Peggy Vaughn has posted the results of her survey on extra-marital affairs. One overriding theme suggests that honest communication is critical in recovery and sustaining the marriage after the affair.<P>As a wife whose H still wants to "sweep it under the rug", I can wholeheartedly agree. She states that the "willingness" to be honest has a positive impact on recovery. This honesty is part of what helps to rebuild trust. She also states that recovery from the sexual details occurs much faster than recovery from the deception in general. I agree here also. I'm long past the few sexual details that I am aware of. His unwillingness to be open and honest, however, still grates on me and I am sure, gravely affects our recovery.<P>I also noticed that most respondents were women. Could these results be skewed by gender...do women need this detail/communication more than men?<P>Check it out.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.dearpeggy.com/results.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dearpeggy.com/results.html</A> <P>Would love to hear any feedback.<P>God Bless<P>Enlightened

Another wife whose H still wants to "sweep it under the rug". I feel if he would be more willing to prove that he is being honest it would help me a lot. I feel like his unwillingness to "be an open book" holds me back from believing in him. I just feel like he holds back his feeling and that scares me.<BR> <P>------------------<BR>Jaded Heart<BR>____________<P> <A HREF="http://journeys.webprovider.com" TARGET=_blank>http://reflect.to/journeys</A> <P> <BR>

I agree with total honesty, but the complete open communication is somewhat of a concern.<P>2 days ago my H and I were sitting on the couch and he was rubbing my arms and head and just being very intimate,(not sexual, but intimate). It felt very good, but then the OW invaded my mind and I physically tensed. My H asked me what was wrong and I told him. We ended up fighting and have hardly spoken to each other since.<P>It's hard for me to practice totally honest, open communication without lovebusting.<P>Today I finally asked him if he was still mad and he said he was hurt and angry. This of course made me furious, because everything does nowadays. I held my tongue, which is very very hard for me. I did tell him, however, that I did not appreciate the way that he doesn't respect my feelings. He tells me constantly that my feelings aren't reasonable. I told him that I have these feelings and they are mine, I own them. He has no right to tell me what feelings I should have.<P>He didn't say anything. I feel that I was able to express myself without it turning into a fight so maybe that is progress.

Thanks for the replies.<P>JH-<BR>My H and I will need a bigger rug soon! Conflict Avoider economy size I know that not being able to discuss this w/him is causing a problem for me. I WANT to trust him, but because he keeps these "secrets", I feel like there is a major stumbling block before us. I'm not even talking details, I'm talking the topic is off-limits, period.<P>Essyboo-<BR>At least you know your limitations. You at least have an environment where open communication can occur. As you conquer your lbing, I will bet that you and your H will thrive in your communication.<P>Wish I had some answers. I'm struggling myself <P>Enlightened

My H also wants to sweep it under the rug and he says he has blocked it out. Well, unfortunately, I cannot. He has refused to be compelety open and honest and hates whenever I bring it up. I has tried on numerous occations to explain how difficult if not impossible it is for me to begin to find trust in him when he insists on NOT discussing anything that happened. And when he acts strangely for no reason that it doesn't help me when he tells me it is all in MY head.<P>This honesty issue has been a MAJOR stumbling block in any recovery for us.

Enlightened,<P>See my post on "Please listen." This hit me on the nail.<P>might help.<P>Essyboo too.<BR>thanks Christine/camjon<BR>

Enlightened:<P>I'll jump on the "honesty" bandwagon. I think if my W had not been willing to be so honest with me after revelation, we'd be MUCH worse off. As it is now, we're doing so well, it almost scares me.<P>------<P>Essyboo:<P>You and your H are almost there. Being honest and open is the first step. NOW, you have to learn to put aside your OWN feelings and really <B>listen</B> to what each other is saying.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My H asked me what was wrong and I told him. We ended up fighting and have hardly spoken to each other since.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why did you end up fighting? Because he took offense to the fact that OW popped into your mind, right? Well, shoot! Y'all are gonna have OW popping in and out of your minds all the time. What he should have done is try to get at the root of WHY the OW popped in your mind, assure you that she was NOT on his mind, and try to help you diffuse the anger. Instead, you both allowed your frustration to boil over and you ended up fighting.<P>Let me guess, he got mad because you keep bringing it up. You got mad because he doesn't seem to want to face the issue. Right? Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.<P>You've got to learn to ACTIVELY listen. Don't judge. Don't argue. Don't impose your OWN feelings. Listen to him. Hold his feelings for a bit; validate them, and then let them go. It ain't easy to do, because we all want to interpose our own feelings and thoughts on the conversation. Try not to do that. Have H try not to do that too. You both have to take some time to just validate how the other feels. YOUR time will come too. Just be patient and really LISTEN to each other.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Today I finally asked him if he was still mad and he said he was hurt and angry. This of course made me furious, because everything does nowadays. I held my tongue, which is very very hard for me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Excellent! That's what I'm talking about. Hard to hold your tongue, but you've GOT to in order to understand where he's coming from. It's a tactic that we lawyers learn pretty well. Wc can't make assumptions, we have to listen to the whole story and formulate our defense from THAT.<P>It's the same for married couples. You have to really listen to what your spouse says and ask probing, non-judgmental questions, and try to get to the root of their feelings. If you can understand their feelings, you might be less apt to get into arguments because you'll see their point of view. You may not agree with it, but you'll at least understand WHY they think that way. H needs to learn to do the same thing for you.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He tells me constantly that my feelings aren't reasonable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No feelings are reasonable. Feelings are emotional. Emotion is the direct OPPOSITE of reason. I bet, what he means by this comment is that he doesn't understand WHY you feel a certain way. There are two reasons for this: 1) You don't convey it well enough to him (probably because y'all get into a fight before you have a chance to fully develop your conversation); and 2) He's interposing his own values and perceptions onto the situation and not really ACTIVELY listening to your point of view.<P>I highly recommend that if you aren't seeing a counselor, you see one. Our counselor was EXCELLENT at helping us learn how to listen to each other. I always thought I was a good listener, but I learned quickly that I was not. I judge WAY too hastily, and I always try to fix the problem. I offer unsolicited advice, and I don't offer enough sympathy. I'm working on it, though. <P>You and H should really try some active listening techniques. A good counselor can help you. Ya oughta look into it! <P>Food for thought!<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P><p>[This message has been edited by Lone Star (edited December 23, 1999).]

