Bellevue, I know what you mean about waiting for the other shoe to drop. With hindsight I now see that my WW was waiting for our son to get past his drug addiction and into some meaning full adult life.

Once that happened she took the first opportunity to go to Splitsville.

Prepare yourself.

You guys are freaking me out more. I don't want to believe this is an exit affair. I am trying to keep my hope alive. I am the only one who has any.

I need to stay positive.

Dear Amy Maree

You sound like you need some hope there. I drop in occassionally and lurk. Don't often post these days.

Just wanted to let you know that my H and I have been in recovery for over two years since his A with my former best friend.

It was a rollercoaster, but don't give up hope. Recovery does happen. There are a lot of similarities in your situation, except that I was clearly a little more naive than you in that I didn't see it coming, nor did I catch on quickly to what was going on. Of course looking back it was easy to see what I had not seen before.

Hang in there. Many people have recovered their marriages. Try the recovery board for some inspiration to keep going, although a lot of the posters who inspired me like Twyla don't seem to be around so much anymore.

It is easy to get negative when you hear about other spouses relapses etc.. try to focus on your H. Because others relapse or continue deception etc.. doesn't mean this will happen to you. You are obviously pretty perceptive and worked it out this time. If you recover you will know again.

For now continue with plan A if that is your current plan.

regards
C&S

CS -

Did your WH re-write your past and say that he never thought he loved you, ever? My WH has that thought so firmly stuck in his head, I am wondering if it will ever go away. I know, fogese, but I doubt myself sometimes.

They are his feelings and thoughts, after all, not mine. Maybe our 15 years together were a huge mistake for us both. I feel like a fool sometimes, hanging in there, even when he actively tells me that I shouldn't, that there is nothing to save, because he for one married me for all the wrong reasons.

I don't know. I am hoping to pull myself out of this funk soon. I have been taking my meds. I just got over my "woman-cycle," so I don't think it is hormones. But I just can't shake this feeling of sadness and that this is all too much to overcome.

Maybe I'll check out some of your old posts. How do I do that if I wanted to? I tried last night with Belle, but I didn't get too far. Of course, I wasn't motivated to do much yesterday. My poor kids had soup and leftovers at lunch, and macaroni and cheese for dinner. I seriously need to get motivated.

I did get my hair done, and I have been exercising. And launching my own business. I have just kind-of hit a sadness wall, I guess.

Chat at you later.

Amy

Amy Maree
Yes he did rewrite history. In fact he said a lot of things that he now can't believe he said. In fact I don't think he even knows half of what was said. A lot of it contradicted what he had said before.

HIs feelings changed like the wind, from not loving me and loving her, to loving me and never loving her. In some ways I think that they almost are trying to rationalise their actions and have to try to convince themselves that they don't love their spouse to try and understand their actions.

I also think that to diminish their guilt, by blaming us, or deciding that they never felt love for us that then that is an explanation in their confused minds for what they are doing. It is better to blame us than to look at themselves.

Listen to them, just don't believe that what they are feeling is truly how they feel. It is what they are feeling right now, and they are very confused [B][/B]

Your own words from a prior post.

I for one was pretty confused myself. One minute I couldn't live without him. The I wanted to kill him. Then I felt sorry for him. Then hated OW then felt sorrow at losing friend. My feelings changed like the wind too. I think it was in a book called After the Affair (I think author was Janice Springfield, but I can't be sure) I read about normal reactions and it explained a lot of both mine and his reactions. I was big in the ambivalence and obsession departments. I still have to fight the urge to obsess about it. I try not to let my mind go there too much now as I can get myself in a funk pretty quickly.

Another good book is Torn Asunder. It also explains a lot especially about anger. Tough Love is also a good read, but is probably more in keeping with a plan B approach. I saw that you are already doing some reading. I have read lots and that helped me heaps. Not just on affairs, but also on things to help my self esteem etc...

I am now a much stronger person and I think more compassionate than before.

My husband told me that he never thought about the fact that he may lose me. He just presumed that I would always be here. It wasn't until he really thought he was going to lose me that he realised that she meant little. I think he was more astonished at that than I was. I asked him to leave after the second Dday which was when the OW rang and informed me of the full extent of the affair. He had been minimising the details. So I didn't start with MB principles. I found this site soon after. And guess I implemented plan A.

