I travel worldwide for business and my wife and I had always had a schedule/plan during these trips of calling one another to avoid the problem of time differences globally. Approximately six weeks ago I noticed that arranged contact times would be missed quite often and when I would telephone either she was out of the office or her cell phone/house phone would go answered. I did mention it however it was effectively explained away to my satisfaction, although still did find a somewhat odd as it was never a problem in the last twelve years.

About a month ago our outside consultants and IT recommended implementing new security measures because of recent worm attacks which included more aggressive monitoring of employee activities, seems they/we are an open door for allowing them inside. I was given a couple of samples of software to review over that weekend. To expedite I decided to install it on the home computers and our family laptops.

Needless to go into all the gory details however the emails the software sent to my accounts were heartbreaking, disgusting and finally infuriating. My wife is having an affair and she seems to believe that I am in the dark (as she so kindly put it in one of her emails). This twit she is seeing is married (I placed a PI on her soon after to confirm (two weeks ago), I was hoping it was a sick joke) and has a couple of children and is employed by one of my vendors. We have a couple of mutual friends as our business is a closed knit group, there also have been a few parties where he was most likely present. I can only imagine how much enjoyment they received at my ignorance.

I honestly cannot understand how this happened and who the hell does she think she is to place our entire family, futures and lives in jeopardy. We have two children and she places her lack of character above them, it seems I misjudged her as at one time I believed she was the one person who I could trust and love. I have made every effort to be a fine husband and provider which I believe I had accomplished. I honestly feel that I have always been there for her and always shown her the love I thought she deserved.

Wednesday October 8th is a dinner that we must attend and she fully understands its importance. I have decided to use it as a crucible to confront this situation and reveal what is in her mind. The twit (OM) is going to lose his job that afternoon and his wife and kids are out of town as of Tuesday as well. My “wife’s” actions will determine what happens afterward. If she excuses herself from this dinner I shall proceed with my attorney’s advice with have her presented with the photos and legal documents wherever she goes with him. It is all he’ll let me do, seems creating a bonfire with her clothing is not looked upon well by a judge. However screwing around with a no future twit has no relevance, if she had only said she wanted out it would be different. I honestly see only a lying worthless whore when I look upon her, I never thought I would use that word in reference to her.

I am sorry however Plan A does not appear to be a valid option and Plan B my attorney has strongly counseled against. Thus this appears to the path that she has placed our family.

It is getting quite late here and she just walked in to the office room and asked why I was up so late. I’m amazed I was able to control myself.

Thanks for listening....

Cube you are going to feel and endless array of feelings over the next few weeks. And should you both decide to work on the marriage countless more feelings over the next year or more.

But what you think you feel, what you think you would do in theory may prove to be completely different once in reality.

Affairs most of the time are wakeup signs that either a marriage or one of the spouses is in trouble.

Clearly since he is married too odds are she is not looking to leave you....at least she hasn't thought of it in terms of leaving for him. Clearly she hasn't thought of the consequences should she be caught.

There my be something missing in her life or your marriage that can with therapy and a willingness to make changes that in the long run will make your marriage stronger and more fulfilling for the both of you.

Right now you will too angry to even consider the above notion. But think EVERYTHING thru before you take any action that cannot be reversed.

Good luck this is a very painful discovery but by discovering odds are their affair will end.

Dear Cube

It is very natural for the BS (Betrayed Spouse) to feel that the Affair (A) is a sign of contempt from the WS to them. This is rarely the case.

The WS is more often then not a person unhappy with themselves and their life. Then an opportunity opens with an OP (Other Person) offering respect, love, excitement and affection. And it becomes so tempting to just have a little taste of the cake. And then one more..

If you are a driver you have had moments were you did take a chance in the traffic. You did this even though you had kids and wife in the car. You had no intention of risking their lives. You felt you had full control. And hopefully it went well. But if you are honest with yourself you know that you put your dearest ones at risk. And you did that for very little in return.

