Hello everyone. I've got a HUGE cofession to make here. One which is sure to anger many of you who have faithfully stuck with me through this for the last 8 weeks. Ok, here goes...

I made a strategic decision Friday evening to take a step backwards into Plan A for the weekend. I fully realize that this probably will lengthen the time we are all hurting, and probably set back all the work I've done thus far. I'm fully prepared to start plan B from scratch.

Here's what I did. First off I got her some nice flowers for her new apartment. I told her that there were no other mptives behind it, just wanted to get her something for her new place.

Secondly, I wrote her a nice, elegant two page letter further expounding on the efforts and changes that I've made and how things will be different if she comes home. Also, I outlined a plan for recovery and basically layed out her options as I see them at this moment. Now before you all go off half cocked, I didn't give up the farm here. I told her in no uncertain terms that there were terms to be adhered to before she could come home. I expressed how much I love her and want another chance at saving our family and that I want to devote the rest of my life to being the best husband I can for her.

Thirdly, I helped her move some stuf over to her place. She has a cold and a broken foot, so I thought it was a nice jesture to offer a hand.

Finally, and this is gonna blow you guys away, I gave her some money for groceries. Not much, but enough to pick up some essentials.

Ok, now I can already feel anger and rage headed my way. Just calm downa asecond...let me explain my reasoning a little. First off, I think Mike is correct in that we didn't have a very long plan A. So I figured if I put all of my best intentions into a letter (which she can pull out a reflect on over and over again) it would serve as continual reminder of my love and adoration of her. I know, it alows her to take up nearly perminant residence on that fence. Eating fist fulls of cake..I understand. However, I figured that with the plan B letter and this new letter, she would really have something to think about when she is feeling down and miserable. Especially on Christmas, when I'll have the kids, I figure she'll really be reconsidering what she is doing. Also, i didn't expect her to make a decision over night, not at all. I told in the letter that I wanted her to finish moving in and get settled for awhile before even considering the offer. Also, i mentioned that I couldn't promise how long this offer would be on the table. I am getting on with life and life will be ok.

Now before the 2x4's start swinging, I just want to make it clear that this was not an emtional breakdown on my part. This was a case of looking at all the advice, looking at all the data on this site, looking at everything Jenn has said about common sense problem solving during all of this and forming a new game plan. So, I back peddled into plan A for this wekend. I WILL start Plan B II on Monday. I have started looking for an intermediary. I've made a list of people I think would be acceptable to my W and who i think would be willing to do it. I will begin to contact some of them this evening. I'm attacking this with a whole new resolve. Please trust me and bear with me.

In case you are wondering about her reaction to the letter, it was exactly as I expected. She dove head first back into the fog. She told me the next day that the letter really made her angry, but wouldn't explain why. I figure it adds just one more level of conflict and upheaval to her life. It gives her something to really make her question what she's doing. I really feel it was a good strategic move.

Ok, explanation over...standing tall with my chest out waiting for a full frontal assault. Go ahead, let me have it...

<small>[ November 02, 2003, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]</small>

WMWB,

Believe it or not chere....but as mediocre as your Plan B was....if you can do a Plan A instead, it might not be a bad idea. The ONLY reason anyone told you to go to B (and I'm sure that included Jenn) is because you were miserable and Love Busting left and right!!!! We thought we could protect you from yourself better in Plan B. Alas....that wasn't the case, since you could not seem to adhere to B either. But PLEASE.....do not go BACK AND FORTH. Get your act together and decide to do at least one of the plans well....okay? If you think you can handle a plan A now without LBing....DO ONE! Stop jumping from one to the other. Stay in it for a while until it looks like your wife is trying to decide between the two of you and sees you as a reasonable alternative to the affair. Next time you're thinking of a letter...for pete's sake....let us make sure it's not full of LBs. Let me just ask you one question....why hire a counselor, or post a bunch of stuff here....if you aren't going to listen to anyone??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I would much rather see you in a GREAT plan A....than a crummy Plan B. Regroup, talk to Jenn and clear any changes with her.

<small>[ November 02, 2003, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong> Let me just ask you one question....why hire a counselor, or post a bunch of stuff here....if you aren't going to listen to anyone??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well Star, I'm sure it doesn't seem at all like I'm following any advice. But I greatly apreciate the advice and counsel.

For what it is worth, I don't think I can do a good plan A at this point. This weekend proved that to me. I caught myself lBing several times. Not in an angry way, but disrespectful judgements and selfish demands in a humorus way. I was joking around and giving her a hard time, only she didn't think it was at all funny. Bad move on my part.

Also, for what it is worth, I think she is trying to decide between our marriage and this other lifestyle. I think she is having a very hard time with that right now. That is why I thought it was a good idea to jump back to plan A for the weekend and show how much I care for her and love her. Now Monday, I will begin a new plan B. This time I will do everything I can to follow all the advice I'm given.

I know me saying it means nothing, you guys need to see proof. Just wait, I promise you I'm commited to this plan B. You will see.

Thank you everyone who has continued to put up with me through this. This time I won't let you down.

WMWB,

If I hear one more person tell me that they "can't" do a Plan A or the can't do a Plan B....I just might jump of a bridge. There really is only one thing you CAN'T do if you want results....you can't do BOTH....they are too diametrically different. If you try to go and back and forth....you will only succeed in doing NEITHER.

From the beginning, you've been like a loose cannon. There's a little difference in the advice, but not so much that the basics are not the same. So let's try this: Which plan is the MOST impossible for you to do well. No matter which plan you do(A OR B)...being free of Lbs is ESSENTIAL! And if you're still love busting...your're shooting yourself in the foot.

WMWB -

Jeepers. I just read this entire thread. I think my head spun all the way around three or four times.

I have no idea what you ought to be doing right now. I'll leave that to the experts.

But I will agree with one thing: Please do one thing or the other; either Plan A or Plan B. If you think you can do a good Plan A, great. If you think you can do a good Plan B, also great.

If you can't do either one, please come visit Washington, DC (or alternatively, go camp on Cerri's lawn) for a while. We'll make SURE you're in Plan B.

(Hmm. Cerri, should I have volunteered that for you? Prolly not. But if you chain WMWB to the Maypole, he probably won't bother you much except when he's howling to the moon. Then again, he's already doing that here, soo..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

I quit.

Sorry, but I have found that having held a few dozen hands through these sagas, the emotional toll it takes on us adviser-types when someone gives mere lip service to the program is just too much.

I hope you kids can work it out. I would suggest you post the letter you gave her so the rest of the samaritans can help you pick up the pieces.

WMWB, I've been reading your posts for about a week now, and have finally decided to register and write a response. A little about me first... My husband had an affair about 5 years ago. At that point in time, I was sure our marriage was over. During the affair, but prior to my finding out about it, he treated me like DIRT! I asked him several times if there was someone else, but he denied there was, every single time. He said he hadn't been happy in years and it was all my fault, yadda, yadda, yadda. I suspected he was having an affair, and decided I'd better do everything in my power to try to fix our marriage and "win him back" before it was too late. However, nothing I did seemed to make a difference. I even wrote him a long letter, explaining everything I would do to change---listed all the things I knew of that made him unhappy (to his credit, he had told me several times over the years what bothered him about me/our marriage) and what I would do differently if he'd only give the chance. And I really TRIED to make those changes!

