Go with what you feel is right. I only started coming here myself, but I've been told we should only do what we're comfortable doing. I'm in the same situation. I would like to be with WS sexually, but I'm thinking it may not be a good idea if he is still in A. Although, it's an important EN, we still have to take care of ourselves physically and mentally. Besides, WS has a zillion other ENs I can work on.

Uhhhhh.... nooooo..... I don't think doing what "feels right" is generally the best way to proceed.

Marriage in general and infidelity in particular require that you act counter to what your instincts and emotions are telling you.

Love Busters are instinctual. Radical honesty and negotiating for what you want and need are counter intuitive.

Doing what "feels right" is a recipe for disaster much of the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C

o.k. well I thought it would make me feel good and it did temporarily. Just like his addiction to the A, mine is him. And was it just the best. He left shortly after, since he still had work to do, so he said. But would call later. He did, we spoke, it was fine. I asked him, though if he could call me back when we wouldn't have to rushed off the phone, since he was still working. He said he would, and of course I didn't hear from him. I did notice email activity late last night, (you know that spy girl thing), but it wasn't from his computer. So I guess we had gone over to see the OW after all. (heck for all I know there could be a totally new person involved).

I'm starting to get a feeling that he could have a major sexual addiction going on. Before the A, he did admit he was visiting porn sites and now this.

I feel used, even though I got MY OWN pleasure out of it, just that, and again, I keep going back to that self-pity party.

Cerri, I plan on writing those letters to expose the A throughout today and tomorrow and send them off ASAP. Not looking forward to consequences. Should I forewarn my H that I'm doing that? I should I behave from this point forward? I mean I know to avoid LBing, and this will be a tough time, but do I continue making contact? Calling, emailing, etc. I just feel like it's to soon for Plan B. Or maybe not?????

p.s.

I would welcome thoughts/ideas, on whether or not I should bring up a point about the OW in these letters I'll be writing to expose the affair. See she works with kids everyday and we all know that her morals aren't in good standings now. So without sounding argumentative or threatening, how would I go about mentioning this point? Do I even bother? and really it would just be to her workplace. I believe parents of these children should know who their kids are dealing with. Boy that sounds very vindictive, but that's not where it's coming from. If my daughter was around someone like that, I would want to know.

Thanks again all.
Blessings

Cerri / Harley's HELP!!!!

Based on my last post, I hadn't heard back from anyone (I realize your busy), however now things have escalated.

My H was no where to be found this a.m. and people were calling me looking for him. Both cells went directly to VM, which again is odd, tells me that they were off. Maybe on another trip??? Anyway, since I had the OW phone number, I called to see if she would pick up, went to VM. I wasn't going to even talk or leave a message, just curious. Well I guess she has a caller ID machine that's incredible. She contacted my H and he told her that it must have been me.

Now, he says that it's out of his hands on what action she'll take. Thinks it's harrassing. How can that be. I never spoke to her. Says that she's going to my boss' boss and to the local police to file a report. Oh brother. He's totally defending her and won't talk her out of anything. I'm not sure if he's lying or not. Says he will never speak to me again, under no circumstances, with the exception of the sell of our house.

I believe there's is much more to this story than I know. HIs actions, his defending her, for what??? HOnestly, I have not done a thing for them to feel this threatened. He's just being a Drama Queen. He has all the control to stop her from doing anything foolish.

At this point it's so ugly, that I'm not sure whether I should continue with any of this. Plan A or Plan B. But I don't want to over-react either.

Should I continue with Plan A or will that also be considered harrassment?

Please assist.

Hey Lemonchick..... hang in there...

First, NO don't forewarn that you are going to expose the A. It's construed as a threat, and it exposes you to terrible anger. Just do it.

Now, he says that it's out of his hands on what action she'll take. Thinks it's harrassing. How can that be.

LOL, it's not. Do the police in your town have nothing better to do than to visit women who call a cell phone looking for their husband who is AWOL and for whom others are looking? I doubt it. It's simply intimidation tactics on his part. Because you are threatening his addiction. DO NOT fall for it.

