Don't worry too much about the love. My H told me he loved me but wasn't in love with me. Those feeling can return. Trust me, I can't write about our weekend because it is x rated, but seriously, that was what he said to me 2 years ago. Now, he can't believe what he did. He loves me like crazy again.

I gave up asking about the OW for lent 2 years ago, best thing I could have done. I put her in the past, she was insignificant. She was a symptom that our marriage needed attention. Please give yourself a break, residency and kids, been there and done that-tough!!!

Enter OW (wow, she is a piece of work-now that's the kind of girl I want my kid to bring home-I think I'm gonna puke!) She is playing the damsel in destress. He is in the chemical stage of infatuation. You might want to show him a picture of yourselves when you were in that stage and remind him that he felt that way about you and what makes him think that it would be any different in the long run with her? Leave the picture out too. He's smart, he'll figure it out.

I've been at this a while. He'll stick with you, he's still there so he's going nowhere. Keep up the plan A. You are doing great.

Remember, even in the worst cases, close to divorce and post divorce many relationships work out. On the other hand, less than 3% or relationships founded in an affair work out because they are based on fantasy. Well the genie is out of the bottle so to speak. You both are Catholic. If you follow the plan by Dr Harley, your marriage can be better than before. Don't worry about his parents, the truth has a funny way of coming out. I think it's great that he doesn't want to tell them-he's embarassed of the OW!!!!!! Too good. You are doing great. Be patient. Jersey Girl <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Goodmorning-hope you have a good day. We are here if youy need us-JG

Jersey Girl Help!! H wants to move out. I went through his wallet last night and he now has two pics of OW's daughter. None of our kids. I told him last night I didn't feel like he was 100% committed to trying to reconcile. He replied I'm going to MC. I told him he has never reassured me he has no contact with OW. He didn't reply so I told him he must still be at least seeing her at the hospital and talking on the phone. No response.

Do I tell him I went through his wallet? I'm sick of vomiting all night. I've lost so much weight, my skirt fell off this morning. Also, I still think A started long before he admits. Is this typical? I'm trying not to be a LBs. I did tell him he was selfish, because he keeps saying he wants to move out to "clear his head" and that by him being near me clouds the issue. He said he's still sexually attracted to me, blah, blah and finds it hard to resist me (which is obvious by is aroused state). I'm sorry but there's a lot of attractive guys out there in the world, but I don't get aroused by just looking at them.

I did tell him he was not the only one who was miserable at times (especially when he dumped all the financial stuff on me) and that I felt unappreciated and used. He never responds. Please tell MC will help us talk. I'm afraid now he's not going to go.

I should never had said anything last night, but I start getting chest pains and if I don't talk I'm afraid I'm going to stroke out or something. The Ben & Jerry's didn't even make me feel better.

Thanks for listening everybody!

pdfbs

If he wants to move out despite the fact that you're distracting him, I'd say do a 180 and help him move. Physically, the stress you are under is NOT good for your body, your mind or your kids. Are you going to let him to do this to you? Let him move out to think for himself. Then take the time to breathe, DETACH and focus on your kids. They are obviously not your H's priority at this time. Make them yours. They need you. You're not doing them any favours by killing yourself over this. He's not worth your life or the lives of your children.

I know it's hard, I'm trying to do the same thing with mine. I've lost that last ten pounds--back to my pre-pregnancy weight and dress size. I'm also trying to overcome depression and high blood pressure without using medication. I'm doing this by detaching myself from my H--and he's noticing. Everytime I pull away, he comes closer.

Concentrate on being the best YOU you can be. Your H fell in love with you for a reason. Try to remember who that person was/is and flaunt it.

6 months ago I begged my H to stay and work with me while he was bent on leaving. He won't leave even when he's driving us all crazy--staying for the sake of the (4) kids you know. Now he's saying he's just as committed to me as ever without saying those incredibly important little words except in his sleep.

Maybe him opening his eyes one morning and realizing that you aren't around any more may wake him up.

One of my philosophies in life is: Remember to breathe. If you don't, nothing else matters.

Let me know how it goes.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{pdfbs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Thanks for the info. I actually thought about going away for the weekend with the 5 mos and leaving the other 4 kids with H. He's so selfish saying he needs to think and clear his mind. So do I and I really need a solid night's sleep without any distractions.

Is it important to know when the A started exactly? I think H keeps telling me different times.

And what did you tell your kids ours are from 8 1/2 to 5 mos.?

Oh, this makes me sick to my stomach too.