However, eventually, I got tired of trying to single-handedly fix everything, and of doing the things I knew he wanted/needed me to do, without him appreciating or even acknowledging my efforts. And I switched gears. I told him that I couldn't continue on the way things were---that I had at least tried---and that if he really still wanted out, he knew where the door was. Living with him, and being nice to him while he treated me like the scum of the earth, was taking its toll on me, to the point that I could barely function. I just couldn't do it any more. So, for my own sanity, I started acting as if he didn't exist (and AGAIN asked him to please leave). I didn't try to talk to him anymore, didn't try to meet any of his needs, didn't do his laundry, didn't ask him what he wanted for supper (though I did set a plate out for him, for the sake of the kids). I came and went without telling him where I was going or when I'd be home (and made arrangements for the kids to either come with me or stay with my parents---never asked him to watch the kids). We basically lived completely separate lives, while living under the same roof.

However, eventually, I reached a point where living this way was more than I could handle. It was shortly after I told him that it was REALLY time for him to leave; and gave him a list of things we'd have to do during, or prior to, our getting a divorce (divide up property, figure out visitations for the kids, etc.) that he ended the affair (he never did move out) and decided that maybe we should give the marriage another try. When faced with the REALITY of losing me and the kids, the fog seemed to clear enough for him to make a decision about who he REALLY wanted to be with. I found out about the affair a couple of days after he ended it (thanks to the ow, who was obviously quite upset that he didn't leave me for her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )---but that's a whole 'nuther story. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I realize that your situation is a bit different than mine was in that you already know about the affair, and your wife has moved out. However, in many ways, they are actually quite similar. Like my husband, your wife isn't making any decisions... As long as you're still there for her---as is her affair partner---she really has no reason to make a decision, does she? You've done everything you can think of to make her happy (even helped her move into her apartment <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ), you've told her what you'll do to change if she comes back, and made it abundantly clear to her that you want her to come back.

Okay, now it's time for you to let her face her REALITY. Leave her alone! Let her have a taste of what her life will be like without you in it!!!! DO PLAN B! (I had no idea that I was doing any "Plans" when I was going through my ordeal since I hadn't found any message boards or read any books---you're very fortunate to have Cerri and the others here to help you.) But, I am living proof that wandering spouses only seem able to make a decision about what they want (and at this point, it seems to be all about what *they* want) when faced with the REALITY of what their life will be like without their spouse/family. I'd be willing to bet that she will eventually decide she wants to come home and try to work on the marriage after she's experienced life without you being there for her, and seeing what she's doing to your kids (and your kids will survive all this, trust me). But you have to let her experience it if you really want her back.

As for me...my husband has MAJOR regrets that he ever even MET the other woman (and at one point, he actually thought he wanted to marry her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). Our marriage is now stronger than ever. We don't take each other for granted as we once did. When we have problems, we talk about them, and work out a compromise. We know each other's needs because we TELL each other what they are, and we both make a real effort to meet the other's needs. Your marriage can survive this "valley" and be better than ever, too. But, first, you have to let Mrs. WMWB realize that this is what she wants. Give her some time...time WITHOUT contact with you. Make her miss you! Make her want you! The only way you can do that, is to stay away from her for a while. I did it, so can you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have a question. Where was the OM during her move? Why wasn't he helping her?

SAB

Well, she was going to have one of OM's friends help her, but I told her if he put one foot on my property I'd shoot him dead in the street. Ok, maybe that was a bit if an LB too... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .

I helped WW move a dresser over to her place. She wouldn't let me in though, still hasn't. She told me to unload it and leave it on the sidewalk, then told me to leave. No sooner did I get home did I hear the OM leave his house. I drove by WW's place about 2 hours later on the way to pick up dinner and the dresser was no longer on the sidewalk. I'm guessing that OM moved it up to her apt.

My main goal was to leave her with one last good imppession of me. I'm not about to flip-flop between plans. As of now, we are in plan B.

HOORAY! Finally....

Honney,

That must have been tough to Plan B your H while he was still there in the same house. How did you manage?

Mike,

I understand your frustration with me. And, i understand you wanting to be done with me and this situation. I really appreciate your input and advice, and I know you think I only gave lip service to it. Trust me, you guys have had more of an impact on me and my decisions than you know.

