Hope,

I appologize for making a thread directly to you, but your situation is somewhat similar to mine, and many of the exact feelings that you have expressed are what my husband is feeling and says. If you would, could you lend your perspective?

Last night, H came over to talk, and I was answering questions. Some of them were very hard questions, where my answers caused a lot of pain. Vice versa. Many times after questions, he would say "I don't believe you." And I would say "All I can do is tell you the honest truth." We spoke about how he wouldn't and I didn't yet deserve trust from him.

Well, finally, he asked a question, and as soon as I got a sentence out, he immediately said "Now I know I don't believe that." A look of sheer frustration came over my face (he thought it was disgust), and he stormed out. He then later came back and said that I need to reevaluate how committed I was because he was going to to be all over me if he did decide to make it work. I do not feel any less committed. Although I understand that my look was inappropriate.

I did not intentionally make the face. It had been 48 hrs since I had any sleep, and I was excessively tired. In addition, every discussion we have had since then has been at least 4 hrs and very emotional.

What do I do when I know I should not have been or shown frustration - I know it was wrong, but it was pure instinct - there was no thought behind it. I was just so tired, and there had been so many emotional digs (rightfully deserved, btw) that I faltered. I guess it's not an excuse. But I don't want to be any less committed, and I am prepared to do what it takes. But because of that face, he now does not believe me and does not want to continue talks. At this point, I don't know how far back my action has set us....

In addition, apparently he was considering not leaving town, but after last night, he now is again. Any thoughts on if space really would help the issue?

Sorry to bother you, but from your posts, you have given me some very sound advice and views. Thank you for everything.

Sorry to sabatoge this post, but I have a very important question for you. If the OM would not have called it off, would you still be seeing him?? The reason I ask, is I would like to know if you found out you really messed up and truly love your H now because of the A breaking up. Alot of times the WW run back to the safety net after a failed A, and I would really like to know what brought you back to reality. Im not trying to disrespect or hurt you.

Lost,

I think you are trying to do the same thing I am. We are trying to fast forward the recovery process, but it doesn’t work that way. The fact that you are posting “In Recovery” is the first clue. I’m sorry, but I don’t think you are even close to that yet.

You have to continue to be honest with your H, whether he believes you or not. His feelings and emotions are very raw right now and there is really not much you can do to help. Time helps, counseling helps. I would highly recommend, if you have not already, you both see a marriage counselor. My individual sessions have been very helpful for me.

Over the past month, my W and I have had little progress and many setbacks. I believe she is still in the withdrawal phase. You may be too, and may be in denial about it. I don’t know.

Space may or may not help. I know that’s not the answer you’re looking for. I do know space away from pain helps. If I were you, I would not initiate any more “painful” talks. At this point, actions speak louder than words. Show him you care, but don’t overwhelm him or he will think it’s fake. That will be difficult to do if you are apart, so I guess that answers your space question.

I don’t think it matters why the affair ended. The important thing is that it is over and there is no more contact with the OM. If you are really past the withdrawal stage, you still cannot truly begin recovery until your H is ready.

Startin Over - no disrespect taken. It is a very valid question. The answer is that I truly believe "yes." My reasoning may seem slightly odd, but here it is.

The OM had "called it off" before. We were no longer seeing each other physically (he was miles away), but even after he "called it off," he continued to try to have contact with me. Hence a period where we would e-mail and discuss about how we wanted to work things out with our spouses, but still "missed each other."

The last time he called it off, instead of horror, emptiness, longing, I actually felt relief of a sort. I had wanted to focus on my marriage for a while but had not found the strength, courage, whatever, to stop contact with the OM.

On Tues, prior to when I planned to tell my H, OM contacted me once again. This time was different. I did not feel the desire to contact him back. I think in my heart, I had finally committed that I wanted my M to work. I could have held off from telling H, I could have called OM back and kept the pathway of communication flowing. But I did not want to.