OK. First, see the lawyer. Find out what happens when he gets salary increase, child support, etc. It will make you feel better and more secure.

Second, don't tell him you snooped if you can help it. The man has been kidnapped by aliens. You also want to be able to keep snooping. They frequently keep seeing each other for a while-don't worry.

H's friend told my H I would be remarried in 2 years which made him crazy.

Third, mine also told me that it was going on for less time. Don't worry about that now. The emotional affair has been going on longer, I'm pretty sure about that, although some men go crazy over a very short affair-darn chemicals

OK, what else-if he wants to move out and won't let you plan A, then let him move out

QUESTION GANG? Plan A or B here?

I'd opt for plan B-let him know what he is loosing and let him know that you are seeing the attorney for info. Let him know that the door is open, but that you need to protect your love for him, and if he wants to move out, so be it, but that you cannot ride the rollarcoaster.

Do not leave home, it is called abandonment of the marriage bed-maybe a legal eagle can explain it, but don't be the one to leave, let him

So what if he goes to the OW, great, she can see what he is really like, and he can see what she is all about. He will miss his family life.

He is being typical. Mine was ready to go, I didn't leave, saw a lawyer instead. Start working on you. Drives them crazy to see you survive.

See YOUR OWN doctor and get something for sleep and depression-you are going to need that-darn, are you breast feeding? You may have to tough it out a little, but there are still some antidep you can take.

We are here for you, seriously, that could have been me 2 years ago-had her photo and all. He's loosing it, it is not you!! HUGS-Jersey Girl

HELP BUMP HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd opt for plan B-let him know what he is loosing and let him know that you are seeing the attorney for info. Let him know that the door is open, but that you need to protect your love for him, and if he wants to move out, so be it, but that you cannot ride the rollarcoaster.

If he's that determined to go, then Plan B. You have a 5m/o to take care of who will pick up on how you are feeling. They don't need that kind of stress and neither do you. 5 kids, eh? You're 1 up on me. I'm impressed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

If he decided to stay, Plan A like crazy.

In the meantime, get a PBL ready. The choice is his. Either way you'll be prepared.

I wasn't leaving leaving, just going to a girlfriend's for the weekend to try and sleep. Already on Zoloft, wonderful drug. You guys are making me strong. Thank you Thank you. I hung up on my sis-in-law earlier, b/c she just kept saying he's not coming back, he won't go to MC, etc etc. She's not the right person for me to chat with right now. No more snooping, because it makes me ill.

On Plan B how do I work it with so many kids with their activities and two little ones that can't really communicate their needs so to speak. He's so irresponsible I'm worried that someone wouldn't get picked up etc. Also, if PlanB implemented do I let him have use of the house to see the kids? I'm just not sure how to work this out.

Thanks. Only 3.5 hours till MC. What can I expect? Any pointers, other than no LBs.

What does PBL stand for?

I believe it is a plan b letter. There were some good ones written, maybe someone will post one for you to see.

Some people use e-mail and family or friends to communicate. That is part of it. If he forgets to pick up kids, document it. You will then get full custody if it goes that far. Keep a record when he exposes them to OW or forgets them. You can talk to the daycare etc., for back up. He needs to know what you do. His fantasy needs to collapse, and it will-trust me.

bump-anyone have a good paln b letter?

I mean plan b bump

Here's Cerri's PBL Guidelines:

PBL Guidelines:

&#8226; I love you.
&#8226; I married you for life. I want to stay married to you
&#8226; I am willing to do what it takes to be the spouse you've always wanted and to address the things I did wrong in the marriage.
&#8226; The affair/neglect/abuse is so painful for me that it will destroy the love I have for you. In order to protect those feelings I must end all contact with you.
&#8226; As soon as the affair/neglect/abuse is over I would love to talk with you about our future.
&#8226; Until that time please respect my wish for no contact whatsoever
&#8226; In an emergency you can reach me through______.
&#8226; Arrangements for seeing children and handling finances are_____.

If you post on her thread, I'm sure she'll help you with this.

Hope this helps.

MC lasted 2 hrs last night. Brief rundown he feels that I have resented him b/c I didn't go to law school and to follow him around the country for his work. He kept saying he's a failure and he ruined my life. Everything negative.

To be brief I did resent him for because his career always came first and his needs always came first and he never thanked me for those sacrifices. I failed in that I didn't meet his EN for letting him know how much I loved him. Believe me, sex has never been a problem and neither have verbal expressions from me. Even during MC he shut down and sat there and the counselor even said he does it to her in their private sessions.

