filly we all feel stupid when affairs are discovered.

First thing about the denial.....they all deny deny deny and when that doesn't work they minimize it was just a few kisses, it was only that once and so on.

I strongly suggest you tell the other woman's husband.

Better yet you want to see if he will confess then give him the option.

Tell you the truth or you are going to sit down with the other woman's husband and compare notes.

Really want to see what happens then simply tell him you talked to so and so (the OW's husband) is there something you want to tell me about?

Bottom line no one in an affair wants to face reality....for that matter they may not even have a grasp of reality regarding the affair.

My wife thought the affair was a little over a year old. She freaked to realize that it was 2 1/2 years long 20 months physical.

WS's have no grasp of the length and depth of involvement of the affair.

My wife thought she called the other man roughly 5 times or so a week. Well she averaged better than 3 times a day most months not counting weekends and holidays. Even then despite them not having contact after business hours and weekends she would check her voice mail for messages from him and leave him messages nights, weekends and holidays.

And talk about dumb my wife routinely told me she hated sex so I didn't have to worry about her having an affair....she only started saying that when SHE GOT into an affair.

My story: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=009539

I was blindsided by her affair. I knew things weren't the way the should be but they hadn't been since we married 17 years earlier.

But she often bragged about us being different as family members and friends went thru divorce after divorce. One year during the affair her aunt made a Christmas tape collage of all the family get togethers over the years. The running joke out of her aunt, uncle and sister is that I was the only none blood family member for every Christmas...aunt in her third marriage, sister in her third marriage and uncle had ended his third marriage since I have known them.

So it was a shocker...she bragged about our marriage and me as a father (but I did not she stopped saying I was a good husband only a wonderful father and a good provider that took care of her). I knew even without knowing her abuse/rape issues that she hated sex. The OM was a smoker (she hates that both as a person and dental professional. He was a convicted felon with no college and a GED from high school. He was a rumored womanizer. And as her sister said when she found out....he's nothing.

So don't feel stupid by yourself there is a whole boatload of people that felt the same way you did.

It would be easy to catch them by going to Radio Shack and picking up a phone line recorder. You plug it into a phone jack, hidden behind some furniture. Then go out with friends, etc. a lot. You are lucky they are not using a cell phone. In a day or so you will have all the information you need and details. Until then, do not tip them off, they just get sneakier and deny, deny, deny. If you get proof, immediately inform OW's H and play it back to him. That will shake things up a little. Don't blame yourself, of course you can be fooled, you are trusting them. Also start reading on this site big time. It will give you all kinds of info on saving your marriage.

filly

Thinking about you and yours this week-end also.

I believe from what I read that your H is having/had a PA. To much evidence. I think you will feel better if you have certain proof. So take Orchid's advice and get something to prove it. Then and only then will you be certain and he cannot deny, deny, deny. And if things are going to work out for you two, and from what you say so far I believe there is a great chance it will, then the healing/repair can begin. Not until he admits and then dumps the b**tch.

Anti-depress and prayer help you focus.

Hang in there the roller coaster ride is far from over. We are here for you. I will check every day or two.

LYA - DD

I went and bought one of those things to record, the tape recorder and I have it hooked up in my daughters room. It is behind her bed and she will never know it is there.

He made me so mad today, we tried to talk about Jane, and he got so angry with me!! ME!!! I tried to stay calm, I said "Hey, I don't want to fight, when you calm down and can talk like a man, let me know" then I walked away and went for a car ride, (thats when I bought the duphone thing)

He said that nothing has ever happend, it was all in my head, I asked, then why is she always around? why does she call all the time? he says
she wanted help with this or that, or to plan her hubbys birthday party or what ever, I said, well you know what? I have never called any of YOUR friends for help for such lame things (car problems, marraige problems etc) If I needed help I asked you, my husband, if you could'nt help me, I took the truck/car to a gargage!! I have sisters I can talk to about marraige problems and so does she!! Why after all these years does she call YOU? That is when he blew up, well, not exactly a blow up, but he got very angry and that is when I walked out. What a jerk he is!! I also told him it would be much easier if he just was honest so we could deal with this.