Most WS are like this. They have no intention to hurt their BS or damage the M (Marriage). They are giving in to a temptation to have their needs met, to feel good, to be respected and "worshiped". "Just a little taste of this, and then I will return to my S. He/she will never know. It won’t harm nobody." And then the game takes control: Lies leads to new lies. The OP is told how terrible the S is. And the BS is given lies about what is happening. And also there is the "fog". Fog is MB terminology for a confused mindset that leads the WS to do and say things they would never do if they were sane. Yes indeed, they are temporarily insane!

So do not demonise your W. She is caught in a web of her own foolish choices. But she is not a bad person. You will not believe this, but she may even still love you very much! (This kind of internal conflict is typical fog. Fog is insanity !!! Some posters call this an alien mindset.)
Do not let your pain influence you to make actions, hurtful words or major decisions that you will later regret. Your M can probably be saved, and your love and happyness can still return.

So don't use a sledge now. You can always Divorce later. Show yourself now as a loving husband determined to save your M. You may have to force yourself to do this. But it will pay off!

Good luck! God bless your efforts!

<small>[ October 07, 2003, 03:49 AM: Message edited by: Frank57 ]</small>

Dear cube!

I forgot to mention there are lots of good literature out there to help you in this situation.
Here at the MB site you can buy <Surviving an affair>
Also <Thorn asunder> is recommended by many posters.

Buy these two books and read them together. Read one chapter a day. This is a good way to work through this. Both you and your W will feel much pain in the coming weeks. Communication can be difficult. Reading these books together can remove barriers, and help you express feelings and thoughts. And you will recognise what is happening to you. Both of you are in for an emotional roller coaster, there are phases in grief and recovery you will have to work through. And it will help to know this in advance. Otherwise you may despair.

SC: Be prepared for the hardest fight you will ever have - the fight for your marriage and family. You have some disadvantages: too much time apart because of your travel, and your emotions will often tell you to do the exact opposite of what is needed. You need some tools to help you survive. You have come to the right place. Harley's stuff on affairs is the best in the world. I have tried to assemble references to the best tools for this battle in the link in my signature line, including some that are not by Willard Harley, but complement his work. Read and learn.

Your attorney does not have the interests of your marriage in mind when he offers you his advice. He has your legal and financial interests in mind. These are not the same. Plan B does present some legal problems, but nothing that cannot be worked around - if you are willing to be creative.

You may not believe this, but you can get over the feelings of contempt you have for your wife...but she will have to earn that, and that takes time, and she is unlikely to start down that road right away, so don't expect it. Give yourself some time (I'm talking months, here) to calm down. You and your children will be much better off if you can restore your marriage with their mother than any of the possible alternatives. That may not look possible right now, but Harley's methods work far more often than they fail.

And please, try to understand her. I see no evidence of that so far in your posts, and suspect that that is one fo the reasons she is having an affair. This is not to excuse her behavior, but if you do not listen and learn, you will find yourself in the same situation some years down the line with your next wife.

<small>[ October 07, 2003, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Thanks for your points Stunned-Dad

Stunned Dad said -

"But what you think you feel, what you think you would do in theory may prove to be completely different once in reality."

Quite possibly the case as I am posting here on this forum, although I fully intend to proceed with the termination of the OM (the director of the company that he is employed is both an old friend and we are his most important client. This OM’s performance was sub par to begin with it judging by the speed of the response I received to my request and how easily I was informed it could handled). My friend only asked once why, my response was simply that it was personal (no, I do not believe this friend was aware of the affair).

By undertaking this action the crucible shall occur whether I want to stop it or not. The WW and OM are completely unaware that tomorrow is special, thus the reactions I think will reveal more than words could accomplish. Although I cannot imagine why/how I could ever believe she would be worth it after this, I keep returning to the thought that this is not the person I married and loved. Perhaps that person either no longer exists or never did.

"Affairs most of the time are wakeup signs that either a marriage or one of the spouses is in trouble."

Unfortunately there has been the absence of any indicators to this, I would have noticed. Well I do recall an oddness in her voice from time to time, I had assumed it was an issue with the family who are “special” (doesn’t quite mean what you might think) but otherwise our life is the perfect picture. I always was very involved in her life and the children’s’, went out for dinner, travels etc et al.

"Clearly since he is married too odds are she is not looking to leave you....at least she hasn't thought of it in terms of leaving for him. Clearly she hasn't thought of the consequences should she be caught."

Honestly, I do know if this is the case. However by her actions I will decide if I want to continue being with her. This is not going to be her decision whether I remain with her, I have read many times where a BS has allowed a WS to “decide”. That is not going to happen in this case. She has the power to leave, however I have the power to also proceed with divorce regardless of whatever her decisions may or may not be.

"Right now you will too angry to even consider the above notion. But think EVERYTHING thru before you take any action that cannot be reversed."

The worst part of this is I am past anger, which was my first or second emotion. I feel myself detaching my emotions and methodically preparing contingency and battle plans.

Hello Frank, you make some valid points as well.

Frank 57 said -

"If you are a driver you have had moments were you did take a chance in the traffic. You did this even though you had kids and wife in the car. You had no intention of risking their lives. You felt you had full control. And hopefully it went well. But if you are honest with yourself you know that you put your dearest ones at risk. And you did that for very little in return."

An interesting point, however you are speaking about a momentary lack of judgment (although I cannot recall doing anything with such as your example). An affair by its definition is a series of judgments and decisions. She decided to undertake this affair. She decided to place this family in danger of collapse. She decided to place our health at risk (as BryanP often mentions). She decided to lie, deceive and humiliate me by these actions.

"So do not demonise your W. She is caught in a web of her own foolish choices. But she is not a bad person. You will not believe this, but she may even still love you very much!"

If one were to judge by her behavior with me I would agree, however her conduct otherwise clearly indicates differently.

"So don't use a sledge now. You can always Divorce later. Show yourself now as a loving husband determined to save your M. You may have to force yourself to do this. But it will pay off!"

Sage advice, however the question that returns to me is why is she worth it? If not for the children I would be moving aggressively and more decisively to extricate myself. They are a factor that complicates this beyond logic and one that I cannot detach emotionally from.

"I forgot to mention there are lots of good literature out there to help you in this situation.
Here at the MB site you can buy <Surviving an affair>
Also <Thorn asunder> is recommended by many posters"

I shall consider it, although I currently doubt the answers I am seeking can be found in a book.

Hello John, thanks for your posting

John39 said -

"Your attorney does not have the interests of your marriage in mind when he offers you his advice. He has your legal and financial interests in mind. These are not the same. Plan B does present some legal problems, but nothing that cannot be worked around - if you are willing to be creative."

This very true, however I do not believe it shall come down to a plan B scenario. I very much suspect that he will call her tomorrow evening (remember his wife is out of town with the kids) as he will be shocked that the days events. After that I am not certain either she will excuse herself from the dinner engagement or she shall not. If she excuses herself the PI/courier follow her to wherever. I will excuse myself sometime later and telephone the PI who by this time should be outside of somewhere (I assume his condo) and he will knock on the door and provide a letter from me and photos as well a document of intention to sue for divorce.

I have already arranged for the children to be at my parents home that evening under the guise that this meeting may go late. Thus will not be required to witness the drama unfold.

"You may not believe this, but you can get over the feelings of contempt you have for your wife...but she will have to earn that, and that takes time"

Contempt, humiliation and concern are just about all I feel now, I ask myself where is the love and I find it in very limited quantities now.

"And please, try to understand her. I see no evidence of that so far in your posts, and suspect that that is one fo the reasons she is having an affair"

I have already spent the better part of a month on this very point. Her motivations continue to elude me.