This is going to seem particularly cold to OM's spouse, but the reason for my not returning his contact was mostly not for respect of of her, but because I loved my H, regretted what I had been doing and how much it was going to hurt him, and wanted (if H would allow me) to try to rebuild something that was better than before.

I have nothing to gain from contacting OM anymore. I have told my H that I still care about what happens to him. I hope that he is able to work it out with his W, I don't wish for him to get physically hurt, etc. But I really don't WANT him any more.

It's time that I tried to drive this mess toward some sort of peace. Even if H and I don't work it out, I still do not want to have contact with OM. There will never be peace in any of us as long as OM and I talk. And I don't want that. At least by telling H, I am allowing him to have the opportunity for the truth, and to one way or the other, be at peace with himself and our relationship.

Long answer for a simple yes or no. I'm not sure if it is the right answer, but I just want to stop hurting everybody involved. Hope this helps.

Hope - Thank you. I agree with you about trying to fast forward. I had spoken with Penny Tupy for counseling help, but I may be jumping the gun with regards to it. She wants to steer us toward recovery, but as of yet my H is not even sure if he wants to try to work it out.

You hit the nail on the head. I guess I just don't know what to do at this point. Everything I have read is about trying to recover, trying to rebuild, etc. Whereas he has not even made the decision yet.

I have actually not initiated any of the talks - the e-mail has been the only thing I sent. And after the response, I realized I needed to back off. He has initiated the talks by saying that he called or came over because he wanted to hear my voice or see me. But then questions were a secondary reason and they led to us talking.

In spite of my actions last night, I do believe that our talks have been at least marginally productive. I am being honest with him, even when it hurts both of us. And I think we are understanding each other a little more. But there is still a lot of hurt which I know will not go away soon.

Maybe space is good for us. I read that sometimes contact via phone or e-mail is best in the beginning because you can control the conversation better. Had my H not seen my face, then my frustration would have lasted 2 seconds, I would have realized that I have no right to be frustrated.

Well, just received an e-mail page from OM. Promised my H that I would not even open the pages or e-mails. Will save it for him to delete. I truly want to work it out. Thank you once again for your words. I wish my H would read some of these boards (although reading my thread might be painful). He could probably really relate to you. He needs support, and really doesn't have anyone to talk to. I have referred him to this site, but he has yet to explore.

Thanks again

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What do I do when I know I should not have been or shown frustration - I know it was wrong, but it was pure instinct - there was no thought behind it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think this was wrong at all. You were frustrated because you were telling the truth and he did not believe you. That is frustrating. It is true that he has reason not to trust you, but it is still frustrating. Saying it "shouldn't" be is just not helpful. It is.

Part of having a good marriage is being able to express our feelings honestly. A problem in both verbal and non-verbal communication in that it is not always recieved as intended. I hope the fact that you know your husband thought it was an expression of disgust means you clarified things. There is nothing wrong with feeling frustrated, or expressing that feeling, though. As far as I can see, about the only emotion it is wrong to express is anger - and even then, it is only wrong to express it if the expression is destructive, disrespectful and/or demanding (which is all too common for most of us).

What was it you said that your husband "knew" was a lie? - The reason I ask is that I had several experiences like that with my wife, and eventually found that when I had that reaction, the words she used meant something different to her than to me. Are you sure he understands the meaning behind your words?

Johnh39 - In response if the words meant something else to me than H.....I'm not sure. It was a discussion on how he thought my OM was unattractive. And the fact that I chose to be sexually and emotionally interested in OM made H feel ugly. He asked me point blank why I found my OM attractive. I started by saying that OM was not physically attractive (was going to continue by saying that his personality and his care for me made him attractive to me - it's the truth, and I just will not lie anymore). But we never got past the first part. He said "Now I know I don't believe that."

You are right in the end - what I should have done was call a time out. I feel very guilty about all this myself, and while I know my H needs/is going to lash out and say things, what he does not know is that I am still lashing out on myself. Which in turn is going to add to my own frustration overall.

