Awed18,

Hi, I can't begin to tell you how thrilled I am and ecstatic this morning because yesterday I thought it was going to be just an ordinary one.

Came to work, called him a few times coz he wasn't feeling better and when I came home, he had this look on his face that says "I am so glad to see you and I really missed you! " which of course he verbalized through words and lots and lots of hugs and thank you's for me being solid and sweet and being there for him through his and our ordeal. I said I apologize too for the times that I have disrespected him through my constant nags and reminders of the OW. I promised never to do that again as I realized that "2 wrongs won't make it right."
So off we went to our photographer as I had some photo shots taken and we collaborated on what we wanted for the album. During the process he was always kissing me and touching me and just being sweet.
Came home and went to bed but we didn't sleep right away we talked some more and again he was sorry for everything and thanked me for all my support and love. Then during the rest of the night I felt him just hugging me tight and kissing me and he was saying ILY and that whatever it is about yesterday he felt that I put a spell on him because his love for me is coming back and he's so excited about it that he couldn't sleep.

I was like, Oh my God, this is happening, ok calm down maybe this is temporary but of course I returned the affection and love and it was so tender and beautiful. He told me to just keep doing what I'm doing because it is working!!! MBers, thank you thank you thank you!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ok maybe too early to celebrate but these are small victories that I feel are equally as important and a testament that the Plans are indeed working! No more LBs at any time!!! Oh Awed you are my saviour. Thanks for those timely advice, I couldn't have done this without your direction and support. This morning before I left for work he said the most impt words "ILY" and my God it is so sweet! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know this is premature because it will still be a long road to recovery but I know that at least I have the tools and skills needed to fight this war. I made myself so attractive and lovable and my usual sweet self and in a month's time he came around. I thought I was going to lose him but the stories here made me realize that I have the full advantage over the OW because I live with him and I have all the time to show him what he will be losing if ever he decides to go the other path.

I thank God and all my friends here for this sweet victory, and I know that I will be here for the long haul.

BTW, I don't think I want to obsess about the C anymore and if ever I feel like there is I will just calmly and respectfully ask and listen. I am in control of my reactions and I will make sure that it will not ruin our recovery.

God bless,
BF

I am thrilled to hear your news!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now: keep up the good work, and start on the next phase...recovery. Plan A is great training...the hard work truly begins in recovery.

Star*fish said something to someone yesterday that I've said over and over...the biggest hurdle to recovery could well be the BS! Part of it (I believe) is that you can do extraordinary things when you are in extraordinary circumstances...you know, moms lifting trucks off their babies and all... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

But when into recovery, you relax...you're no longer fighting for your life (R/M) and it is at that point that a lot of the resentment can creep back in and come flaming out unexpectedly.

My VERY best suggestion: have fun. Make recovery fun.

But work too: have a plan, follow the plan, post here for inspiration, and use those tools you've learned. Fighting? Raised voices? Heated emotions? STOP. Leave the room. Hand up: "I can't discuss this right now." Emotions will always cool down...lots of heated words can NEVER be taken back once said.

Set your boundaries. Keep them calmly but firmly. Discuss ANY breach of trust. Ditto to calm and firm. Be prepared to go over and over and over and over the same ground. Get books. Print material. Try to understand without obsessing.

Are you in counselling? Can you get counselling? If I haven't already asked this (sorry if I have...I'm pressed for time right now so can't read through!), please consider it -- there are such excellent pre-M counselling courses available through most churches. Basics like here (communication et al) but really helpful...helpful to go through with other couples too, etc.

You've already had a significant wake-up call...start your M on the right road. Acknowledge you both have problems and commit to a strategy together that will A-proof your M.

I think counselling/M courses will help you to do this.

Specifically related to a question you'd asked before, I found something from John that I think is excellent...food for thought:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...but forgiveness and reconciliation are two separate things. The pain and trust issues remained barriers to reconciliation. It turns out the pain fades with time, if the actions that produced it are not repeated. That leaves trust, and trusting that the actions will not be repeated, as the sole barrier to reconciliation.