Your situation is eerily similar to mine (wife had affair with married client - two kids pregnant wife).

If you'd like to discuss further (I got divorced), please e-mail me offline at nomasesq@yahoo.com

I should probably be more sympathetic, because I was a clueless as you are now when I found out about my wife's affair. She had said to me, our friends and family and the OM that we had a good marriage and I was the "Greatest Husband in the World". Reading "Survivng an Affair" opened BOTH our eyes to just how bad our marriage was, and the only surprising thing, given how our marriage was structured, how our lives worked, and how we treated each other, was that I hadn't had an affair, too.

But I'm not gonna be nice, because I think you need a wake-up call - the kind delivered by a 2x4 to the head. What follows is the written equivalent, I hope, for your sake, as well as the kids. Frankly, I doubt it will do much good, because I see very little evidence of you having an open mind other than the fact that you are actually here, adn you seemed to have missed teh rather obvious point that Plan A is supposed to precede Plan B - if you actually want it to work. Of course, maybe you don't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I currently doubt the answers I am seeking can be found in a book. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What answers are you seeking? How to destroy your childrens family... or how to save it? If it's the first, then your plan is perfect. If she goes to him, she doesn't care about you. If she stays with you, then it's probably just for your money, since he is losing his, and you prove she is a "whore". If it's the second, maybe you should reconsider the book idea - both are excellent. I got about 60% of the answer to the "Why?" question by reading SAA, and about 30% from reading TA.

You know what else? By the time we finished reading SAA our marriage was already better than it had ever been before. EVER. ( -I- was still a mess... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) And my extended family noticed positive changes in our kids within a couple of months.

However, whether you read or not, I can tell you from your posts why she is having an affair - I see by your words and your planned actions that you are judgemental, controlling, manipulative, spiteful, unethical, you do not care about your children's interests and you don't listen. I know by experience whereof I speak, and your controlling and judgemental words, attitudes and actions have killed any love that she had for you. If how this could have happened is not immediately obvious to you, reading "If Only He Knew", by Smalley and "The State of Affairs" by Mulliken (see the "Lonely Woman" section), with an open mind should begin to open your eyes. You have acted in a way that has guaranteed your wife would be tempted to have an affair. You are a bright guy, you should be able to figure out what exactly she was getting from the OM that you should have been providing (starting with "time"). No? Try reading "Surving an Affair" by Harley. As I noted above, it helped us. Then you open your mind some more and read "The Five Love Languages" by Chapman, so you will begin to understand, if you let yourself, that not everyone understands love the way you do.

Finally, and I probably shouldn't say this, but I'm REALLY pissed: Why do you set up a situation where how well you or he can provide for her may be a deciding factor, when you say "whore" like it is a perjorative term? If that is the only reason you can find for her to stay with you, then maybe the reason she has acted like a whore is because you made her feel like one!!! If you think financial support is the only thing a woman needs, then all you will ever date or marry is whores or their slightly more refined equivalent.

<small>[ October 07, 2003, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Did you love your wife before her A?
Do you love her now?

--- you seem to be so cold <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Silence Cubed,

I have been reading this thread with interest. I would guess, that you are living out every betrayed spouses fantasy.

Wipe out the OP, financially, and with his family.

Then wipe out the wayward spouse, financially, emotionally, and with family.

Revenge is sweet, and I know you are going to want to see their faces when your PI hands her your envelop.

But, my friend I think there is a fatal flaw in your logic. There is no denying the satisfaction you will get from executing your plan. There no denying the satisfaction you will get from your W's misery, if in fact she is repentant about what she has done. But the flaw in your logic is evident in what you said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sage advice, however the question that returns to me is why is she worth it? If not for the children I would be moving aggressively and more decisively to extricate myself. They are a factor that complicates this beyond logic and one that I cannot detach emotionally from.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This type of situation is NOT ABOUT LOGIC. At least not logic as you and I are using the term. That is why there is a term here that is often used for a WS, THE FOG. It means quite simply what ever logic they ARE using bares no resemblence to the logic you, I, others here, and even your W would normally use. It has been suggested although with tongue in cheek, is what you are witnessing is an alien brain abduction.

