I'm having a miserable morning. I'm fighting back tears so hard I don't know how much longer I can do it. I may have to go out to my truck and just let them go.
Nothing has changed to prompt this, quite the contrary. First thing this morning I was obviously the first thing on his mind. We met at Dunkin Donuts for coffee on our way to work. I was on my way there, he called me, and he happened to be there. Said he'd call me later. But I'm dying right now. I have every doubt in the world, my mind and my heart are drowning. I have no positive in me today. All I can think about is how my whole life as I knew it crashed down around me.
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

You're doing such a great job, holding it together. Maybe you don't realize how well - but I can see it in your posts.

That is so true! You think you're finally making a breakthrough, that you're getting stronger, that things might be looking up - and then the next day you're down more than before. Accept it - you're going to hit bottom again and again.

But as you continue in Plan A, letting the MB principles become part of yourself and your actions, you'll find that those "bottoms" aren't quite so bad or as frequent.

You know when I realized my Plan A had worked? It was the last time I ever saw my WH. He was coming back home to pack some things. He'd already told me it was over for good. And I baked him brownies and a beautiful dinner, I met him at the airport and let him talk about his month at work, we had a wonderful meal with candles and pleasant conversation. And then when he disappeared into the back room - the time when I used to follow him, hang on him, worry over him - I let go. Instead, I sat down and started watching the news. And about 5 minutes later he came back in with the most quizzical look on his face, as though he couldn't believe what was happening. We talked about politics and work, our 2 passions. And then he started to really talk - about our marriage, and why he couldn't stay any longer, and the OW and the unborn OC. That went on all night and all the next day and the next night as well. We talked and talked, cried. He'd go off to talk to OW on e-mail, and I'd stay in the other room - and he'd be back in with me not 15 minutes later, to talk some more. He told me he saw that I'd changed so much, that I was at peace, and he wished he could be there too but he couldn't. And I truly was at peace. Not happy, I was so miserable and depressed. But I was at peace knowing that he was making this choice for reasons other than me. He'd seen what it could be like with me if he stayed and he was truly regretting it. Unfortunately I hadn't changed soon enough.

That's why I keep saying to do Plan A for yourself. Think about what it really means and how it will improve you. Only when the changes are truly inside you will they become obvious to your WH.

I'm seeing a therapist now, and going on AD. This may help my mental state a lot. I'm still not ready to stop blaming myself. The amount of guilt I feel is overwhelming, but I'm also starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel.

He's still talking to OW. Supposedly, he's told her he's talking to me to see where things go. I don't think I believe that for a minute.

I have really come to believe that he's hanging on to both. Basically I think he's hanging on to me in case they don't work out. There are so many obstacles for them.

I really think Plan B would be a better place for me. That way I knew all the hard work I was putting in truly was for me. I'm starting to resent him for somehow becoming the victim in his mind.

I'm not ready yet, because I'm too depressed about the whole thing and not thinking clearly.

In a few weeks, I may be strong enough, and be able to forgive myself enough to let go of him and what he's done to what we once had.

He's making this all about me all of a sudden. Says he's standing back and letting himself see where we go. He says he's not making any effort. He's just watching.

I think it's over. I think that's why my mood changed yesterday. I feel in my heart it is over. I've had so many health issues in the last 5 months, I was in depression and didn't know it. Instead of him understanding, he's still in the phase that, well I treated him really badly.

Pardon me, but if I can try to forgive an A, and try to repair my marriage, and he can't forgive me for pushing him away because I developed some pretty scary health issues, then maybe he's not worth it for me, maybe I deserve much better.

Today , like today, I'm still in the acceptance mode that this is really it. He gets to have his cake and eat it too.

I'm not hearing words of encouragement, I'm not hearing words of remorse, I'm not hearing how much he wishes he could come home. All I hear from his is how much he needs time.

I have to make sure the decision I make is right for me, and until the AD kick in, I won't make that decision, but IF that time comes, and I PRAY it does, I'm going to drop him right on his @ss. Let HIM do a little work for once. If he is able to at all.

