sorry about that! Someone was at my door and kids were screaming had to post before the oldest took over my computer! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
If you buy the book surviving an affair it will help you understand the affair! I am reading it very slowly and it is some of it is very difficult for me to read! Learn what you can from it!
Please,please vent on this site. If you are not doing well, this is great therapy to get your thoughts out! Also you might consider a journal!
ok hard to concentrate when I am being tugged and whinnnnned at!
I will be thinking of you!

Take care
Ali

So, her emotional needs were not being met inside the marriage. That happens to a lot of people.

She could have talked to her husband about it.

She could have arranged for counseling for both of them to help fix what was wrong in their marriage.

If it was really unsolvable, she could have left and started over.

But did she do any of those things? No. Instead, she did the one thing that was 100% guaranteed to make everything WORSE. And there is NO excuse for that.

To my fellow members, the name of this place is Marriage Builders NOT Marriage Blamers.

<small>[ July 11, 2003, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Thank you everyone for your input up to this point. the blame thing is not as important as why? Why did she feel justified to hurt us so bad?Or how could she rationalize such actions? Why would she look for a reason to feel justified. Our sex life was abundant it was active and satisifing. She claims she enjoyed the Sex with him because she is human, I say she enjoyed it because she wanted him and it felt good why cant she be honest? Then she said it had nothing to do with sex.That is a bit much for me to grasp.I feel that saying it had nothing to do with sex is a way to minimize the act itself. I have a question for other men that have been where I am. When will the rage I feel,when I think of him touching her, go away? When will I no longer desire to blow a hole in his head? I knew this guy, so he to must have placed his sexual desire ahead of respect for my family. So his desires wrecked my family and I'm suppose to be ok with this? I think not.

It is very rare that a married woman has sex with a man if there isn't an emotional attachment that is established first.

As Cerri (our resident MB coach) said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have yet to hear a man say.... hey if she had sex with me three (four or seven, name your number) I'd be thrilled to talk with her all she needs. Never, doesn't happen. BUT the converse is true. Women tell me every day of the week, and they show it by how they fall into affairs, they are very happy to have sex with a man who meets their need for conversation (or affection or admiration... but usually it begins with conversation)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After my divorce, and before I met my W, I had a few married female co-workers who would tell me personal things in their lives that they wouldn't confide in their H's. On more than one occasion I ask them, why can't you talk to your H the way you talk to me, and they basically told me "You care enough to listen to me while my H rolls his eyes and acts like 'when is she going to be done so I can go somewhere else?'" If I had been a predatory male, I could have easily exploited their emotional vulnerability to have sex with them like the OM did with your W.

Give this some thought, and if you haven't done so already, try to provide an emotionally safe environment where your W will open up to you instead of with others. It takes courage, and even though I don't you personally, I beleive you have it in you.

I just got off the phone with her. She again was up-beat and happy as if nothing is wrong, how long can this act go on? I mentioned counseling and her response was "if you think it will help you I will be willing to try it." I bit my lip didnt say a word. why is this about me? she is convinced nothing has anything to do with her. Is this a form of denial? I want my best friend back and this person she has become to hit the road for good. I still cant stop the feelsings of rage when I think about it, I find myself stuffing rather than dealing because of the rage can anyone tell me anything that helps with that?

Very intense sweaty workouts help disperse rage.

Go work out.

<small>[ July 11, 2003, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

She may beleive that if she doesn't bring up the subject of her A that she'll avoid hurting you.

But not expressing your emotions in a positive way, is NOT the answer either. Consider the following:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Dear wife

If I didn't love you so much, I wouldn't be feeling like my whole world has been totally destroyed by your affair. This pain I feel is being magnified by my perception that you seem to be trivializing the magnitude of my suffering. The intensity of my pain at this moment is as high as the moment you finally admitted your A to me. I need you to help me heal my emotional wounds by showing me your remorse and your pain. Only then can I be able to start moving forward towards total recovery"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope this helps.

