</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stunned-dad-fast recovering:
[QB
You see she is the most isolated party in all of this. She is the most wounded party in all of this. She stands to lose the most in all of this.
[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is what I've been feeling for the past 10 days. WS and OW have each other. They have someone that tells them they are loved. They have someone that makes tender love to them. I have no one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Takola:

You answered your own 2uestions in the first post.

Admirably, I might add.

I think we all have the tendency 2 want 2 punish the WS, whether we realize it, or admit it. I know I did for the 2longest time.

In many ways, I believe that the BS has as many life lessons 2 struggle through as the WS does, during planA/B or whathaveyou. It would certainly speed up the process of recovery or reconciliation if they didn't take 2long flopping around with it, like I did. But if my experience is any indication, they probably need 2 go through it. Hopefully, they get beyond or above the need for punishment about the same time the WS comes out of the fog. If they don't, there might not be anything 2 save, just like a WS stuck in the fog can wait 2long 2 come out, only 2 find the BS has grown and moved irrevocably on.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can't really fault her for not wanting to step up to the plate when he is still out playing the field.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I can. He is waiting for her to step up to the plate and she is waiting for him to do it - AND NO ONE IS STEPPING UP TO THE PLATE. If she steps up to the plate, then his excuses are gone.

I have a story that illustrates why. My analogy is this: it is silly to stand in a sinking boat arguing over who should start bailing first.

I will paste my story here and create a thread for it, as I've never done so on this board. It has received a bit of attention on EN, though.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is what I've been feeling for the past 10 days. WS and OW have each other. They have someone that tells them they are loved. They have someone that makes tender love to them. I have no one. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, this hurts. I'm not denying that. I'm saying what needs to be done in order to get past this point, in spite of the pain.

I would address this in a thread to WSs (and probably will some day) but I have to be able to write a thread to them w/o a bunch of DJs and that is beyond my capacity right now.

"A Tale of Two Takers"


John and Kate bought a beautiful new boat. This boat was the most grand of all that they had seen. This boat was perfect for them, strong and sturdy. They were sure that it would last them the rest of their lives.

At first, they took almost obsessively good care of the boat. Kate would rub the seats with protectant each week. John always made sure the engine was properly taken care of. They worked together and the boat shined and was very reliable. They did this every week, then every other week; then they made sure to do it each month...

Winter was setting in, and it was Kate's job to make sure the boat was shrink-wrapped to winterize it; however, Kate really wanted to go to lunch with her friends that day. She was upset that she did it each year. That day, she decided that if he wouldn't do it, neither would she. So, she went to lunch and a movie with her friends and had a great time.

John noticed that Kate hadn't had the boat shrink-wrapped, and it made him angry. He knew that he could do it, but that wasn't the point. The point was that it was KATE's job to do it. So, he didn't do it, either. Kate was fuming that John didn't get the boat wrapped, but was not going to give in. She did it EVERY year and was not about to do it this year. She was getting very mad at John. She noticed rust beginning to show on the motor, but she decided that the motor was John's job. If he were doing his job, then he'd notice on his own.

John noticed that the boat didn't look as good as it used to. It didn't shine and it was showing signs of age. The upholstery was cracking and mold and mildew were obvious. He was angry and finally decided that if Kate wasn't going to do her job, then by God - neither would he. There were other things he wanted to do, too. So he spent his weekends watching sports and golfing and had a great time.

They went on like this day after day for what seemed like forever. Then one day they were out on their boat. Kate noticed water seeping in, and told John that they had a leak. John told her that the boat could not leak. It was made of very durable material and some water must have just splashed in the boat. Kate watched more and more water come in, and finally got John's attention. He couldn't find the leak, so he went to turn on the motor to get them to shore. The motor, however, would not start. It had not been serviced, oiled, or kept in good condition. This day it finally failed. That's when Kate and John realized that their boat was sinking.

There were 2 buckets in the cabin, so Kate told John to get them. He wanted Kate to get them. Finally, Kate went and came back with one bucket. John looked at her very exasperated. If she couldn't get HIM a bucket, too, then he didn't NEED a bucket. SHE could bail it herself. Kate figured if John wouldn't bail, then neither would she. It was HIS neglect that got them in this situation; therefore, he should bail first. John was steadfast that Kate should bail first. After all, she neglected her job in the first place, which made him not care about his. SHE started it.

The water was getting deeper. John relented and went and got his bucket. That way, he'd have it in hand to start bailing. BUT Kate would have to start. It was HER fault and HER problem. Kate decided since John went and got a bucket, she would wait for him to start bailing. HE had let the boat fall into such disrepair. He should bail all night; it was his just due.

Finally, the boat had enough water to seriously be testing Archimedes' principle. They looked at each other. Kate said, "I'll bail if you start. This IS your fault." John said, "My fault? You started it! You should bail first!"

And the boat sank. How silly to stand there in a sinking boat arguing over who should start bailing....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I can. He is waiting for her to step up to the plate and she is waiting for him to do it - AND NO ONE IS STEPPING UP TO THE PLATE. If she steps up to the plate, then his excuses are gone.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes it makes so much sense...but geuss what it isn't working is it?

People who feel threatened do not see logically.

No better example than the half century old state of affairs between Arabs and Jews in the middle east.

Its not in the best interest of Arabs to have thier sons shot by soldiers for throwing rocks or to have their villages bulldozed or bombed to the gournd.

Its not in the best interest of Jews to have suicide bombers killing and maiming dozens in open markets or schools. Its not in their best interest to spend such a large percentage of gross national product on their military.

But neither side feels safe neither side trusts the other. And so for decades they remain at an impasse while everyone tells them what they are doing is not in their best interest.

If your goal is get either one of them to move forward you must make them feel safe.

Until then you are going to have more ulcers and less success.

What message am I sending my spouse?

Very simple. I am ready to move on to building a better and stronger marriage, to be a better and more loving husband. I seek no revenge or have any desire to 'get even'.

Is the message recieved? Perhaps, but I am not sure. What I am getting now is static. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />