Believer -

Right on!!! You are where I hope to be in 3 more months. I see glimmers of that every day. Some days for 10 minutes, sometimes for half a day!

I have not lost myself. He has lost himself. I am who I have always been. And I look better than ever, with the 30 pound weight loss. I feel confident: both that I am his true love when he gets out of the fog, and if he never does that I can move on and have a happy life.

It would be a different story for me if he came knocking right now, though. You have grown so much, come so far, and you are an inspiration to everyone here. I truly believe that when I can totally let my WH go, he will then come back to me. He is in the fog, he has ego, and he doesn't want to be wrong. But we have a great counseling system set up, he has agreed to go (his mother told me today that if he stops going, to tell her and she will make it happen), and I have found this great site.

Thank you for having a special interest in me, Believer. You have been the one to repond to me consistently, and I cannot tell you how great and special that makes me feel.

You are at the place you need to be with you WH. I believe that. It seems right to me where you are and where he is. Wouldn't it be cool if in 6 months he is a FWH posting here helping us all out? Describing the fog and everything? I have read a lot of posts by [H], and they are so comforting. Keep praying for guidance. God will let you know what He wants you to do. You are in my prayers every night.

Love, Amy

amy maree -

I think things will get better and better for you. The MB program and support really works. When I first was going through all this, I felt like nothing would ever be good again. But all of that changed.

Just keep working on yourself. That is what helps the most. Get busy with different projects. You need to take care of yourself physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Just realize that WH is temporarily unable to be of any help to you right now.

It's also good that you have some family support. My H has been very depressed. He got medicine for it, but his sister told him not to take it. She tells him that anti-depressants are not good to take.

Your boys will do alright through this if you can remain strong, and make them feel secure. Keep them involved in activities - scouts is good, and also sports.

So anyway just keep on with the program. It does work and soon you will be feeling better and better. Come here for support and everyone here will keep you on the right path, just like they did for me.

You are so right, early bird! I am working on myself, keeping busy with projects, finally working on my business - I know that is going to pick up soon. I have given out so many cards by request! I only need 3-4 more clients and I will be full. I don't keep cutting the same fingers week after week trying to chop and cry and think. I find now I am focused when I work, and it goes so much smoother.

My only issue with keeping the boys in Scouts, is that the OW's son is in WH patrol. So each week he sees her, she camps with them - she is a single mom and loves doing outdoors stuff and her son's dad doesn't live in this state. So, each time he sees her, talks to her, we are back to square one with withdrawl. I am tempted to tell the Scouts, so that their secret is in the open and one of them will be forced to leave. I am going to consult with our MT and my IC about that. I am on the fence about it. I did tell one of the co-leaders (WH is a leader) that he had an affair, and I hinted that it was someone in the Troop, but I don't think this lady figured it out. I am just not ready yet - maybe it is the Holy Spirit letting me know that it is not the right time.

I am eating again, sleeping again, taking my meds, exercising at my gym again, and joining the church my boys and I have been attending off and on for the past year. The boys and I are going to be baptized in May - a first for all three of us.

Poor WH is missing out on so much great stuff in my life! Oh well. Hopefully he can pull himself up by his bootstraps and join us soon, because the train is pulling out! We are moving on! We are done being sad about his poor choices. And I am not owning any of them anymore. He can carry that burden all by himself. Because no matter what was going on in our marriage, he had no business having an A. That is his only.

The NC suggested by the MT has done wonders for me. I think I am finally getting over my withdrawl from WH! I still love him, but that love is now safely tucked away behind the emotional detatchment I know I need to create to make it through this. I am such a sensitive person, my heart aches when he talks to me. I can honestly hardly even look at him right now because I have lost all respect for him.

I am glad you are doing so well, that his actions are no longer making you feel off-balance. You are truly flying by your instrument panel! Good girl. Chat at you later. I am going to check out what is going on this Valentine's Day.

Love, Amy

Amy -

Yes, the troop will have to be split up somehow. I would say to do it now, but let's think on it. The only reason I hesitate because of your boys. There has to be a way to do it discretely, so they don't have to listen to gossip.

I was just like you. After NC I couldn't stand to look at his lying eyes. He disgusted me. Then after more time in Plan B, I started remembering happier times. Now I have more compassion for him. But don't worry, not enough to let him move back in.

I got up early and cleaned the house already. Next I am going to do some painting. After that who knows? The neighborhood kids want to go fishing again. This would be the third Saturday in a row.

Have a good day, and stay on the train.

Yes, the Troop question is high on my priority list of questions for the Counselors. I too am thinking about the boys. WH says that him staying with that Troop, and her staying as well, is about the boys, not them. But he doesn't realize what I do about their relationship. He has tried to convince me that they are now "just friends." Hopefully he is being more honest with himself, but I doubt it.

Anyway, I am heading off to Pilates soon. Have a great time fishing! It is dismal and gray here today, and cold. But my boys come home at noon, and I can't wait to hug them.

Amy

Hi, welcome, and yes, the "I don't think I ever loved you" sounds very familiar. Very. It's what the WSs say when they are fogged in.

(How do you like the pilates classes? I think it's excellent that you're doing them.)

I wouldn't worry about posting here too much. When I first found out,and for a long time after, I practically lived on these boards.

Is your house large enough to take in a boarder, someone to help with the costs? If so, maybe you could contact a local college and see if there's a female coed looking for a room.

Failing that, the airlines may be a help. A flight attendant may want to rent a room in your home, and they aren't around much. They are reliable and pleasant company when they are there.

You could go to the local airport, post an ad on the bulletin board in the staff break room. Of course, with either option, you'd want to check references on the people you talk to, and make sure they are not troubled, lost souls. In your position you don't need to take on any disturbed, needy people.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Oh, and don't let your H tell you you're crazy. I mean, you could be, who knows, but many people lose it while they are dealing with the WS. It's only temporary. Unless he's a shrink, he's not competent to diagnose you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

No, my house is not large enough to take on a boarder. I will keep my house, no matter what. I'm not too worried about that. I am worried that my WH is never going to come out of the fog. He is creeping me out with his total personality change.

Some days I am OK with it, but today it is really bothering me. He keeps telling my boys that even if we don't get back together, we both still love them. I tell them that, too, but it seems like he tells them that every weekend.

I wish he would just shut up! Grrrrrrr. Sorry. I am feeling angry today. I think I need to take another anti-anxiety pill today. Why does he have to be making this so difficult?!?!

Give me some informaion about yourself, Bellevue. Your member number is old. You are a survivor. Did your M survive? I guess I need people to tell me I am doing the right thing, and that he eventually will come out of the fog. Right now I despair.

Love, Amy

Amy Maree:

You are saying some VERY familiar things to me. My wife is also creeping me and many of my friends out with her total personality change. How so for your WH? My WS is now living like it is all about her. Nothing else matters. How she inconveniences everyone doesn't matter. How she is hurting our children doesn't really matter. How she has completely tuned out my entire family doesn't really matter to her.

Your next statement about how your WH says that you and he will always love the kids, even if you don't get back together is also something I hear from WS regularly. She has even become angry at me on several occasions for telling the kids that I do want us to be together as a family again.

Go figure. Fog is the word for our spouses.

You are in my prayers.

Shaken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amy Maree:
<strong> I am worried that my WH is never going to come out of the fog. He is creeping me out with his total personality change.

Some days I am OK with it, but today it is really bothering me. He keeps telling my boys that even if we don't get back together, we both still love them. I tell them that, too, but it seems like he tells them that every weekend.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Shaken bns -

Some of the other things he is saying is of course that he never loved me, we were married too young, and he, for one, married me for all the wrong reasons. He told the MT that the reason he was there with me was to make our divorce go smoother. I guess I should have hope that he is even there at all!

Has your WW moved out? My WH has. He claims him and OW are just friends now, but Dr. Harley says they want to move out to continue their A in private. I know they are still having their EA, but right now there is nothing I can do, because he just considers that "honest communication between friends. There is nothing wrong with that." Blah blah blah fogese!

Anyway, thanks for posting. Tell me the short version of your story, or tell me which thread it is on and I'll check it out!

Amy

Oh, and Bellevue, the pilates are great! I also do yoga. I enjoy cardio, like step and kickboxing and the elliptical trainer. And I am getting strong enough to do those again. But for a while, yoga and pilates was all I could do, because I was weak from not being able to eat.

30 pounds in 6 weeks is not good. But I am eating again and taking care of myself. My appetite has come back. That is one reason I know how stressful this whole thing has been, because I have never lost weight like that before. I have never lost my appetite like that before. Only for short periods of time, like the flu!

Anyway, I forgot to mention that in my last post. I highly recommend both pilates and yoga. It helps keep everything stretched out, expecially if you exercise hard in other areas. My hips get so tight, that without yoga I have to go to a Physical Therapist. So, I keep with the yoga, no matter what.

And pilates makes the core so strong - stomach AND back. People don't realize how weak their backs are. Everyone focuses on the abs, wanting a flat belly. Meanwhile, the back does most of the support work, all day, every day! OK, I am off my soapbox. These two forms of exercise are not easy. But they are challenging physically, and they focus the brain.

Amy

Amy Maree:

Please don't believe everything your husband is saying. In this state, most of what they say is not true, or the truth is very much stretched.

My wife has told me she hates me (last January), she has said she married me for my family and to make her ex-boyfriend jealous (love for me was a distant third), and that sort of thing. Our spouses say these things because they have to somehow justify their wrong actions and activities. It is like squezzing blood from a stone - they will do whatever they can to do this.

It was actually me who moved out in late July. I had lived on the couch for 9 months and could no longer take the rejection. Wife closed her heart to me in September 2002 and has not opened it since. Main reason I moved out is that I wanted to make it as easy for my four children as possible.

Don't know for sure my wife is having an EA or PA, but she is on contraceptives and I've had a vasectomy, so...

Keep loving your husband, but don't show him your life revolves around his every word or action. It took me 3-4 months to be able to detatch sufficiently. Now, I have lost 25 pounds, have received an executive-level position, have bought some new clothes and, frankly, know I will be ready to make a new life for myself soon if I have to.

God bless,

Shaken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amy Maree:
<strong> Shaken bns -

Some of the other things he is saying is of course that he never loved me, we were married too young, and he, for one, married me for all the wrong reasons. He told the MT that the reason he was there with me was to make our divorce go smoother. I guess I should have hope that he is even there at all!

Has your WW moved out? My WH has. He claims him and OW are just friends now, but Dr. Harley says they want to move out to continue their A in private. I know they are still having their EA, but right now there is nothing I can do, because he just considers that "honest communication between friends. There is nothing wrong with that." Blah blah blah fogese!

Anyway, thanks for posting. Tell me the short version of your story, or tell me which thread it is on and I'll check it out!

Amy </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I am not doing so good today. For the past couple of weeks, I keep waking up at 3 or 4 or 5 in the morning, and cannot go back to sleep. I am getting enough rest, but the times I can't sleep is because my brain won't turn off.

I am so sad that I have lost such a special person in my life. And there is a chance I can never get him back no matter what I do. He is my best friend, the father of my children, the one I trusted with my heart and the most sacred parts of me.

Now, not only has all that been betrayed, he is not interested in saving what is left of our marriage and rebuilding. He tells my boys I am "an awesome person," just not who he wants to be with anymore.

Part of me wants to just run away. Let him have the boys, the house, everything. Let him build his life with whomever he feels is right for him now. I feel like I cannot take any more rejection from him. My mind says it is fog-speak, but my heart is breaking more each day, I think.

Mostly I am strong, but today I feel like a scared little girl. I guess I am having a pity-party for myself. I am going to go back and lay under my electric blanket. At least the outside of my body can feel warm and cozy, because the inside feels empty and barren and cold. I miss him so badly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amy Maree:
<strong> I am not doing so good today. For the past couple of weeks, I keep waking up at 3 or 4 or 5 in the morning, and cannot go back to sleep. I am getting enough rest, but the times I can't sleep is because my brain won't turn off.

Me too.

I am so sad that I have lost such a special person in my life. And there is a chance I can never get him back no matter what I do. He is my best friend, the father of my children, the one I trusted with my heart and the most sacred parts of me.

Yes, there is a chance neither you nor me will get him/her back into our life, no matter what we try or do. I have read just about every marriage and relationship book on the market, I have tried to meet her needs from a distance, I have tried to open up and share my heart with her, etc., but it comes down to one thing: our spouses must determine for themselves that coming back to the marriage is an act of the will. Love is a decision. Love is a choice. Love is never, and had never been, a feeling.

Part of me wants to just run away. Let him have the boys, the house, everything. Let him build his life with whomever he feels is right for him now. I feel like I cannot take any more rejection from him. My mind says it is fog-speak, but my heart is breaking more each day, I think.

I think about running away regularly. Only my love for my children keeps me connected,

Take care of yourself.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Yeah, I guess we are all in the same boat. I was reading through some of our old letters today - I know, bad idea. But I did it.

You see, he was in the military, and gone so much of the time. We have hundreds of letters and cards. And each of them says the same thing to me - that he will always love me, always appreciate me when I am there with him, always miss me when we are apart, and he will never let me go because I am the best thing that ever happened to him.

And I believed all of those things, 100%. I thought the only way I would lose him was if he died. And now he doesn't even remember ever loving me - he was just tricking himself, because he was afraid he couldn't get another woman, and he wouldn't ever let the first one (me) go. Now he knows he can get other women, becuase he had my "best friend (she thought she was in love with him, too, by the way, and probably still does)."

The A was bad enough. Then to not even know if he wants to come back to me and the kids is killing me. Today it is. I was OK yesterday, and I'll probably be OK tomorrow. Today sucks.

Chat at you later. I am going to finish my MT homework. Thanks for your time.

Amy

Sorry, my last post was in bold, like Amy Maree's. I have written mine below in italics, to make it easier to read.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Shaken but not stirred:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amy Maree:
<strong> I am not doing so good today. For the past couple of weeks, I keep waking up at 3 or 4 or 5 in the morning, and cannot go back to sleep. I am getting enough rest, but the times I can't sleep is because my brain won't turn off.

Me too

I am so sad that I have lost such a special person in my life. And there is a chance I can never get him back no matter what I do. He is my best friend, the father of my children, the one I trusted with my heart and the most sacred parts of me.

Yes, there is a chance neither you nor me will get him/her back into our life, no matter what we try or do. I have read just about every marriage and relationship book on the market, I have tried to meet her needs from a distance, I have tried to open up and share my heart with her, etc., but it comes down to one thing: our spouses must determine for themselves that coming back to the marriage is an act of the will. Love is a decision. Love is a choice. Love is never, and had never been, a feeling

Part of me wants to just run away. Let him have the boys, the house, everything. Let him build his life with whomever he feels is right for him now. I feel like I cannot take any more rejection from him. My mind says it is fog-speak, but my heart is breaking more each day, I think.

I think about running away regularly. Only my love for my children keeps me connected
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<strong> No, my house is not large enough to take on a boarder. I will keep my house, no matter what. I'm not too worried about that. I am worried that my WH is never going to come out of the fog. He is creeping me out with his total personality change.

Some days I am OK with it, but today it is really bothering me. He keeps telling my boys that even if we don't get back together, we both still love them. I tell them that, too, but it seems like he tells them that every weekend.

I wish he would just shut up! Grrrrrrr. Sorry. I am feeling angry today. I think I need to take another anti-anxiety pill today. Why does he have to be making this so difficult?!?!

Give me some informaion about yourself, Bellevue. Your member number is old. You are a survivor. Did your M survive? I guess I need people to tell me I am doing the right thing, and that he eventually will come out of the fog. Right now I despair.

Love, Amy </strong>[/QUOTE]

Hmm, we are still married. But the damage to our marriage is permanent. My H still contacts the OW, who is working at another place now. Their "relationship" has gone on for about 8 years now. At first it was "BestFriends" and our families did some things together. Gradually he and she became the spoke at the center of the friendship wheel. I was somewhere out on the far edge. As they became closer, he and I grew further apart.

If you have nothing but time, go look up my old posts. I was an open walking, bleeding wound. I really do know the pain you are experiencing. I went on the betrayed spouse's diet also, became quite thin. (Not thin now, though.)

Last year a series of incidents chipped and ticked away at me, but I wasn't so horribly emotional any more. Zoloft, you know. I assessed my life, planned out details, and hired a very good attorney.

Wrote him a letter, left it in his glovebox, asking where he would prefer to receive service of D papers. Home or work. He called, came home, talked about the harm a D would do to our son, who has special needs. I responded that i had thought long and hard about that, because I knew firsthand from growing up with divorces and poverty and neglect, about long term effects on a child. But that even knowing all of this, I needed to split, that I couldn't take the constant coldness and cruelty.

He begged me to think it over, and even offered that I could talk to his mother who is very wise and kind. I did not talk to her. SHe is elderly and frail, and has spent a lot of time in hospital. I don't want to burden her and didn't want to talk to her. I didn't want to be feeling responsible if suddenly her heart gave out. Not to be redundant, but she is extremely frail.

I agreed to wait awhile, and asked him to do research on the phenomenon of Emotional Affairs. In the 30 days from the leaving of the letter in his glovebox and until our next "heavy" discussion, I lost my momentum. In the 30 days he began behaving better, actually looking me in the eyes when speaking, calling to let me know when he was leaving the office,

it was enough to make me stop feeling loathesome.

He still has contact with her. But he's very sneaky and discrete about it.

I monitor things, discretely, and take my zoloft, and sleep in the guest room. I develop friendships with other women, avoid any situation where I might be tempted to fish for compliments from an attractive man, and do the SAHM Mom-Taxi thing.

In the back of my mind I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I believe when our son graduates high school and goes to college, he will again tell me he wants to move out, live on his own, etc.

Yes, we're still married, but emotionally divorced. When I see our acquaintances who have divorced, their children aren't doing so good. We don't fight, we have a sit down dinner every night, we work together to bring our son up and see that he can play sports, go to school events, and get his teeth straightened. We help him study, take him to age appropriate entertainments, and yesterday we had a rock climbing birthday party for him and his friends.

It isn't perfect, but he's stopped flaunting the OW in my face.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amy Maree:
<strong> Oh, and Bellevue, the pilates are great! I also do yoga. I enjoy cardio, like step and kickboxing and the elliptical trainer. And I am getting strong enough to do those again. But for a while, yoga and pilates was all I could do, because I was weak from not being able to eat.

30 pounds in 6 weeks is not good. But I am eating again and taking care of myself. My appetite has come back. That is one reason I know how stressful this whole thing has been, because I have never lost weight like that before. I have never lost my appetite like that before. Only for short periods of time, like the flu!

Anyway, I forgot to mention that in my last post. I highly recommend both pilates and yoga. It helps keep everything stretched out, expecially if you exercise hard in other areas. My hips get so tight, that without yoga I have to go to a Physical Therapist. So, I keep with the yoga, no matter what.

And pilates makes the core so strong - stomach AND back. People don't realize how weak their backs are. Everyone focuses on the abs, wanting a flat belly. Meanwhile, the back does most of the support work, all day, every day! OK, I am off my soapbox. These two forms of exercise are not easy. But they are challenging physically, and they focus the brain.

Amy </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just joined Curves for Women. Lost 8 inches! I'd like to add Pilates, just haven't gotten around to finding a convenient studio.

Wow Belle, I don't know what to think about your story. You see, the OW and I were supposedly "best friends," and now he and her are. I certainly do not want to think about him continuing on with her in that manner! Even emotionally. I couldn't.

I knew he was having the EA before I found proof. I could tell by the distance in his eyes, and the coldness of his voice. I know I personally cannot live like that. My children would be better off if we got the D. I believe I am too selfish, proud, and . . . just too everything to share like that.

You are a strong woman. I believe I will go read through some of your old posts.

I am feeling better now. Just lathargic, but I am not sobbing anymore. I truly do not believe that he will give me up forever, but I not have confidence in his decision-making abilities at this juncture in his life. I'm afraid he will take this too far, beyond repair, and then realize. I wish I could wave my wand over his head and clear away the fog and see the man I know and miss so dearly looking back at me.

Only time will tell. Patience is one of the few things the Lord will not grant you if you pray for it. It is something that must be learned.

This is my second experience learning patience. My first was waiting for my first son to be born. I was so ready for him to come! So impatient! Then I wasn't ready for the second to come (12 months and 12 days later!). God probably thinks, "That woman is never happy!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Chat at you later.

Amy

amymaree -

Hang in there. Things go up and down. Your post on flying by the instruments has been very helpful. I have sent it to tons of people.

Don't worry about things now. Just stick with the plan. I am afraid my H has gone beyond what I can ever forgive. However I am still here, walking the path. You can do the same.

Believer, I am hanging in there. I didn't contact him today or anything crazy. I am just so sad that he let himself get to this sorry state. I am so sad about myself and my kids, and how hurt we have all been. And WH's inability to have a clue about any of it. When/if he comes out of the fog, I don't know how he will cope with the damage he has dealt.

He has always prided himself on taking care of us - financially and emotionally and physically. He will be devastated. I really think that is why he is where he is right now, because I think it is too much for him to bear.

He might never come back to us, because he sees it as the only way he knows how to protect us from this hurt again - to never let himself near us again. Deep down, I think that is his rationale sometimes.

I don't know. All I do know is that today sucked, and I am hoping for a better tomorrow.

Thanks for checking in on me. Sorry your WH is such a fogged-in schmuck right now. The only one who can fix any of this is the Lord, and He will let you know if your Divine Path of Happiness lies elsewhere.

Because some day soon you will be happy again, Believer. I can feel it coming for you. You have walked through the fire and made it to the other side, and something is waiting for you here. I hope you feel excited about that. You have earned it. :-)

Love, Amy