I am going to call Janes hubby as soon as I have proof on that tape, If I don't get any proof in about a week, I am still going to call him and tell him what I think and why I think it. I was at first going to tell my husband he had 24 hours to come clean and then I would tell John, but they would probably just get together and make up some lie!!

I am trying to stay away from him, when he comes into the house, I just go and do something else elsewhere. I am to afraid I will just blow and make things worse right now. I just can't seem to get into doing plan A right now, as I am so mad and could just take a bullwhip to his [censored] and hers!!
I also keep thinking about them alone, and what they could or have done, it makes me sick. Those thoughts are coming and getting worse and worse, at first I was shocked, now I keep seeing them together and it is just sickening!! I want to know!!! Right now, if he tried to lay one hand on me I think I would throw-up!!

filly - you're normal The throw - up thing gets better over time I think. I still get it and I'm on 4 weeks since D.

Me thinks he protests too much!

Don't believe your ready for plan A. Verify, vent then plan A

GL - LYA - DD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Me thinks he protests too much! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, the anger when you bring up things that might disrupt their relationship is a very damning sign. It is typical of WS behavior. There are alternative explanations, so it not proof, of course, but it would make me very suspicious.

filly
I will be praying for God to ease your pain, calm your heart, and to give you strength. I know the terror you felt this weekend, my own terror was the preceeding weekend when I totally freaked out. My OM lives 250 mi away but they are still just as sneaky. I hadn't heard about the Radio Shack stuff so that will be my next shopping trip. They are totally by phone and email these days.

If noone has told you yet, read Surviving An Affair. It opened my eyes to how this stuff can happen. It will also give you peace and guidance. Yes, it is total hell being the BS, but hug your kids and teach them to be strong and to stick to their committments by your example. They'll know something is wrong and will try to help you as best they can.

This board is good but is not professional help. You will need both IC and MC. Read and learn what you can do. I have a lot of guilt about setting up the environment in which WW's A could occur. Think seriously about anti-D meds they will help to keep you functional (I start them tomorrow).

While you may never meet us, we are here for you. Type as fast as you want and pour it out. There are many people who understand.

I have them on tape!!! HE is telling her she has to stop calling him and following him around!! He says that I (meaning me) have figured it all out and wanted to know who she told!! He is furious with her that I know! She says there is no way that I know anything, he is just bng paranoid, She was acting all surprised and all, that no she has not told anyone, she begged him to meet with her last night and he said "No way, don't call me anymore, I cant keep doing this, I will lose **** (meaning me) my kids, my house and everything for what you? your not worth it" She started to cry and beg him, he was like hey, you knew I would never leave her, Now I am really freaked out. Not only do I have confirmation and what I hope is the break up on one tape, I don't know what to do now!!

The call goes on another couple of minutes thne she starts getting mad, she tells him she is going to call ME and tell ME that they are in love, and he tells her " I have never said I loved you! What the hell are you trying to do?"
She then says and this is rich, well you sure don't love her or you would never have been with me!! He says back "I just f====ed up big time, you and I are not a couple, we are not nothing we had sex a few times and you expect me to walk out on my life for you? You threaten to destroy my wife and my kids? for what? YOU? then she interups him and says "Yes I do, my life was falling apart with John, he has been drinking to much and never helps me with anything ..." at the end of he litle tirade she adds, "I thought that is where we were headed, i thought you would eventually leave her and you and I would be together: He says "I never said that, I never once said I would leave her, or that I did'nt love ++++, right now I could lose it all and I am telling you, I will not let that happen. She is not leaving this house and neither am I, christ what have I done? a few beers and you, and look what I have done? You and me? were were nothing but sex a couple of times. That is it. SHe blurts out "You have just used me haven'nt you?" He says back "I think we used each other, you may wnat out of your life, I don't want out of mine"

It goes on like that with her apparently going to call ME!! WHAT DO I DO WITH THAT CALL? Do I tell her that I know? Do I still call her husband? I am most definately going to play it for hubby tonight when he gets home from work. I know there is NO way he knew about the tape machine on the phone, no way at all. I don't think he has been in my daughters room in months.

He sounded angry with her and I could tell by his voice that he does not like her a whole lot anymore, he cut her down quick. She was the agrressor in this phone call. But still, they have been fooling around, or 'having sex a couple of times' is how he put it.

Myhead is spinning right now. I did'nt go to work today, I hope I don't get in trouble for that. I just called and said I could'nt come in.

What is my next move? I feel like Friday night all over again, Ifeel that feeling coming on where you get all confused and anxious. What do I do now?

filly,

{{{{{{{{HUUUUUUGS}}}}}}} for you. I am so sorry that you are in this situation. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

So now you have the proof. Take some deep breaths and figure out what you are going to do.

You are new to this site, so I suggest you read, and read some more about the principals here and step back for a moment, which I know is very hard, and figure out the healthiest way to deal with this.

I am afraid your H is going to freak out when he hears this recording and will destroy it. I don't know whether you should play this for ow's H first or not. You decide.

You might want to keep this to yourself for a while until you get yourself together and come up with a plan. You said you want to save your marriage.

Just want you to know how badly I feel for you. I have been there. The good thing about this is your H said over and again that he loves you and was never going to leave you for ow.

Now you need to look at what has been going on with your marriage. And remember, this affair is not about you, this is all about your WS, his problems, selfishness, and his wrong choices. Glad you have found MB.

You will get a lot of great advice here, it's the best site I have ever found, and people here will validate you. You are worthy. Remember that.

Hey everyone, please help filly out in this time of distress!!!

Love in Christ,
Miss M

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: Miss M ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by filly:
<strong>I have them on tape!!!
It goes on like that with her apparently going to call ME!! WHAT DO I DO WITH THAT CALL? Do I tell her that I know? Do I still call her husband? I am most definately going to play it for hubby tonight when he gets home from work.]"

Hi - good old women's intuition. MAKE A COPY OF THE TAPE RECORDED CONVERSATION AND PUT THE ORIGINAL AWAY IN A SAFE DEPOSIT BOX OR SOMEWHERE HE HAS NO POSSIBLE ACCESS TO. Play the copy for him and don't tell him you have another copy stashed away. You're smart enough to figure out why I say this.

I know it doesn't seem like it to you, but you are in a good spot.
a) You know he wants her out of her life
b) It's early in the game
c) It's not an emotional affair; it's "only" physical
d) You know he doesn't want to leave the marriage.

Of course it's painful, i know that. But you can recover your love and rebuild. (If you want to.)

Really, you hold all the cards! Don't give away your power. Read everything on this site about Plan A, Plan B, affairs, and go into Plan A. Oh, get yourself tested for STDs and insist that you H be tested too.


"Myhead is spinning right now. I did'nt go to work today, I hope I don't get in trouble for that. I just called and said I could'nt come in."

Spinning head? Oh, I remember that! I remember my face buzzing with numbness and shock, and the physical hallucination that would come on me for no reason, the sensation that I had walked through a thin membrane like the one on a bubble, that it had "popped" on my skin. Discovery of an affair can have really weird effects on your body.

Medication may be a good idea for awhile. See a psychiatrist and ask whether it would be advisable for you. I waited 18 months and did it on my own before I gave in and asked for an Rx. It helped greatly.

"What is my next move? I feel like Friday night all over again, Ifeel that feeling coming on where you get all confused and anxious. What do I do now?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"

Go take a walk, a long, brisk one. You need some endorphins. You're going to be ok. Oh, and about whether you are crazy? That's what my H said to me, there was "no affair" and I was "crazy."

Also, go read the part of this site about How Affairs Should End. The OW's H absolutely needs to know his W has been cheating on him. Then there has to be complete exposure, shine the light on the affair, and then no more softball team contact, and no go-betweens (like the OW's buddy who came along for a tour of your house) to call or contact your H with messages, appeals, ANYTHING, from the OW.

The rest is on the site. Oh, try to get help from the Harleys.

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Bellevue ]</small>

filly - good going girl. whether you know it or not you are on your way to a winner.

get Harley's Surviving an Affair. read it a couple of times it will tell you what to do next.

make copy or 2 of tape store in safe place then play it for him and for OWH.

then you will know what you and WH should do since you read SAA. Counseling! path to recovery.

You are on your way hang in there.

Talk later

LYA - DD

I called my Dr today, I am going in Friday after work for a checkup and to get something to help me sleep or deal with this somehow. I also have decided NOT to let on yet like you have a suggested. I am going to leave the machine on a few days, and oooops, I broke his cell phone today, damn thing fell out of pocket and down the basement stairs!! aaaaah, if he needs to use the phone he will need to use the house phone, at least for tonight anyhow. HA HA, and yes I did toss it down the stairs, but he need not know that.

Anyhow, I am going to wait for her to call, she has not called yet, I don't think she will. I think she was just bluffing. If she tells me, then she would be also telling her hubby, because if she does call, I will call him. I will tape that call too, if she even has the guts to call. I just don't think she does, I actaully see her as a weak, clingy little whore with no class or self respect at all. In fact, I guess in a way I have always thought she was a bit on the trashy side, even when I first met her. SHe is pretty in that kind of bar running way, to much make up, 80s mall hair type, you all know the type. She dresses very cheesy, and flaunts her body all the time. Me? I am more conservative to a point, I know when and where to dress sexy, and it would not be at the school fundraiser!! I think I dress nice, my hair is always cut and colored nice, because alot of people ask me where I get my hair done. And though she is about 6 years younger than I, I look younger, she is a party girl and that is catching up to her, I don't go in the sun, she tans like a teenager, I have alife, meaning, I have friends, and DO stuff, I don't run to the mall everyweekend, I do in my opinion FUN thingss that I like to do. She parties just about everyweekend. Sleeps most of the weekend away, sleeping off a hangover, nice mom huh? When I step back and look at the two of us, I have a great job, I am a supervisor for a large department at a University, she is a waitress (not dissing waitresses here) I have 2 kids by my husband, she has 3 kids, each by a different father I might add. My kids do sports and are involved in school and have alot of friends, hers, well the older two are in trouble alot, Her husband is a nice guy and all, but he does drink alot, my husdband owns a trucking company that has been in his family for years, our life, on the outside looks great, but I guess it is not, or else this would never of happend. I wonder where we got off track? We always got along fine, we had fun when we went out, we seem to be on the same page in alot of ways. We both love our kids, we both attend their activities, we like to go away for weekends just the two of us, when we go on vacation, we both like it just he and I, no friends, because we want it to be just he and I, then if we feel like socialising, we meet people from where ever and I thought we had a pretty good life. HE has always been good to me.

I just don't understand how this happened!! I am ten times the woman she is, I am not timid in bed if that is what you may think, We have been together for 18 years, and we always, at least I thought had a great sex life, and often also.

I just can't get this. As mad as this makes me, I just don't see why this happend. It is so 'not' him!! I was watchin g him last night help our daughter with her science project, he was so sweet with her, he calls her 'angel' and I think, how the hell could you tear apart your daughters life? How could a man who obviously loves us and who adores his kids, how could he do this to them? to me?

And what the hell does "it was just sex' mean? Like that is ok? meaning if I went out and 'just had sex' with some guy, it would be ok? and has this happend before and I knew nothing of it? Oh god, what a mess this is. This weekend we have to go to my mother in laws for a birthday dinner. I don't want to go. She can read me like a book and I don't want to upset her right now. She has worked so hard for this party and is so looking forward to seeing her siblings, they are all getting on in years and they all live so far aprat, that it may be one of the last times they all can get togetther under one roof. I would never forgive myself if I ruined this for her. I may just say I have the flu, then I wil tell her about this all when the time is right.

I could just kick his [censored] right now!! I want to smack him up side the head!! I can't get the two of them out of my mind!! I think about how intimate we are and have been, has he done this with her? God, that kills me. How on earth do I get past this? What if she was 'better in bed' than me? What if he compares us? what if he likes sex with her better?

I don't know. I am gong to start plan A tonight, well at least try to start it. I hope that I can keep it together, So I better go start dinner.

Oh and totop it off, my boss called a whle ago, and I totally blew off a very important meeting today, he is not happy, so that is on my mind to. The budget cuts are pretty wild, but there is nothing I can do, he had my reports last week, the numbers are what they are and whether I am there or not, the numbers don't change. Our department is pretty quiet right now, now that school is well under way. oh well.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by filly:
[QB] damn thing fell out of pocket and down the basement stairs!!

Just to be sure, you could stomp on it with your bootheels.

"I will tape that call too, if she even has the guts to call."

Excellent! Document, document, document.

"And what the hell does "it was just sex' mean? Like that is ok? "

It means a lot to you, but less to him. By the way, if my H had "just" had sex, no emotion, I think it would have been easier for me than knowing how in love he was with the OW. But I'm not like a lot of women.

Hang on, it will get better. It's unfortunate you missed work today. Please don't let that floozy mess your life up again, okay? I understand, you had a bomb dropped in your lap. But the OW has done enough messing with your life. From now on, you will be able to hold it together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

filly,

Thanks for the support. I feel close since we are both in this together, thank you for caring.

I am doing a good job of keeping it together in front of her, it's just here I seem to vent. I just get no signs of encouragement from her and probably are naive to expect any at this time.

She is in the fog, very confused I think. Has no future plans, just away from me. I think the mid-life crisis thing is in effect for her since she just turned 42 and OM is 35. Just don't know where her mind is, if she's going to run or is thinking or what. Very stressful. I really love her as she is my past, present, and was my entire future. I would take her back in a moment and do anything and everything to make this work. The trouble is I won't let her back in house until A is over and she seems to have no desire at this time to end it. Also, she is depleting my LB for her big time. Each day that goes by I seem to love her less and hate her more and I wonder how long until the scale is tipped in favor of DV.

Anyway enough about me. You seem very much in control of your situation and I applaud you for it. I think Bellevue is correct with, document, document, document.

What does just sex mean! My suggestion from the other end of the spectrum is that sex can be just sex for most males and sex cannot be just sex for most females since the emotions are involved. It's not okay but it is different I believe. The key for a married man is not to put yourself in the position to let an affair have the chance to happen. I wish my WW was just in it for sex. But no the "in love" emotions are involved and I am screwed. You have 70/80 percent of battle won because WH is willing to dump her immediately and get to the business of fixing you marriage.

When you say "I wonder where we got off track?' Read "HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS" and this will tell you, in my opinion, where everyone gets off track. If I had read this book a year ago I wouldn't be here now.

Gotta go. LYA - DD

filly girl I,m worried about you.

where are you.

check in let me know you are okay.

please!!

DD

filly,
you did and are doing real well. but here's the thing. why wait for janey hot pants to call you? as some one else suggested, make a couple of copies of the tape, (they will do it for you where you bought the machine i'm sure) and then take your H by the hand and walk right into old Jane & Johns's living room and play it for them!

why should you haver to wait to begin the healing process? openthe wound, clean it and get it over with, then come to the CORRECT understanding with your H and put your marriage into recovery.

and of course tell your H, that you expect that he will never have any communication with ms. J ever again for any reason.

good luck.
coach

Well, I am finally home. I played the tape for my Hubsband and he broke down, BUT that is not all!! That ***** jumped me in the parking lot of the Walmart store, broke 3 of my fingers, broke my tooth, broke three of my ribs and just pounded the crap out of me!! I layed on the ground I guess for a while untill the ambulance got there.

She went jail and my husband is absolutely beside himself with guilt, fear and anger. I am terrified of her!! The judge let her out on bail, she had to go to some Dr. for help. but I am terrified!! I was in the hospital for 4 days, oh, she beaned me in the head with this club thing also, Icould'nt see straight for a few days and if I moved I woulk puke!! I can't belive this is all happening to me!! I am bruised and sore and terrified. My life is just one big mess right now and I look like hell. My tooth will be fixed when all the swelling goes away and they want to wait untill all my wounds have healed, something about mixing the medications or what not!!

Hubby is truly freaken out now. He totally blames himself, and you know what? So do I!!! And I told him so, if he would of been a real man and had honor, I would not look like this circus reject with a tooth gone (emor pulled what was left) my face is all bruised still and My ribs hurt all the time!! It even hurts to breath!! My fingers are swollen, there was no way I could fight back, I rememberd her say, "hey *****" when I turned around she cracked me in the side of the head with some wooden thing that almost looked like a piece of a broken chair!! Then she just started swinging and hitting me and kicking me she is absolutely in sane!! It was the most horrifying thing I have ever experienced!! She tried to kill me, I swear, she tried to kill me!! She said she was sorry and she was just out of control because of what I had done!! Can you believe that????? WHAT I HAD DONE!!!! That crazy dimwit is, well crazy!!! She said that if I had not told her husband and made such a big deal she wouldnt of lost her temper!!!! *****! I wish I was strong, then I could hunt that no account trash and kick her [censored] just like she did to me. I have cried and cried and I don't know what is happening to me. It is like a bad tv show. My life is a joke!! I am a joke!

One month ago my life was normal, now I am scared to walk out the door of my own house!! Not only do I look like a freak, I feel like a fool. I am so mixed up right now, Hubby has told me everything, but right now I don't even care about that. I am terrified. We filed a restraining order and I am pressing charges, my brother moved in with me and is here during the day so I am not alone while hubby works. My dad flew home and stayed untill I got out the hospital, he flew back and is closing up the winter house and he and his wife are coming back for the winter and to see me through this. They all really jumped down my husbands throat. He just said, I know, I know, and he cries all the time, the [censored]. My dad was so angry with him!! They talked alot while he was in town and I guess that settled that. What do I do now? How do I get out of this? I am so afraid that she will be lurking in the bushes, or hiding somewhere, I just feel like a prisoner. I start to see a trauma person next week, to handle 'Post traumatic Stress' what ever, have you ever heard of that? Will she try to hurt me again? I don't know how to fight. I never have been hit in my life!! I have fantasys about beating the crap out of her, but I know I would never, could never do it. My son is just out of his mind!! HE went after her son and knocked the **** out him and was suspended for 3 days, my son has never been in trouble. This has blown up my whole family!!

Hello Filly,

I am a lurker but have been following your post, and I just had to respond. I AM SO SORRY, that this has happened to you. When I read your post I was so shaocked I could not close my mouth. I honestly could not believe that the actions of your husband have been brought onto you <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . I do hope that you have a speedy recovery, and I just wanted to let you know that this is in no means a reflection upon you, and you should in no way feel ashamed or embarrassed. What happened to you is not your fault, and I hope that she gets what is coming to her...if not by you then by someone else 10 times worse than the pain that she has caused you. You and your family are in my prayers.

Not_so_good

filly - I knew when you did not post something was wrong but had no idea.

I think you have your WS back, if you want him.
He is freaked out and he should be, it is all his fault. Your life is "one big mess" right now but you only have one way to go and that is up.

She said she was sorry, right. The only reason she was sorry was she got caught. Do a couple of things for me. 1) press charges to the full extent of the law. 2) when she is found guilty then sue her in civil court for everything you can. Cowards understand only one thing - strength. You are strong and you can "kick her [censored]" - just do it through the court system.

Your life is not a joke and you are not a joke. You are a beautiful human being that has been given a raw deal and you will be much, much stronger when you emerge from this.

Your WS ("[censored]" I believe his name is) owes you big time and I assume if he is half a man he will protect you from her and a whole lot of other things now.

I know your whole life is in turmoil , but concentrate on getting physically and emotionally well and you can deal with "[censored]" and the previous problems later.

E-mail me if you need any moral support
(layback85@yahoo.com)

My problems are in limbo and I will relate them when you feel better.

Please, please take care of yourself.

LYA - DD

filly, i'm so sorry that you've been subjected to her violence! that this W could behave in such a fashion is beyond anything. however, you can't respond to her violence with violence...not now or ever. it's up to the courts to handle this now. you should be doing nothing but healing and resting up.

one last thought...and one that has nothing to do with this thread...

a discussion on another thread recently took place regarding violence in the home....or anywhere else...

to any that think that irrational behavior on the violent side should be tolerated...FOR ANY REASON...BY ANYONE...i would suggest that you think long and hard about how something like the event described here, could ever happen...and how in anger people do the most horrible things...then decide that NO ONE around here will ever allow themselves to be a victim of this kind of thing ever, for any reason.

coach