Hi all. Thanks for the feedback. <P>devastated2-<BR>I know how you feel. I have also told my H that I understand that it is hard for him to discuss, but this, I feel, still discounts my feelings on the matter. I feel like every step of the process is about what makes HIM feel best. I just have to deal with it.<P>camjon-<BR>Went back and read your post...I can relate. My H will not talk nor listen to me about the affair(s). Its a tough spot to be in for me.<P>Lonestar-<BR>You and many others on this board have demonstrated the success of the honest communication concept. If only I could get my H to understand how beneficial it would be to both of us if we could make this happen.<P>God Bless<BR>Enlightened

I sorta messed up tonight.<P>We had our Christmas this morning because we are going to our parents on Christmas eve and didn't want the children to have to open presents and then leave most of them at home. My H works 12 hour rotating shift 7 to 7 rotating from days and nights.<P>He is working nights right now. He came home at 8:30 this morning, the kids ready to open presents and of course play with them before opening the next. It was almost 11:00 before we finished. <P>We did spend some time together and did some talking before he went to sleep so it was almost 12:00. He then woke up at 3:00 PM 4 hours later to pack. Left for work at 5:00 PM and won't be home again until tomorrow at 8:30. We are going to leave immediately and he will sleep while I drive.<P>Friday is my parent's day and Saturday is his parent's day. I told my Mom that he would be going to bed as soon as we got there so to please have a bedroom ready. I told my H that I would leave it up to him if he wanted to get up for the early dinner, around 2 or 3, or just sleep and then be in a better mood to visit that evening. I made sure that it wasn't a matter of me not caring if he was there and wanting him to make the decision based on how he felt. <P>He fears that my parents will be offended by this. My mom is very temperamental about that sort of things. I told him she already understands what you had to do in order to even get us there. If she had a problem I would handle it. She never says things to him, but she really nags me. I know I can handle it much better now.<P>Anyway, he hardly ate dinner anymore and has been extremely down. He told me today that he needed me to be patient because he fears he is now suffering from depression also. I have been on medication for almost 3 weeks.<P>I had been trying hard all day, but here is where I messed. I asked him if it had anything to do with the OW. He popped at me "Of course is does, I had an affair with her". I reminded him what Dr. Harley says about additional contact setting the withdrawal symptoms back to the beginning (she works at the same plant and I know he sees her from time to time). He said that has no affect on him whatsoever. I told him in a not angry or B****y tone that I no longer felt that we can consider him the exception to all the rules. He got angry and said "I only want your patience". I apologized and told him I didn't mean to sound like I was getting on to him and I'm sorry I got sharp, I just feel we need to make sure that him seeing her or her truck or hearing her name isn't causing this.<P>I made a disrespectful judgement and he got mad. I feel that asking him if it had to do with something new regarding his ow was a justified question, my statement about him not being an exception was poorly worded.<P>It worries me that he hasn't followed to rule of not contact. He say he has only talked to her once in about 6 months, but feels completely trapped because he knows if he tells me I will get mad and if he doesn't he isn't being honest and if I were to find out some other way I would completely freak.<P>He never requested no contact the way it is recommended. He has never told the OW to go away. She is involved with someone else now and it has been over 18 months. Would a no contact letter be inappropriate at this point if he really has only run into her once in 6 months. They spoke briefly and of course she asked about our marriage, but I feel that would have been still a good time to have said something like "I would appreciate it if you would not come up and talk to me anymore. We don't have to work together and with your cooperation we could continue working here and never even see each other."<P>He says he doesn't miss her, he does feel dread when he sees her because he fears that she is going to try to pull something.<P>It's hard to know. I would like to think that maybe he is different. He had ended the affair before I found out, I'm not sure it would have stayed ended, but he had already beeing staying away from her, but still talking to her from time to time. They hadn't been intimate for a month or so when I found out. Maybe that does make a difference.<P>The admission to depression both scares me and gives me a sense of relief. This is the first time he hasn't insisted that he was okay and I was the only one needing fixing. He says he is depressed because of the likelihood that our marriage will fail and he doesn't want to lose me. How do I know it isn't because he is depressed he is having to give her up, or depressed because it has started up again?