Thank you for being there, it helps alot. Everything they have, is based on one lie after another. It's doomed, she's stupider then I am, and he's selfish and headed no where.

Regardless, I'm determined to come out a better person for this.

Hi Betrayed,

I've been following your story, and I have to say your progress is impressive.

The feelings that you're having right now are 100% normal.

You only found out 2 1/2 weeks ago, if your signature is right. You are in the very beginning stages of this mess. You are going to have days where you will want to throw in the towel, you'll second guess yourself. This is totally normal.

Your H right now is in the fog. I'm willing to bet that when he's not with you he's wishing he was.

It is not uncommon for WS to go back and forth, most of the time because of the guilt they feel towards the OP. Don't forget, he's probably promised her all kinds of things and she believed him.

My H told me on May 9 about his A and only ended in July.

Your H is in the fog and you have to remember that. Your emotions are normal.

The OP is from what I'm reading desperate. Your H turning off his cell to avoid her calls is good sign.

Don't give up. Hang in there, you have a few corner to turn before you, and it's not easy.

my thoughts are with you.

xx

Heartbroken,
I don't want to get my hopes up. The OW continues to harass me, and I let her, her friends are starting to harass my WH now, and he's getting nothing but fairness and support from me.
I hate the FOG, there is nothing more we BS wish for that dim light bulb to finally go off for the WH to go, WHAT AM I DOING ???
My WH is starting to see that, sometimes, but sometimes I see him slip backwards. We talk of future things, taking one day at a time, seeing where it goes, he's convinced we're heading in the right direction, yet OW isn't out of picture.
Boy does THAT shed layers of doubt on me.
We are supposed to be getting together tonight. The never ending rollercoaster is leaving the gate.
Please let me know of your progress and how things went.
Thanks!

WH wasn't able to come over last night because of his inflammed joints, but we did spend quite awhile on the phone. On several different times, I called him, and he answered the phone every time.

Last night, over the phone we engaged in relationship talk for the FIRST time. Things, one thing in particular that really destroyed my marriaqe.

I felt I needed more, I needed to know I was not in a FOG myself, or in denial in any way.

I pushed a little, and he got so irritated at one point that he was going to hang up on me.

But INSTEAD, he let that angry seed out. Boy did he. He said I WANT MY PLACE. This took some questions, because I had NO clue what the heck he was referring to. He said, you are the wife, you have your place, I WANT MY PLACE, I WANT TO BE THE HUSBAND. I poked, harder, do you want to be MY HUSBAND, (very reluctant to answer that one)... like pulling teeth. Finally he said, YES, I want to be YOUR husband, wasn't that the idea when we got married ?

In a nut shell, I have 2 children from an abusive marriage many ions ago. My son just turned 20, my daughter is going on 18. For the last 20 years, I've let those kids run all over me, I've overprotected, and became so obvlious to them walking all over me, that they were walking all over my husband as well. He told me a million times he couldn't take much more. I didn't listen to him when he wanted to offer advice, I just cut him off. Those are MY kids....they come first...I don't care about what you think or say.

Although I was letting my daughter's boyfriend who had a suspended license drive my brand new truck on insurance my husband and I pay for.

WH would call to see if I wanted him to pick up something for dinner, my immediate response... let me ask daughter and boyfriend what they wanted.

I could tell you thousands of other examples. But my WH said, WHEN he comes home, he is taking HIS PLACE. He and I will discuss things, and come to mutual decisions, but bottom line, this is HIS house too, he pays the bills here.

I am going to talk to my therapist this morning about this issue, because I know I can't fix it on my own. Obviously I have to recognize my children are my children, and I love them, but my H is my H because I CHOSE him, and it doesn't have to be chosing one over the other, and I've never been able to do that.

Any thoughts on moving into that conversation was good or not ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

been there done that.....i had a similar situation. my son from a previous marriage is now 14. my husband has supported and been his step-parent since he was 2 1/2. they never really had a great relationship--due to both of them. husband shut down to him years ago--son pulled away and when the teen years hit so did the disrespect. i had been pleading with my husband for years to get help/therapy with us but he wouldnt. so when things blew i was caught in the crossfire.

a part of me wanted to say-but didnt-what do you expect??? you have shut him out for so many years, then he sees you lavish yourself on our youngest and you expect him to respect you??? they both failed each other and i should have stepped in along time ago. the final straw came when he was in his affair and told me he was kicking our oldest out---he wanted him gone!!

i worked a 14 hour day and thats the first thing he hits me with when i walk in the door.(probably one of his biggest mistakes in life <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) well i had finally had it, but stayed calm and said--im gonna leave the room and let you think about what you just said to me---then im gonna give you one and only one chance to take it back and explain yourself. and i left the room. well since he allready had miss wonderfull on the side and i didnt know it he stood firm---so i told him do you want me to pack for you or would you rather do it yourself???

that shocked him--not enough obviously--but he thought i would crumble. i will work out a plan on what to do, i will do counseling with you both, but if you think im gonna throw a child away your nuts.(his biological dad is totally not responsible and not an option--never was.)

that sent his affair full swing. i will never regret standing up for my child--but that also has to do with husbands lack of involvement. that was his choice. i allways gave him the parent position. i never undermined his authority--except on that occasion <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

i found out about a month or so later about the affair. went through it all and then some. we never split--allthough at one time i did ask him to leave. that was about a year into it i think...he wasnt doing anything for recovery. he has finally come around after two years of waiting.

plan a for you---you are doing incredible. reach out for support and help when you need to. have people around you that understand what you are doing and support it. make yourself less accesable--maybe when he asks about comming over for dinner---tell him you have plans. if you cant fib---then make plans for something else.

hang in and if you want---im in jersey too. im in warren county. if you need a local ear let me know.

It's so hard to stay in Plan A, and not feel my world falling down around me. I miss my husband SO much. I want my life back !

No matter how positive things seem at times, I'm so lonely. My children live there own lives. They are next to never around, unless they need something or want something at the inconvenience of myself OR my WH. They didn't seem to mind relying on him, but sure didn't show him any respect. That's MY fault.

Let's face it, in a few years, they'll be on their own, living their lives the way that makes them happy, and where will I be ? Without my one true love.

My every day, is no longer my every day. I wake up alone, I go to sleep alone. I run errands alone. There are no clothes to wash, nothing to pick up after him.

He won't even spend the night here, not once. I'm trying to get to that point, I've invited him back to his home, to take his place. Now it's up to him to take it.

Put this, together with the affair, the health issues, I'm a mess. My husband loves me, he wants to be with me, he wants our marriage to work, but he says first I have to help myself. He said it's like being a passenger on an airplane, when the mask falls down, if you dont put your mask on first, how can you help someone else ?

This is agony. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

then do it---start to care for you. make that the priority. do something for you. spend a day at a spa--get the toes done, a massage the works!

it all takes time...unfortunately we all want it to go away now. it doesnt. hang in there, it does get better.

so tell me more about you--your likes and such.

Betrayed - Time for some boundaries with you kids. Get a book about them, or join a women's support group. Do it for you kids. They will not like it at first. Now is a good time, while your WH is gone.

They need to learn that there are consequences for their choices. Yes, they will soon be gone, and need to learn about boundaries now. The rest of the world will not be as forgiving as mom.

There is a great book called "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend, and it even has a workbook that comes with it. When you first start setting boundaries, others will be mad, but soon they start accepting them. Please take care of this as soon as you can.

WH called his morning. Was going to Walgreens for something for his elbow, I offered to go with him. He was excited, said I'll be over in 20 minutes to pick you up. (I put on a fresh pot of coffee just in case).

He picked me up, we went to Walgreens. He came in, we had a couple cups of coffee, talked some. I took a small step, and said, I'm putting our shelf back together (our shelf was a shelf in our china closet in the dining room that contained things like our wedding cake topper, a wedding picture of us, souvenir champagne and glasses from Caesars resorts, pictures of us there...etc.) His reply was , I didn't take it all down. SO....

We're taking VERY small baby steps. He just left to go back to his mom's to get ready for work tonight. He has to leave for work @ 6, but said he'll be back here in a little while to do some paper work and take a nap, then I can wake him up so he can go to work.

Whenever he worked nights, he would come home at whatever time in the middle of the night with dunkin donuts coffee for both of us. Whether it was 1 AM or 5 AM.

I said, you could always stop by on your way home with some coffee...he said...it might be 5 am...we have a lot of work to do. I said...either way, the invitation is there.

We are DEFINATELY taking positive steps. I haven't asked him if OW is still in picture. I'm starting to think she's being ejected. I'm not at that step yet.

I made sure I paid attention to his conversation, helped him find something he needed in the garage. Bought him a card, which he read in front of me, and said Thank you.

This slippery slope will slide out from beneath me again, I know that, I'm not that naive. But I'm working extra extra hard.

I have a VERY important question.
My WH is spending more and more time with me, agreeing to rebuild our marriage, to see if we can get through this. He's been telling me this for almost 2 weeks now.

We're starting to make steps toward reconciliation. He's reaching out to me more and more. He's making himself more available to me.

Is it too early to PROTECT myself from the fact that he may still be talking to OW ? This situation is that she's currently in TEXAS and we're in New Jersey. If she were HERE, I don't know if things would be going the way they are.

Do I ask him to end all contact with her if he's serious about repairing our marriage or is it too soon and will it push him away ?

Is that considered a selfish demand on my part ?

I REALLY need help with this one.

I want to do the right thing, but know from reading SAA that we can't truly begin recovery until A is over both physically AND emotionally.

He told me that he told OW we were talking to see where things go.

Should that be enough for me right now ?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

before you ever begin recovery there are certain things that are gonna have to happen. he will have to do a NC letter. sever all ties to the ow. make himself and his cell phone or e-mail open to you. maybe mc before he comes back.

the list goes on and on. but if he just says its over and he comes home----your radar is gonna go off the wall. you will have no plan and no knowledge if it is really over with them. get your boundries together, figure out what they are and what his consequences will be if not followed. this is not a selfish demand. this is what you are willing to live with versus not knowing. these are measures you have been forced into taking because he hasnt protected you. do this all before he cames back.

for the time being---enjoy the time together and keep it simple. figure out your boundries with your children and consequences for you if not followed. he will need that also.

good luck

I know you're right. As much as I wanted to think so, we're not really in recovery. We're still in limbo land.

This takes a lot of will power. My struggle to re-adust to life without my husband being the first person I see in the morning and the last thing I see at night, trying to reconnect our marriage to the point he wants to work it out, wants to stay with me, chooses me, finding out about the A, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> teaching the boundaries around here, working, keeping the house up. I feel like I'm a walking time bomb.

Get busy, my dear. The only one you can change right now is you. Make those changes. Start with boundaries with your kids. That will take awhile.

In the meantime, enjoy doing things with your H as much as he will let you. Forget about relationship talk and the OW. Fill up his love bank. You are very lucky - many WS's won't let the BS do this.

So cram deposits into his bank. You have a plan. He does not. Neither does OW. So take full advantage of this time to show him the way home.

Before you attempt restoring the marriage, there will have to be NC with OW. Also there will be a plan for reconciliation. But forget about that right now. Did you read the lighthouse post?

No, I did not read it, point me in the right direction.

I was thinking last night about what I've done recently to put my deposits in. I think I'm doing pretty well. Although I think I might be overdoing it a bit, but I am VERY careful not to take any out. I figure, even if OW can be making deposits, that have to be small in comparison to mine.

Whenever he's here (and that's been 3 times this week) I offer him something to drink, make him something to eat, help him with whatever task he's on, offered a massage, twice took care of bad elbow. No nonstop phone calls, just ALL deposits, no withdrawals (wearing me out, sometimes I feel like a doormat) but I realize it's for a greater good. 2 1/2 weeks ago, I was being told I don't love you anymore, there hasn't been an "US" for a very long time, I talked of a future with OW......

As soon as I put my Plan A into action I saw IMMEDIATE response, of course OW assisted with her harassing phone calls to me. The fact he was with me that ONE time to HEAR all the ugliness flowing from her mouth, REALLY cleared some FOG. I am very lucky she made that HUGE withdrawal. That really bothered him, he said to her on the phone that night , "I've hurt this woman that's been a part of my life for 6 years in the worst of ways, I can't believe not even knowing her, YOU'D say those things to her"

I want to think positive, I SO WANT to, but sometimes don't see or feel it. Posting here, helps alot, because sometimes I see positives that I'm unable or unwilling to see.

posted March 07, 2004 06:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted this to lostwithouther a short while back..

I liked this post...
I still pray now more than ever he can become the lighthouse....

I hope some others find comfort from the storm...


Your spouse is in huge conflict....

the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...

the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...

It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush

their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...

their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth

all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life...
yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....

they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...

he or she is lost to themselves...

and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...

You become the lighthouse..you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...

see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...

Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get...
you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....

they are untrustable right now...
but you know that...so they can't hurt you right now...they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...

you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions.....
set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives....
without lovebusting...
offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them...
you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....

Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....

your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul...
and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...and eventually they will see that you are the only one...who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...


be the lighthouse....
OK that's really out there I know....

strength to you all..
ARK

Thank you so much. That was very inspiring and insightful.

I'll stay steady in my course. I won't fool myself into believing it's working, I'll just believe in my own actions, and the results I'm able to see within me.

I believe there's hope.

I'll let God decide. Whatever his plan, I'll accept it.

Thank you again. You are SO much support. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

hey Jersey girl- I read your whole thread- something I just never do in JFO- I laughed and cried my way thru it with you and wasn't surprised at the end to find Nikko- NJ is probably what brought us both to your thread- if you're ever up for a live conversation I'm sure we are available. I also have "kids" that are 18/21 and I am 43. You are doing great and I'm glad you found MB so quickly! I'll post my favorite "advice" and add you to my prayers.

PEACE OUT and IN !!

Desiderata
"Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,

and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender,

be on good terms with all persons.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly;

and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant;

They too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons;

they are vexatious to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others,

you may become vain or bitter,

for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.

Keep interested in your own career, however humble;

It is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs,

for the world is full of trickery.

But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;

Many persons strive for high ideals,

and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.

Neither be cynical about love;

for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment

it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the council of the years,

Gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.

But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.

Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a healthy discipline,

Be gentle with yourself.

You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars;

you have a right to be here,

and whether or not it is clear to you,

no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore, be at peace with God,

Whatever you conceive Him to be.

And whatever your labors and aspirations,

in the noisy confusion of life,

keep peace in your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,

it is still a beautiful world.

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy."

Today I'm sad. The emotional rollercoaster again.
I may have pushed a little today, and I'm starting to regret it.
WH worked last night, didn't get home to his mom's until 4 am. Woke up around 3ish today.
Arm is sore, cranky mood, probably not coming over.
He asks me how I am, I'm honest, I'm having a bit of a down day. This is his remedy, read your book, watch a movie, stop doing that.
I was irritated, thought, let me hang up before I lose me mind completely.
Call back a short time later. Say...I know I'm working hard, and we're heading in the right direction, but there are certain things I've noticed that make me a bit concerned for my own well being.
You don't miss me, you aren't suffering through this, and I think I'm getting very little from you on that part.
His reply, you just want to rush things.
I said, no , not at all, I just want to BELIEVE we're headed in the right direction, I don't want to be TOLD that.
So now he's doing some paperwork. I had intended to invite him over to watch the Sopranos, but don't think I'm up to seeing his LYING STINKING CHEATING FACE TODAY.
This is the most devastating mix of emotions...how hard I try to save my marriage and the love of my soulmate, and HATE HIS GUTS AND WISH HIM AND OW EVIL EVERY SECOND I'm not crying over his stupid BUTT !
When, and IF he calls me later, I'll be upbeat, positive, lavish support and care his way, and when I hang up, I'll be left feeling empty, alone and betrayed.

This is NOT what I signed up for. If there was a line in my marriage vows that said, and allow adultry by WH on the chance it will probably happen, well....I'd have thought twice about THAT I DO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />