Hi DD,

It's good to hear from you. I really think about you a lot. I'm glad you all had a good time in Disney Land.

You say you are going to let it run it's course and see where it leads you. I really hope for the best for you. Having a man w/ that kind of mentality at this time could be very scary for me. I don't think I could handle it as well a you. I just wonder if you will get to the point of accepting what your H is doing, because it's a part of oriental society in some places. Your husband is just so up front about it w/ you, telling you that he told her he wasn't going to call her until he gets there. What does that tell you? He's most likely going to go back to China and do the same thing. He really wants you to accept what he's doing and stay w/ him?

Yes I know some about the oriental, and eastern culture, as I was with a man 5 yrs ago from India who hurt me very bad. He was very cunning!!! But I caught onto his ways, sad to say after much hurt.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Hi Ladysheep:

I think you understand my point of view and my husband’s intention very clearly. He is very honest with me about this and he never let me believe that he won’t see her again. He will keep seeing her when he returns tomorrow. But he thinks everything will be different because so many things happened during these past few months.

He got an email yesterday from the girl. I happened to be there when he opened it. Actually, he was just deleting out that email when I went into the computer room. I opened it out from the deleted item folder. The email said that she is very lonely and feels very sad and she wishes she could have someone to talk to. In other words, she wants my husband to call her. I told my husband that it’s only two more days and he will be there. And I will tear the airlines ticket off if I find out he calls her.

We talked about this last night again. He said the poor little girl must be really sad because he did not call. And I told him “If you can not stand that the girl is in such miserable condition and you feel so sorry for her sadness, then you call her. And if you don’t want me to go through this terrible pain knowing you call her again just because she missed you, then don’t call her. It is your choice.” He said he won’t, but I am not so sure.

We talked about his life in China more last night. He asked me to give him some room while he is there. And I told him if he is willing to give me dome room in the same condition, then I will allow it. He did not say anything more after that. He said right now our marriage life is actually better because I have become more aggressive than before. I normally withhold my feelings. And he actually likes me to be angry to him or show my jealousy from time to time. Men are so strange. I guess they like to be abused too.

Hi DD,

How are you doing today?

Do you think your H will not see any OW in China?
It sounds like he has been seeking more than business opportunities there, doesn't it?

How old are your children?

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Do you think your H will not see any OW in China?
No, of course not. He would definably see other women in China. There is nothing I could do about it. I have decided to let him do whatever he wants. I am going to following the 180-degree change plan I saw on the message board. However, he is counting on me to help him on his business while he is there. So he will be really frustrated with my NC plan. I will still help him, but I am not going to have any contact with him. Can’t wait for the new venture…he is leaving tonight…

How old are your children?
I have four children. Daughter 11, Son 9 (will be 10 in November), and identical twin girls will be three in three weeks. My husband loves them very much.

I am doing well. The girl and me have become friends. I called her once about three weeks ago when I just found out. I told her to take good care of herself since she is the victim here also. She is so young and has no social experience. It is very unfortunate that she met my husband and got burn badly. I told her to be strong and we will get through this together. She said she was expected me to call her and be very angry with her. But I did not. And I comforted her instead. She really appreciated. I left my number and address with her, so she could contact me if she ever need anything or help with anything.

She called three times yesterday. But my husband held on to his end of promise and did not talk to her or return her call. So I called her this morning. She told me that she moved to another city now. I asked her why she called three times yesterday. Is there something wrong? She said that’s ok because the reason no longer exists. I suspect the reason she called was because she could not decide if she should move or wait for my husband. And since my husband did not return the phone calls. That help her to make up her mind of moving so I think she moved last night. I have to give her credit for that. She will email me with her new number and address so we could keep in touch with each other. She is so young. I feel like she is like another daughter or something and I will try my best to help her.

Hi DD,

Do you really believe that girl moved? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> And why are you sympathizing w/ the woman who slept, and had sex w/ your H. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Yes she says she didn't know he was married, and he kindof betrayed her too. But why would she continue to call and write then? Something is very fishy about your Husband and the whole thing. And do you think he is going to tell you the truth about anything he's doing in China if you now have NC with him. When he comes back what are your plans w/ him? Are you afraid to know? Are you trying to cause yourself as less pain as possible? Is it what you don't know, won't hurt you, so you don't want to know. If I were you. I would have gone, just because he feels he wants to have safe sex in China, and you should give him room to do that? That's absurd, and shows the big fog he's in at the present time. Have you ever given him the option of not returning to China, or seperation/divorce. I don't know, if I was in the situation you are, my mind would go crazy knowing he's there and possibly having sex w/ OW.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Hi Ladysheep:

Thank you for your concern about me. He left last night. He said now he has to go back to take care of the problem he created. His friends will be there sometime next week. And my father-in-law will visit there too in about three weeks. All his friends are very upset about him and told him that if he did not take care of this mess and break up with the girl when he arrive, he will be totally abandoned by them all and will be left alone on his own.

