Well after the conversation I had with W last night I see that she is still hearing what she wants and not really listening. I have come to the conclusion that she doesnt want a divorce, but is unwilling to give any concessions at this point. I feel like she expects me to do all the changing. We have another session on Tues, where I will try and get her to lay out what concessions she is willing to make. I have already told her what I am willing to do and what I am already doing. Shes still pretty much blaming everything on me. I have to get her to see how many fingers are pointing at her while shes pointing them at me. Wish me luck and I hope I havent completely confused you. The EMS is keeping me busy. Why wont they just let me sleep? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

HEY...there you are !

She's listening...BELIEVE me......

Her walls are still up.

The fact she doesn't want a divorce speaks volumes...hang ON to that.

You keep speaking of laying it out...your expectations....what if that what she is waiting for ? To see if you are really interested in saving the marriage, or controlling the process ?

Think about this first.

What do you mean saving the marriage or controlling the process? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Not getting defensive, just confused.

This is what you wrote :


but is unwilling to give any concessions at this point. I feel like she expects me to do all the changing. We have another session on Tues, where I will try and get her to lay out what concessions she is willing to make

I understand how you feel. I feel the same way...but what I'm learning is that these are attempts to control something other than your own actions.

I know you need reassurance..you feel like you don't want to climb the mountain if there 's nothing at the top.

HOWEVER...remember this always... this is a chance....a chance to save your marriage. It comes with no guarantees unfortunately. Try to think about that for a bit.

Inside, you know your wife.... you know she's battling all kinds of demons...you can teach her more through YOUR vigilance. I know...and I don't know why I think this...but in YOUR case particulary, I believe your wife will learn THROUGH you.

It seems that every time you go to counseling...you expect a HUGE breakthru, and when you don't GET it...it kicks you down a little.

You're running out of patience....I know...but she is making progress. I KNOW you guys will get through this...I have prayed too hard for it not to be. She has those children to think about it...and THAT will be her strength. She WILL come around....she is....it's just taking longer than you'd like...and you're feelings are not getting validated. YOU DON'T NEED YOUR FEELINGS VALIDATED...those belong to you, no one can tell you whether they are wrong, right, in left field, or totally unjustified.

This process could go on for many more months before you see the progress you're hoping for. Would you be able to go on with your life, knowing if you'd only stayed in the race a bit longer...you'd have won ?

You make a good point, but no one ever accused me of being patient. I'm just having a problem with her attitude, she isnt willing to cut any slack and I'm just getting fed up. I wont jump out of the race yet, I've put too much into it already. At somepoint this race needs to end though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Yes I know...patience.... that deadly word...that carries so many implications. If you knew the outcome of the journey...you could find an abundance of patience...unfortunately...that's not the hand we've been dealt.

What is your desired outcome ? Remember...even if your W takes a different PATH.... if the outcome will result in the same destination... FIND your strength.

YOU KNOW where to find your strength...they sing you songs..and tell you how much they love you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

W took off for the WE again. I hate that. Doesnt seem that she is willing to stop that yet. Im trying I really am. If I ***** aboutit she just withdraws more. Really got to work plan a this We. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Your W really seems in conflict right now. It's almost as if she's living with 2 distinct personalities.

She seems like she wants you to trust her, but doesn't want to earn it. That's something to maybe bring up in MC this week. Use I statements.

Marriage...it's a union...not 2 people walking seperate paths. You have to start somewhere. And tell her that you feel that you haven't gotten off the ground yet.

Tell her you want a chance to prove what you've learned, show her how you're working on your issues. Tell her you want to show her the family she could have. Use all I statements.

See what MC says this week. Keep hanging in there...she's about to fold....she apologized for biting your head off...that's a good sign. Keep your plan A going !...I'm watching you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Well she has just been peachy today. That 2 personality thing makes alot of sense, it was something I thought of a long time ago. I dont know if thats the case, but it sure seems like it sometimes. I dont know where the counseller is going with her course of questioning entirely. I'm going to give her another month, if she dooesnt get us somewhere by then I'm going to suggest to W that we call the Harleys. I doubt she'll go for it, but I'm still going to mention it. I WANT MY FAMILY BACK. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Is your MC pro marriage ? Does your MC seem more interested in helping your W than helping your M ?

That's just questions I have since you stated you didn't know where the Counselor was going with the questioning.

The better counselors don't really ASK a lot of questions...that requires too much coaxing.

The counselor should be leading the session.... setting boundaries, it sounds like you may be in the wrong arena.

I think your W WOULD go for the Harley thing. Don't bring it up quite yet. Wait your month....but I think if you find a really creative approach...and Plan A like crazy this month...you'll have a pretty decent shot at it.

I know you want your family back. But remember...we have to fix the problems first..or this will inevitably happen again.

MC went ok today, nobody fought anyway. W was excptionally nice and brought kids by work to see me before they went back with her. Then she turned into that other person tonight. I just cant win, seems like nothing I say or ask her is safe. I dont know if she wants this to work or not. One minute it seems like it, the next it doesnt. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Don't be too hasty, I think she's struggling with the 2 people thing as well.

It appears to me, and I may be wrong...I've been known to be....but either way...you ARE getting FAR more from her than you were when we first got here.

The counseling seems to be improving. Remember...LOOK for progress OTHER than where you might expect to see them...I SEE THEM...and I don't know your wife.

Hang in there....KEEP PLAN A in full effect.

Well I Plan Aed this morning. Called W and Apologized for getting angry last night. She was the one that started the whole thing, and it doesnt sit right with me to say sorry, but I did it. Hope it helped. I'm soooo tired of the bs. Im having a really hard time with her indifference and seeming unwillingness to change.

You need stress relief. I saw your post to Mr. E...maybe it wouldn't hurt for you to go find THAT OM and kick the crap out of him !

You're very stressed out.. understandable....but ....I'd like to see you do something to relieve it...you'll feel better.

Let me know what you came up with. It will keep you in Plan A...without feeling like the doormat.
Remember...you have a plan...she doesn't.

The stress relief thing that keeps crossing my mind lately wouldnt be good. I need to just lay low and stay away from people. lol. Turkey season coming up next week. I'll destress then.

Okay Okay...I get your point.

I just know that when you start to get frustrated, you tend to lose your faith a little.
You've been doing so good, I don't want you to fall off your wagon there buddy.

Hang in there..another weekend comes ahead. Keep you mind on the turkey season.

Reminds me of a story in our family that carried on for years about my dad and uncle going turkey hunting. (my dad never hunted anything in his life..except OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) they were in a bar drinking, broke into the local highschool to take a swim and got arrested. LOL.

Oh what a tangled web we weave....

i got out the bulldozer and the bobcat today. knocked down some old buildings and trees around here. that helps keep my mind occupied, and gives me a sense of accomplishment. the stuff needed cleaned up believe me

Good for YOU !!

Keep cleaning that stuff up...it will keep you on a forward motion.

I'm on my way to work early today.... rough morning.... (ow paged h)... feel like doing some plowing myself right now.

PLUS today is dreaded tax day...so I have to come home a bit early and mail out my returns. Uncle Sam is taking his turn at putting the screws to me now.

Let me know how things are going !

Actually the stress relief that has been plaguing me lately has more to do with that survey Bog posted. I just seem to be thinking about that alot here lately and I dont like it. Its very persistent, and once I almost had myself talked into it. It would only seem like revenge for the moment, then I think guilt would consume me. I shall continue destroying innocent trees and buildings and just stay home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> W mother got here from Mass. yesterday so I wont pickup the kids this WE. I could but I'm gonna be nice. I dont care whether Mom In Law is happy but the girls only get to see her 2 times a year. I am however, going to go spend the day with them at some point this we. MC again on Tues. Hope this one gets me a little closer to where I want to be.

Yeah, I took part in that survey as well. But I figured...why drag someone else into my drama....that's inflicting more pain on me as well. Fortunately... I didn't have that much of a problem.

Click, Click , Click.... tap your heels together three times...keep repeating...I want to go home, I want to go home....

We're not in Kansas anymore ToTo.