As far as I can discern there is really only one approach to re-establishing trust, and a couple of well-established ways to get there. In both cases, the bottom line is: believe their actions, not their words, at least until you have seen a consistent pattern of their words and actions being aligned for a period of many months. That necessarily means you have to be more involved in their lives so that you have the ability to verify that their actions and words are cohesive.

The path to get there, according to Willard Harley, is to have no secrets from each other, and to use the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) in all your decisions. Once you see your spouse consistently use the POJA, and the two of you have learned to understand each other and communicate with each other well enough to implement it, you will trust them when they are out of sight, too. Perhaps ironically, one thing that will convince you of your spouse's honesty is if they tell you things they know will hurt, instead of lying or keeping silent to "protect" you. So this process will likely not be painless, especially since, if you are like most couples, it will require learning a new way to communicate. Change is hard.

A second path, promoted by Carder in &#8220;Torn Asunder&#8221; (and the younger Harleys, too, I think), is for the WS to really dig in to the "WHY?" of the affair, and in gaining that self-understanding, communicate to you both why it happened, and how they will change their behavior in ways that you can verify and that will prevent them from having another.

Of course, these two paths are not mutually exclusive. I view them as complementary, and think &#8220;Surviving an Affair&#8221;, by Harley is extremely helpful in figuring out important parts of the why, at least as far as the answer involves unmet Emotional Needs, and it almost always does, especially for a woman who has an affair.

The fallacy is the belief that unmet EN&#8217;s &#8220;cause&#8221; affairs. If that was the case, I would have had the affair, not my wife, because my EN&#8217;s were less well met in our marriage than hers.

Unmet EN's do not cause affairs, they cause lousy marriages. If you read Harley thoroughly and carefully, he does not say unmet EN's cause affairs, either, though it is a so common a misconception among his readers that I would say he should do some re-writing of his material. Reading SAA, it can be easy to conclude that unmet needs are the reason for affairs. Not so. Affairs are entirely the responsibility of those involved, and the reasons vary.

Our MC worked w/ Bill Harley for 8 years, and according to him, in about 40% of MEN'S affairs unmet EN's had very little to do with it. Yes, there were usually unmet EN's in their marriages, because no marriage is perfect. But, having the wife find out about and meet his most important EN's did not stop the affairs from re-kindling or stop the husband from having another. Harley is aware of this, which is why his plan for recovery is a lot more complicated than: 1.) Take the EN questionnaire. 2.) Meet your spouse&#8217;s EN's. Our MC said that in his opinion, for that 40%, if the wife had been meeting the husband's top 5 EN's PERFECTLY, the husband still would have had the affair. If you want to learn more, read "The State of Affairs", by Todd Mulliken particularly the chapter on "The Double Life Man". Though the percentage of women who have this type of affair is small, it is not zero.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Awed18,

I never thought I'd be back soon to this site. Well, thought things are going along as planned but I wasn't fully warned that good times can be very short lived as in a day short lived. Why?

Well, Friday he went with his parents and after went out with his friend who kept calling me to reassure me and promised to be back home by 10 PM. Believed him and did my shopping.

Came home and played in my PC. While there thought of checking his email/hotmail. Didn't know the password but God must be watching and voila I was able to get in! Was shaking because I wasn't sure what to find. Well, 4 emails from her still waiting on the wings and wanting to see him. One email from him that says "Love cannot be stopped" and I was like shocked that he said a few days after telling me that he was feeling in love with me again.

In short, didn't confront him but told him respectfully that I know that they were still having C, first denied then admitted but only on phone calls as OW is an hour or so away. Eventually told him what I saw and he denied having said those or can't remember yeah right!

So I reminded him again of the NC and of course during those moments when they're caught they would make all kinds of promises to appease you and the short memoried people that they are forgets it once everything is back to rosy and peaceful.

As what I've been reading here on "recovery" there are indeed false ones and they become good at staying the course so they can have the best of both worlds.

I am the point of sometimes giving up and just want to go ahead and plunge to Plan B. Did I do a good plan A? Am not sure, waiting for SAA book that I ordered maybe will get some clarity there.

