alex, David and I don't talk much because he's next-to-never home... he hardly ever posts, but we have talked about this post in particular... and he is okay with my being here and questioning him. This seems to work well for us. We aren't fighting... we're dissecting. <P>David, thank you for coming back to explain, but I'm afraid I'm still a bit in the dark. I will say this though: I do not hate you, not by a long shot... Am I frustrated? yes. Are you loved? yes. But not by your standards, I'm afraid. If only you could have rested with me... done nothing... waited and rested... just throughout the Christmas season... <P>No hate here. Just complete and utter frustration.

Lone Star<BR>I agree with all that you've written. Love is a decision and you decided to Love the other person for the reason stated? But what do you do and how can you continue to Love the other person, when their defintion of Love is no longer the same as yours?<BR>My H has been gone almost 6 weeks, and I find myself questioning do I still Love him?<BR>I want to know what he's doing, how he's doing and want to share all aspects of my life. He doesn't. <BR>I've decided to try plan B to help me preserve the Love I still have left for him.<BR>I asked my son, Do you miss Dad?<BR>He said"I just look at his picture Mom, and I know he's still here." I wish I could hold on to the memory, like he does. Maybe then it wouldn't hurt so much.

For those of you still interested... David answered last night.<P>I'm afraid I'm as confused as ever, except to say that I think it still says that his love is contingent upon mine for him. <P>Thank you everyone for your input... and Tyra, the truth of the matter is clearly explained in your post: the love we have for each other is clearly different from what the other expects. Very sad.<P>~Sheryl

Hi 3Wishes--<P>I too am confused by what you write at the top of this thread as are many others.<P>You know what? You sound like a 15-year-old love-struck teenager who doesn't know how to go about getting what he wants because he doesn't know WHAT he wants.<P>3Wishes, you need to grow inside of yourself. You need to find love within yourself before you can ask what it is; or how one can find it. You have so lost yourself in words that they have become meaningless. You are using them to confuse not just your wife but yourself and if you're not careful, you will succeed at losing that which supposedly is most important to you -- LOVE!<P>Others before me have posted some wonderful thoughts and realities about what consititutes love--I suggest you think about those responses in great detail before giving up NewBeginning. I suggest you search your heart about what you are saying/thinking/doing. It sounds to me like there is some fantasy you are hoping to achieve.<P>What is that fantasy, 3Wishes? And be careful to remember that fantasies are NOT realities!!! That's a lesson some of us <BR>(me included)get tripped into believing--that the two are one...They are not. But fantasies sure are easier than dealing with reality, aren't they? You needn't work so hard to exist in a fantasy. You needn't face hard ugly truths about yourself...You see, my friend, that is what a fantasy is!<P>And it's so much easier to escape, to run, to hide into fantasy, to be victimized than to do the work required to rebuild a marriage. You're not alone, 3wishes, most people don't have the chutzpah to do this kind of work. Do you?<P>As a wife who betrayed her husband, I fell victim to that fantasy. Breaking free from it was hell--surely as difficult as quitting smoking. But, and this is a huge BUT, upon disclosure (and I know NB has dislosed), my H dealt with reality--not fantasy. His unrelenting desire and belief in US--despite my overwhelming NEED for this fantasy life to continue--won out!!!! Why? Because unlike the former me, HE knows what love is. I'm happy to say I do as well today, thanks in no small part to him...and to the work I have poured into *finding love* within myself.<P>My H sure doesn't sound like you--and what a shame that is because if there were more people in this world so unwaveringly committed to facing reality and working hard to make their realities BETTER, the divorce rate would tumble like a house of cards.<P>Why don't you take me up on my offer of soul-searching. Why don't you ground yourself. <BR>Why don't you look at the ugly painful hurts that which preceeded this mess and LEARN...in learning there is growth, in growth compassion, in compassion, love and forgiveness.<P>Talk about life becoming like a fantasy! <P>My best to you and especially NB<P>------------------<BR>Take good care, Francis<P>

