</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I read my post above and wanted to make sure it comes across right. I am a WS spouse for over 5 years - I confessed on 2 different occasions and my husband "forgave" me thinking it was over. But he has never taken any action, never researched for help, just continues to live in lala land. I pray for the day that he fights for me. I pray for the day he exposes me. I pray for the day he tells me no contact. I love him. I have always loved him. But I felt so alone at one point that I looked elsewhere - and this has been the same OM all this time! I won't fill you in on the sick details, but it is ridiculous to have gone on so long. It is not my husband's fault I had the affair, and it is not his fault it still goes on. But my husband needs to take his head out of the sand and see me. I know he loves me.

That is why I say the most loving thing you can do is demand NO CONTACT. Plan A him! Plan B him! But do something!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Jaref. Do you think it's possible that your H fears that if he fights and does all the Plan A/Plan B stuff that he might end up losing you? There ARE many married men and women who know about their spouses infidelities decide that it is better to put up with their spouses affairs than divorce and end up alone. Do you sense this in your H?

One last thought. Even if your H tomorrow became the Harley poster boy for Plan A/Plan B, it would not do any good in saving your marriage if you were unwilling to end all contact with the OM forever. It takes two to make marital recovery a reality otherwise it's just a false recovery.

I hope to hear from you.

<small>[ August 12, 2003, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Do you think it's possible that your H fears that if he fights and does all the Plan A/Plan B stuff that he might end up losing you?
My husband is someone who avoids problems when he can. He just thinks ignoring them will make them go away. He doesn't even know about Plan A/B, cuz he doesn't research. The last time I confessed I told him I would end it...and I tried, but I was still in the same environment (a hobby) that I met the guy in, so I saw him day in/day out...and of course, you know there has to be NO CONTACT for the A to end. So it didn't.

Even if your H tomorrow became the Harley poster boy for Plan A/Plan B, it would not do any good in saving your marriage if you were unwilling to end all contact with the OM forever. It takes two to make marital recovery a reality otherwise it's just a false recovery.
Yes, you are right, it does take two...but I feel if there was more pressure that it would be easier for me to end it. There was some pressure once and I thought I was gonna lose my mind. And there are times even know when there is so much pressure I am just ready to walk away from one or the other...but eventually the pressure subsides.

I do love my husband...and the other man is not the "quality" of man my husband is...but it is so alluring (of course, after 5 years it's like having another husband!)

Believe me, I am working on this. People may question why I let it go on for so long and all I can say is fog.

Thank you for your concern.

I hope to hear from you.

Jaref:

What a very sad post you have written. It comes across that you truly love your husband very much but your continue to disrespect and humiliate him and your marriage for the past 5 years having a sexual affair with the OM. Honestly I just don't get it. I can understand (not condone it) if you really dislike your husband, do not care being in the marriage and are not intimate with your husband at all. Your case is so different. Dosen't it break your heart when you have celebrated your anniversaries these past 5 years? In the past when you confessed wasn't your husband in enormous pain? How can you consistently inflict this pain on someone who loves you and made a committment to you no matter what?
I feel so bad for you and feel so bad for your husband. It is really heartbreaking.
I would like to make a suggestion. Please give the messages that you have written here and give them to your husband. Sit down and ask him how he really feels. Ask him does he want to be married?
Does he want to fight for you and this marriage?
Maybe this will wake him up. My final thought is please imagine your husband doing to you what you have been doing to your husband? You are better than this. Please respect yourself, your marriage and the husband you love. Nobody deserves to have done what you are doing to him and ultimately to you. You really can't respect other people until you respect yourself. I wish you the best and hope you continue to love your husband. Show him your messages and stop the drama and the pain once and for all. Good luck.

I admire your willingness to post your personal weakness for all MB'ers to read and learn from your mistakes. Thank you for all your previous posts.

I bet you aren't really a terrible person. In fact, I'll bet you are a really nice woman. But, you are weak. Your H is also weak. You are wishing your H could/would be strong for you .... because you are not strong.

You cannot borrow any one else's strength. Even if your H did put his foot down, you'd remain weak.

If you can imagine replacing your affair with a different addiction, such as smoking .... and your H insisted you stop smoking .... you'd still be the one who had to quit and tolerate the withdrawl from your addiction.

You're so weak you point out your H's weakness to make your weakness look better! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> It doesn't work! (Nice try though)

I have 3 very important questions:

1. Who else (besides OM)knows about this affair?

2. Is OM married with or without children?

3. If you died tomorrow, what would you say to your God if asked, "Jaref, what has been your Earthly legacy?" ?

God bless and keep you.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

BRYANP,
Yes, it breaks my heart about our anniversaries. And Christmas. And vacations. The life I live is not full - it is restrictive and full of lies. I do not know why I continue when everything in me knows that the full life I dream of having is with my husband and all I have to do is grab hold of it.
ANd yes, he was in enormous pain when I confessed.