He did tell me the other day that he wants to be by himself to figure out his feelings not for the OW but for me if he will miss everything that we had and, I go please go right ahead, if this is what you need to figure out then I told myself that I will need to implement Plan B then so I can still have the love for him whenever he decides to fully recommit. He expressed that he doesn't want to kill the love that I have for him.

I'm not sure anymore if I want to continue the fight. There are days when I want to hang on and days when it's like don't give a care in the world and he senses it and tries to meet my EN.

Right now just getting tired of the same stuff. Will rest my heart tonight.

BF

Ah shoot...I was really hoping he meant it... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> what does he have to say about lying to you?

About the renewed contact...that's pretty common. Like any addict, they'll fall off the wagon a few times at first. Some make it cold turkey...some few.

But it's the honesty that's crucial now...if you have your LBs under control (and it certainly sounds to me like you do), then why can't he tell you the truth? Have you asked him that? If so, what does he say?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Did I do a good plan A? Am not sure, waiting for SAA book that I ordered maybe will get some clarity there. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why aren't you sure? What could you do better?

Why do you want to move to Plan B? Give me your reasons.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So I reminded him again of the NC and of course during those moments when they're caught they would make all kinds of promises to appease you and the short memoried people that they are forgets it once everything is back to rosy and peaceful. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hang on...it's easy to be bitter (and of course, easy for me to suggest that you NOT be bitter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) but try not to think of it this way. It doesn't help.

He is caught in a web of his own lies and deceit, as much as you are. In fact, more than you. Because at least you can tell the difference once you know what to look for, once you see it in black and white.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He expressed that he doesn't want to kill the love that I have for him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...and your response was?

Okay...now the real work begins! What are you doing for yourself? How have you pampered yourself lately? What do you enjoy? Do you have good friends? Are you taking advantage of friends/family right now? NOT to talk about your R or the A but to get your mind off it as much as you can!!!

Laughter is indeed the best cure for everything. Try to be with people who make you laugh.

I'm serious too... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ...awed

Ah shoot...I was really hoping he meant it... what does he have to say about lying to you?

He said he was not the one contacting her but she's the one who's sending him emails so I asked him to close that account.

About the renewed contact...that's pretty common. Like any addict, they'll fall off the wagon a few times at first. Some make it cold turkey...some few.

Don't know when they'll stay there permanently. It seems that everytime they fall my love bank is being withdrawn and afraid to wake up with a zero account for him.

But it's the honesty that's crucial now...if you have your LBs under control (and it certainly sounds to me like you do), then why can't he tell you the truth? Have you asked him that? If so, what does he say?

He tells me only when I catch him, but there are moments when he would volunteer the information about it was good that he was able to see the ugly side of her screaming and pressuring him to decide. Still have to work on his honesty badly.


quote:
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Did I do a good plan A? Am not sure, waiting for SAA book that I ordered maybe will get some clarity there.
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Why aren't you sure? What could you do better?

There are times when you are just human and you get hurt by what they say and how they think and react so I still get annoyed, LB if you can call it but only if he triggers it with a lie or lies which I explained to him so he's avoiding it at all costs, or it could also be that he's trying to outsmart me dunno which to believe now. What could I do better? I guess not get obssessed anymore and focus on myself more which means detaching a bit of my emotions so I don't LB and get hurt. I'm a bit apprehensive now about being this open for so much pain though I could see that he responds positively to LUs whenever I feel I'm going overboard.

Why do you want to move to Plan B? Give me your reasons.

Why because if the lies don't stop and if he can't decide to recommit what is there for me to do? i think the 180 turn is getting to be attractive in the sense that it jolts to them to reality that hey she might no longer be there if ever I don't stop this u know what I mean? I feel like I want to do tough love but also tell him that I need to do this for both of us - to save whatever love I have and for him to figure out if he can live without me. Sometimes I feel he's only here because of the comforts of home and his office is here in the house and he can't afford to get it disrupted. Being used maybe who knows? Although the times that he's cried I felt his complete sincerity. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

quote:
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So I reminded him again of the NC and of course during those moments when they're caught they would make all kinds of promises to appease you and the short memoried people that they are forgets it once everything is back to rosy and peaceful.
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Hang on...it's easy to be bitter (and of course, easy for me to suggest that you NOT be bitter ) but try not to think of it this way. It doesn't help.

