Cerri: I need to write a plan B letter for my H. I can't seem to find the rules for the letter and in addition I am unsure as to whether I should mention the addiction and to what extent. Do you cite certain examples? And finally, is there a timeframe for it - like would I say that I am going to do these things (like moving) within a two week period or do you hand them the letter with all the ducks in a row?

Thanks and I will be more than happy to answer ANY questions. Thank you.

Angelia

Hi Angelia,

Here's the link to the PBL guidelines. I tell women to keep it short and sweet, this is not the time to go into a long sentimental thing about your first kiss and how much you love him.

Why don't you give me a little hx. What is the addiction, I assume it is still going on, and what have you done so far to try to change things.

And yes, if you go to PlB you have it all together and do it in one motion. Otherwise it's a threat and that's not ok.

PBL Guidelines:

• I love you.
• I married you for life. I want to stay married to you
• I am willing to do what it takes to be the spouse you've always wanted and to address the things I did wrong in the marriage.
• The affair/neglect/abuse is so painful for me that it will destroy the love I have for you. In order to protect those feelings I must end all contact with you.
• As soon as the affair/neglect/abuse is over I would love to talk with you about our future.
• Until that time please respect my wish for no contact whatsoever
• In an emergency you can reach me through______.
• Arrangements for seeing children and handling finances are_____.

~~~~~

Fill me in a little ok? Cool. Thanks.

C

Cerri: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why don't you give me a little hx. What is the addiction, I assume it is still going on, and what have you done so far to try to change things.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We've been married 10 years next month. We have NO children together. Before I talk about him let me tell you about me. I was sexually abused by my father from 13 until I left for college and have not returned to my parents home ever. Have been in counseling off and on my whole life for this but never really did the soul work for it - it was more superficial as the pain is intense.

I meet H. He's wonderful - everything I needed. Fell in love instantly and got married quickly. He was a sex addict when I met him but I didn't know it. He lies well and covers it up when necessary. I noticed years ago that his use of porn went from magazines/videos to internet and then one day a paternity suit landed on my door (escalation ring a bell?) Anyway, h and I were in mc and as it got too uncomfortable for him he stopped. I have remained in ic.

It was the ic who suggested H was probably a sex addict and gave me a few books to read, and sent me to a cosa group. I've only been twice to cosa but have spent countless hours researching this - reading, talking to other co-dependents of sex addicts and still in ic.

I have confronted my H with this knowledge. He says I am crazy - he doesn't have a problem and all the lies/deceit/coverup that comes with the addict.

His life is in turmoil right now - affair, oc, lawyers, finances, our marriage, etc. So, his porn usage is more and more and more and more. I do not know right now if he's acting out but I tend to think that he's spending most of his time on the internet.

I have on several occasions during the last month explained to him (or nagged according to him) how the addiction works, what he's missing, how things are affecting our home, our marriage, the kids (our blended step-family), etc.

I realize that as long as he is in denial and not working on his recovery our marriage has NO chance. His addiction will always rule him. He will always lie and be deceitful to feed his addiction. It's why they say you are powerless over it. I finally figured that part out.

I have been thinking that I need to address some of these things in the letter with examples of how the addiction is affecting us.

Cerri, I know he has already said in the past that he will not leave this house - if we split I have to go. Truthfully, it's worth it to me to let him keep the house for the peace I will have once gone. I am concerned about his son - my step-son - and who will take care of him and I feel so awful about that. I feel like I am taking myself and my daughter out of the mess and leaving him behind. UGH - talk about negative emotions.

Anyway, your response is most appreciated. Thank you.

A

{{{{{angelia}}}}}}
Just wanted to say HI and good luck. Take care of yourself!!- Dru

Hi Angelia,

Ok, that's what I wanted to know, that there's a longer history than just a couple of months and that you've tried other things in the interim.

It was the ic who suggested H was probably a sex addict and gave me a few books to read, and sent me to a cosa group. I've only been twice to cosa but have spent countless hours researching this - reading, talking to other co-dependents of sex addicts and still in ic.

I'm very glad you are doing the reading and getting some support. I have some issues and differences of opinion with some of the co-dependency suggestions. Not all of it, but enough to be significant. The focus is pretty much individual and you have to keep in mind that this school of thought isn't much good at restoring interdependent relationships such as marriage.


I have confronted my H with this knowledge. He says I am crazy - he doesn't have a problem and all the lies/deceit/coverup that comes with the addict.

But it's not whether or not what he is doing is ok or even if he has a problem. (He does, I know, but even if he didn't...) It's about the fact that this behavior is offensive and painful for you and that if he wants to be successfully married to you he needs to take that into account and refrain from doing those things.

Regardless of whether or not the behavior is morally and ethically questionable like an affair or an addiction or if it's just annoying like bowling with the guys, the concept is the same. If your partner objects you don't do it. So it's not so much about making a statement about the rightness or wrongness of his actions, it's about stating how you feel and asking for consideration.

His life is in turmoil right now - affair, oc, lawyers, finances, our marriage, etc. So, his porn usage is more and more and more and more. I do not know right now if he's acting out but I tend to think that he's spending most of his time on the internet.

Yeah, definitely time for PlB.

I have on several occasions during the last month explained to him (or nagged according to him) how the addiction works, what he's missing, how things are affecting our home, our marriage, the kids (our blended step-family), etc.

And as much as I know that you want to do that and that it feels right... as you can see it's not working. It's lecturing and disrespectful. It's telling him that you know more than he does and that you are right and he is wrong. Now, I'm not suggesting that that isn't the case, I'm saying that to use that strategy in marrige is a love buster.

I realize that as long as he is in denial and not working on his recovery our marriage has NO chance. His addiction will always rule him. He will always lie and be deceitful to feed his addiction. It's why they say you are powerless over it. I finally figured that part out.

That's a tough realization to grasp isn't it? And the thing too that people don't get is that "powerless" doesn't mean "Yippeee.... I can do whatever I want because I can't control it..." it means, "I have to put extraordinary precautions and boundaries in place so that it becomes impossible for me to succumb to this addiction."

I have been thinking that I need to address some of these things in the letter with examples of how the addiction is affecting us.

In the part where it says, "this behavior is so painful for me that it is destroying the love I have for you..." insert some of the examples there.

I'm wondering too what kinds of exposure you have done? Have you talked to his family or his boss? You could think along the lines of an intervention before PlB. You can email it to me or post it here and I'd be happy to look at it once you have it written.

Cerri, I know he has already said in the past that he will not leave this house - if we split I have to go. Truthfully, it's worth it to me to let him keep the house for the peace I will have once gone.

Yeah, I agree. Do what you have to protect you.

I am concerned about his son - my step-son - and who will take care of him and I feel so awful about that. I feel like I am taking myself and my daughter out of the mess and leaving him behind. UGH - talk about negative emotions.

How old is he? Is there anyone you can confide in MIL, SS's mom, that could help out in this area?

C

Cerri, thanks for your reply... I am confused by this statement.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm very glad you are doing the reading and getting some support. I have some issues and differences of opinion with some of the co-dependency suggestions. Not all of it, but enough to be significant. The focus is pretty much individual and you have to keep in mind that this school of thought isn't much good at restoring interdependent relationships such as marriage.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even in Harley's articles on codependency he says that it truly happens in addict families - why would this be different? I understand that when we are joined we become ONE but my codependency enables him and tries to 'fix him, etc". Just wanted to understand this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If your partner objects you don't do it. So it's not so much about making a statement about the rightness or wrongness of his actions, it's about stating how you feel and asking for consideration. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Isn't me demanding him to stop also a love buster? And the truth is he can't stop without help. He has an illness....you already know that with all the work you do with sex addicts. So, me saying you have to stop isnt' gonna work. So, what consideration should I ask for...I've already told him that one of my boundaries (new) is that I will not have relations with him while he is viewing pornography. I want it to be just me and him - not the video or computer.

He's 38 and has probably been an addict since 16 if his stories he tells me are correct. Began using prostitutes even for his 'first' experiences. You asked about me doing an intervention first - Maybe that would work but I fear not. His family is pretty dysfunctional as well and no one - NO ONE but my counselor and the lawyers know of the affair and possible oc. So, it would take some getting up to speed before the intervention could even take place.

Any other thoughts? I just hate this whole mess.

Thanks again.

bump

Hi Angelia,

I am confused by this statement....

......Even in Harley's articles on codependency he says that it truly happens in addict families - why would this be different? I understand that when we are joined we become ONE but my codependency enables him and tries to 'fix him, etc". Just wanted to understand this.

I have issues with the traditional therapy position and the codependency movement position that says to require radical openess and honesty in marriage and to insist on accountability is somehow unhealthy.

No where outside of MB have I seen the idea that says in marriage we need to take each other's feelings into account before we make decisions and no where else have I encountered the statement that there is no privacy in marriage. These are the big issues I have with the co-groups.

I agree that when there is an addiction of any sort being gambling or infidelity or whatever there is a tendency for the spouse to become obsessed with what the straying partner is doing and that allowing that obsession to take over is not healthy. OTOH I am adamant that there needs to be extraordinary precautions to protect the marriage as part of recovery and most conventional thinking calls those things co-dependent and unhealthy.

Shirly Glass in her book Not Just Friends talks about a couple she worked with for years where the wife was always susicious that the H was having an affair. He of course said that she was suspicious and paranoid and obsessed and Glass says that as their therapist she agreed with that assessment. Well, lo and behold...after 10 years they find out that he'd been serially unfaithful all that time.