last night was a good night until I recieved a call from the omw. We talked for quite some time until she told me the reason she had called, she came accross a letter that my wife wrote and she said she thought I should see/have it. So being the glutton for punishment that I am I met this lady and got this letter. I waited until late last night and asked my wife if she had any contact with him after this one night. (I know I asked a question I had the answer to but it was a test)she said no. I said no calls? she said no. No letters she said no? This letter is so hard to think about that I'm not sure I want to. What else is she lieing to me about? I told her I knew there was a letter and asked her to be 100% honest and tell me what was in this letter with no consequence I just want to know. And again lie's all lies. Is this the end? does this mean she will never be honest with me again?
The letter had lines in it such as "I dont regret anything" "this was a growth experience" "I view this as a good thing" " I will never regret our time" "it Was like a night out from a time warp and we went way back to 17 or 18 yrs old."
This letter was written anly a few weeks ago.
As far as I'm concerned it's over, finished I'm calling my lawyer. I have to protect myself, I have to protect my kids. I dont want to play any more

You asked, "Is this a form of denial?"

ABSOLUTELY. She is trying to avoid responsibiity for her actions. She doesn't want to acknowledge her problems (and she has them).

You asked:
"can anyone tell me anything that helps with that?"

The counseling will help. Get some recommendations and find somebody good.

It really takes a special person to look after her best interests (and yours) when you have suffered so much.

Good luck!

Have you considered the possibility that your WW's letter to the OM MAY have been a way to let him down easy? I'm not saying that it is (only she knows for sure) but it IS a possibility. What people say and what people do are two totally different things. To me actions, not words, tell everything.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2crushed:

<strong>"As far as I'm concerned it's over, finished I'm calling my lawyer. I have to protect myself, I have to protect my kids. I dont want to play any more"</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is your right if that is what you truly want BUT be aware that decisions that are made in the heat of emotional turmoil, often times come back to bite us in the a**. Your actions have consequences not only to you, your W, but to your children as well. THINK WELL before you let your emotions dictate your actions.

Our messages crossed...

I am not defending your WS, so PLEASE don't think this is a defense of her conduct.

She thinks she can't tell you the truth because it will hurt her and you too much.

YOU ASK: "What else is she lieing to me about?"

Who knows? It could be a lot. (I certainly lied every chance I could.)

YOU ASK: "Does this mean she will never be honest with me again? "

No. At some point she will just drop the games. It will take time. She has to be honest with herself first. A good counselor really helps with this.

YOU SAID: "The letter had lines in it such ..."

The letter is pretty stupid. (She ain't 17 anymore.) She is trying to rationalize her conduct. Once she emerges from the fog, she will be wondering, "What the H**** was I thinking? What planet was I living on?"

Get her and you into counseling. Be patient. Things will improve.

2Crushed where are you
are you OK

I'm here Carl thanks for asking. Things are not real good either. I'll start by saying I showed my w this web site and she got very defensive saying things like we have to get on with life your dwelling on this. I was trying to show her the very positve progress that you folks seen to have made. I'm at the end of my rope she is minimizing everything, she isnt doing anything to even begin to heal the damage she caused. She just isnt sorry or cant express it, she lives in denial, she wont come to counsling. I love her but hate what she did and who she is becoming.

Dear Devasted,,, I'm so sorry to hear about your wife's infidelity. Im in a similar situation. I have been married for 17 years to a wonderful man, we have two beautiful children. Last year I found out through my sister that he had a affair. I was and still am devasted. My heart is not whole any more, and well he also did to this woman , what your wife did to the man,, I know exactly what you are feeling. He tells me he loves me, and that it was a mistake. My sister says that she has heard that it was more than once. My husband says no. I too wanted to know all the details, I thought knowing them would be better than me making up my own in my head about how, what when etc. The thought of his hands on her and hers on him also makes me sick . Im dying inside, although I want to make our marriage work I have not stopped loving him , but I do not trust him. Can we make this work, will I ever trust again? I have no clue. He is a wonderful father and husband, and I know most who read this would say yeah right. How could he be if he did this to you. My sister knew this for a year before she told me. That hurts an awful lot also.... I just want my life back, my husband , my family.. I don't know what to do.