Thanks for your post. My H does not see it this way, but as many people have told me, I cannot allow myself to be a doormat. You really got me with the part about expressing feelings honestly....that was/is a huge problem in our marriage. For fear that he would judge, yell, get angry, or say that I am overreacting, I really allowed myself to be walked on when it came to expressing how I was feeling. If we are going to work, I have to change that now. Thanks for pushing me in the right direction.

My reaction holds no bearing on my desire or willingness. Just an expression of what I was really feeling.....

PS - I did explain that it was frustration. He said that if I could not even handle the things he was saying to me last night, then I wouldn't be able to handle the things he would put me through in the future (as it relates to recovery).

lost,

Two things that I am picking up on that may or may not help:

First, When you REACT with emotions, you let the emotion control you, when you respond and act, you control the emotions, or something like that.

Second, instead of telling your H what it was about the OM that you found attractive, tell H how the A made you feel. In other words: what were you getting from the A that you were not getting at home? You may not have even asked yourself this question yet, but I believe it is an important one to ask. Because, whatever that was, it is the EN that needs to be filled by your H, and he should know that.

Good Luck,

r0uter

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I started by saying that OM was not physically attractive (was going to continue by saying that his personality and his care for me made him attractive to me - it's the truth, and I just will not lie anymore). But we never got past the first part. He said "Now I know I don't believe that." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL! - this is SO typical, because men and women look at sex so differently. I probably would have reacted just like your H. In this case, I think he understands your words, but just looks at things so differently that he really cannot understand how this is possible for someone else. IMO, your husband needs to hear: "his care for me made him attractive to me", though I do not know if he can understand it yet...or ever. I will say, in your H's defense, that at the point that "his care for me made him attractive to me" the attraction was physical, wasn't it? - I mean, you did respond to him physically, didn't you? Men have a visceral, instantaneaous, visual physical attraction to women. Most do not understand how the emotional connection to someone affects a woman's physical desire. Many women will say that because it is the care they are provided and the emotional connection they have that attracts them to someone, it is not "physical" - but that is simply the way physical attraction works for women. You might try this way of describing it: "It is not his APPEARANCE that made him physically attractive."

This was a huge issue for my W and I. I think if I had not understood this, we would not have made it to recovery. I think that if your H does not at least start to understand this, you will not recover, and if he ever gets remarried, his future W will have an affair and/or leave him, too.

It also sounds to me like your H is emotionally abusive. You are in a bad spot, because you have given him an excuse to be more so and for you both to feel like you deserve it. Yet, if you do not set healthy boundaries, your marriage will not recover. For you two, the LB questionaire may be more important than the EN questionnaire.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lost in tx:
<strong>... It was a discussion on how he thought my OM was unattractive. And the fact that I chose to be sexually and emotionally interested in OM made H feel ugly. He asked me point blank why I found my OM attractive. I started by saying that OM was not physically attractive (was going to continue by saying that his personality and his care for me made him attractive to me - it's the truth, and I just will not lie anymore). But we never got past the first part. He said "Now I know I don't believe that." </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had a similar discussion with my W, but a different reaction. I also thought the OM was physically unattractive. I had suspected my W was cheating, but I did not really suspect with him because she also said he was physically unattractive. The fact that she was sexually and emotionally interested in him made HER look ugly to me. I felt she brought herself down to his level. Her response about personality was the same as yours. I am still having a hard time understanding how she could have a physical relationship with someone she was not physically attracted to. I guess I just think differently.

Hope,

Your reaction is exactly what my husband said to me last night. I don't know if this will be any kind of explanation, but here goes....

Have you ever seen a girl who is either mediocre or just kind of plain jane. Yet she has a really good personality, is giving, and maybe even funny. Somewhere down the line a you want to set her up with a friend. The friend asks you if she is attractive. Initially you want to say yes - but then you realize....your first instinct when you saw her was that she was just OK. You then realize that it was her personality and who she was that made her attractive.