WOW Francis,<P>I will be sure that my H reads this.. in fact, I will print this out... he'll be lonely in his apartment, so maybe this will give him some time to read and think on things...<P>Part of me wants to hug you for your unwavering support, and part of me wants to stand in front of my H with my arms out and protect him from these truths...<P>My gosh...<P>Love and Hugs, Sheryl<P>------------------<BR>Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans.<P>~John Lennon

No NewBeginning--it is YOU who needs protection from 3Wishes. You are the one who as been trying her damndest to make this marriage work. You took the high road. You are the one in it for the long haul while he muses on like some daft junior in high school.<P>I wish I could hug you--((((((((((NB))))))) for real because you, my friend, are kind and decent. That you are human and vulnerable to error simply puts you in the company of the rest of us--which includes all of humanity. 3Wishes needs to be reminded of that rather than run.<P>Regardless of the outcome of your marriage, NewBeginning, I know you will emerge a strong, healthy person who will undoubtedly attract other such in her life.<P>God Bless and do not protect him from himself but look rather to protect yourself in this toxic situation.<P>------------------<BR>Take good care, Francis<P><p>[This message has been edited by Francis (edited December 23, 1999).]

Francis,<BR>I LOVE the way that you think. You stated that so BEAUTIFULLY that I could cry. I would print this and let my W read if I thought for sure she would read it. She thinks that I revel in rubbing her nose in what has happened (I am the betrayed.)<P>This morning she brought up where I didn't want her to be a radiologist about 14 years ago. I didn't want her to be one because of my concern about the radiation. Yet, we never discussed it beyond that I didn't want her to do it and why. She hasn't brought it up until now.<P>Ihave been working my butt off to make our relationship work. She keeps bringing up really old stuff. I can understand some of it because she is releasing the anger associated with it but I can't undo what I have done. I still would have said what I said in essence but just stated it differently. It was after that discussion that I all but stopped disagreeing with her except on the things that I just culdn't tolerate under any circumstances like spending $1500 when we only had $500 based on the budget.<P>Thank you. You expressed so eloquently what I have been saying though not as effectively because I have been having a hard time with feeling rage. In the last few days I have been flaming my W on this forum rather than express it to her. This forum allows me to vent because she isn't ready for me to vent with her but in a respectful manner.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

I love this topic, because I now know what it means to "love being in love". Love is <BR>the indefinite desire to care, take care of, give to and do for, share with in both <BR>happiness and pain, play with, laugh with,<BR>cry with, and comfort someone other than<BR>yourself. Love is the ultimate gift. It is<BR>pure and selfless, often asking nothing in<BR>return. And yet for this it is also unknowingly vulnerable is nothing is received in return. True love has no limits, no boundries, and always wants to be<BR>forgiving. True love believes in love<BR>itself and is not afraid to be seen.<P>This is where I think us men get into trouble. Our external shells and childhood<BR>exposures often prevent us from understanding how to love women the way they want to be loved, on the terms they want to be loved. We men often don't realize until we're whacked on the head in the most threatening of all ways that love needs to be seen, felt, and shared openly. How many of you, like me, Love their spouses so very deeply and always have, but never opened up that love the way she tried to tell you she<BR>needed it. If you were like me, not only didn't you open love, but you didn't know that you could show it this way, and most horrible of all you didn't know that these expressions were really necessary to maintain love.<P>That's where I failed. I had to be whacked on the head with the major threat of my wife being Out-of-Love and opening her heart to an OP before the Love that has always been there just Leaped out onto my sleeve. It's been there ever since, yet it's now difficult for her to believe that it's really me, or will really stay. But she wants to believe, and simply needs to get over the new temptation to talk with OP in order to open her heart to the Love she's worked so hard to create in me.<P>Love should never be concealed. Let the world know now. I know now that it feels good to give Love openly and freely - really good. I Like it. It's simply a shame that it took me 7 years to understand this, and it's a worse shame that I now have to work quadruple hard to get the woman who once loved me so dearly to again open just a small bit of her heart to test the sincerity of the new me. I'll do whatever it takes.<P>I love deeper than the deepest abyss could <BR>ever know.<P>SamH