I've heard it MANY times that from a BS perspective it SEEMS like the WS is getting just what they want. More is going on there than you realize. The WS even thinks that they now have what they want...until things STILL don't feel right or good. It's a PROCESS. Give it time. The holidays, while horribly hard on you, are a PERFECT time for her to feel the consequences that seperation bring. Just ride it out...

WMWB,

My 6th grade teacher was known for corporal punishment. Had three yardsticks wrapped together, with the label "Killer" on it. He also had a nice 1x4 lacquered paddle that had holes drilled in it for maximum compression/concussion effect (on his desk).

Consider that Killer is coming out after a long recess!!

Plan A and B are for YOU. Plan A is a preparation for Plan B. Plan B is not for going around, acting sulky, depressed, manipulative, or punative. It's designed to demonstrate that you are fully capable of getting on with your life - to you and to your WW. In other words, demonstrate just exactly what she's losing AT YOUR BEST!!!! You want to be ready to welcome her back, only on YOUR terms because you so do not need her back in your life any way you can get her.

Tell me, how attractive is a drunk who uses sleeping pills and booze to anesthatize himself from all this pain? Man, you are showing her here and in real life how NOT OVER HER you are. How self-sufficient at handling your life on life's terms without her there telling you how unworthy you are of respect and fidelity and commitment? Because that's exactly what her attitude has been, with occasional and momentary fog clearing.

Plan B is to help you get your head on straight and to be a ROCK!

WHACK! Killer has spoken!

Well "Killer", let me tell you something...

1) First off, I was kidding about the booze and sleeping pills. Can you say...SARCASM...??? I do take sleeping pills, but only because I wouldn't sleep a wink with out them...trust me, I just tried the other night. However, i don't drink...much. We are talking about 2 or 3 beers a week. Certainly not a whole bottle of whisky.

2) I think I fully understand the idea behind plan A and B. Now, anybody here can tell that I have a major disability when it comes to executing plan B...but I do think I understand it.

3) Finally, and understand this in no uncertain terms, I AM NOT OVER THIS WOMAN. I love her more and more each day. The longer I'm away from her the more I ache. I hoonestly think that the fact that I see her for a few seconds a day is the only reason I'm still reasonably sane at this point. I think about her every minute of every day. From the moment I wake up to the moment I finally drift into sleep...then I only dream about her. If I actually had NO CONTACT with her, I'm positive that I would suffer from a horribly poetic death the likes of which Shakespere could never have imagined. Does this sound increadibly sappy and clingy??? Probably, but it isn't like that. I love her, but I'm not obsessed with her. She has her life and I have mine. Could I go on living without her, sure. Would I be happy, probably. But I'd be much happier with her, that I'm sure....not the "her" of the last couple of months...but the "her" I fell in love with and married. It isn't like my life is hinging on her return, not at all. But I'm not over her, not in the least. I love her.

Look, I appreciate getting knocked around and set straight by folks on the outside looking in. For that I say thank you. But dude, get a grip here. I'm really not going to go into a drunken stuper. I'm not really sulking my way through life wishing for her return. I am getting on with things, adjusting to life as it is for now. But I'm not over her, will not be for a long, long time. I married her because I love her and wanted to make her the happiest wife on earth. I failed misserably at that. Our 5 years together were an absolute recipe for disaster. I just want another chance, for now I feel as though I have the tools and resources to do it right. That's all I'm asking. I understand she is an addict, and I have to wait for her to get through that part of our ordeal. I'm willing to do that, it's tough but I'm doing all I can.

Anyhow, now that I've completely obliterated any shread of my masculinity, I'll end this little tirade. Thanks for the input, I do appreciate it. Just felt like I had to set some stuff straight. Sorry.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Want My Wife Back:
<strong> 3) Finally, and understand this in no uncertain terms, I AM NOT OVER THIS WOMAN. I love her more and more each day. The longer I'm away from her the more I ache. I hoonestly think that the fact that I see her for a few seconds a day is the only reason I'm still reasonably sane at this point. I think about her every minute of every day. From the moment I wake up to the moment I finally drift into sleep...then I only dream about her. If I actually had NO CONTACT with her, I'm positive that I would suffer from a horribly poetic death the likes of which Shakespere could never have imagined. Does this sound increadibly sappy and clingy??? Probably, but it isn't like that. I love her, but I'm not obsessed with her. She has her life and I have mine. Could I go on living without her, sure. Would I be happy, probably. But I'd be much happier with her, that I'm sure....not the "her" of the last couple of months...but the "her" I fell in love with and married. It isn't like my life is hinging on her return, not at all. But I'm not over her, not in the least. I love her.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know what? Sarcasm doesn't drip from your typed words very well. I've read this entire thread too, so it's not something I would consider "far fetched".

Self awareness is great. But wearing your heart on your sleeve is trouble for Plan B.

I would recommend you have a conversation with Mortar Man over on General Questions. He was as devoted to his wife, and making similar Plan B mistakes. He got the hang of it though, and his wife is back home. A is over. She's struggling, but is committed to working on the issues she needs to work on. And she truly can see that MM is a changed man. It took a loooooonnnnnnnnnnggggggg time for him to pull this off. He crossed the anniversary line too. So I'm going to run up a flag over there and see if he'll pay you a visit.

