteing time,but still wanting to make him hurt for what he has done.What I did not realize or really maybe I have but have not wanted to believe it is,that I don't need to hurt him he has hurt himself.Some how little by little I am finding the power to be happy again.I know that only "I" can make me happy.

There are still so many unanswered questions about the A that bother me,I doubt I will ever get an answer for them.There is still little change in him but the little that is there is a positive change.I guess I need to learn to count my blessings not my misfortunes!!!!!!!

Thank you Star for letting me in to a little more of your life and who you are,a wonderful,amazing,strong woman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have to agree with Ginger.

Star, you are amazing.

Here, here. I second that motion.

I third that motion,,, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Star you are trully strong and I know I hope to be as strong as you. Ginger my friend you are also strong even though you feel you are not. You are an amazing person and you are gonna make it you will see. Hurtinhart

Thanks for the vote Hurtin I needed that!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi Guys,

I've been around quite a while, but am now here under a new identity...kinda hiding out for reasons undisclosed here.

BUT...Star, you know who I am.

Ginger, I have followed for a long time. You are amazing and very strong.

All...Star, I agree, is an amzing woman and a great role model.

Ginger...any success with resurrecting the first 3 chapters? I was one of those asking for it.

We gotta get her to write a book!

*S*

ginger, SAB, hurt, Swh, *sparkles*....you are all so wonderful. Please know that I read each of your stories and feel the same way about all of you.

ginger I am particular happy to hear that you are feeling happier....that is a blessing....and a gift you give yourself.

We are nearing the end of this story. The first 3 chapters....I will try to summarize again at some point....just so it is all here. I have ceased bouncing all over the board...but I still look in on all of you when I can. Silly me, I thought if I just spent less time here....I wouldn't be so involved, but I am doing so much of the same off board....heheheh....it hardly matters.

We must come up with a name for this group of ladies. Danish of course will be an honorary member. I emailed her, but haven't gotten a reply....think I'll try again.

hugs all around.....I'll finish this up soon

First I would like to say a big thank you to all who have said that I am strong.
I do not feel strong,to be truthful most of the time I feel like a babbling fool.But thanks.

As I look over my life I see so much failure,maybe I set my goals to high and really did not fail completly just came short of the goal and not always because of me,but issues of life.I am learning that this is ok that I do not have to be everything to everyone.A very hard thing for me.

I still have a long way to go in recovery,I wonder some days if I will ever reach the end of the tunnel and come out to the light.

But for today I can laugh about somethings,give a smile or an encouraging word about other things and this is good,very good.When I look in the mirror today I do not feel such pain and torment as before.So maybe just maybe I am headed in the right direction.

bump for Star*

Hi all.....I guess this bump is to remind me I haven't finished this story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I found and registered on MB in March of 2001. The rest of my story is chronicled all over this board. I will try to sum up the high points and how finding MB changed the future for me. Yes there were set backs and challenges, but there is no doubt in my mind that this site was the beginning of finding solutions to marital problems that existed throughout my marriage. It's scary to think about where I would be if I hadn't found it....I know my marriage would be vulnerable....but really, more truthfully...it would not exist at all.

I got wonderful advice in the beginning....but some of it....was not what I needed and I wouldn't discover that for a very long time. In April of that year, my husband suggested we go to one of the seminars. He was reading the material from the site, and we filled out the questionaires....not an easy task considering we had very little practice in compatibility. We began to portion out the 15 hours a week. Yet those fifteen hours were for the most part excruciating. We would end up in relationship talks that drained the bank. I was harboring alot of resentment for not just the cheating, but all of the decisions he had made in the recent past. He was guilty and resentful that I couldn't seem to leave the past behind. Neither of us seemed to be able to find closure.

The hopefulness of that spring, finding a place to begin and put my energy began to fade as my husband refused to follow through with the assignments from the seminar. In the beginning I religiously did mine, and slowly realized when he wouldn't that I was wasting my time. He had learned all he believed was necessary, and started to resent having to do more or talk using these terms anymore. It got old quickly for him......and he began to just use the concepts that were comfortable, and ignore the ones that required him to make pages. Steve Harley once described it to me using the metaphor of MB being like a buffet dinner for him. He walked down the line and picked and chose those things he liked. I was seriously beginning to believe that perhaps I had raised my hopes for nothing.

One of the things, looking back...that stalled our recovery....was the infamous Plan A. Yes I did a long and hard plan A at the urging of folks here. It was extrememely helpful in the very beginning when my H was in withdrawal. He did come out of withdrawal. He did bask in the glory of having his needs met. He did fall back in love with me. It worked. It just didn't work for me. He told me everyday he loved me, and I spent months feeling nothing, because loving me, and getting his needs met....didn't encourage him to meet mine. Harley says men and women respond differently to Plan A. When a womans needs are met....she feels prettier, sexier, more like to fill h's needs. When a man's needs are met....he wants MORE. That's what my husband wanted. He wanted more. It was never enough, and yet it didn't model his behavior at all. And all the while, I cried myself to sleep at night and hosted "Insomniac Theater" here on EN when he'd fall asleep peacefully and my heart still ached so badly that sleep just wouldn't come. I cried and posted at night....put on an act during the day.

I plan A'd until I began to disappear. I invisible, like my body/myself was just vanishing. The love I received from him, and even my children, stopped giving me joy. It was like eating a beautiful dish....and having it taste like cardboard. Truly, I found thoughts of leaving creeping back into my daily musings. "how would I do it?" "what would I say?". I have no doubt he would have been entirely shocked..."why leave NOW? I don't understand"

Had I known then, that Plan A had exceeded it's usefulness....that I needed a recovery plan that addressed my needs too....I would have done that. But I didn't know. And I had other lessons to learn....the ones that would ultimately get me where I wanted to be.

I passed the summer in this invisible state....meeting needs and burying feelings and tears. Yet on a personal level, I was not dead but on a journey of discovery. I came to MB and made connections. I involved myself in things that interested me. I worked in the orphanage there and was active at the school and with my children. I really like who I was....but I disliked where I was. I began to believe that I couldn't change where I was until my life changed dramatically. I completely lost faith in my husband's ability to change and meet me as a partner in my marriage. I could see what appeared to me......a lifetime of catering to someone who would never cherish me. I wanted to be cherished, considered, protected, appreciated. I could not see that happening....I could not envision it EVER happening.

Toward the end of that summer, my husband took a trip. It was a trip that I objected to, but he ignored my objections.....and kept after me long enough that resisting became too painful. I gave in.....but I resented him going. I dislike him for going. The political situation in Venezuela was such that I did not feel safe alone, and here was going to fly to Miami and help bring a yaght from there, through the Carribean, and back to Ven. He promised me it was a trip that would take six days....but I knew that was a lie. I decided to go and visit my sister while he was gone. She has MS and is severely disabled. It wasn't exactly a vacation, but I needed to see her and I thought it was a good chance to help her while getting out of Ven.

I was bitter about his trip. When he called from different ports.....I tried to be cordial....but I was looking for an escape....thinking about leaving. And then the strangest thing happened. He was lost at sea.

So I'll pick it up there when I go on.

I really can't believe you all are still reading all of this. But as long as you ask....I will keep writing. I thought you would have lost interest long before now....so it's a bit surprising..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

are you there?

page 52....can I help you with something? Are you looking for me?

More please...