During our car ride to the airport, he told me that he has never thought that this whole thing would brew out of proportion like this. He just does it for the fun of it and it is me that make the things the way it is now. He said he was just having little fun with the girl, and that’s all. But now I am trying to force them actually being together like a couple. I told him don’t put the blame on me because I am not the guilty one here. I did nothing wrong. Then he said he loves our family very much and just said he will be really careful next time.

My last word to him is “Just remember my four conditions”. And he said ok. I don’t know if you still remember the four conditions I have for him. He told me he would have problem with condition no. 3, but he will try his best. And I told him that is not good enough. If he thinks he could not do it, then don’t come home. However, because we have business activity that I need to take care on my side, it will be impossible to have real no contact. So my plan is to cut down all personal contact like email, chatting on the net using Net meeting or Instant Massager, and no phone call to him at all. But I will still continue sending him business documents and packages. In order words, I won’t talk to him or let the kids talk to him at all. I want him to sit there and constantly wondering about us. I want to show him that if I could do it, so does he. And if with so many months of this, and he does not miss us at all, it shows me how unimportant our family actually placed in his life. Then I will decide what to do after that.

You asked me ever given him the option of not returning to China, or separation/divorce. Actually, the first one has never occurred in my mind. If living freely in China is what he wants, I will give it to him. I told him to go back as early as August 11 when I just found out, but he wouldn’t. He said he wanted to stay until the September after the kids goes back to school. He wanted to spend time with the kids and me and enjoy his family life. And he said forget about divorce, it will never happen because he will never sign it.

He was in college when his mom has a stroke at age 40. He has to quit his education and come back home to take care of the family business because he is the eldest son. He constantly complains to me about his lack of choice and could not do whatever he wants. So I decided beginning of last year to close down all family business and move in with my in-laws so he could go to China freely to peruse his dream. I am willing to support our family for the time being and offer him this opportunity. I don’t want he looking back at age 60 and put the blame on me. Now, if he did not make it this time, he would have nobody else to blame but himself. I just wish he could grow up faster and become a successful businessman and a responsible husband soon.

Hi DD,

Did that conversation during taking him to the airport leave you feeling sad? What concerns me is he says... He just does it for the fun of it and it is me that make the things the way it is now. He said he was just having a little fun w/ the girl, and thats all. But now I am trying to force them actually being together like a couple.
A little fun w/ the girl? Then blaming you?
What a fog he's in still? He thinks he has a pretty smooth tongue doesn't he? And he's manipulative. Be so careful!!

If living freely in China is what he wants I will give it to him......He wanted to spend time w/ the kids & me & enjoy his family life......So I decided beginning of last year to close down all family business and move in w/ my in'laws as he could go to China to persue his dreams.
The problem here is that you gave him the room to persue his dream, which is a great sacrifice
to give him, and he took it and abused it, and
you and family. If he wants to live a double life now (which I hope he doesn't)he is not going to have everyones best reguards and wishes while he does it.

I really feel for you DD, and I hope he stops causing you and family pain. Does children know of his infidelity? I know this is not what you intended when you said "yes, honey go to China and persue your dream."

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Dear Ladysheep:

Writing and reading your reply has been my biggest support these days. I cry every time when I read your post. Thank you so much for what you have done for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Right now is midnight over there in China and is his first night back there. And he has not called home yet. He usually will call home and let us know that he arrive safely. I tried to keep my mind off of what he is doing now. Maybe you are right. The girl has never left. I try not to let it bother me…but it is so difficult! My kids don’t know anything. I don’t want them to find out either. It will have a huge impact on my 11 and 10 years old.

One more thing he mentioned on the way to the airport that gave me a smile was that he said he was kind of curious what I was doing on the internet. I Always immediately closed down the webpage every time he walked in our room for the past few days before he left. Sometimes was because I was in the middle of writing message to you. Other times were because I didn’t want him to find out what I was doing on Marriage Builders.

I came across a post yesterday by Carol talking about her story and 180 plan by Michele Weiner-Davis. It sounds very interesting. Do you know anything about it? I think I am going to buy the book and read more about it. It looks very similar to what I am trying to do now. What do you think?