BTW, Since you wanted me to notice you were being sarcastic, I plead equal time on the mind reading stuff. I hope you can detect a little tongue in cheek attempt at a humorous style wake-up call! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

So noted... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks for the advice. I didn't mean to come of so harsh. My apologies. And, thanks for the tip about Mortar Man. I'll have to give him a shout. I am having a really hard time with plan B, any help i can get is welcome.

Thanks again.

WMWB,

I'm going to second the motion for you to make a visit over on GQII to mortarman....aside from cerri....he's the best Plan B source on the board and I highly recommend him. He has a way of getting through and helping folks cope with Plan B as well as anyone I know around here. I know you're struggling and I also know you're hurting....but it does take time....and consistent no contact for this plan to bear fruit. Good luck and don't give up.

WMWB,

I read your entire thread yesterday, and I just wanted to say that my heart aches for you and what you are going through. I think your WW is very foolish and if she doesn't snap out of it soon, she may lose a very intelligent, loving and devoted husband, and a dedicated father who still manages to maintain a witty sense of humour throughout this turmoil. I think she's the one that needs to encounter that 2X4!!

Keep up the good work. You deserve happiness.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think your WW is very foolish and if she doesn't snap out of it soon, she may lose a very intelligent, loving and devoted husband, and a dedicated father who still manages to maintain a witty sense of humour throughout this turmoil. I think she's the one that needs to encounter that 2X4!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FINALLY!!!!! Someone who sees this the way I do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />


Seriously Jilliana, thank you very much for the kind words. I appreciate it more than you could know. It's nice to hear that I'm not the only one who believs in what I'm doing or that it isn't all for nothing. Thanks again for the support and kind words.

HUGE DEVELOPEMENT!!!!!...well it was too me anyway.

WW has found, and is currently moving into, an apartment here in town.

Ok, that was the major news of the day in the WMWB household. I know I should have been expecting it. It is the logical next step for her. Probably a very good developement for me, more reality, isolation, time for OM to screw up, ect. However, I didn't at all expect my reaction to be what it was. The second I was told, my stomach did a back flip. I literally felt ill and could feel both my blood pressure and my heartrate spike upward and stay there.

How should I be handling this? I know not to say anything to her, and I know there is nothing I can do about it. But dealing with this is very hard. Ok, I know you guys listen to me whine about every little detail, I appreciate it. It must seem at times that I blow everything out of proportion and that I'm some little panic ridden baby. Not the case in "real life", I promise you that! I guess what I'm looking for here is for someone to reassure me that this is a good thing. Anybody, please.

Alright then, I know what the next question is, how did I find out? Well she called from her cell phone to say good night to the kids and when our youngest was done talking he handed me the phone. As I was going to press the off button, I could here her yelling for me to talk. She then told me she needs to alter our plans with the kids this weekend a little. She then told me she found a place and was moving in this weekend. She sounded so happy and excited. It just tore me apart inside. Then I could hear someone coughing in the background. I asked who it was. It was OM's daughter, WW was watching her while OM was at vollyball (now vollyball is dead to me...). I told her that I wished she would have told me sooner, as I was going to be putting the house on the market soon and would be looking for a place closer to our parents. She got instantly cold and said: "To each his own then." She has know that was my intention for a while, but I'm sure she didn't know that I'm in contact with a realtor and have started the pre-qualifying process.

I have to think that logically this is a good thing, but it sure doesn't feel like it. Now she is going to be 2 miles from our home and still make the decision to not be with our family. For some reason it was easier when she was 55 miles away.

This sucks. Reasurance needed here. Thank you.

Mike, are you still around??? Looking for your input (i.e.: your 2x4)

<small>[ October 30, 2003, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]</small>

You say nothing, do nothing and completely ignore her and the situation.

I have to be out later today and have some things I need to have ready to take with me, so I may not check back, but those are your marching orders. We can talk theory, concepts and feelings later. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hey..... waiiiiiit a minute.... How exactly did you hear this news.... <ahem> ?????

C

And how is finding that intermediary going????

What specifically have you done in the last 2 days to find someone to act as go between?

And if you don't have one, what specific actions are you going to take RIGHT NOW to find one?

This is not a "maybe it's a good idea" option. This is crucial to your success. If you had an intermediary you could have hit the off button no matter what she was screeching and she would have had to go through this person in order to change plans, get the news to you, whatever.

Get it done.

(I'm feeling a bit bossy today - does it show??)


C

I'm looking for here is for someone to reassure me that this is a good thing. Anybody, please.

I think your W moving to her own place is a great development! She's not moving in with the OM. She's creating physical distance between them. Now you can really put Plan B into effect as soon as you get your intermediary for the boys. As for you selling the house, good for you! This shows her you are moving (sorry for the pun) on with your life. Ignore everything she says . It's fogtalk anyway.

It's time to focus on you. Pretend like she doesn't exist or just an acquaintance. You were happy before she came into your life. You can be happy now. Focus on what makes you happy personally right here and now.