He is caught in a web of his own lies and deceit, as much as you are. In fact, more than you. Because at least you can tell the difference once you know what to look for, once you see it in black and white.


quote:
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He expressed that he doesn't want to kill the love that I have for him.
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...and your response was?
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> am i sucker or what?

Okay...now the real work begins! What are you doing for yourself? How have you pampered yourself lately? What do you enjoy? Do you have good friends? Are you taking advantage of friends/family right now? NOT to talk about your R or the A but to get your mind off it as much as you can!!!

Promise I will take care of myself and not obsess about it but if I do that then I will probably not obsess about him too. Maybe that will be good .

Laughter is indeed the best cure for everything. Try to be with people who make you laugh.

Oh please I need that in my life right now sometimes we joke about the OW as I call her names that are funny and it makes me feel better. But no more mention of that as she doesn't deserve a space in here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have some concrete suggestions and a whole lot of questions for you today. First of all, lots of communication stuff...

1. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He said he was not the one contacting her but she's the one who's sending him emails so I asked him to close that account.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is that the truth? If so then how come...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One email from him that says "Love cannot be stopped" and I was like shocked that he said a few days after telling me that he was feeling in love with me again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SO? What specifically did you say to him? Did you tell him how reading this made you feel?

Tell me...maybe there's something else here we can work on.

2. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "...then why can't he tell you the truth? Have you asked him that? If so, what does he say?"

He tells me only when I catch him, but there are moments when he would volunteer the information about it was good that he was able to see the ugly side of her screaming and pressuring him to decide. Still have to work on his honesty badly. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay...he's not telling you the truth. You are catching him in lies. Not good.

But what does he SAY when you ask him why he can't tell you the truth? In other words, previously it was because you did not provide a safe listening environment. But now you are...right? (Are you?)

If so, then you can ask him: "honey, why do you feel you can't tell me when she contacts you?"

Do me a favour: ask him that. See what he says. Don't argue. Keep asking questions. Use mirroring ("so what you're saying is _________") until you are SURE you understand what he is saying. Then say you'll have to think about what he's told you.

Let's see what he has to say...

3. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He expressed that he doesn't want to kill the love that I have for him.

"...and your response was?"

am i sucker or what? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is that really what you said to him??? Again, tell me what you said...exactly if you can remember.

And now for a few suggestions...

5. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Don't know when they'll stay there permanently. It seems that everytime they fall my love bank is being withdrawn and afraid to wake up with a zero account for him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...and that's why Plan B. And I liked your answers about why you are considering going to B. But first...you have to do the best Plan A you can!

NO exceptions!!! That means no LBs. Yes...I know you are human. Yes...I know how hard it is. And yes...I unfortunately know exactly how much it all hurts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... so I still get annoyed, LB if you can call it but only if he triggers it with a lie or lies which I explained to him so he's avoiding it at all costs, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Get the LBs under control. Head over to recovery and take a look at Kiwi's thread. Are you convinced yet?

Now: how are you going to get them under control. Tell me your specific plan to do this.

6. Honesty is going to continue to be a problem between you (I have one of these units myself!). This habit of his (lying to you) can only change over a long period of time which is why YOU need to do some learning yourself...this is the NEW you...someone who does not LB, ever, because she has LEARNED that it accomplishes nothing for her R. She has learned to vent away from her guy, and then engage in healthy communication with him whenever there is conflict. WHENEVER there is conflict. For the rest of her life.

Everything you learn now will help you later. Truly...trust me on this one.

But...you didn't answer my question about counselling. The honesty issue is something that a good MC can help you with a lot. Also counselling will help with other issues your partner is facing.

7. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Promise I will take care of myself and not obsess about it but if I do that then I will probably not obsess about him too. Maybe that will be good . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No MAYBE about it! The less you obsess (easier said than done, I know...), the better off you are. Keep busy...keep sane. It helps...it helps a LOT.

I had people tell other people that knew me how HAPPY I was while I was in the midst of Plan A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I mean: they did not know about the A, or that I was doing Plan A...they simply happened to see me out and about, and then happened to tell other friends (out of town) how great I looked, that I seemed happier than I had in years, etc.

tee bloody hee I thought at the time...isn't that priceless??? Here I am disintegrating inside and they don't even notice! But it was great actually...because after a while, I really DID feel better about life, with or without him.

And my H also happened to think I was pretty infectious to be around, a lot more than the cow (cOW) was...the one nagging him to leave me for once and for all (she kept setting deadlines), who pouted that he wasn't spending enough time with her, who was jealous because she thought we were having sex, who was nagging him for details every day about what we'd done, what was said, etc.

So do it! Look for laughter, look for joy. It's GREAT for you and it makes you all the more attractive to him anyhow...okay...go do your homework now...awed

P.S. Have you read Pepperband's stuff? She does a great job of what to say to your H...respond to him while keeping your sanity...let me give it a whirl...

"He expressed that he doesn't want to kill the love that I have for him."

"Yeah hon...it must be really hard to feel like you are killing your love for me by continuing to see OW." Give him a sympathetic look, a kiss on the cheek, and walk away.

Wow...he'll be really confused then... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ February 10, 2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: awed18 ]</small>

1.
quote:
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He said he was not the one contacting her but she's the one who's sending him emails so I asked him to close that account.

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Is that the truth? If so then how come...

Don't know the answer to this one coz he deleted his Sent files so no way of telling but knowing him he doesn't like to do emails. Now that account is closed in front of my eyes.


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One email from him that says "Love cannot be stopped" and I was like shocked that he said a few days after telling me that he was feeling in love with me again.
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SO? What specifically did you say to him? Did you tell him how reading this made you feel? Of course told him that reading this really hurt me that she's still waiting on the wings and he must have encouraged it and course he denies it.

Tell me...maybe there's something else here we can work on.

I feel like how stupid of me to believe his words but after I got calmer I realized that their feelings waver to wanting us and not wanting us, On and Off so I told him that it did hurt me and that maybe he needed to be with her if that's how he feels. Of course he said "No I don't want to be with her, I can't even remember why I wrote that....yeah right" But the important thing is I tell her in a nice tone of voice that if he decides to be with her that I will not stand in the way the door is wide open and he can walk out of it but he always hugs me tight and doesn't want to let go" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

2.

But what does he SAY when you ask him why he can't tell you the truth? In other words, previously it was because you did not provide a safe listening environment. But now you are...right? (Are you?)

Maybe not because I still get worked up if I catch him lying like this emails so I reiterated to him that he can be honest with me and I will not react to it negatively...Oh God please give me miles and miles of patience!!!

If so, then you can ask him: "honey, why do you feel you can't tell me when she contacts you?"

Do me a favour: ask him that. See what he says. Don't argue. Keep asking questions. Use mirroring ("so what you're saying is _________") until you are SURE you understand what he is saying. Then say you'll have to think about what he's told you.

Let's see what he has to say... Will work hard on this, promise!

3.
quote:
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He expressed that he doesn't want to kill the love that I have for him.

"...and your response was?"

am i sucker or what?
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Is that really what you said to him??? Again, tell me what you said...exactly if you can remember.

Seriously, it was all tears and cries but I told him that he might kill it if he continues to lie and betray me some more and of course during that moment they wanted to believe that they will never do it again. Don't know lately it's been quiet but I notice him pulling away from me sometimes affection wise so don't really have a feel yet of what's going on when I leave for work. Am really tempted to monitor him.
And now for a few suggestions...

5.
quote:
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Don't know when they'll stay there permanently. It seems that everytime they fall my love bank is being withdrawn and afraid to wake up with a zero account for him.
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...and that's why Plan B. And I liked your answers about why you are considering going to B. But first...you have to do the best Plan A you can!