I never spoke to her. Says that she's going to my boss' boss and to the local police to file a report. Oh brother.

Let her. She'll look like an idiot. But you might want to consider talking to your boss about the situation. It depends on the relationship you have with her/him and how you think it might impact your job.

He's totally defending her and won't talk her out of anything. I'm not sure if he's lying or not. Says he will never speak to me again, under no circumstances, with the exception of the sell of our house.

He's not lying. He believes what he is saying right now. The man you see is not your husband. It is an addict who lives in your husband's body. You have to remember that. When this is over, and it will be, the man you knew will reemerge. I know this....I was once the WS.

I believe there's is much more to this story than I know. HIs actions, his defending her, for what??? HOnestly, I have not done a thing for them to feel this threatened.

Oh yes.... you are trying to keep your marriage, and that is very threatening. You are standing up for what is right and good and ethical. Do you have any idea how scary that is for someone who is doing something so horrible? You can't even begin to imagine.

He's just being a Drama Queen. He has all the control to stop her from doing anything foolish.

I doubt he has much control over anything.

At this point it's so ugly, that I'm not sure whether I should continue with any of this. Plan A or Plan B. But I don't want to over-react either.

Talk to me about Plan B. How could you do it? Would you need to leave your home? I'd be ok with forcing him out, but would you be financially able to stay there?

Should I continue with Plan A or will that also be considered harrassment?

Your PlA should look like this: No demands, no disrespect, no losing your temper. Be honest about what you know, how you know it and how you feel. Expose, expose, expose.

I would say PlB very soon.

C

I am generally not around weekends. Once in a while I peek in, but not ordinarily. So, for the weekend.... stay calm, get out and go somewhere with family and friends if you need to, write the exposure letters and send or post them to me, make no big changes, take no big actions.

Cerri / Harley's HELP!!!!
None of the Harleys post here at all. Cerri does (as you know).

Says that she's going to my boss' boss
How is this situation related to your job at all??

THAT could be construed as harassment.

I would welcome thoughts/ideas, on whether or not I should bring up a point about the OW in these letters I'll be writing to expose the affair. See she works with kids everyday and we all know that her morals aren't in good standings now. So without sounding argumentative or threatening, how would I go about mentioning this point?
What is the point you want to bring up? That she works with children?

Do I even bother? and really it would just be to her workplace. I believe parents of these children should know who their kids are dealing with.
If she is working with their children then they know she works with children.

Thinks it's harrassing. How can that be.
It can't be. People called you for him and you were just trying the numbers you had to locate him. IF you were to coninuously call/hang up, the a different story.

Says he will never speak to me again, under no circumstances, with the exception of the sell of our house.
I give him about 2 days and he'll call for something other than house.

I believe there's is much more to this story than I know.
Yes there is, but there's not much you can do. The ONLY control you have is you and your own actions.

HOnestly, I have not done a thing for them to feel this threatened. He's just being a Drama Queen.
Hmmm? Missing some panty hose, are ya'? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

He has all the control to stop her from doing anything foolish.
He has as much power over her actions as you do over his. Very little.

Should I continue with Plan A or will that also be considered harrassment?
I believe you should stay in Plan A for a bit. But I also believe you should just keep a low profile with him. Don't initiate any contact (at least for a few days). If he calls be polite. Don't get defensive or nasty in any way. Try to keep it short & sweet.

<small>[ September 12, 2003, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Chris,

Do I even bother? and really it would just be to her workplace. I believe parents of these children should know who their kids are dealing with.

How I meant to put it was that, the parents should know about the immoral behavior of this OW and being around their kids.

Says he will never speak to me again, under no circumstances, with the exception of the sell of our house.

Well, he's already called me twice. I let it go to VM, because I knew if I spoke to him it wouldn't be pretty. In the message he did indicated that I should now seek legal advice, because not only is he going to file for a divorce but that the OW will probably put a restraining order out on me. Again for what???? I did nothing. He is the one harrassing and threatening me.

He's accusing me of opening his cell bill statement to get her number (which btw he hasn't rec'd mail at the house since he left, which leads me to believe that everything is now going to his POB). He says that I brought all of this upon myself. I brought in the third party. So whatever the OW does is out of his control. CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS NONSENSE????

I think when she told him about my hang up call, she probably left out the part about me hanging up. She probably told him that I left an harrassing message (which of course I didn't). So if she does go to the police, then whatever, but my job is another story. If he allows this, then he's just completely gone. I've already gone through losing a job before when my 1st H was harrassing me. Employer wouldn't stand up for it. However my current boss knows everything, but the OW said she was going to the top. That would not be good.

Both of them have totally spun out of control. They are detroying each other and trying to get me to come along.

I left him a VM a bit ago, telling him about our house being shown tomorrow (I told him I would keep him posted, since I still live in the house), and I also indicated that I did not make any threats or harrassed or any such thing. That if she said I did, then to play back the message, because I'm sure she would have kept it. Well there isn't a message, just a hang up. Nothing I've done or said would be considered harrassment or stalking. Look up the definition. I also said that if I were to lose my job over this, then that's it. I can not lose my job, I've already lost enough (not to mention my house).

I'm really not feeling very good about any of this. No hope.

If I follow through with sending letters, exposing the affair, all I can say would be how I feel. I can not mention how I obtained this intelligence. Not to him anyway.

Are there any samplings out there anywhere, of how or what to say?

I really do not want any communication with him for a few days. It's almost like doing both plans together. Has anyone ever heard about someone doing that?

Please respond with any advice. All are welcome.

Still desperate.

UPDATE:

My H has called 3 more times this a.m. alone and I let them all go into VM. After hearing the messages, he insists that I need to stop contacting/harrassing the OW. That he's aware that she's tried to contact my employer, not sure how successful. Also contacted the police. Well, if calling a number, then immediately hanging up is a definition of contact, then they need to look at a dictionary. I never spoke to her or went near her in any way. This is all crazy. He says he can't control her, but yet he's trying to control me by telling me what to do or what not to do. I realize I'm probably repeating myself, but he insists that she has nothing to do with what is going on with us, that she's an innocent party. oh brother.

I called him back knowing that I would get VM and as calm as I could be, I let him know that I did not receive his cell bill statement, I made no contact with the OW, simply hung up and that even though he says he can't control her actions, I asked that he speak to her to request not calling my employer. That now more than ever I'll be needing my job. He's made requests to both of us before when she was emailing me and asked that neither one of us keep this up.

If she does make contact with my employer, then exposing this A is going to be, IMO, more pertinent. My immediate boss knows, but we're both worried that the higher ups will find out.

Cerri, your sampling of what to say in a letter exposing the A is great and if you don't mind I'll use bits of it. - "I have some personal ethical guidelines about exposure. It needs to be done in a way that is respectful and honest. So you say, "My husband is having an affair with ____ (and I would use her name). I love my husband very much, this is very painful for me and it's destroying our family. I want to save our marriage and I can't do it as long as she is in the picture. Please help me in this, encourage him to do the right thing and end the relationship with her and most of all be supportive of our marriage and our family."

Any thoughts here?

bump <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Lemon,

I went throught the same thing...... here are my suggestions:

1. Notify your HR dept. Your work can not do anything until she violates your work environment.

2. Notify your police dept. in the town where you work and where you live. Let them know she has threatened your work. They may not be able to serve her with an RO but at least there will be a note of her actions.

3. Your H is babbling.....cut off all contact from him. Since you have not had an actual phone conversation with her, it could have happened from someone hitting redial?????? Tell him NOT to use your phone to call the OW.

I heard all the same babbling and lies. OW was going to have her H (imagine that) send a letter to my HR dept to get me fired (like she can tell them what to do) for using the company computer to send her an e-mail..... hmmph.... My HR dept was informed, I did not violate any laws..... nor was I reprimanded.