I have a 250lb friend that I would not say is physically pretty. But she is a great friend and has a great personality. That makes her more attractive in my book.

PS - Johnh39 - should I bring this up again with my H, or just wait for it to resurface? I don't want to reopen wounds necessarily

I also meant to include that it's possible that the physical and emotional relationships were not all that separate for your wife. They were not for me. While my H claims that he sees how I could go to someone for ENs, he doesn't see how I would go into a PA with it. For me, one of my ENs is to feel desireable....when you think about it, it's not too much of a stretch to see how someone else meeting that need could begin to bring in a physical component.

Feel free to disagree, but that's kind of how I ended up with the physical part.

Although, I am starting to understand how powerful an emotional connection can be, it really does not make me feel any better. If they had such a strong emotional connection that led to a physical relationship, that would mean her emotional connection with me was weak, and that really hurts.

Please know that I am not speaking for your wife, by any means. It is just something to consider. My H has admitted that he was incredibly uncaring and cold which is why I turned to someone else for the ENs.

If, perchance it is true, it may very well hurt. I don't think that this process is going to be without pain by any means. The way I look at it is this: There was something wrong with our relationship before.....we may not have known it, identified it, or acknowledged it. But now we have the ability to reevaluate and discover. The discoveries are painful, but the rebuilding and repairing can lead to something that is better. That is my hope for us.

Now if only my H would want to give it a try...

LIT,

I read what you wrote to KB's other half.

As a BS, I could not tell you how many times I was going to file for D. I even went as far as talking to an attorney. He gave me papers to fill out. I have not filled them out. I have had them for about 4 months now.

When I first found out, I called three attorneys the same day. Then I changed my mind. A week later, I'm looking through the phone book. I wanted to do anything to make the pain go away. The thing is, for me the thought of divorce was even more painful than what I was going through. It added to the pain that I was experiencing.

I hope that is what your H is going through.

Thank you Sue....I hope so. He did seem very cold, calm, and collected when he said it, though. I really hope we can work it out. But if not, I can't hold it against him - after all, it was my poor decision....Thanks for the support

The Cold, calm collected attitude may have been his way of trying to keep his emotions in control. He probably did not want you to see how he really felt.

Who knows, maybe he will even come here and read the concepts and find out that your M is recoverable.

Do you have any idea how many of us BS's here would love to have a spouse who wants to rebuild the M like you do with your H.

Worse case scenario would be he does not want to work on the M, and wants a divorce. He might find later that he regrets that decision. I'm sure you have gained alot of knowledge about R, and the fragility of them. One incident and the world as you knew it is changed.

LIT,

As much as my H's infidelity hurts me, at this point, I do not know why he felt compelled to have an A. I understand how it could happen. Everybody, whether they want to admit to it or not, are susceptible to being involved in an A.

During a very low part of my M, I was sure my H hated me, I was miserable in my M. I loved my H, and I wondered why I was staying in a M where he did not love me. There were times, I really questioned if I really loved him. I remember thinking I deserved some happiness, I thought about divorce, I thought about the kids, and what life would be like for them if we divorced, so I elimiated that idea. I remember thinking, how I deserve some happiness, I could cheat on him and he would never find out. He does not pay any attention to what I do. Of course, then I thought about, the kids, what if the person I had the A with, was a player, and now I get a STD, H would then find out, and it goes back to the kids. So, I talked myself out of it, and resigned myself to a less than satisfactory marriage.

So, yes, I understand how A's can happen. It does not make it right. From this website, I also learned that I can have a more than satisfactory marriage, by working at it.

I forgot you also have a thread going on over in Recovery. I wil try to stay on that one when I reply.

Get some sleep. Tomorrow is another day.

Hi LIT,

just out of curiosity, where exactly do you live in the big lone star state????
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