You are probably going to finally realize that her affair is NOT about you, it wasn't directed at you, and that is why it was kept secret. It was about her seeking to fill some hole in her soul. It was about her feeling that you didn't love her anymore. There are many reasons, but no excuses. However, I would bet you a lot of money that she did not set out to humiliate you, even hurt you (why else keep it a secret), or even to leave. She did however want her cake and eat it too.

You have heard from several veterans of the affair wars. Most have successfully come out of the other end with better marriages.

I would strongly encourage you to suspend your judgement of logic, and accept that she is human and flawed. Let her talk to you, let her decide if she wants to TRY and rebuild the marriage. As you point out, you can decide to leave anytime. But, she has only NOW to prove that she sees the error of her ways and that she will become the woman you love.

SC, she will need time. You don't have to kiss her A$$, but you should give this time to see what happens. IF OM is the love of her life, then you apparently stand well situated to let him have her. If he is NOT, then you also stand well situated to see what rebuilding a marriage is like. I can assure you of one thing. If you divorce her, your children will suffer, and suffer mightily. My strong recommendation is that you do all you can to rebuild this marriage so that if it does come apart, you can look them in the eyes and tell them honestly that you gave your W a chance. You did your best.

It seems to me you have handled discovery very well, in terms of setting up the divorce. You have the evidence, you have OM on the street. You have done it exceedingly well. BUT, quiting is always the easy part, and that is what you are doing.

You haven't had the honesty to tell your W what you know, nor to allow her to at least decide to try and stay or go. If she decides to go, you have your evidence, you will be able to look the children, the relatives in the eye and know you gave her the chance. Otherwise, it will actually be you the broke up the marriage not her. As you can see from here marriages can be rebuilt and you won't have given it a chance.

So think carefully about your next steps. ALL of the options lay before you, and actually they will continue to except reconcilliation if you do what you plan to do: divorce her on the spot. A wise and prudent man, leaves as many options open as possible, until a decisions is REQUIRED. You are not in that position yet.

Please consider what everyone is telling you. It is not to forget about divorce, but rather to give this some time before you start slamming doors closed and locking them.

God Bless,

JL

----

<small>[ October 07, 2003, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

SC, with all due respect, WHY are you here?

<small>[ October 07, 2003, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

You are an interesting fellow John….

John39 said -

“But I'm not gonna be nice, because I think you need a wake-up call - the kind delivered by a 2x4 to the head. What follows is the written equivalent, I hope, for your sake, as well as the kids. Frankly, I doubt it will do much good, because I see very little evidence of you having an open mind other than the fact that you are actually here, adn you seemed to have missed teh rather obvious point that Plan A is supposed to precede Plan B - if you actually want it to work. Of course, maybe you don't.”

It appears there may be some difficulty with your reading comprehension skills as where in my previous postings did I indicate that I intended to proceed with a Plan B?

“However, whether you read or not, I can tell you from your posts why she is having an affair - I see by your words and your planned actions that you are judgemental, controlling, manipulative, spiteful, unethical, you do not care about your children's interests and you don't listen. I know by experience whereof I speak, and your controlling and judgemental words, attitudes and actions have killed any love that she had for you.”

Judgmental? Yes. Manipulative? Yes, I am creating an environment to limit the potential damage of this affair and decisively deal with it. Spiteful? No, my actions toward the OM are not made out of spite, I consider him a twit, a nothing and he did not have any obligations to me. I am removing their reasons for contact (it was through the business here they appear to have met for the first time) In regard to the WW, your reading issues or your irritation with my methods appear to have clouded your ability to see the purpose of these actions. Unethical? No, I have never been accused of that in my life. I assume this is in reference to the termination of the OM, my actions were hardly unethical. “I do not care about my children” I assume that was intended to cause a reaction. Ok, you wanted a swipe here you go, I doubted even you can make that foolish/ignorant/moronic (should I continue with the swipes or does it satisfactorily reach the quota?) statement.