Just be prepared for this type of OW to try to get you into more trouble. Document these events in a journal with dates and time. If she calls, record her messages (may not be admissable in court but it could help the police see you are not making it up). Get caller id and see if you can setup a trap and trace line for your home phone.

IMHO,
L.

Orchid,

Thank you for your advice. Like I mentioned my immediate boss knows everything, but both of us would really like it if it did not go further. The company that I work for is under a parent company, so when I had called, her caller id showed the parent company. I really did not want to go to their HR.

My H told me yesterday that he had begged and pleaded with the OW not to contact my employer, but again said he had no control over her. Well why not give her one of his ultimatums, like he gives me: "do not make further contact or pursue this further. if you do I will no longer speak to you". But he doesn't want to blow anything, right?

Still calling and leaving me messages to the affect, that he doesn't want to hear from me unless I am prepared to tell him how I got her unlisted number. And to just stop harrassing or contacting. Well, I'm not going to give him the source of this information and I am not harrassing or contacting her. It was one phone hang up.

Also, he claims that she contact his good friend who happens to be an attorney that he's been getting advice from. The OW faxed him my emails to her. First off, my H actually is helping her out with this by giving her a referral to an attorney and second my 3 emails had nothing in it but a few name calling. No threats, etc. (that was before I knew anything about MB).

And again he mentioned something about, leaving her out of this mess between him and his ex-wife, I mean soon to be ex-wife. She has nothing to do with this. Verbatim!!!

WOW.

So now my questions is, if I do go forward with the part of Plan A (exposing the A), sending letters and emails to especially the OW friends, family, work, etc., wouldn't that make things even uglier. More questions about how I got home address, email address and so forth. They will definitely bring in the police on that. Then I would have to say how I acquired the info. (partly PI work and partly spy software).

Don't know the ramifications of this. Any attorneys out there?

Keep the great advice coming folks. I really need it more than ever, since I'm trying to cut off contact with my H.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

up...

Cerri,

HELP!!!!

Hey Lemon,

The advice you got from Orchid is very good. The things she said about her H and the threats that the OW made towards her are so common as to be expected. It's really scary when it's directed at you, but if you can stand back and see that it happens to a lot of people and that it's simply an attempt at intimidation then it's a little easier to stay calm and to continue to do what needs to be done.

My H told me yesterday that he had begged and pleaded with the OW not to contact my employer, but again said he had no control over her.

The interesting thing about this is that it's conflict in their relationship, and that's a good thing. She's being a b*tch and he's being demanding. I like it. It withdraws love units and makes them less attractive to each other.

Still calling and leaving me messages to the affect, that he doesn't want to hear from me unless I am prepared to tell him how I got her unlisted number.

One does wonder at the ambiguity there..... if he doesn't want to hear from you then maybe he shouldn't call!!

And to just stop harrassing or contacting. Well, I'm not going to give him the source of this information and I am not harrassing or contacting her. It was one phone hang up.

And so you do what you're doing. Ignore it.

Also, he claims that she contact his good friend who happens to be an attorney that he's been getting advice from. The OW faxed him my emails to her. First off, my H actually is helping her out with this by giving her a referral to an attorney and second my 3 emails had nothing in it but a few name calling. No threats, etc. (that was before I knew anything about MB).

Then she's paying money for nothing. And once again it's conflict for them instead of romance.

So now my questions is, if I do go forward with the part of Plan A (exposing the A), sending letters and emails to especially the OW friends, family, work, etc., wouldn't that make things even uglier.

You need to make sure that everything you say is factual and that you can back it up. Make it short and to the point. "My husband is having an affair with ____. I want to save my marriage, please encourage them to do the right thing and to end their relationship."

No names, no threats, no vindictiveness. Just the facts, ma'am.

More questions about how I got home address, email address and so forth. They will definitely bring in the police on that. Then I would have to say how I acquired the info. (partly PI work and partly spy software).

You hired a PI? Spy software on your home computer?

Don't know the ramifications of this. Any attorneys out there?

Call a women's shelter and get a referral. Some will give you a first consultation at n/c. Let me know what they say.

Keep the great advice coming folks. I really need it more than ever, since I'm trying to cut off contact with my H.

If you are going to end contact then it really is in your best interest to send a Plan B letter.

Why don't we work on writing that?

C

Cerri, thanks for responding. He must have called be 1/2 dozen times today. Let all of them go into VM. Although, after work I did try to call, just to say hi and to see how his day was. He called me right back and proceeded with the same question, "How did you get her number?" I asked him why was it so important to him to know. The real question should be, did she contact my employer like they threatened to do? And why didn't you say, if you do contact the employer, then I will never speak to you again.
He says the reason it's so important to him is that I pose a threat to do harm to either one of them. That again either I opened his mail or broken into her home and dialed 114 from her phone. I guess that's a method of retrieving a number. ??? So now I'm reduced to B & E. They give me too much credit. He's 6'6" and she's a pretty tough looking sister (no offense to anyone). Me, I have my daughter to think about. I wouldn't do anything for her sake.

You hired a PI? Spy software on your home computer?

Yes I did. I thought it would help me to deal with all of this. I did get some good info., a video footage. That is how I was able to get home addresses of a few people associated with her. Unfortunately it pretty much wiped out my savings. And yes, I installed spy software on his computer before he left. So now I get a log of every keystroke, website, etc. The only thing is it doesn't log is when the mouse is used. It that so bad? With that I was able to discover that she was definitely going to his place, because I would see hotmail activity logs in the middle of the night. Which is hers. From that I was able to get her contacts. That is why I asked the question, if I should send letters/emails, exposing the A, when it gets back to them, they'll want to know where I got this info. and I don't want to get into trouble. I guess the question is to whom do I contact on the OW side? Know what I mean?


Keep the great advice coming folks. I really need it more than ever, since I'm trying to cut off contact with my H.

If you are going to end contact then it really is in your best interest to send a Plan B letter.

I think I mis-spoke. I didn't mean I wanted to totally cut him off. Just for the few days that was suggested to me. Until we both cooled down. I'm not ready to give up this soon. It's just hard to hear him telling me to just stop. Stop making contact. That would suggest I tried several times to make contact with the OW and it was once. Singular.

Anyway, I did schedule an appt. for a counseling session for Wednesday. So we'll see.

Always appreciate the input. I'm truly greatful that I have this outlet.

Thank you.

Lemon,

Let him keep 'wondering'.....don't divulge much...... let them both wonder.... less time for them to spend on their A if they are having discussions about what you might be up to. Then don't do anything drastic.....their own imagination will be their own downfall. U can step back and watch.

As for the HR dept, parent co or not, employee's safety is important to any company. Is the OW in management?

L.

Ok, but here's the thing.... do you want to play mind games or do you want to save your marriage? Now granted... playing games is more satisfying in the moment... it gives you that rush of power when you are on top but in the end it's counter productive.

Harley's plan is brilliant and elegantly simple. Plan A... a negotiating strategy to end the affair. It's a two pronged approach in which you let him know you are willing to address the issues in the marriage prior to the A and in which you confront him with what he is doing and how it affects you (respectfully and courteously) and you expose the A.

During all of this you need to practice being honest, courteous, respectful. The idea is that if you go to Plan B then you leave a good impression that says you are an attractive alternative to the affair partner.

In PlB, you end all contact in order to protect the feelings you have for your spouse so that when the affair ends YOU are still willing to discuss reconciliation. A big danger to the marriage is always that you will decide he's not worth the trouble because of all the pain you have experienced and the way that pain destroys the feelings of love.

Now, if you try to mix those plans you have no plan at all and really something of a mess that doesn't do you any good. You aren't leaving much of a good impression and you aren't being protected. Trying to pique his interest by making him wonder what you're up to is likely to backfire. I'm an ardent advocate of being honest. It's the foundation of MB and things fall apart without it.

At this point you've confronted, you've exposed to a certain degree and you've let him know that you are willing to work on the marriage. And he's throwing all that back in your face and making threats. I would do PlB. I would also call Harley again and see what he has to say if you can get into the show sooner.

C

Orchid,

As for the HR dept, parent co or not, employee's safety is important to any company. Is the OW in management?

Not really. What I do know is that she is a Speech Pathologist that works in L.A. County School Dist. I've been trying to search the web, but have not come up with anything yet. Because she works with kids, it concerns me that someone like this deals with kids every day. I had mentioned before, if my child was in her care I would want to know everything I could about her.
But that information was given to me by my H, so I can expose the A to the employer, once I find out who it is.

The OW friends and family however is another story. Because of how I obtained the info.
Still ??????

Cerri,

do you want to play mind games or do you want to save your marriage?

Of course save the marriage! It seems though, that when we do talk, the conversation goes round and round, over the same things. Partly because he's uncomfortable talking about it and doesn't answer questions completely or answers the question with a question or changes the subject. You know what I mean? Pure avoidance.

in which you let him know you are willing to address the issues in the marriage prior to the A and in which you confront him with what he is doing and how it affects you (respectfully and courteously) and you expose the A.

Tough deal when he avoids seeing me, and talking about the subject of the A or our marriage.
I don't know, just feel like the longer he's away the worse it'll be for our marriage, no matter what I do or not do.

My session with Jennifer moved up to tonight and I've started my list of questions. But I thank you all again for the excellent imput. I thank God everyday that you are all out there.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Update:

Had my phone counseling session with Jennifer. In a nutshell:

1. What is my plan? What do I need/want from this relationship if it were to work out? There will need to be a "new type of relationship".

2. WS needs to understand that there needs to be total seperation from the A.

3. My Plan A should show him I'm an attractive alternative. Protect and be caring.

4. Give the WS no justification for his actions. Freak him out.

5. There's competing Love Banks. Get the WS to see he as another option. When speaking, start off be saying, "I'd love it if....."

6. Believes Plan B should be happening soon. If A continues, then expose the A to the world.

Unfortunately our time was over. Always too short. But since that phone session last Tuesday, my H and I have had quite a few pleasant phone coversations. I did my best by not bringing up the OW and their situation. But he brought it up, in saying that the situation was over. That it was decided to cease the relationship. I asked what happened, who actually ended it, why, etc. He said that it was a compatability problem. As shocked as I was to hear that, I said how interesting that was to hear, since he had always come to her defense, that he said he cared for her, etc. His comment back to me was that he of course would care for anyone put in a situation that they didn't deserve to be in. I thought to myself, where was his concern or care for his own wife. I certainly didn't deserve this. The conversation was brief and I didn't want to get into a blown out discussion, so I ended it. Just waiting to see his next move.

He came home Wednesday and Thursday nights to check in, deal with certain responsibilities as it pertains to the home and even wanted to be physical. Which all was very pleasant. Friday night came back to take us all out to dinner, stayed for awhile, fell asleep on my lap as I massaged his head and face like he likes. Not once did he spend the night. That is number 1 rule for him.

As all this was happening, I couldn't help but wonder to myself, where was she? Was she just out of town? And most importantly, as much as I enjoyed having him home as brief as it was each day and his touch, his hugs, his kisses, I thought, oh my gosh, his EM are being met all over the place. Was I getting mine met. Answer: NO. I was feeling like the booby prize (for lack of a better word).

He continues to check her email from his computer. Why? Does she know this?

Last night my daugther and I went out to dinner with friends. He called later while we were still entertaining. I asked him if I could call him back within half hour and that was o.k. After our company left, I called and I guess what, got his VM. Thought he would have returned my call, but as of today, Sunday, at mid-day, no word at all from him. I know he has work to catch up on, or is he with her?

No matter how hard I try not to think about these things, it's consuming. My emotions are being played with like a tennis ball in a match game. Yes, I know, I'm the only one that either allow this to happen or not to happen. Just not sure what my next move is. Do I continue to ask those questions that I so desperately want answers to? or do I just leave it alone and wait for his next move?

Thanks in advance for any support or input.

Ang

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />