I just had a bomb dropped on me friday night. My fiance of 5 years suddenly told me he does not love me anymore and wants me to move out. He denied that he is having an affair. Well, the next day, I say him with a woman in his car. Now, this woman is a co-worker (actually he is her boss). He was gone with her for 1 1/2 hours before he came home. When I asked him, he said he just gave her a ride home. When I asked him why that took so long, he said he went in and visited with her parents ???? Well, he has a hx of "visiting" with his co-workers, at least 3 different women in 3 different jobs. He has been spending more time away from home and our sex life in practically nil. I have begged him to just tell me the truth, but he still denied that he is seeing her. I asked him if he is in love with her. He still denies an affair. I can handle and work through a physical/sexual affair, but I don't know if I can handle him being emotionally involved. The fact that he wants me to leave and will not admit to anything makes me think he is in love with her. Well, I decided and told him last night, that I am not leaving. That I still love him, and if he is not in love with someone else, there is still a chance. Basically, I let him know that the only way he is getting rid of me is if he tells me he is in love with her. He still insists he has only cheated "in his mind", well, who hasn't. What really put a red flag up is he said he doesn't even want to try to work things out. I told him that the only explanation for that is he obviously has someone waiting in the wings. I guess I just want to know, am I jumping to conclusions, or is this as blatant as it seems to me?

Hmmm.. how to approach this? First, yes, you are jumping to conclusions - but they are very reasonable conclusions based on the behavior you are seeing. Most men do not just up and leave a relationship unless they think ther is a viable alternative nearby. Secondly, I think you are making a mistake that many women make (includng my wife, for far too many years) by assuming that because the relationship between sex and an emotional connection with someone is different for men and women, that sex for men does not involve an emotional connection. It does. That is what makes sex so attractive. So, if he is involved in a physical affair, there is an emotional connection for him. It is different than the emotional connection you might have in a similar situation, but it is there, it is real, and it is important to him. He may not even be able to articulate that, or even be consciously aware of it, but he feels it - men are wired that way.

OK, now, for how to recover, click on the link in my signature line. Since you are not married, you might want to add "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders" to the recommended reading list.

<small>[ October 28, 2003, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

OK, let me elaborate a little. First, I have suspected an interest in her in the past. She has very large breasts, which I do not, and he has made numerous comments in past about this aspect of her. But, he has mysteriously not mentioned her name once in at least 6 months. I noticed about 1 year ago that he began pulling away emotionally. Then he started having problems with impotence. We had a fabulous sex life previous to that. Also within the last year he promoted her to a position at work which she was totally unqualified for. About 6 months ago he brought home a medicine for allergies, it was her prescription. He has to go out of town frequently for work and has often worked late in the past. He is now getting up very early to go to work and coming home very late, this for about 2 months. Another thing is that he goes out "for a beer" once or twice a week, but he no longer asks me to go with him. I have seen her 2 or 3 times in the last few months, and she just looked right through me, like she did not even know me. Also, I worked in a doctor's office where she was a patient, a few months ago she transferred to another doctor. I just don't know what to do. Should I try to get proof? I know he won't admit it otherwise. Or should I just take "I don't love you" at face value and get out. I just feel that if he would come clean, we could try to make it through this. I also think he may be worried that if he breaks it off with her, she'll cause problems at work. Maybe I'm just rationalizing and making excuses for why he won't be truthful and/or break it off with her, if something is really going on. I do feel in my heart that he wants me to leave to open the door for her, and I don't want to give either of them the satisfaction.

Well, here I go again. I just feel like I have so much to say and get out of my head and no one to say it to. I moved to this area about 3 years ago to be with him. I really don't have any close friends that I would feel comfortable confiding in and I don't want to tell my family. This whole thing is making me question everything about myself. I know I am an attractive woman and intelligent. I am not difficult to live with. It just makes me wonder what he finds lacking in me. I know people have affairs for a reason, and that usually is not sex. Although we are not married, we do have a commitment. We have a home together, we have been building a life together. I gave up everything to be with him, which I now realize is a mistake. I know I can live without him, but I don't want to. I really do love him, good and bad aspects. I am an adult and long past puppy love. This has not been a destructive or codependent relationship. He has agreed to go seek counseling as he is depressed. He has a great amount of responsibility at work and we are remodeling our home. I also got layed off from my job recently, which has added stress to him. Maybe it has just built up until he snapped. I do understand that, and that I am not providing some key aspect of emotional support for him. BUT, he has never given me the opportunity to correct that, as he just closes down and shuts me out of his life. He now says he thinks trying to work things out would be uncomfortable because he would not feel like his actions or mine would be genuine. I assured him mine would be real. What's wrong with doing something to make your mate happy, even if it is something you would not normally do for yourself. To me, that is just an aspect of love, you want to do things to make the other person happy, and that IS genuine. I really feel he has just let things build up and now something has to go, and that something is me. I believe what started as flirtation with an employee turned into an emotional and physical affair, which stoked his ego at a time when he was not feeling very good about himself. I can hyperrationalize everything, I guess that is a way of coping. But, I really don't think we can move on until he comes clean.

OK, someone please talk to me. I am falling apart here. I have completely degraded myself by pouring my heart out to him and practically begging him to give me another chance. ME! Like i'm the one who had the affair. I don't know what it is. The truth is, he is not very good looking, so that has nothing to do with it. I knew him for about 6 months before we went out, although he hit on me immediately when I first met him. But I was involved with someone else at the time. I really got to know him, not the external, but the heart and soul. We couldn't keep our hands off of each other for 3 years. Then BAM! it changed, at least on his part. We honestly have only had 2 or 3 big fights in 5 years and very seldom even an argument. I now understand that is because he does not communicate, he just lets it stew. I have offered to go to couseling with him, as a couple. He declined, but states we will see a psychiatrist. I am trying to be an adult about this, but I hurt so bad right now, and I am so angry with him. I have been unable to eat for 4 days, I have diarrhea, I can't sleep, I shake all the time and I CANNOT THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE. The thought of him touching someone else fills me with rage, the thought of him loving someone else fills me with despair. HELP!!!

OK, someone please talk to me. I am falling apart here. I have completely degraded myself by pouring my heart out to him and practically begging him to give me another chance. ME! Like i'm the one who had the affair. I don't know what it is. The truth is, he is not very good looking, so that has nothing to do with it. I knew him for about 6 months before we went out, although he hit on me immediately when I first met him. But I was involved with someone else at the time. I really got to know him, not the external, but the heart and soul. We couldn't keep our hands off of each other for 3 years. Then BAM! it changed, at least on his part. We honestly have only had 2 or 3 big fights in 5 years and very seldom even an argument. I now understand that is because he does not communicate, he just lets it stew. I have offered to go to couseling with him, as a couple. He declined, but states we will see a psychiatrist. I am trying to be an adult about this, but I hurt so bad right now, and I am so angry with him. I have been unable to eat for 4 days, I have diarrhea, I can't sleep, I shake all the time and I CANNOT THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE. The thought of him touching someone else fills me with rage, the thought of him loving someone else fills me with despair. HELP!!!

OK, someone please talk to me. I am falling apart here. I have completely degraded myself by pouring my heart out to him and practically begging him to give me another chance. ME! Like i'm the one who had the affair. I don't know what it is. The truth is, he is not very good looking, so that has nothing to do with it. I knew him for about 6 months before we went out, although he hit on me immediately when I first met him. But I was involved with someone else at the time. I really got to know him, not the external, but the heart and soul. We couldn't keep our hands off of each other for 3 years. Then BAM! it changed, at least on his part. We honestly have only had 2 or 3 big fights in 5 years and very seldom even an argument. I now understand that is because he does not communicate, he just lets it stew. I have offered to go to couseling with him, as a couple. He declined, but states we will see a psychiatrist. I am trying to be an adult about this, but I hurt so bad right now, and I am so angry with him. I have been unable to eat for 4 days, I have diarrhea, I can't sleep, I shake all the time and I CANNOT THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE. The thought of him touching someone else fills me with rage, the thought of him loving someone else fills me with despair. HELP!!!

...

<small>[ February 16, 2004, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: cpx ]</small>

Message boards are slow during the day but everyone here wants to give support...

Try getting the book "Surviving and Affair" by the Harely's.

cpx

Thank you for your replies. I guess deep down I wanted someone to say, no, it doesn't mean he is having an affair. But I know deep down that he is. Even if he is willing to work on our relationship, it will be difficult, because he sees her everyday. So, I think I will try to find one of those voice activated recorders and put it in his vehicle. He tries to make me feel guilty for not trusting him. I should also mention that I have had EA in past, when I was with my x-husband. He was good to me, but I felt like something was missing. I thought I found it with this one. In 5 years I have never had a desire to be with anyone else. All my fantasies have involved him. It is just really hard to think that someone does not love you. The real eye opener is I now realize how much pain I caused my ex. And I know from experience that yes, there is also pain for the guilty party. I just can't help thinking I got exactly what I deserved. "What goes around comes around".

There are a lot of us that may care about you that are not able to get here as often as we would like. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I can see you explore your feelings for him, as well as his feelings for you.

There are a lot of things going on here. We don't understand all the reasons. I know you want resolution - you want to know what to do, and how to proceed. You want to do something that makes a difference and saves your relationship.

The first place to start must be to learn. At this point I don't know how much you have read from John's suggested reading list. I encourage you to read as much as you can. In the mean time, the recorder idea is a good one. You must be careful what you do with your findings because you can make things worse very quickly if you react in the wrong way to what you discover.

As you read, you will be able to better understand what happened, and what needs to be done to have the best chance of repairing your relationship. We want so badly for you to find some emotional relief, but it takes time and it is not an easy road to travel.

Do see a doctor about anti depressants. Many, Many here have been helped through the discovery period in this manner, don't be afraid of getting help.

Don't think it will be fixed in a week or a month. It took months to come apart, it may take the same amount of time to put back together.

Be patient, this will take a great deal of brains and your energy, but you look like you have both. Remember daily that you have what it takes, and that you can do it. There will be set backs but over time you can make progress.

You need a plan, and reading will give you background to produce one. I recommend you call the Harleys if you are able to do so. They are very good at what they do, and you will feel better knowing you have the best on your side working for recovery. I do suggest you begin with plan A - you can read about it on this site. It means you meet his needs, avoid Love Busters, and you do other things to get him to end the affair. It does not mean you become a door mat, and give him everything he ever dreamed of 24/7. You do need boundaries in plan A. You do need to protect your own feelings. Remember, we care about you, but we are fellow travelers, not counselors. Please learn as much as you possibly can so you can make better decisions.

Please know we care about you. I would be happy to pray for you if you feel that would help.

SS

Thank You! I truly appreciate your input. I guess I just needed to hear different takes on the situation, just to make sure I am not seeing more than there is to see. Since I last posted, I have been doing some investigation. I spoke to an honest, reliable, but not often seen friend, who does have other connections to my partner. It helped tremendously to talk with her and what she said shocked me. She said it is common knowledge in their business community that he is a wh**e. That he is known to have multiple affairs. She even gave me specific names. A couple of which shocked me. So, apparently he has a significant problem. He has been unfaithful to me at least 3 times. These are always people he has a professional connection to. I can now see he is headed for a downfall if he does not get help. I can not help him and unless he changes, he is not ever going to be able to have a truthful, meaningful relationship. He will always feel the need to move on to someone new, to experience that initial rush. I am still torn somewhat. I still feel myself in love with him, but I now realize I probably don't even know the real him. I don't think he has faced himself and why he does what he does. Its kind of sad. I will still stay for a while longer, because that is what is best for me. To get back on my feet and not have that extra pressure of having to start all over from scratch. I will not confront him with what I know. I have no way to prove it. I have went through every paper, check stub, reciept I can find. There is nothing concrete there, at least not that I can see. I still have not completely given up. I will take it one day at a time. If he gets help, there is a chance. But I will never trust him again, as obviously I should have never done so to begin with. I will not pursue him, I will not argue, I will be perfectly pleasant, but I will not let him play the victim. In a weird way, I feel much better since learning all of this. I now feel more that even though I have definitely not always given him what he wants or needs, there is not something terribly wrong with me that drove him away or made him stop loving me. He just can't help himself.

Remember that you have a great deal of power here.

You don't have to stay.

You are as free as you want to be. I don't say that because I think that is what you ought to do - because I believe you ought to continue to gather information until you have enough to make a more informed decision. But, as you continue to learn remember the power you have over your own life. You do have choices.

It sounds like you do want to help him, and you have it correct. You cannot help him if he refuses help. There are others on the MB site that have coped with multiple affairs. From my observation it is more difficult to help them than someone that has not lived that lifestyle for so long a time.

It sounds like you have all the proof you need. I would have taken your first observations as proof, they were strong enough for me after reading at MB for quite some time. Remember again that you don't have to hurry and confront him. He's shown that he likes to be a cake eater and he doesn't look like he is leaving you any time soon unless you kick him out. If you want to take time to get a job you can probably do that.

I am curious as to how you met him, and what the circumstances were. I hope I don't offend you by asking, but some of what you relate makes me wonder.

You seem to be recovering from the shock of discovery already - I hope this is true. Please know that you really will feel better in time.

SS

<small>[ October 28, 2003, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Your question is absolutely on the money. I, of course, met him through a previous job. So, I guess that makes it a lot easier for me to believe. He has also told me himself about 2 other relationships he has had in the past at 2 different work places. They, however, were not long term relationships. I have not said a word about these other possible affairs I have recently learned of. Of course, I know he would deny them, and the other issue is, I don't want him to know my source. Right now I am just taking it day to day, and doing a little spying. I admit, he is a very good liar. He says just enough to cover his tracks and not a word more. I am so tempted to tell him that I have changed my mind, that I can't do this anymore, and I have to get out so I can start to heal. But right now I am biding my time. I want the truth from him. I don't think I CAN heal until he comes clean. I honestly am wondering at this point who he really is and if I have ever known him at all. But then at times he can be so convincing and charming that I start questioning myself. I know this is not healthy for me right now, but I just cannot walk away that easily. I know from what I read at this site that living together is not considered to be a life long commitment. I would like to say that in my heart it was and could still be a lifetime commitment. I have been through 2 marriage and divorces. The first to a very abusive man when I was very young. The 2nd was better, but I was the one who hurt him and I of course left him for my present partner. I know this next thing might sound off the wall, but I have to get it out of my system. I really think she may be pregnant. I had cancer 4 years ago and I cannot have children. He made a comment recently about changing his mind that this did not matter and that he has now decided it DOES matter. Now, we have talked about this issue extensively in the past and made the decision that if we did decide to have a child together, there were alternatives, even to have a biological child. I must add that I do have 3 children from previous marriage, the youngest 14, the oldest 18. Also, in a casual conversation with a person who works with them, she mentioned that M (the OW) has appeared "swollen" lately and everyone was wondering if she was sick. Now, note, I did not tell this person anything about what was going on, it was just a short, casual chat about nothing in particular. So, in summary, I still have a lot of questions, but I am slowly trying to get the answers without putting him too much on quard. Oh, one other thing, I did get into his email. He does not save his sent stuff, but I checked his address book and sure enough, there was here email address, and in my experience, you do not save an address unless you use it pretty often.

...

<small>[ February 16, 2004, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: cpx ]</small>

I really don't know much about software or computers, his email was very easy to get into, I found his address and his password was easy to guess. I think he knows I did it and now I am afraid to do it again. Also, he NEVER uses the computer at home, only at work. I spoke to a friend yesterday, and she says I should just act like nothing is bothering me, just have everything done, and myself dressed up when he comes home and casually say, "well, I'll be back in a couple of hours", you know, just kind of turn the tables on him and see how he reacts. I am finding it very hard not to show my anger with him. I am trying to be pleasant and not constantly throw out accusations. One thing did give me hope, on DDay I spoke with one of his friends, he is aware of this and his only question was "did he hit on you". He also asked me last night if I left the house the night before after he went to bed. I didn't. I don't know if he is just wanting to think I am doing something on the side to justify hisself, or if he's worried/jealous. I asked him how he would feel if he saw me with another man. His only comment "it would upset me".

Nurse,

I am younger and less experienced than you, but I believe that 2 wrongs don't make a right. I don't believe that "teaching him a lesson" will solve anything...it would be a LB (Love Buster). And the history of your relationship is very complicated.

Please don't think I am preaching to you...I know how difficult it is to bite your tounge - to hold back the accusations and stabbing comments. I also was tempted to go out and do what WW did, just to teach her a lesson, to show her how wrong it was and how much pain it causes...and also to repair my crushed ego. But in the end these things, LBs, only cause more pain and guilt.

As for getting the truth...that's a tough one. The voice-recorder will probably do the trick...but be cautious with the information you get - how you use it, I mean. Is he going to go to counselling with you?

cpx

Well, I have confirmed today 100% in my mind that he is definitely having an affair. I know who and I know it has been at least 6 months. At this point I am really drained. I have made the decision to move out. That is not something I will be able to do in the next few days. I will have to depend on him somewhat initially. I am just going to tell him that I do love him, but I now realize I can not live every day with the dishonesty. I really think he needs to make a decision and at this time his decision is that he wants to be with her. Maybe he will change his mind eventually, but I know I cannot force him into that. I will just try to make a life for myself and maybe this thing with the OW will play itself out and he will consider working this out with me. But I now know that if he is unwilling to admit to what is going on that he is not ready to give her up. I do think the situation is complicated, especially because of his job. I think he has dug such a hole for himself that he is not sure how to get out of it and my leaving seems the easiest solution for him. I now suspect all may not be going well at work and he may be in some trouble. In essence he is trying to run away from his problems. We all know that usually does not work. All I can do is give him some time. I will not sit and wait, but I will continue to hope. I also know that there is no way for me to provide absolute proof to him, to convince him to admit to the affair. It will just have to be enough that I know. So, if he never admits to this, then I can never believe that it is over. That may be the wrong approach and attitude, but it is how I feel. I also have to think of my children and I can not let them live in such a stressful situation. For there benefit, we need to start a life. I am extremely strained trying to maintain a half way normal daily lifestyle with my children when I am consumed with pain and confusion. I have spoke with my children to some degree, to let them know we are having problems and that we may be moving. They are plenty old enough to understand and I think under the circumstances coping well. They will go to their father's this weekend to give me some time and to get them out of the tension for a while. I must add, we do not argue in front of them and have been perfectly pleasant to one another. I know my kids still feel the tension, heck, even my dog knows something is wrong. Oh, and I know that after today he will know I have been checking up on him. I saw one of his friends when I drove past the OW house. I know this friend probably knows about the affair and will tell him I was out there. I just couldn't resist. I did not know where she lived and just found out today. A part of me wants to catch him in the act. But I don't think that is a good idea. As I said, I already know 100% in my heart and mind that it is true, I don't need to put myself in a position to do something stupid.

Oh, I must add one more thing. I have absolutely no intention of going out with anyone else. That is the last thing on my mind. It just occured to me to make him worry a little, just to see how he reacts. But I don't guess I will do that. I really don't want to give him any reason to act like he is the injured or betrayed party.

At this point there is probably not much we can do to help directly. It appears that he does this as a lifestyle, and he has to want to change before anything can happen on his end.

I recommend you continue to learn as much as you can - the concepts here can help you all your life in any relationship - including the relationships you have with your children.

I am so sorry for the shock and pain you are dealing with. Sometimes we tend to either blame our selves, or get angry and say and do things that don't help recovery or healing. I hope no matter what he does, that you can learn from this and make a better life for you and your children.

How are you doing emotionally? You sound like you are doing well, that you function well in a crisis, but I hope you are not really down right now.

Please take care of your self. Sometimes it is hard to remember to eat, and it is hard to get enough sleep. You need good health to cope, so please pay attention to the details of your life - your children are counting on you to do that.

SS