DD,

My heart goes out to you. I cannot imagine going through this sort of pain. I realize you both have ties to the oriental culture where infidelity is viewed differently than western culture, but to me it seems human instinct to want a partner that desires you and you alone both physically and emotionally.

And oceans apart, worlds away, different languages, religions and skin colour cannot deny the fact that we are all human beings with the same feelings. Perhaps my upbringing in the western culture fogs this line of thought.

I have a question - although it is considered normal and accepted for husbands to have both their wives and their mistresses in certain cultures...do the wives of these husbands not feel any sense of hurt, betrayal, disappointment etc?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He said now he has to go back to take care of the problem he created. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't really understand what he thinks he needs to do to take care of the problem. One last roll in the hay...insist she stops calling?! From what I understand he doesn't really acknowlege that there is a problem. He thinks what he's doing is ok. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Hi DD,

How are you feeling today?

I have read about the 180 one time. I'm not really sure about it, but in your situation it
may work, I really don't know.

I will start a new post for you, and hopefully you will recieve some replies to help with that.

Look for new post titled....
FOR DD---NEEDING HELP--PLAN A/B OR 180???

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Hi Ladysheep:

Could I forward a private email to you?

Goodmorning DD,

Yes you can e-mail me at:

Ladyshp@twcny.rr.com

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Dear Ladysheep:

Thank you for creating another link for me. I am looking forward to it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> The message I forward to you is the email I sent to my husband last night.

I finally could not stand it and called him on early Friday morning. He was in a business meeting and could not really talk to me at that time. He did write an email to me that day about what he has been doing for the past two days, and also explained to me that he had not bought the International Calling Card yet. That’s the reason he did not call home. And in the email he also told me he had called up the girl but she is out of town for a while.

Then he called me Saturday morning. We had a good conversation at the first part, until I asked him about the girl. He told me that the girl’s roommate told him that she went home to visit her parents and will be back in a week. She called my husband afterward but because my husband was in business meeting all day. So she left him a short message saying that I have called her. Well… she was the one told me not to tell my husband that she left town, and she was the one told me not to tell him about our phone conversation. But she told him! What kind of game is she trying to play? Does she need my husband’s comfort, support, opinion, or something because I called her? What did she want from my husband? I called her because I was concerned about her, and because I could tell my husband was really worried bout her also because there was the huge hurricane went to the city they live on the day that she called three times. Is she trying to take advantage of my kindness also?

Well, as you could guess the conversation took a wrong turn. And during the last part of our conversation, my husband start to be impatient saying that he did not wish to talk about this anymore. So I just hang up the phone. Then I wrote him the email last night.

I am feeling much better now. Kids have started their school. My life become very busy and it is good for me. I am going to stick to my no contact except for business purposes plan. Hope in week’s time he will realize that I am taking this thing very serious this time around.

Hi DD,

How are you doing today? I'm thinking of you. I wish there were more responses to the other thread. But I think going into the Plan B, no contact, mixed w/ some 180 would be the proper plan in your situation.

And in the e-mail he also told me he had called up the girl but she is out of town for a while Are you sure about that??? And why is he trying to call her up. If I was you I would write a final Plan B letter telling him you expect him to have "NO CONTACT" with her whatsoever, and if she contacts him, he is to tell her that she needs to stay away from him, meaning "no calls, and no contact to him at all." If he wants his marriage to last and be worked on. Then these must be the conditions!!!

Well she is the one told me not to tell my husband that she left town, as she was the one told me not to tell him about our phone conversation. But she told him. What kind of game is she trying to play?....Is she trying to take advantage of my kindness also?
If I was you, I would write her a last letter stating she is to have "NO CONTACT" with your husband, period!!!!! Then ask her how she would feel if she was married, and her husband did that to her. I hope one day she feels the pain.
Now that she knows he is married, she should have "NO CONTACT" with him.

I am going to stick to my no contact except for business purposes plan.
I think that "no contact" is good, but why are you continuing to do it for business? No contact means you will help him with nothing. He
says you need to do what you need for yourself now, so basically he can find someone else to do his business from there. So I would suggest you find a way to get back into business for yourself elsewhere that does not involve your husband, and try to make it for the children and yourself. He will definitely know after that that you are serious!!!

Here is a link I found on Hypatia's thread today.
I though it may help you also. You have done much that is read about there, but there is more that I think will help you. The only thing I don't agree w/ on there is "rule #4". I don't believe you helped create an environment for your husband to commit adultery. He did that all on his own, not you!!!

WAT'S BS Survival Guide

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Good Morning Ladysheep:

I am doing fine because I know what I should do now. Your suggestions are exactly what I have in mind. The only way to change his mind set is to change myself.