I have been thinking about giving him the book "surviving an affair" or "his needs, her needs". I know he would be open to working on our relationship...but why should I put him through pain again if I have not ended the affair. I keep thinking I will end it on my own and then go to him and do what the book says. I don't know. I get so confused and I am so scared.

Yes, I think of what I am doing to him and I would just lose it if he was doing it to me. I think that is what I don't understand. If I had the slightest suspicion of ANYTHING, I would confront him on it...I'm just that way. SO I can't understand it when he does NOTHING. But that is how he does everything. Protection, I think.

PEPPERBAND
My weaknesses are embarassing, but I do not wish this on anyone. It's a trap, but you don't see it that way when it starts. At first, everything is easy and blends together nicely (sick, huh?). But then demands are placed on you by the other person and you start lying more and more. Lying is a daily (no, it's a minute) thing for me. I lie to my husband, I lie to OM, I lie to my family, I lie to co-workers. I mix up parts of the one life with the other life. It's even hard to tell which life is the secret life anymore.

Yes, you are right - I wish he would be strong and help me (on his own). But I fear the only way to get his help is to tell him about the A again and at the same time show him Surviving an Affair and tell him he needs to read this and apply the things in the book if we are ever gonna have a fighting chance.

Yea, it seems the only place my husband isn't weak is that he hasn't had an A.

Questions answered:
1. I have one sister and OMs family and friends that know of the A.
2. OM is single without children
3. Lies

I have known my H since I was 10 years old and he was 12. We started dating when I was 16. Lived together first for 2 years. Married for 15 years. He is the sweetest man, never in a bad mood. Easy to live with. Slow to anger. He IS God's gift to me.

Do you know why I like MarriageBuilders? It's because it is about SAVING marriages. I saw a counselor once who wanted me to divorce him. her heart was good, she thought it was the right thing to say. But she was wrong. I knew it then and it is still true today.

Thank you all for everything. I know that being on here will help me do the right thing. You are who you associate with, and you all are a fine group of people.

You need to confront your husband. If you want the marriage to work. He needs to know that you need him to fight for you. To give you a reason to stop or you know he just doesn't care.

Some men need hit in the head with a 2x4.

Jaref you may be interested in counseling with Penny Tupy (our resident MB coach, username: cerri, and founder of Save Your Marriage Central ). She was in your shoes way back and I beleive you may be able to relate and benefit tremendously to her own personal struggle with her knowledge and personal experiences.

I would just like to leave you with one last thought and it is to keep in mind that withdrawl from the OM, although extremely hard, is one day at a time process. You may want to consider having your doctor prescribe you anti-depressants if you find yourself losing it because of no contact. Come here to vent and to get support from us because we do care about you and your H, and wish that your marriage becomes better than it was before you started your A.

I hope to hear from you soon.

Thanks for the info. I did try counseling with Dr. Harley's daughter (I think that was who it was)...however, she said she could not help until I ended the A. Apparently they work only on building the relationship and are not really into counseling before that .

Thanks for caring.

~Jaref~

Thank you for your response. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

We all do what we do because it serves a purpose for us. Even the choices we make that seem to "hurt" us, serve a purpose.

The hidden benefit you receive by continuing your self-destructive behavior .... the part that you can not figure out yet ... this is where your deliverance begins.

You say you are a Christian woman. Well, start where you find your strengths. Confess to your pastor. Seek counsel spiritually. You said only one sister and OMs friends know of your sin.

God knows. Confess to a flesh and blood human representative of your church.

Start using your spiritual strength. Get in touch with a pastor. A woman if available.

To delay confession is a choice that benefits you in what way ????

Best to you

Pep

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ August 12, 2003, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

interesting suggestion that pepper just made. approaching your problem useing the concept of a kind of spirituale AA. and the AA model is a very effcient way to handle addicitons, which is what you make your problem sound like.

the thing is that recognizing a problem is not the same as solving it. in your case all it means is that you're not a hypocite...admirable i'm sure but sadley what you still are, is a wife who cheats on her husband...and there's just no getting around that is there?

the real sad thing is that we all know addicts that keep on doing what they do until they die...and you make it sound like that's what's happening to you...that everyday you hate yourself a little more and the best parts of you die a little bit more...and you see it continuing that way until one day you wake up and there will be nothing left of yourself that you love. am i being dramtatic? i guess but it's how you make me feel...just so very sorry...

coach

What's happening?

Coach,
Yes, sometimes I feel resigned to the fact that this is who I am and who I will be til the day I die. You're right - that's an addict talking. Funny...I have NEVER even experimented with drugs or alcohol, so because I didn't want to get addicted (I figured I would enjoy it and would get addicted) WHo'd'a thought it would be something else?

Just some random thoughts:

Jaref- close your eyes and imagine your husband telling you that he feels you do not love him anymore and will now divorce you. This may not be as imaginery as you think. You are playing with fire.