I am taking this very seriously, I satrted plan B II today and WILL stick to it. I will need some help sticking to it. Nobody swings a meaner 2x4 than the infamously subtle and sensitive MikeC2.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> .

I'm asking, please stick with me here, I won't let you down again. Promise.

Cerri, the same applies to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have very minimal time here today - in fact I'm late for the daily b-ball pick up so all I have time to say is the WH still does a considerable amount of counselling. You can't hire him, but he does an incredible amount of day to day work with couples in crisis. And has done so since many of us were young enough to think the opposite sex had cooties. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C

WMWB,

Look, if you aren't going to utilize this knowledge, it isn't going to do anything for you. If my car is broke down and I read 100 books on mechanics, my car will still be broke down at the end of my reading. It is putting it into practice that counts.

You are putting the advice you get from all aspects through a filter and deciding on your actions based upon your own judgment. I don't see how that's much different from what you were doing that got your marriage here in the first place. I really have yet to see someone fully recover their marriage on that approach.

So, when you decide what advice to act upon and what to ignore, you'd better be so sure that you'd bet your marriage on it - BECAUSE YOU ARE.

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

<small>[ November 04, 2003, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Honney ]</small>

You can't do Plan B while in the same house. Plan B is defined by no contact. Plan B is "You don't see them, you don't talk to them," (W. H.) Detachment (withdrawal) yes, certainly you can do, but it's not Plan B, it's a Taker's strategy to protect you from further pain. And it's generally not something I (or Dr. Harley) would reccomend.

Don't take my word for it, call Dr. Harley, Mondays and Thursdays 1pm CT 888.332.5169

Hi there,

I'd like to offer just one tiny bit of insight. WMWB wrote...

"...disrespectful judgements and selfish demands in a humorus way. I was joking around and giving her a hard time, only she didn't think it was at all funny."

When you're feeling resentful it's often a temptation to say something that shows it but try to pass it off as a joke. It NEVER works. The other person knows perfectly well what lies behind it.

On the other hand actions speak louder than words and you did help her out a bit.

So you're now in Plan B, yes? Is that your absolutely final, final decision?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cerri:
<strong> You can't do Plan B while in the same house. Plan B is defined by no contact. Plan B is "You don't see them, you don't talk to them," (W. H.) Detachment (withdrawal) yes, certainly you can do, but it's not Plan B, it's a Taker's strategy to protect you from further pain. And it's generally not something I (or Dr. Harley) would reccomend.

Don't take my word for it, call Dr. Harley, Mondays and Thursdays 1pm CT 888.332.5169 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cerri, I don't know whether you read my previous posts... My husband's affair happened 5 years ago, and we are still together---still going strong! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> At the time of his affair, when I was going through what WMWB is going through now, I didn't have access to the internet and didn't have a clue what books to read to help me through what was the worst time of my life. I basically just did what I felt I needed to do to survive. Apparently, I mis-spoke when I referred to what I did as Plan B. Sorry about that. My reason for posting was only to share with WMWB a success story...and to let him know that it took my pulling away from my husband to wake him from the fog and to, in effect, force him to make a decision. Again, I apologize for referring to what I did as Plan B in my post.

Well, for all who question, YES we are now in plan B. 100%, full blown, to the hilt plan B. The kind of plan B that would almost make Cerri proud of me. I'm still working on an intermediary, my first two choices turned me down. They said they didn't want to get in the middle of this. Go figure. But, I have had no contact with the WW, I picked up the kids and stood in the hall of her apt., she called for the kids and I gave the phone to my son and hung it up when the kids were done. I could hear her getting angry about the new boundaries, both when I picked up the kids and when I hung up the phone.

She did mention that she was going to transfer the phone over to her apt., it is in her name only. I said that was fine, since she made an enormous amount of long distance calls before she left, she could have tha balance on the account as well. That was all I said.

I am very commited to plan B, a whole new resolve to do this right. I know what advice to follow and am following it to the best of my ability.