I found it best not to try and argue when he was expressing feelings. It is better to listen as then you hear more of what is going on in their mind. I did not try and rationalise or change his mind. I guess I was at a stage where I realised I had been living in a bit of a fantasy world and wanted as much of the reality to sink in as possible so I knew where I stood.

I am no counselor and there a re wonderful people here who are so much better with advice than me. I just want to give you hope.

C&S

C&S -

Thank you! I actually have to go pick up my copies of Torn Asunder and Not Just Friends at Barnes and Noble today. I had them ordered. I did order Tough Love, but it never came in. Hmmmm, I'll have to ask them about that today.

I have read 1/2 of After the Affair, and it has given me a lot of insight into WH's brain. But I am to the point now where there are exercises to be done by both of us, and he is not willing. He is convinced D is the only possibility, because so much damage has been done, and because he now realizes he never loved me.

Our next MT appointment is Wednesday. We had an assignment. "Write about what worked in your marriage and what didn't." I have written this about 3 times, and still I am not happy with it. I normally do not have problem with the written word, but this assignment alludes me. Very curious. I have not figured out why this is so difficult for me.

Part of it is because I am not sure if I am supposed to write about what obviously was not working since my H had an A; OR what I thought wasn't working before the A. Hmmmmmmm. I have debated calling her to ask for clarification. Maybe I will do that today.

I agree with what you said about them justifying what they have done by re-writing history. I guess it has been wearing on me. I never thought I would hear such a thing from him, and it has just blown me out of the water. Hopefully, it is something we can look back on and chuckle about in 5-35 years. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you C&S. I did need to hear all of the things you have shared with me this morning. I appreciate your time. You have given me the gift of hope, and not just anyone is capable of doing that for me anymore, in my new circumstances.

So, I'll just fly by my instrument panel for the next 6 months, and hope the chemicals in his brain wear off.

Lots of love! Amy

PS - Where are you coming from? I noticed certain spelling styles and such that suggest maybe you do not live on, or are not from my, continent of North America.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amy Maree:
[QB] Wow Belle, I don't know what to think about your story. You see, the OW and I were supposedly "best friends," and now he and her are. I certainly do not want to think about him continuing on with her in that manner! Even emotionally. I couldn't.

I knew he was having the EA before I found proof. I could tell by the distance in his eyes, and the coldness of his voice. [QUOTE] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nothing wrong with pride. It's part of the self-respect package that makes you worthy of love.

And the distance in his eyes, coldness in his voice, yep, those clued me in too to the EA. I confronted him various times, he denied, reassured me, and over time finally began to rewrite in his mind, our courtship and love affair and marriage.

I understand very well the shock of realizing that your spouse is unfaithful.

Here's my opinion: If you successfully follow Plan A and if need be Plan B, and if he completely breaks off all contact with the OW, and if you get into MC (hopefully with someone who follows the Harley Plan) he will come out of the fog. If he moves back in, and has no contact with the OW, you have a good chance of recovering.

My H acts like a good husband, but trust is just not there any more. That doesn't mean YOU and your H can't recover and rebuild. Just have a Plan, and Plan A and Plan B have worked for other couples.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

We are in MC, I call it MT (Marital Therapy). We have our second appointment Wed. The MT told us to only contact this week through email, only about business (kids, finances, etc.), because in all other cases we fight.

I am not capable right now of Plan A. I tried, but he won't open up to me, and that makes me mad.

He still talks to the OW, on the phone, and on email, but he says it isn't constant contact anymore (since he moved out). I think the OW was a little freaked out that he had a mental breakdown and was in a half-way house for 5 days, and that he confessed the PA to me without telling her first. She felt "betrayed."

My WH and I are very involved in the community here, and I have been involved much with the schools in the area. I know many people. OW has panicked about me telling everyone what they have done.

Supposedly, OW is dating an old boyfriend. I don't buy it, though. Dr. Harley says WS move out to continue the A, and mine moved out. Why would she back off now? She still doesn't think she did anything wrong - she's not married. Dumb.

I think all of the uncertainty about what is going on with them now, what has gone on with them in the past, is making it so I cannot do Plan A. I need some truth, so I can make educated decisions about what I want to do with my life, for myself. I am tired of him witholding information and expecting me to "trust" him, that he has told me all the important information.

But he is not willing, and I am unable, so we are in a horrible holding pattern. We'll see what the MT says on Wed.

Thanks for everything. All I can do is pray.

Love, Amy

Hi there AmY!