Dear Devasted,,, I'm so sorry to hear about your wife's infidelity. Im in a similar situation. I have been married for 17 years to a wonderful man, we have two beautiful children. Last year I found out through my sister that he had a affair. I was and still am devasted. My heart is not whole any more, and well he also did to this woman , what your wife did to the man,, I know exactly what you are feeling. He tells me he loves me, and that it was a mistake. My sister says that she has heard that it was more than once. My husband says no. I too wanted to know all the details, I thought knowing them would be better than me making up my own in my head about how, what when etc. The thought of his hands on her and hers on him also makes me sick . Im dying inside, although I want to make our marriage work I have not stopped loving him , but I do not trust him. Can we make this work, will I ever trust again? I have no clue. He is a wonderful father and husband, and I know most who read this would say yeah right. How could he be if he did this to you. My sister knew this for a year before she told me. That hurts an awful lot also.... I just want my life back, my husband , my family.. I don't know what to do.

What your WS may still be going through is that infamous "fog". (Where there is still some of the "wonder and glory" of the affair.) You might do a search for "the fog" on this website. If you have any interest in trying to save the marriage, have you looked at Plan A/Bs yet? It sometimes helps shift people out of the fog and gives you a little distance and protection. Having said that, it has been over 1 year since D-day for me. I did divorce my WS because he wouldn't come clean about the affair. I hadn't found Marriage Builders at that time. I still get times where I feel like throwing up when I think about him sharing something I thought was special between the 2 of us. The times are fewer and fewer and less intense as time goes on. We had the added complication of the OW getting pregnant. My WS was 47 and the OW was 21!! Talk about a slap to the ego! Get counseling for yourself, even if she won't go. Your deserve and need support right now. Sometimes I write letters to my WS about how sad or angry I am. I sit on them for a day or two, then decide if I want to send them. So far, I haven't. But I sure could say some condescending, mean, hateful, puntative things if I wanted to!!! Sometimes I allow myself to fantasize about what I could do or say. Again, I have chosen not to act on them for my sake. I'm better than that, and I don't want them to know that they have any power over me.(Even though it feels like they have all of the power sometimes!) Please remember, that no matter what was right or wrong with your marriage, you didn't deserve to have this happen to you. You're in my thoughts.

<small>[ July 18, 2003, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: lilymarie ]</small>

HIH: Click on the link in my signature line.

Hello- I'm so sorry that you have to go thru this. It sucks. Period.

I don't post very often, but while reading this thread....a thought came to mind...maybe this is true for your W, or not, but I'm positive it's true for my WH....

Yes, the continued lying is wrong, hurtful, and disrespectful....BUT....

For my F(?)WH...I've come to the conclusion that he lies to me to protect the lies he continues to tell himself......minimizing serves the same purpose....It's all about not being ready (or maybe even able) to face himself....

Therefore....it's not about ME!! Even tho the lies definitely hurt...to remember to try not to take it too personal has helped me get enough emotional distance from the pain to take care of and work on myself.....and has been definitely helpful in achieving at least a semblance of emotional stability while taking enough time to sort it all thru....and act with foresight and consideration....not simply from incredible emotional pain.

Wether this is true for your W or not, I can't say...

I know that looking at it in this manner has helped me....maybe it can be helpful for you, too.

Hang in there!

Helen

<small>[ July 19, 2003, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: HelenWheels ]</small>

Lets look over the facts.

1.This was not a long term affair..Still very bad.
2. She was secretive and met him when she should of been home.
3. She lies to you .. for whatever reason very bad.
4. She shows little remorse and is not helping you recover.

Here is what I think. I might be wrong but I don't think so. Your wife is missing somthing in her marriage that she needed to get from a 20 yr old. She is going through a MLC and is willing to risk her marriage for an illution. She has discovered a new persona that she is holding on to and that persona is not "pro marriage". Both of you are drifting in different direction and will end up in "D" court. She believe nothing is wrong when everything seems to be. You must see a great MC to help her realize the pain she is causing her family. She needs to know in a very real sence that her world can change if she does not re-commit and re-attach to you and her family. In short you need to pull her out of it or the alternative will be "D" and that my friend is your worst nightmare.

A