We went over how each of us fails to communicate our EN.

This morning he still said he wants to leave and that he's not clinically depressed. I think he is. And I still think he feels inadequate b/c I run the house/kids/schedules/etc w/o him, but that is due to fact he refuses flat out to do any of that stuff and tells me to deal with it or ignores it until I have to do it. Example, grass so high neighbor cut it b/c you couldn't see the kids if they fell (this was during time he was suspended from his job and spent the days swimming with our kids and OW and her kid while I worked all day.) Sorry, but I find that unacceptable and unfair, definantly not meeting my EN or care.

I felt bad b/c apparently I never let him know enough I appreciated his efforts to make me happy, but like I told the MC I try to talk to him and look at him and he's asleep or flipping through the tv channels. He admitted that he uses sleep as an escape. He's been doing this for years.

All I keep doing is no LBs, ordering the book today. H is on fence on moving out, b/c doesn't know where to go and doesn't want to tell his parents-like they're not going to figure that one out. Anyhow, I sound sarcastic, but he is sucking me dry emotionally. He just keeps saying he's not happy, but what he's not saying is he thinks he's happier with OW.

Question is if he moves out, do I Plan B it with no contact? He does not have e-mail at work and he even said in MC that he would come to the house to see the kids, etc. and go to their soccer games. I asked him how is that any different than what he already does, he just wouldn't be sleeping in the house, which is what he wants b/c I distract him or is it so he can see OW more.

Gotta get to work. Hugs to all and I slept like a rock last night! and had Ben and Jerry's for breakfast, well only two spoons, had to get to work.

He kept saying he's a failure and he ruined my life. Everything negative.

Are you sure my H isn't attending MC with you? He says exactly the same thing.

PS: What are J&B?

<small>[ September 10, 2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>

pd-goodmorning girl! Yes, it is the oh Wooo is me stage. I ruined your life, you would be better off with someone who knows how to love you. UGH!

Again, plan A as long as you can stand it or until he moves out. She is kissing his rear in the hopes he'll go to her. You keep being the angel. Think of him as being mentally ill. It helped me. He is shutting down, I think, because he can't face what he did. He is trying to blame this, or that to deflect guilt from where it belongs. He chose affair over working on the marriage or helping you. It is bulls#*( on his part to cover what he did.

OK, that aside, we still have to find the real man underneath, he's still there.

Plan A really is about improving yourself. Making yourself a better person. Plan B is about protecting yourself from his abuse. When he is hurting the relationship. If he leaves, you need to take control, no he can't just come by to see the kids. That is a consequence of leaving. JMHO Hang in there.

PS You can always go to law school, but you can't always be with your kids-you are a good women to be there for your family-HUGS Jersey Girl

PPS You could become a divorce lawyer and defend those who suffer this way

Help!! H still wants to move out. I'm afraid it's so H can be with OW more easily. Do I tell H that? I had no LBs yesterday! and it was hard, I did run out the door as soon as H got in so I could go to the gym. I felt a panic attack coming on and the best way to quash it is to sweat. H did come up behind me this morning and put his arms around my waist and told me I was getting too skinny, it's the first time H has touched me since last Saturday.

I'm afraid if H leaves this evil OW will keep spinning her web and get pregnant. I'm sick with fear. MC said not to beg H to stay, but can I tell H why I think it's a bad idea? Or is that a LB.

Also should I flat out ask him if he's still seeing OW, I'm afraid if I do I will lose control and be a big LB.

Hugs.

At this point I don't see it as a LB to pry some basic information out of your H. I would suggest you approach him in a civil, cordial manner and request the info you need. Your mannerisms, voice tone, body language, etc. should not be presented as threatening. Yes, he is a jerk and very confused right now. From reading your posts it appears he is unstable and he is definitely struggling with guilt, shame, etc. Reaffirm your love for him but be firm. God bless!

What you can tell him is that if he decides to go then he must do what he must do and that you will not stand in his way. He may be expecting you to beg, plead, cry, etc. If you support this decision even though you totally disagree with it deep down, you respect him and his decision. When things start going wrong between him and the OW, he will remember this as a positive for you.

I know it's so hard. Be strong. Since you done labour 5 times. Try to think of it like labour pains. You will survive it. And it won't hurt so much when it's over. Just remember, he's the one who has to say goodbye to your children and explain to them why he's going.

If it's easier, try to arrange to take the children out while he moves. Do you have family/support who can help you?

<small>[ September 11, 2003, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>