<small>[ October 31, 2003, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>

Hey guys. I may have screwed up this morning. I dropped the kids off and before I left....I gave her a big hug. When I tried to pull away she hugged tighter. She asked how I was doing, I said fine (we were both in tears) and asked how she was doing. She said she's been better. I asked her how she was going to afford this. She said she was going on public assistance and WIC. The MN workforce was helping her to get re-certified to teach pre-school again. It seems like the "system" is encouraging and making this easier for her. Then she told me she had a "moment of weakness" the other day and was thinking that maybe she should come back home. But then she thought better of it. We spent the next ten minutes crying and going back and forth about why she left and how things would be different if she came home. She wouldn't budge and only became more entrenched in her position, so I left for work.

She keeps telling me that nothing physical is going on with OM, perhaps I'm naieve but I believe her. She also keeps saying that she thinks I'm just being cruel and mean to her with the plan B stuff. It isn't good for the kids to have us ignoring each other like this she says. It seems like the stuff I've done during plan B is the stuff she is holding against me at this point. This is the stuff she is holding up and saying "why would I want to be with you?"

The questions I have are: If she thought I didn't pay enough attention to her before, how is ignoring her now a good idea? She said this morning that she doesn't want to come back and find that nothing is different, then have to leave again. She doesn't believe that things will be any better. I told her that even if she did have to leave again, at least we gave it another chance.

I'm thinking of offering her a deal. If she comes back for 1 year and agrees to the terms (n/c with OM, we move, solid commitment to recovery), and we give it our 100%...if after that year she feels like this is worth saving we renew our vows and start over (honeymoon and all). If she still feels like she wants out and we are no good for each other, fine...I'll leave and her and the kids can stay in the house. Is that anything i should even be thinking of doing? I know, it isn't. But would it be all that bad of an idea? It sounds like she is wavering and wanting to come home. When she talked about leaving the house and our kids she cried harder than anything. I think she really wants to come home but is afraid that we will still fail and she'll be right in this spot again. She has expressed this many, many times.

Cerri, <bowing my head in shame> I've done nothing so far to secure an intermediary. I'm fully expecting to have my hand slapped and to go stand in the corner now.

<small>[ October 31, 2003, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]</small>

So what you are telling me is that in spite of all the warnings about what will happen to your kids if you fail (and you are on the fast track to doing that) and all the explanations from someone who has been on both sides of this issue (me), and someone who sees this day in and day out with more couples than I care to think about (it makes me cry) you are still doing things that are endangering the work of saving your marrige BECAUSE IT FEELS RIGHT????

Is there some part of "the things it takes to save a marriage especially during infidelity are all counter intuitive" that you are not getting??

Come to me when you're really ready to take this seriously.

C - as in really Cranky today.

Sooo....the deal....the deal is a bad idea...???

I think I knew that. I knwo these thing are counter intuitive. They all feel wrong. Hugging her felt really right. It felt good. I miss her.

I'm sorry that I'm this weak. I am trying to be stronger.

I suppose I shouldn't get her flowers for her new place then, huh?....just kidding Cerri.


Hey, it is fine with me if you are bossy and crabby today, go for it. I myself am feeling a bit sappy and depressed. Nothing anybody is going to say is going to change that. So, I say, have at it!

ya what she said ..LOL figured it was time to give it back to you WMWB

Cerri not that I have any room to talk .. but I did give it to him already also .. via email.

Question: WMWB....how old are you?

wmmb -

Its a free country, but I'm a little confused as to why you continue to post here. You consistently ignore the advice of cerri and others here who are well versed wtih MB principles. In fact, you yourself seem to have serious reservations as to their validity. If you just want to vent, that's fine, but its frustrating and probably even a little insulting to the people who invest time, thought, and energy in trying to help you to see you ignore everything they say.

Perhaps you might be better served by finding another avenue to get help, where you believe more strongly in and are more willing to follow the principles. It seems to me that right now you're all over the place and have no strategy at all as to how to save your marriage, and I can't imagine that will work for you. Personally, I believe the MB stratgey is the best chance you have, but failing that at least some kind of consistent plan has got to be better than what you have right now. Venting here can certainly be a relief and I don't think anybody really minds you doing it, but I don't think that you're getting anything productive out of it.

Neither I nor anyone else, I believe, wants to see you leave the site. But I do feel bad for you because you're not getting anywhere by posting here and then going your own way. I hope this doesn't come across as mean or harsh, I just feel that you need to make a change in your approach, a big change and soon.

Hey Mike

Nice to have you back, hope I wasn't to big of an a-hole to you in earlier posts. I was just giving you a hard time.

I am 27, WW is 26. If you do the math, we married at 24 and 23 respectively...met at 22 and 21.

Why?

Ouch...

Ok, your saying it's time to fish or cut bait then huh? I see, and for what it is worth I agree. I have momentary lapses in strength, but I do have a plan. I'm just emotionally challanged in executing it. I also believe the MB principles are the best chance I have to save this. But this is really tough.

Sorry, no excuses from me. I suck at this, but I am trying...despite the outward appearances of it.

Thanks for the jolt, i do appreciate it.