I promise to the best of my patience and resolve! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

NO exceptions!!! That means no LBs. Yes...I know you are human. Yes...I know how hard it is. And yes...I unfortunately know exactly how much it all hurts.


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... so I still get annoyed, LB if you can call it but only if he triggers it with a lie or lies which I explained to him so he's avoiding it at all costs,
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Get the LBs under control. Head over to recovery and take a look at Kiwi's thread. Are you convinced yet?

Now: how are you going to get them under control. Tell me your specific plan to do this.

Please need strong advise on this one as I am very emotional and passionate person. I feel like I'm gonna have a heart attack if I keep it to myself. HELP!!!

6. Honesty is going to continue to be a problem between you (I have one of these units myself!). This habit of his (lying to you) can only change over a long period of time which is why YOU need to do some learning yourself...this is the NEW you...someone who does not LB, ever, because she has LEARNED that it accomplishes nothing for her R. She has learned to vent away from her guy, and then engage in healthy communication with him whenever there is conflict. WHENEVER there is conflict. For the rest of her life.

Everything you learn now will help you later. Truly...trust me on this one.

But...you didn't answer my question about counselling. The honesty issue is something that a good MC can help you with a lot. Also counselling will help with other issues your partner is facing.

He went to it twice and it's more a financial situation than anything else right now, he said it helped him but he's not convinced.

7.
quote:
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Promise I will take care of myself and not obsess about it but if I do that then I will probably not obsess about him too. Maybe that will be good .
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No MAYBE about it! The less you obsess (easier said than done, I know...), the better off you are. Keep busy...keep sane. It helps...it helps a LOT.

I had people tell other people that knew me how HAPPY I was while I was in the midst of Plan A. I mean: they did not know about the A, or that I was doing Plan A...they simply happened to see me out and about, and then happened to tell other friends (out of town) how great I looked, that I seemed happier than I had in years, etc.

tee bloody hee I thought at the time...isn't that priceless??? Here I am disintegrating inside and they don't even notice! But it was great actually...because after a while, I really DID feel better about life, with or without him.

And my H also happened to think I was pretty infectious to be around, a lot more than the cow (cOW) was...the one nagging him to leave me for once and for all (she kept setting deadlines), who pouted that he wasn't spending enough time with her, who was jealous because she thought we were having sex, who was nagging him for details every day about what we'd done, what was said, etc.

So do it! Look for laughter, look for joy. It's GREAT for you and it makes you all the more attractive to him anyhow...okay...go do your homework now...awed

WOW, PRICELESS PRICELESS ADVICE!!! WILL DO THAT AND KEEP THAT IN MIND!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

P.S. Have you read Pepperband's stuff? She does a great job of what to say to your H...respond to him while keeping your sanity...let me give it a whirl...

"He expressed that he doesn't want to kill the love that I have for him."

"Yeah hon...it must be really hard to feel like you are killing your love for me by continuing to see OW." Give him a sympathetic look, a kiss on the cheek, and walk away.

Wow...he'll be really confused then... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> COOL, will look at her links.

One question , how do I deal with my VD blues???WHat if he didn't make any plans for us?

Two suggestions for reading...will post more later...

1. re: VD...honestly? Just put it right out of your head...it's a hallmark card holiday...doesn't mean ANYTHING...let it go.

Go read JL's response to Stung by a Bee...in my opinion, he's dead on...and I think it might help you "get" inside your guy's head to hear it from his perspective.

valentine's day and why it should simply be ignored

2. Read the comm. stuff I posted yesterday on GQ II..."psst...secret to success" etc. I've posted it for a lot of folks to think on...good good good ideas for helping you dig deeper into yourself to find patience (aka keep the communication moving forward) during conflict.

All conflict resolution deals with increasing understanding and reducing tension.

You CAN do this...keep it in mind. It is not some unattainable level...it will HELP you...

I'm going to post something later for sohard but I was thinking of you too...it's a great book I'm reading right now. It goes beyond communication into actually changing your perspective.

Why? Okay...I'll explain that later too. I've got to have the book in front of me to do it justice though (and remember the title!)

more later...awed

<small>[ February 12, 2004, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: awed18 ]</small>