I guess you didn't see my whole story. My husband went through the fog phase also. the day after he revealed the affair to me. I went crazy...I told him that I wanted to die, and I was going to kill myself and that he should be ashamed that he would take my mother's only daughter and my death would be because of him. (Yes I am very dramatic.. I turned it on him that night) I also told him there was no more hope in this marriage and that I needed time. ... and the morning .. he left for work....I did enough LB's during the night leaving him in PAIN! I thought I was doing something good, but Ineeded to get things out of my chest, and I did.

The next day...since he had dropped me off his parents house... because I didn't feel secure to sleep with him under the roof, I called his parents to tell them.
The next day.....I felt bad about all I said.. and I just wanted to understand... it's funny how we can switch.. then he it was his turn.. He didn't come to pick me up from his parents house and told me I would be better off there. I begged him to come and pick me up. He called his mom and told her he told the OW that he was married and that he was having and affair and that he was sorry to do that to her.. and that he hopes she can forgive him... (the dream end of the affair) WRONG... he came home 2 days later to pick me up. I turned to some of my friends in the state to talk to me. I need support. SOme told me to pack up and go home, some wanted to talk to him because they know I can be mean also.
Finally he came and picked me up, but he was cold and distant.. but I was warm...and wanted to hold his hand. Then I went inside the shower..and I wanted to talk to him and told him that I still love him and that we have to work it out. He told me the OW responded perfectly to the situation, and that she was nice.. and accepting, and she was the perfect women for him. She isn't as smart or pretty as you, but that is what I deserve. Then he turn around and told me that .. "YOu're still in school, everything is wrong in our relationship, we can't be together. " Then he said.. we gonna go home, but I still want OW as a friend. I said "absolutely no". And I would not to turn back home with him. YES THE FOG IS TERRIBLE! I was feeling so bad.. there was not one hair in my body that wasn't standing up.. I was angry, hurt, mad....and just gone crazy. I kept my cool.. and said that I wouldn't say anything bad. But then he said he need time to make a decision. I told him "I AM YOUR WIFE, THERE WILL BE NO DECISION MADE, IF YOU HAVE TO MAKE ONE SOMETHING ISN"T RIGHT." His parents were witness of all this. Then he begged me to go back home with him. I wouldn't. He picked up MAD and left for his car. I went outside.. he told me to get in...and we would talk. He tried to make deals with me. I just didn't say anything. If we were going to solve anything we weren't going to do by me being at his parent's house. SO I got my stuff and went back home. I tried to smile and Ikeep reading and reading reading this site... I learned about Plan A and I showed it to him. I told him he had to say goodbye to her. He wouldn't do it. It went on for two weeks, I finally ordered my airplane tickets to leave, he gave me my money to leave. I built the strenght up inside myself to eat, sleep, and be fresh to go back home because my mom would do things that I donot want to mention. Anyways to make such a long story short, he came inside the bathroom, begging me to stay..with his shirt, shoes.. everything while I was taking a shower. He still didn't get rid of the OW. I still see her msgs telling him how much he was missed and how much she loved him.

That week, I took initiative within myself to see what was going on. I contacted the OW, and told her what was going on. she apologized to me and said this would stop. We go back and fort with several emails.. and that was that.

He was raging mad at me. EVERYTHING was blue.. and my birthday..was terrible. It has been 2 weeks and half since the OW has not been contacted, because she begged him to contact her, but he is now planning to maybe move with me to make me feel more secure about our relationship. But I am not.. not now.. We're both slowly healing. We have a good time, and more intimacy.. so yeah... anyways... Things are getting better..

I just wanted to write this to give you some hope maybe..since you were losing.. and hope keeps us all alive. I don't want to give you false ones either because that wouldn't help. Not every A is the same not everyone is the same.. but I think I might pull through it. Your H might come back and he may not, but you are working towards something right now at least. And the whole point of this..no matter what happens, you will be strong afterwards.

Big hugs,
Tam

Hi Amy Maree

Yes. You are very perceptive. I am sure that you would definitely know if something was going on.

I am from Australia. What gave it away? Not that I am hiding it or anything. In fact when I first posted here I mentioned a few cities in Australia. I did live over there in Charleston SC for a couple of years 1990 - 1992 and traveled all over the place. I had a ball. I also visited again in 2001. In fact it was the week after that visit that I discovered affair.