I would write a final Plan B letter telling him you expect him to have "NO CONTACT" with her whatsoever, and if she contacts him, he is to tell her that she needs to stay away from him, meaning "no calls, and no contact to him at all."
Now that she knows he is married, she should have "NO CONTACT" with him.

Do you still remember the conditions I told him? I know my husband will still continue have sex with other woman while he is there. If it is not with this girl, then it will be with some other girls. I am just being realist here because there is no sense for me to lie to myself if I know it will never happened. As matter of fact he told me he had slept with three different women while he was there last time. There will be no point for the NC letter. I won’t tell the girl either, because it has no meaning to me. NC needs to come from my husband. I have learned to accept one night stand, but I could not accept a relationship. And this is what happened with the girl this time, and that’s what he means by saying he had over done it.

One night stand usually does not bother me. I guess this is because of my oriental background. I understand men do have their needs while they stay away from home for so long and I always just laugh it off. But continue contact with anybody there while he is home make me hurt like hell. That’s why I ask him this time he will have no contact with China when he returns home. And I mean absolutely no contact at all. He said he will try, but it will be very difficult. I said it I don’t care because I do not want to go through what I went through for the past two months. And besides, the girls over there have to bear the pain with no contact with him for two or three months at the time when he is home. Any relationship normally will change after that.

I think that "no contact" is good, but why are you continuing to do it for business? No contact means you will help him with nothing. He says you need to do what you need for yourself now, so basically he can find someone else to do his business from there.

Unfortunely, this won’t happen because our financial situation. If I don’t continue to help on his business, our family will suffer. Unlike the regular Chinese family that husband control everything, my husband trust me 100% and I handle ALL of our finances and I control everything. My husband does not even know which bank we use or what is our checking account number. And just like my mother told me that he is just like a kite I flew in the sky. It is me that is holding the string and decide when to pull it back. But I need to watch and avoid occasionally lightning and thunder that might cut off the string and send the kite loose.

I am sorry but I did delete some personal detail information in his email when I forward the message to you. There is a list of what I need to do on the business side. When he said “you need to do what you need for yourself now”, what he meant was to tell me to take care of the things on the list instead of putting my mind in his adultery. And I think you also got his point of telling me just move on and forget about this whole thing.

I am willing to forgive and forget, but I need to take this opportunity to change myself and put insecurity into his mind. Because I think that is the only way he will change his attitude about the whole thing. I probably should create an imaginative boyfriend or something to set his alarm off. Maybe I could use you to be my EA! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> The idea of me writing email to somebody he does not know already make him feel kind of uneasy! That’s why I think 180 could play a big roll in my plan. I have lots of idea what I could do already. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> What do you think?

Dear DD,
IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), if I were you I would cut the kite string. I wouldn't want anything to do with that kite.

But it's your choice if you want to accept him having one night stands. You will emotionally have just as much hurt w/ him having one night stands as with him having relationships, you cannot kid yourself. It already has effected his feelings for you, in that he is distant and unfeeling toward your feelings. It has already
done it's damage, and will continue to as long as he does it, and as long as you accept it.
You will become a very depressed woman in the long run.

What you are telling me, is that you are willing to accept his one night stands, because he is away from you in China and he has needs, you just want any relationships to stop. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> So you are trying the 180 to stop his relationships <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Hi Ladysheep:

No. That’s not what I mean. I am saying that it is acceptable in the oriental culture that to allow man to have one night stand and I can’t fight with this 5000 years old culture. What I am saying is by changing myself that it might change his way of thinking of this one night stand is probably is not a good idea either. I want him have the feeling of he might loose me because I am changing. In other words, instead of telling him I do not allow this one night stand, I will just show him that if you keep it up like this, you will loose me. Do you understand what I am trying to say here?

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: doubledelite ]</small>

**WOMEN WHO CUT KITES WILL LOSE LOUSY MARRIAGE**
By: Confucious <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Just kidding <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I understand what you mean now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I would feel kind of nervous playing an imaginary EA partner. I don't know if I could do it??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I have to think about that one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Hi Ladysheep:

I said that as a joke. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Don’t take it seriously. It is just one of my crazy idea anyway.

I just wrote him another email this afternoon, strictly business. No Dear, no closing, and not even a word of the kids and me. I have put a block on his email address on my MSN Massager. And, I start to enjoy my life now….

YaHoooo DD!!!!!, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Let that kite fly into the tree and get stuck w/ no one to get it out but himself!!! His time to face consequences!!! And your time to LIVE!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sent with Love, Ladysheep