I think she went on to say that the wife ended the marriage and that there really wasn't hope for recovery. Think what a difference radical honesty, accountability and a good strategy for recovery would have made.

Isn't me demanding him to stop also a love buster?

You are absolutely right. You can't demand that he stop (technically it's not a lber, but that's getting very nit picky and not at all helpful <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). You can only let him know how you feel, ask for what you want, go through the motions of exposing, and those don't work to get him into treatment you do PlB. To protect you.

And the truth is he can't stop without help. He has an illness....you already know that with all the work you do with sex addicts.

Right. That's why with an addiction you need to do things that break through the fog a little. Almost all will say it wasn't until their spouse caught them or their boss found out or their families knew (regardless of the addiction) that they could see a little of the destruction they were wreaking and begin to consider seeking help.

So, me saying you have to stop isnt' gonna work. So, what consideration should I ask for...I've already told him that one of my boundaries (new) is that I will not have relations with him while he is viewing pornography. I want it to be just me and him - not the video or computer.

Well, I would say your boundaries are your level of enthusiasm or not. If you're not thrilled with it, don't do it. You can't force him to not do something, but you can refuse to participate.

He's 38 and has probably been an addict since 16 if his stories he tells me are correct. Began using prostitutes even for his 'first' experiences.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I hear. But you know what? The addicts that I know are some of the people I like the best. They're not evil ogres, they have a terrible disease that eats at their soul. Any woman who has struggled with a food/sugar/chocolate compulsion has a tiny glimpse into the world of addiction. Imagine that you are being asked to give all that up for the rest of your life. Now multiply that by about 10,000.... you might be getting close.

I have an incredible amount of awe and respect for those who do the hard recovery work. They are amazing people. And they have much to offer the world that others who have not been to the dark side and back can't even begin to fathom.

You asked about me doing an intervention first - Maybe that would work but I fear not. His family is pretty dysfunctional as well and no one - NO ONE but my counselor and the lawyers know of the affair and possible oc. So, it would take some getting up to speed before the intervention could even take place.

Yeah, you need to have people who are on board and supportive. Your family? Siblings? Friends? Church family?

Any other thoughts? I just hate this whole mess.

PlB. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> You need to protect you, and hope that he comes around. It's the detachment part at work.

C

<small>[ September 22, 2003, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: Roberta61 ]</small>

Hi Cerri and Angelia <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Angelia, you have my ongoing support around all the difficult decisions you are making and actions you are taking.....you know that already I'm sure. Miss hearing from you on the Recovery side of this forum. Been checking on you here, though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Cerri,

I really appreciate the way you are sorting all of the co-addict/co-dependency stuff out in a way that makes sense. I'm learning from you. I'm leaning very strongly towards the MB side of things. It just fits for me. My supevisor does his M work differently than most too....sees couples as couples.....doesn't split them up unless absolutely necessary. Believes that m partners should know everything about each other anyway.

Thanks for being a mentor by example, and for helping me with my M and recovery. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Roberta

Cerri: Where can I e-mail my plan B letter to you for editing and/or review. Some of the examples I would prefer not to post here.

Thank you.

Angelia

Angelia,
I am also married to a Sex Addict. Roberta suggested that I come here and read the advice that Cerri has given you. I commend you on your courage to do Plan B. I am in fear that Plan B would push my SAWH (SexAddict WaywardHusband - maybe we should make a new abbreviation) to plunge right back into it again. At this point, he is attempting Recovery with me. He has had many slips though.

I am so sorry to hear of your situation. You can read my recent posts in In Recovery. We just finished a few days of dealing with the Deputy Sheriff because we called to reveal the affair to one of the OW's H and she complained that my H was stalking her. 2 or more contacts is a misdemeanor, combined with a restraining order and continued contact it becomes a felony. Part of me is relieved that he is seeing some serious consequences for this behavior.

This is a very hard thing to deal with. I wish you the best of luck in moving on with your life if Plan B does not work for you. I'm so sad to see that there is so much of this in the world.

Good luck and God Bless!

help@saveyourmarriagecentral.com <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Roberta <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

onlyucan.... many of us have/had the same fears about PlB and the possible repercussions.
What kinds of things are going on for you and your hubby? Is there an A now?

And just to note in terms of abbreviations, I really shy away from the WS or SA labels simply because it is limiting and judgmental. If it's a first post or a need to explain new info I have no problem, but I don't see much help in reminding yourself over and over again of the things that are so painful. So, go ahead and just use H... it's easier and kinder. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C