I have just moved back to Sydney from Canberra. I grew up here. Things are good with my H now, but I am a little nervous as the OW lives in Sydney. But I am sure that there is no contact and he shows no sign of going in that direction again. I have absolutely no contact with my former friend and she does not know I am here. It is sad though because I missed her and always looked forward to moving back here to be able to spend more time with her again, rather than just on visits. However, as my true friends remind me, she was not a true friend. I wish I hated her like so many other BS here hate the OW. Sure I am mighty mad with her, but my history with her goes back to childhood. As hurtful as it was her ringing me with the full details of their affair probably saved my marriage, as my H initially was trying to minimise the length and involvement level of the affair. After that incident he opened up with the full story and told me the truth, even when he knew it was stuff that would be hurtful. I don't think we could have recovered if I hadn't had the full truth.

So as you can see, my H tried also to deny the EA part, or at least the true extent of it at first. My counselor told me part of that was to avoid hurting me more than he already had. I think it was also trying to save face a bit.

It is not recommended here to call or contact the OW. In my case she contacted me. She told me it was to hurt him as she had thought that omce I knew that he would go to her and felt betrayed.
However I am thankful for that call. But boy some of the stuff she told me hurt like hell.

Now, your homework. I am no counselor, but I think it probably means both. ie mainly what was right and wrong before the A. And I guess a bit of what is right and wrong now. I think I would look at what I thought I was doing right or wrong, as well as what I was getting out of the relationship and was missing.Hard as it is to admit it, none of us have perfect marriages. If we did, I guess As might not happen. It is not our fault that our Hs chose A, but it is a good time to examine the marriage. I eventually saw hope in maybe having what I had wanted ie a more loving and close relationship with H. I sure as hell knew what I had and hadn't been doing in our relationship to the extent that initially I blamed myself. In fact it was OW who told me not to do that. I also was well aware of what I wanted and knew I wasn't getting. So I guess the exercise would involve marriage throughout especially before, as here you would get your clues on why all this ocurred.

I also needed to see what I was doing right and was getting to save my own self esteem and to see the benefits in staying in the marriage.

It also assisted in knowing what to work on to improve the relationship.

Hopefully if your husband is also doing the exercise. This will be an eyeopener for you into his current mind. Try not to get too defensive when you hear it. Hard as it is to swallow, some of it may help you know what led him where he went and to his current state of mind. If you can try and listen rather than defend, you will hear more of what he is saying. If you get defensive he will clam up or the focus will become the conflict rather than what he expresses. I am not saying you have to agree with him, but do try and consider where he is coming from. Unfortunately your H is deeply in fog so based on your recent posts it may be more negative than reality, but you may get some clues as to what his emotional needs are.

I wouldn't give up hope. If this OW made him so happy why did he end up in hospital with a breakdown? You can already see cracks in their fantasy now it has been exposed. How does he view the fact that she is now with OM, or that she does not have compassion of understanding his need to tell you of PA when having breakdown. She doesn't exactly seem to be giving him space to work himself out. You are. Hopefully in time he will see that.

Anyway good luck, hang in there
C&S

C&S -

A couple things gave you away. First, we here in the states do not "ring" people, we call them. Also, you spell certain words differently than we do over here. Realise instead of realize - little stuff like that. I am perceptive, and I have also read a LOT of different types of books, and you almost sounded British to me, except more mild. I hope that did not insult you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I kind of came to the same conclusion that you did about the MT homework. I do have a call into her (the MT), but I told her if she couldn't call me back I would bring in something on Wednesday. And I haven't heard from her. I think I will just combine everything I have so far, and see what I come up with. I will need to condense, because I am up to about 6 pages right now.

I think that my big issue is how much responsibility do I take for him looking elsewhere? In the first homework, I took a LOT of responsibility, maybe too much. I was part way through typing it up when I started to doubt that was the right way to go. In WH's current state of mind, he might take all that information and use it for why we should split. I don't trust him or his mind right now.

So then I wrote a second assignment, just sticking to the main topics, trying to make it shorter, but it doesn't ring true to me. So, I guess I will combine and take the best of both and pray.

I realized after my rough couple of days that I have not prayed since Friday. I mean, really prayed. And I didn't go to church Sunday because I was feeling poopy, and my 12 year old was crying because he misses his dad being here and wants us to be a family again. So, we missed church. Definately not going to do that again!

I too miss my friend (the OW). I talked to her all day on the phone. We only live a few blocks from each other, and we both stayed home. We had headsets for our phones, and we did all our chores on the phone together. We talked all the time, we went to almost all the same functions, our kids were in the same sports and usually on the same teams. I went through my own withdrawl from her. And if I wasn't talking to her, I was talking to my other best friend, my H. So, after this happened, my world got very quiet and lonely.

But it has been a blessing, because I have about 10 other girlfriends who were missing me terribly, and were jealous that I was so exclusive with OW, and now they are so happy to have me back in their lives. I apologized (another word you spell different!) to them all for neglecting them. And they forgave me. So now my life is full of friendships again, just not the two I was used to.

I know she was not my true friend, though. The day WH went to the hospital and told me, that very morning she had convinced me that she had done nothing inappropriate with my H. She was going to lie to me to the end. She is a liar. That is why I don't think WH could ever be with her. She could lie to him just like she did me, and as you pointed out, I am pretty preceptive. I did not believe my H, but I did believe her. Scary, huh?

I went and got "NOT Just Friends" and "Torn Asunder" last night. My "Tough Love" is not in yet. I started the "NOT J F" book last night. Apparently, this is the new infidelity epidemic, these friendships crossing the lines and then not being able to stop. Hopefully it will give me some needed compassion for my WH.

Right now just being physically near him makes me physically upset. I am having a strong reaction to the way he is handling this entire situation. He is definately not impressing me - I am not seeing any dedication, commitment, remorse, nothing. I know that is normal in this stage of the fog, but how will he ever come out while he is still communicating with her? That is what is making me the most mad. He has caused all this damage, then proclaims they can be "just friends." I have said, obviously you two are not capable of that. No, he says, that is what we have agreed upon. Oh, well, THAT makes me feel better. Yeah, I trust you two! NOT!

Well, better go get one kid on the bus and the other some breakfast. Oh yeah, another clue was that you post at like 3 am our time. What is the time difference? I am actually in Mountain Standard Time over here. One hour later than the Pacific that this site is on.

Chat at you later. Thanks for your homework advice. I think we are thinking alike on that subject. It's nice to get confirmation.

Love, Amy

I was talking to one of my friends today. She was a WW, and her marriage ended in D. She did not want to try to make it work. Anyway, she was giving me some insight into how my WH's brain is working. She explained why MB has us do the things we do. I hope this helps my brain turn around to do what I need to do.

Basically, she told me the more pain her BS showed her, the more she felt pressured. Pressured to make a decision before she was really ready, to end the pain. So, she D'd him, even though she wasn't quite ready. Which is why it is important to be able to listen, without looking like he is cutting my hand off!

Does this make any sense? It kind of does to me. We have another MT tomorrow. I am going to try to not show him my pain. He already knows it is there, and he is incapable of doing anything about it right now. And I don't want to inadvertantly pressure him into making a decision he isn't 100% sure about.

I did notice today that sometime recently he took the "Sentual Massage" book he had out of his nightstand. I wonder if he is continuing intimate relations with her. He claims that since he "came clean" with me, there have been no more lies. I cannot tell if it is intuition or irrational suspicions on my part. Hmmmmmm. Only time will tell.

Amy

This is a good insight. My H kept telling me to get strong. I was thinking that when I get strong, he will be ready to run away. Maybe I am wrong. I really have to STRONG.

lostnhurt -

It's weird, but after that conversation with my friend, I am starting to notice a lot of the veterans giving that advice. Maybe before it was not what I was looking for, so I didn't notice.

I truly need to let his words roll off me, because right now they are not real. He is going on "feelings" right now, and I cannot also engage in that. Feelings lie. If I was going on feelings right now, I would be at City Hall filing for D.

He needs to work through his issues and talk about them. And in hearing his words, perhaps I can extract kernels of truth. It is in there, the answers to my questions, I just have to be able to hear it. HEAR it, not react to it.

We'll see if I can walk this walk tomorrow at our MT appointment. Wish me luck!!! I have a plan, he does not. I need to be the strong one now, the leader.

Amy

Hi
I just posted a long reply to you and lost it.

Anyway I am in no way offended. I am happy to be Australian, would not be offended if you thought I was English and also love your country.

Boy this is so annoying losing my post.

First: YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOU WH AFFAIR

Looking at the problems in your marriage and your contribution to that is not about laying blame. It is about considering the environment that existed in order to clue you into seeing the true state of the relationship. I am sure that you both were doing plenty right and plenty wrong. I am sure that improvements could be possible. The decision however ny your husband to indulge in affair rather than express his concerns to you was his and his alone. You probably had some greviences and you sure have some now, but you have not done that. Nor do I see you posting that you are out looking for another man.

That said, don't be surprised if you find your self thinking about whether it would be better to trade in your H for another. I went through a stage where I did that. Thought that perhaps by staying here with H I may have been denying myself a real shot at happiness. Fortinately I am past that nowand I am happy. I'm not saying it is Utopia. We are a work in progress.

I think you have a good attitude about you session with the MT. I pray for you to have the strength to remain calm and not react. You will hear more and get better insight if you can do that. It is very hard to do especially if negative things are being said. It is such an emotional experience. I am no saint and was not always able to maintain my resolve, however, looking back I think it was when I remained calm that I got better insight and that best progress was made.

Your WW friend has given you good advice. I agree that when we are clingy or desparate it only drives them away. We come over then as helpless and pathetic. I for one did not only want my H here because I had pressured him into it. In fact I had a lot of concern early on that perhaps he was here out of duty. I spent a lot of time encouraging him to consider if his heart truly lay with me, as I would not want to be in a relationship where he was in love with someone else. I did not want to be resented. (This after the fog was lifting)Fortunately his heart lay here. You seem to be giving your H space. However it is a fine line between giving space and allowing fence sitting. It is early days for you. I was lucky in that mine jumped off the fence quickly. I hope this is the case for you too. You are certainly adopting a good attitude.

By the way, If you go to recovery look at the post there by Oswald. I think it has liquid soap in the title. It is a very good account of his two year recovery. Someone has recently resurrected it. It makes good reading and I can identify with much of what he expresses. A lot of the posters in this thread have a wealth of experience. If you go to their profile (click on the glasses) you can see their profile. You can also view recent posts. You can also get their member number. If you then do a search by member number (by clicking in the search in red at the top of the page) you can view any of their posts. (Some of them are in the 1000s). A lot of these people were inspirational for me to read. Twyla in particular always gives great advice.

Try to keep smiling
C&S

<small>[ February 18, 2004, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: confused&scared ]</small>

C&S -

I myself have lost a couple of good posts. Very upsetting. I have tried to get in the habit of copying in the Post a Reply window just in case. It saved me once.

I see fine lines everywhere. Fine line of giving him space and ignoring him. Fine line of accepting responsibility and accepting blame. I don't know. I sure do wish I had read some of these books BEFORE the A. There is so much information on proper boundaries, male and female friendships, protection.

I can see where we went wrong letting this single OW into our lives so intimately. We did all kinds of stuff together. I trusted her to go hiking with my WH and kids (one of my kids doesn't hike, so I stayed home with him - he has Aspergers - a mild form of Autism), and hunting (I don't hunt - actually, before he met her, WH didn't, either - red flag I now know).

Their PA began the weekend I went out of town to a surprise birthday party for relatives and they went on a Scout camping trip. I knew something had changed after that weekend by the tone of his voice. I knew. I even have emails where I tell them that I knew something had changed and I was very suspicious of them. Reading those, knowing what they knew, they must have thought I was psychic!!! How freaky.

So, my letter for the appointment today is up to 4 handwritten pages, front and back. I am trying to cover everything. After looking back so honestly, I guess I am shocked that our marriage lasted this long. I was so insulated in my cacoon, I didn't even bother to look at everything as a whole. I knew this small thing, and this bigger thing. But I only looked at them individually. Well, all those individual things add up!

Wish me luck. I think I will type my letter up so I can organize it better, with the cut & paste function.

BTW, last night I stayed late at yoga chatting with some ladies, and when I got home he was still here. It is the first time in a long time he has lingered. Just to see me? Just to talk to me? Not about anything important, just small talk. I don't know. I don't read too much into it, but we have to start somewhere, don't we? I can't wait to get started. But I know I need to be ready to do that. We'll see if I am today.

Love, Amy

OK, I am back from the MT counseling session. And my IC session. And I discovered that this site, all the veterans, and my WW friend in my earlier post, are all 100% on the money about my WH - all WS. My WH did feel pressured to make a decision, more so every time I showed him my pain. Did I show him my pain to drive him to D? Of course not! It came naturally to me, seemed like the right thing to do.

It is not. Trust the plan. Trust the knowledge, the experience, no matter what your heart and brain are telling you to do. I hope I did not discover too late. I am totally backing off. He will get email communication from me only, about business only, and I will do it as upbeat and yet impersonal as possible. That is per his request. He needs to breath.

Basically, I listened to all the stuff he had to say. And instead of crying like I did last week, I listened quietly and respectfully and did not LB. Occassionally, I rolled my eyes at what he said, but nobody saw me. Some things just deserved the eye roll. But I didn't take anything personally. I realize he is going off a script. And the third party (MT) ensures that we do not get carried away.

I think the OW might have dumped him. I'm not sure. My IC and his IC can talk, but my IC didn't share that information with me. I don't know if she can. My IC is under the impression that my WH changes his mind about what he wants almost moment to moment. That goes along with what I know. My MT says she will keep tabs on WH and OW through WH's counselor. I trust her.

WH said he didn't trust I had really changed, that what if he came back and it goes back to how it was. I have heard FWS say that that was their concern, as well. So I was expecting that. My WH basically said he is emotionally bankrupt. He cannot be with anyone right now. And I do believe him.

He has let himself down more than me. He has given up everything he believes in, and he blames me for all of it. Which I kind-of think is encouraging, in the theory that you hurt the ones you love the most.

Any thoughts? Sorry about the length. As you all have figured out by now, I am fairly long-winded.

Love, Amy

Sounds like it went well m'dear. You did great! keep it up AMY! You're getting the hang of this. You go GIRL!!! kisses from BRUSSELS****

I know its hard.. even when my H decided he wants to stay with me.. I am still having troubles with that.. so I know it's disgusting to be having those feelings. My husband said the same thing btw.. "I don't feel like I need to be with anyone right now." It's because he feels ****ty about himself and do not even know who he is.. same with your husband.

Anyways keep up the faith!

HUGS****

HI Amy Maree
Well done. You did better than I could have.
Sounds like a positive session.

He seems to now be at least considering his alternatives and coming home to you has been in his mind. If he is thinking about how things would be and if changes are for real then he must be seriously thinking it through. The fact that he is emotionally bankrupt sounds good too. He doesn't sound too happy with his life at present. His swinging back and forth in what he wants to do sounds very familiar both from my experience and many of the stories I have read on here.

His lingering the other night also sounds good. Maybe he is missing you. I wouldn't give up on him yet.

OW sounds like she has let him down. Good. His fantasy world is crumbling around him and reality is settling in. Lets hope he will begin to see his way out of this.

In the meantime are you continuing plan A. If you are you can be his soft place to fall. Read up on it. There is a Plan A/B thread if you need help. Not pushing and demanding doesn't mean you can't meet the emotional needs he will allow you to meet. Try not to lovebust or make disrespectful judgements. (I was guilty of that at one stage and almost lost my H six months in until I received this advice). I don't think you are supposed to be a stone though. Expressing your feelings in a non manipulative and respectful manner is not a lovebust in my opinion. When you get to Torn Asunder you read a lot about the spouses reactions and anger.

Unfortunately right now he seems to be seeing your feelings as lovebusters. Maybe you will have to vent here to deal with them.

I wish some of the posters more experienced in giving advice would respond to you. I see you posting on other threads though so I guess you are seeing their advice on those. Your advice and posts to others are great and you seem to give good advice so maybe they think you don't need the help.

Don't worry about being long winded. As you can probably tell, so am I.

Oh yes. I think we are about 14 hours ahead of you? Current time here is 11:27pm on Thursday 19/2/04 (thats one difference I know we have, we write the date differently - DD/MM/yy)

regards
C&S

If it is 6:30am there and 11:30pm here then that is more than 14 hours. That 17. We are on daylight saving here at present. We lived on east coast when we were there, maybe that is why I was wrong. My brains a bit tired right now. I have been working on my thesis all day.

I want to get into Pilates and yoga when the thesis is finished. I got a book and a video and have done a bit, but will find a class then. I am in my old home city, but haven't lived here since 1990.

My husband is away at present. Will return tomorrow. I have been surprisingly good. I can see progress for me here. I used to get anxious when he would go away after Dday, but I am not this time. I am clearly regaining some trust. Another step in our recovery. He has been ringing (yes I know, I am an OZZIE) me often and I, him. He gave me a complete itinery of the trip so I would know where he would be.

Bye again
C&S