Your have confessed to your husband twice before and you have told us how much hurt and pain he was in and yet you continue. Does this sound like you love your husband? Now you refuse to even be honest with him. You seem to put the blame on your husband because he is not confrontational with you. Maybe he loves you so much that he figures that he really love you that much and he does not want to lose you. I am upset with you because you have so much going for you with your husband that so many here only wish they had and you continuously devalue your husband and your marriage throught this self-destructive behavior of yours. You are hurting everyone who loves you.

You seems like such a sensitive and caring woman.
Your husband will not be with you forever. How do you wish to be remembered by those who loved you.
You are the captain of your ship. It is your choice and your decision on how you wish to live your life and live your marriage? This is not how you treat people who love you. Please respect yourself, respect your husband and respect your marriage. In the end what do you really have?
I wish you luck.

BryanP,
Everything you say is true.

I want to tell you that after this living this life of duplicity so long and having no friends (you can't when you lie all the time), that it is good to talk to all of you on the board. I listen to this Christian radio show all the time and they are always saying that God does not expect us to heal ourselves, but to heal with other Believers - to confess ourselves to them and help one another. Well, I have isolated myself that I had no one. Though the words many of you say are painful and I wince everytime I read them, you are all being true friends by telling me the truth!

...and to be honest, I cry several times a day from reading these posts and reading the pain of these other people. It helps me to think about my own pain and my husband's pain. Sometimes I just try not to think about what I am doing so that it is easier to live with. Reading MB MAKES me think about it and makes it more real and let's me FEEL the pain. That's a good thing.

Jaref:

I really wish you well. Please consider leaning on your husband to work through this. Even if it is painful tell him how much you need him to work with you all of the time to work on this marriage and to stop this madness. You need to work on this with your husband as a team. Tell him everytime the OM contacts you. Give your husband the phone number of the OM and have him call him.
The one true friend and love you have is your husband who committed his life and love to you.
Work as a team together and you will succeed. The power of true love is unstopable. Let your husband into your world and let him fight for you and your marriage and tell him what you really need. Be honest and open with him and tell him you need him now more than ever. I wish you so much luck.

Jaref it's good to know that you realize that we ARE your friends and as your friends, we want the best for you, your H, and your marriage. And because we are your friends will give you a few good virtual 2x4 whacks over your head every so often but it's only because we want to help you blow away the fog that has gripped your life for so long. Please consider that if the OM truly loved and cared for you he would have ended this relationship a long time ago, but he is an vulture who preys on the emotional vulnerability of married women (you may not be his only woman) and would probably not grieve your passing. I beleive you have it in you to end your A, and even though withdrawl is going to be painful, you have us here to offer you support and advice.

Be good to yourself.

Jaref=hypocrite

On MB admitting to continuing an affair and then trying to give advise to others on how to save their marriage.

Sorry again.....I call it as I see it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Jaref,

First,it sounds as though you are experiencing some real confusion. However, I find it odd that while you know that you are causing your H a lot of pain,you cannot acknowledge the real lack of communication in your marriage.
I have been separated from my wife for nearly a year now. While I attempted Plan A,with some effect, her drinking issues got in the way of any hope of a successful attempt to POJA and reconcile.
I did all with in my power to retrieve our marriage including actually getting her into re-hab.
I recently started a Plan B about 7 weeks ago. I have been faithful to that Plan, despite her attempts to talk to me. Because of her alcoholism, she has not contacted her children(two boys- 7& 14)or attempted to see them.
She recently left messages for me to call her about seeing them. I have arranged with her sister to set that up, but she seems to believe or forgets what the protocol is for visitation.
I have since filed for divorce. It is time (for me) to let go.
My point is this.While you may feel your husband is not interested it is apparant to me that there is a real lack of honest communication between you and your H. You seem to want to condone your affair based on his lack of interest or action.You will not change him. You can only change you.Hopefully, he will recognize those changes and be ready to work on your marriage.
What I suggest is that you stop your affair and quit rationalizing what you are doing. You will have to earn his trust back, and, if you stop he may gain some interest in saving the marriage.
I am surprised he has tolerated this after five years. I know I wouldn't, and havn't. While my attempts to save my marriage were not fruitful, it did bring me to some realizations about me. You may want to look at it from the "you " perspective.

I wish you the best and hope that you will ultimately make a good decision.

Startinover, you said:
Jaref=hypocrite

You are being rude. I am not trying to give advice on saving marriages - I am trying to give the perspective of the WS. And although in all situations no one MAKES the WS cheat, there are things that the BS can do to save their marriage. That is all I am trying to say to people. However, if people would like me NOT to post to others any longer, then I will not. I came here for help and wanted to be a contributer as well as learn...I thought that giving theother perspective would be helpful.

StartingOver = edited out insult

How does that feel SO?

You may be trying to help her .... or you may be angry about your own situation .... but I also think this was mean.

I call it like I see it as well.

Take care SO .... I do NOT think you "are" those names I called you .... and I plan to return and edit them out ... but just so you know how this feels.

Pep

<small>[ August 14, 2003, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>