I’ll agree with you however on the death of love, something must have caused it or a have seriously misjudged her character.

“Finally, and I probably shouldn't say this, but I'm REALLY pissed: Why do you set up a situation where how well you or he can provide for her may be a deciding factor, when you say "whore" like it is a pejorative term?”

You are jumping to your conclusions of my motivations and purpose. The situation is not designed for monetary purpose it is designed to reveal intentions/emotions and objectives. I have dealt with him in this manner only because I want to see the reality of her emotions/feelings intentions. Please no comparisons to Darth Vader as he chose to involve himself thus he cannot hide behind the shield that would prevent me from doing this to an innocent.

“Whore” is a pejorative term, I doubt anyone could argue with it both in definition and its application. Look it up M-Webster is online now, punch it into google if you like.

“If you think financial support is the only thing a woman needs, then all you will ever date or marry is whores or their slightly more refined equivalent.”

You appear to be jumping to conclusions again. Reread my previous posting with the cliff notes of this posting. Yes, I know I exceeded the swipe quota with that last remark.

Hello Danish

Did you love your wife before her A?
Do you love her now?

--- you seem to be so cold

I apologize for the lack of emotion of the posting, detaching makes it easier to deal with this situation. Would it make you feel better to know that I played Frisbee with my laptop when I received the emails? Amusingly they are really aerodynamic, but not very shock resistant.

Yes, I did love her. I really enjoyed coming home in the evening or from a trip abroad to her, felt I could drop the armor at the door. I honestly don’t know of I love her now.

Tak

Just Learning,

I would like to thank you for your posting, it is very thought provoking. I agree with most of what you have written.

“I have been reading this thread with interest. I would guess, that you are living out every betrayed spouses fantasy.

Wipe out the OP, financially, and with his family.”

The implications to his family give me great pause in my decisions as his wife I assume is equally in the dark and stands to be harmed. I wish there was a solution that did not impact her or her children to the degree this certainly shall….yet more casualties to this affair, sigh.

“Revenge is sweet, and I know you are going to want to see their faces when your PI hands her your envelop.”

No, I don’t want to see her face when it happens. I will have seen enough if she makes an excuse to be with him tomorrow night.

Thanks

S**3 hi,

Sorry for your pain. You seem to be handling this well. I would just pull the letter announcing your intention to divorce from your PI's delivery.

You don't owe her anything at that point so why reveal your plans?

She will find out when you have done it.

Just go no contact on her and lock her out of your home.

Hope all goes well.

<small>[ October 08, 2003, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: olderandwiser ]</small>

SC,

I can see you are in pain. I am pretty much an expert at shutting down when I feel pain, so I know how much you must be hurting.

While I agree with taking the tough love approach, it is not without risk. Say your wife goes to OM to sympathize, or whatever. You will have her served with papers, then you divorce her. Then, somewhere down the road, your feelings emerge again (believe me, they will). You will have missed an opportunity to have the marriage you always wanted, because you decided to hurt her as you have been hurt.

There are others on this forum who may be able to help. 2ofakind, a FWS and BS, comes to mind. I will send him a request to read your post.

You will get hit with a few 2x4's along the way, but most of us here want to help each other, so take it in stride, and you will get some great advice.

Misty

Someone posted earlier about how an affair is not intended to hurt the BS?!?!?!?!? I have read some really surreal things on this site but this takes the cake.

Is this something a BS tells themselves so they can feel good about their decision to stay married?

FWIW I think your tough love approach is the correct way to go. As far as financial matters it's better to be safe than sorry. I know of too many horror stories of BH being financially destroyed by their WS.