Ali,

I think you did great! I taped the show today and just watched it. I think I got more help from this site than the show, not that the show wasn't any good, it was. Take care! And God Bless!

RH

Ali88 & findingmywayback & hikchik - Plain and simply, I ask about someone's personal faith in order to know whether or not to talk about God's commands and Christian principles. If that sort of inquiry offends you, so be it. If someone IS a Christian, then they DO have a responsbility to God, not me or anyone else. If not, then the question is, "WHAT standards do they embrace?", because we all have "standards" of one kind or another.

Ali88 - in the interest of you not getting only "part of the picture", whether you dislike me, my comments, or that I approach things from less of a "feminine emotional empathy" standpoint, here is the thread that hikchik mentioned. Read it for yourself if you'd like to know exactly what was said and the total context of the thread.

hikchik's thread mentioned in her post to you

As for the question about success stories: most of them have "moved on" and no long post or visit MB much. NONE of them had a successful recovery without both partners making changes in themselves that were needed (i.e., don't want to POJA, okay what "plan" for recovery will be adopted?). My own recovery of 2 years has been filled with ups and downs, but has been successful to this point and continues to make progress toward "total healing." My "story" and many others who have had success are out there.

All anyone needs to do is to spend some of their time doing a search of the forums to find many of them. And it's because they HAVE reached a successful conclusion in recovery, no longer have a personal "need" to post, and frankly have gotten tired of reading the same stuff over and over again by many posters new to the "game" and the time it takes to post to several different threads.

No one is "owed" a post or response to the messages that they post. People respond because they really do want to try to help someone else in need.

One final thought that we all might want to consider: Beware of only receiving advice from "Yes men" or "Yes women". Not all advice should be taken, but all should be considered for a balanced decision that is applicable to each individual's personal situation.

Now...I think I'll go visit Uno's for a decadent pizza, even if parts of it don't "agree" with me.

P.S. Ali, my apology for "posting on your thread" after you requested I not post. Keep me out of the discussion, and I'll be happy to remain silent and simply continue hoping that things work out for your recovery.

Ali, I didn't get to see the show, I wish I had. I'm sure you were great. You are very brave to do something like that. Don't let the naysayers get ya down.

Foreverhers, you are pretty full of yourself. Not everyone here wants to discuss religion to the extent you do. I could be Jewish, or a Buddist for all you know. This site does not say you are required to be a bible thumping christian to post here.

findingmywayback - what exactly is it that makes you so angry and spiteful?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Foreverhers, you are pretty full of yourself.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">hmmm...perhaps...but then perhaps a mirror might be helpful once in awhile.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Not everyone here wants to discuss religion to the extent you do. I could be Jewish, or a Buddist for all you know. This site does not say you are required to be a bible thumping christian to post here. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Precisely my point. I AM a Christian, and while you may have distain or animosity towards Christians, the point is that if someone IS a Christian, then they already HAVE willingly submitted their will and control of their lives to God. Sometimes it is helpful to be reminded of what some of God's commands and teachings are, and sometimes it's helpful to hear them perhaps for the first time because none of us becomes a "better Christian" instantly upon conversion. The process takes time and is lifelong, based in a willingness to honor God through obedience to Him.

If one is not a Christian and is "Jewish, or a Buddist", or an Atheist, or any other religion, it is important to know what they do believe in so that advice might be offered that is relevant to their situation and belief structure.

This site does not say you are required to be a bible thumping christian to post here.

Of course not. And neither does it require that Christians must not post either. If someone wants to be a "secular thumping Atheist" they are just as welcome to post here. Advice is simply what it is. It is an opinion of the poster that is offered for someone to consider. They can accept it, reject it, or incorporate parts of it that they think might be releveant to their own recovery, as they see fit.

But you, along with some others, seem to think that it's "okay" to bash Christians with impunity. It IS an "equal access" forum and I would challenge you to point out which "Christian principles" you feel are detrimental to marriage or destructive of a marriage.

It's fairly easy to engage in ranting, but it's much harder to engage in a meaningful discussion. Anger, in and of itself, tends to cloud rational judgment and action. That's one of the reasons why "Disrespectful Judgments" are part of the things that need to be eliminated in recovering a marriage, according to Marriage Builders principles.

I hope you can get your own anger under control one of these days and accept that others might have equally valid opinions and it is the responsibility of each individual to sift through the various opinions to find those that they think might be applicable to their situation, even if on occasion it means that they might accept that they need to change something within themselves. Change may not be "comfortable", but it is often necessary for all of us.

Recovery, as is life in general, IS a process. It is never "status quo." We do change, the only question that remains is whether or not the changes are positive or negative. Each of us has to make those choices for ourselves.

<small>[ May 15, 2004, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

This why I love my country! I am free to worship God in the way I feel is right for me. There is in my opinion no wrong way if it doesn't hurt anyone or anything to worship him. Some people are extreme and some are subtle. Whatever floats your boat. But please, no airplanes flying into skyscrapers. One of my mottos in life is.. what makes it right for me to judge? It is sometime very hard not to but I try to live by one of those golden rules.

ForeverHers. Your words are extremely strong! I can tell there is a lot of passion in your post but it does come out way to harsh. I get extremely defensive the first time I read your posts. I have to reread them at least three times to understand somewhat to what you are saying.

I am sorry for being a late bloomer for recovery! But who is to tell me that I have a time limit on my healing?

There might be people who may take years of healing to even get to the recovery part? By mentioning your frustration by a BS' healing doesn't sound very Christian like to me?? Where is the patience that is taught?
No need to justify what you had responded to Hikchic posts. She asked a simple question and somehow you took offense to that! I have never read any whinny post on this forum. Just a lot of pain. This is a forum where someone can feel safe to post without being ridiculed. No matter what the question is. But can be tough for a WS though. Unless that they come on fully armed and aware <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

I am not sure why you think someone that is new to the "just found out" forum is playing a game?? How is that happening? Am I missing something here? And I am being sincere about this. You ought to remember what it felt like when you found out that your W. was cheating on you? My reasoning for being on here is to help others in my shoes or to help someone that was in my shoe a year ago. There are threads that are way over my head and as much as I want to post something, I feel that I cannot help or it will not be beneficial to them. I was in a fog myself a year ago and felt alone. I hate to see that same feeling in someone. It really saddens me. We also learn a lot about ourselves by reading what others have to post and what we might post ourselves. Again, I have learn things when I post. I get an "Ah ha" moment. Coming onto MB has been a life saver for me.
I am sure the readers are smart enough not to take lumbering advice. Remember we all have a different point of view on issues. What works for some may not work for others.
There are a lot of people that lurks on to the "Just found out" forum that is in recovery. You? Why are you here if you are in recovery? Yes, as I have seen, a lot of the old posters have moved on and GREAT! Some of us have not been able to reach that particular goal yet. It is your responsibility if you are going to post on "Just Found Out" to help in ways that you did get to the point where you are now. Rather someone takes your advice is not up to you but up to them. And you should not be angry about that. You are obvious in a different spot then some of us. Please have compassion.
By the way, Uno's? They're not like they used to be. Duo's was better. I am not in for the thick crust! I like my Chicago style with a thinner crust and more fillings! Connies is pretty good!


Finding my way back,

It was weird seeing myself on for that 45 seconds or so. I think in the next show they will show the rest of my video. Gulp! Thanks

Recovering H,

Do you know which one was me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> Unfortunately, the show could only skim the surface. But could you imagine if it was an open show that lasted 8 hours? Just think of all the opinions! What I think will be on the second show is a women who claims she'd be gone if her H. cheated. She was in the audience. But we tried to explain to her you don't know until it happens to you! She just argued and argued. It was kind of amusing because...I said the same thing! I still think that is one of the reasons why I am still stuck! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Ali

Anyone live in Chicago or the Midwest? We go from 80's to 40's. This is silly. OK 60's away from the lake! I was trying to plant and had to go put my winter coat on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Ali, you have succeeded in confusing me by some of your statements, but I'll try to respond as best I can.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sorry for being a late bloomer for recovery! But who is to tell me that I have a time limit on my healing?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'n not sure what you are apologizing for. No one has, or would, tell you that you have a time limit on your healing. Some people never do heal totally. But basically, in most cases, it takes years to "heal."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There might be people who may take years of healing to even get to the recovery part?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, you are correct, as I stated above and as I stated in a previous post. Healing takes time. Forgiveness is often needed many times over. Again, the AVERAGE recovery takes 2 years (according to statistics from other authors). As with all averages, some fall on the "short side" of the average and some fall on the "long side" of the average. That's how averages are computed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By mentioning your frustration by a BS' healing doesn't sound very Christian like to me?? Where is the patience that is taught? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Where did I say that I was frustrated with a "BS' healing? One thing you will learn if you ever take the time to read any of my postings is that I PREACH patience in recovery virtually all the time. There are a rare few times when I have also agreed with a particular poster that it was time to "move on." In those cases, they had tried everything to get their spouse "on board" in the recovery effort, but their spouse simply would not, or could not, join in the work. Ultimately, though, the decision to "stay or go" is up to the individuals involved. It is THEIR marriage, not mine or anyone elses.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not sure why you think someone that is new to the "just found out" forum is playing a game?? How is that happening? Am I missing something here? And I am being sincere about this. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, I accept that you are asking a sincere question, so let me respond in kind. I believe that you are misinterpreting something that I said in a previous post. It was in respect to why so many of the "recovered" members are not posting and why they might not respond to someone who wants only "success stories". That particular exchange of thought was as follows; "and frankly have gotten tired of reading the same stuff over and over again by many posters new to the "game" and the time it takes to post to several different threads."

That does not mean that "game" means anything like a "board game," meaningless or irrelevant to reality. It is meant in the same vein as in "game of life." That is, things in life have a beginning and an end, with much in the middle depending on how long a time occurs between the two.

But I am also being quite honest. For most of us trying to help others takes a lot to time, both in reading and in typing, in order to try to offer up something that might help. There does come a point in time for many of us where our own recovery has progressed to the point where we don't need the support of others (there are occasions when we do) as frequently as we did when we first arrived here. There ARE only so many hours available to be on the system and that time is "taken" from other activities, including sometimes spending time with our spouse and family. When we reach that point, we tend to reduce or eliminate our time on the system, and concurrently, our posting.

But the point I was making is simply this, success stories of those who have have "made it" through recovery remain on the system. Past posts are not erased by the Administrators of the system. If someone wants to read them, they can just as easily invest their time is doing a word or subject search for topics of interest rather than asking others to "rehash" what they have probably already written. To then "lash out" out at someone who does take the time to post to them is disingenuous at best and at worst....fill in whatever word or phrase you think would be appropriate.

As to my own beliefs, I am a Christian. As such, for me, and it should be for others who claim the "title" of Christian, the true guide is God. The question for all of us is simply, "is what we are doing" following God's commands or our own desires? When the two are in concert, all is very good and progress will be made. When they are not, then we, as Christians, must defer to God's guidance "even if we don't happen to feel like it" at the time.

Understand that I also understand that for non-Christians, the admonition to "obey God" in a Christ-like manner is meaningless. It would most likely be received as "folly" because they choose something or someone else as "Lord of their life." Hence, I try to ascertain what someone's belief structure is, so that I can keep my comments as germaine to their situation as possible.

It is also why I restrict my posting primarily to others who have a professed belief in Jesus Christ. With the time that I have available, there is "more good" to be served in helping those of the "flock" who are hurting or who have "wandered away" and who are seeking a way back. If that is interpreted as "arrogant" or "harsh" or "difficult", I am sorry. I cannot control, nor would I want to, how someone interprets or reacts to anything that I or anyone else says.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are a lot of people that lurks on to the "Just found out" forum that is in recovery. You? Why are you here if you are in recovery? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have posted, in the past 2 years, a grand total of 36 posts on the Just Found Out Forum, or 1.5% of my total postings to date. I DO spend most of my time on the Recovery Forum. WHY I do post occasionally on the JFO forum is simply to try to help someone, give someone something more to think about, or even take an opposite position if the situation seems to warrant it, because that hopefully helps someone else (the person posted to or some other reader) who is usually at the beginning of....a very confusing and emotion laden time.

Most of the people on JFO are not in recovery and are seeking ways to help get into recovery of their marriage. For those who are in recovery, particularly early in recovery, the JFO forum, and to a little lesser extent the General Questions II forum, should be (in my humble opinion) avoided. The reason is simply that those forums are frequently awash with raging emotions that are often "internalized" and "empathized with" by the reader, probably more so by women who by nature are more susceptible to emotions, but really by anyone going through the very difficult initial stages following discovery and early recovery. They tend to distract and/or interfere with progress in their own recovery effort. So I tend to advise "newcomers" to recovery to avoid the other forums and restrict their posting to the Recovery Forum until such time as they are progressed enough in their own recovery to be able to handle the raw emotions they can encounter on the other systems. The Recovery Forum often has a lot of "raw emotion, too. But it is tempered by others who are actively in recovery and working at their marriage. There are "more" of those who are "further along" in recovery there who can relate and offer support and advice to someone "newer" in recovery. Ask most of them, and they will tell you that they are "different" than when they first began. Such is the result of change, time, learing, application, and patience.

Remember, for most of us, the "goal" is to build a newer, better, and fully recovered marriage. That means that at some point, unless we should choose to become a professional counselor ourselves, that even MB should become a "thing of the past" at some point. It is similar to taking drugs to combat an infection. At some point the infection is eradicated, we are returned to health, and we no longer need to keep taking the antibiotic. In fact, if we continue on it too long, we can have negative results like building up an immunity to the drug so it is no longer effective should we need it again in the future.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is your responsibility if you are going to post on "Just Found Out" to help in ways that you did get to the point where you are now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree. And such was my point regarding the Policy of Joint Agreement. Too many of us "go our own way" or "do our own thing" and that has often been part of the cause of the infidelity, possible marital problems in the marriage pre-affair, and part of the problems that can occur during recovery. Too many of us want to "pick and choose" parts of the recovery plan, trying to avoid some of the "harder" things that should be done.

POJA is a point in case. It's hard, because we agree to consider our spouse's feelings, wants, and needs in the "decision making equation." It's no longer enough to just do "whatever I feel is okay or needed." It now requires us to willingly surrender that "right" in favor of the Marriage and our spouse (even if our emotions are still yelling at us something like, "he's a scumbag", I have a right to not respect "his" feelings since he didn't respect mine!). If it's a major decision, it REQUIRES (by our choice to embrace the tenet of POJA) the enthusiastic agreement of both spouses or it does NOT get done. It puts the "good of the spouse" and the marriage above our wants. It allows the Giver a place and restricts the Taker.

This IS hard for a lot of us because we have spent most of our lives doing it "our way" and now we are trying to change something in the way we do things because it will ENHANCE, not detract from, our marriage in general and our recovery in specific.

Lastly, while I, too, have emotions and feelings, I "tend" to the more masculine quality of facts, "just do it", and less of the "touchy feely" sort of emotions and responses. Logic vs. emotions. Mars vs. Venus. Men and women are different in many ways...thank God.

God bless. Continued best wishes that things will work out for your recovery...regardless of how long it takes.

P.S. How about a compromise? Gino's East? My favorite for deep dish anyway... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ May 16, 2004, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

ForeverHers,

What exactly do you do for a living? And no this is not a trick question. If you don't mind I would like to know!

Ali

Forgot to add too!

What part of Chicago do you live?

Ali

Ali, I saw the show. It was... hmmm.. well, pretty amazing actually. The way the women were able to forgive. It helped remind me though that there are really people and faces behind the stories. I think it's easy in a forum like this, where there are no faces or voices, to forget that. Like the second woman with the two sons... she seemed so together... so gracious and lovely, I guess is the word! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I thought this Oprah show was better than the last one on infedelity that I saw... where the man and his OW were on the show (ICK!!). On that show, Oprah didn't seem to think it was "that" big of a deal. But it did moreso on this show.

Both men I think seemed fairly humiliated. They were quiet and seemed to have their heads bowed.

I am still so shocked that affairs like this go on so often.I truly don't undertstand. I think we have really lost the sacredness and the ideals of commiment, loyalty, and integrity in today's day and age, and it is truly devestating to society as a whole.

It was very moving to see those two sons break-down and to see how powerfully it had affected them to know their dad had betrayed their mother. Wow.

Anyways, I'm not sure which one of the three journals (diarys?) you were? I think the first one (with blonde hair). I don't know why I think that though.

Those are really hard shows to watch. You could see it in the audience too... alot of shaking of heads and alot of tears as well.

<small>[ June 12, 2004, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

Ali, no I don't mind at all. I am an Insurance Agent, mainly Life and Health.

As for what part of Chicago, I don't live in Illinois anymore. I used to live in the western Burbs. I live in North Carolina now. The two foods that I miss the most are Chicago style pizza and Chicago style hot dogs. But I do love the Smokey Mountains and renting a cabin there for a weekend; beautiful, secluded, and very scenic.

Of course there are many other places that I miss too; Lowry's, Gene & Georgettis, Greek town, China town, the museums, Brookfield zoo, etc. And let's not forget the Billy Goat tavern...grin.

<small>[ May 18, 2004, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

Hi LMX,

The show was supposed to be based on the second couples recovery. Amazing isn't? The boys were really sweet and sincere. I was disturbed when Oprah asked Mr. Fabsman would he cheat again? And his reply was; "It isn't possible". I was like what? What do you mean it isn't possible? I guess I was looking for a more heart felt answer than that. The first couple when I met them in the green room very, very nice too. I think we all were a bit nervous. We kinda rehearsed what the questions Oprah was going to say to us so we were prepared. Fortunately, because the show ran out of time she didn't get to us. We even taped a second show I got to say on camera that I needed all the details to heal But Jamie seemed to be naturally shy. Very quite. Poor guy after the show, I spilled coke on him! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
As far as the video diary? I have reddish blonde highlights but I am not blonde. I was the first one that was aired. And of course They use the "I am angry part"! Then the other section seen with my hair up at six in the morning which was a Saturday! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

But there will be another show with the Farbmans and another couple and Linda and Fred. You saw Linda in the diary, I believe she came on after me.

Forever,

What part of the west burbs? Are you from here?
My sister used to be one of the dolphin trainers at the zoo! I wish she was still there because my kids would have really enjoyed behind the scenes.

Chicago hotdogs are pretty good!! In my opinion it sure beats out the New York style. Billy Goats? Greasy, greasy annd greasy. They opened one up at Navy Pier. But anyway, I love it here. Winters are a pain but we have so much. Calfornia does too but we have the attitude! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Ali

Ali, I don't know where "here" is to you, but for me it was the Naperville/Wheaton area. Spent most of my life there until 10 years ago when we moved and became "Southern Rednecks with a Yankee twist"! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Now....let's talk Cubs! And what's with Sosa sneezing so hard he threw out his back?!?

<small>[ May 18, 2004, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

Hi Forever!
I had my boarded my horse in Bartlett while I was living in Palatine! I am from the North shore originally.
Gulp! Sosa! I am a White Sox Fan. Good guys wear black! I have been to Wrigley field twice in my life time. Comiskey Park is where I have been at least once a year. Whoops, new name, US Celluar Field which was remodeled. Thanks to who ever decided that the new park was an eye soar! Looks better now. Who knows with Sosa. It just amazes me that the Cubs are not doing as well as they predicted. Humm could it be bad managing??? But again, it is still somewhat early in the season. Who knows maybe Sosa went to Billy Goats and got a chip stuck up his nose? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ali

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you know which one was me? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ali,

I wasn't sure which one was you. There seemed like one who was angrier than the others, but I hadn't read all your previous posts or known your complete story. (Guess I haven't completely figured out all there is to know about this discussion board). Maybe you were the cute one? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I haven't seen anymore shows that list infidelity (in Oprah's preview info) yet. It seems that they only list it the day before the show. The rest of the time, when I search on Oprah, I get series/special for the info.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...a women who claims she'd be gone if her H. cheated.... But we tried to explain to her you don't know until it happens to you! ...because...I said the same thing! I still think that is one of the reasons why I am still stuck! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I too used to tell myself that if my W ever cheated I would be gone in a heartbeat...guess I found out differently. (I think that was one reason why I have never had an affair, knowing that I was susceptible to them and would not want to cause that kind of pain?) At least I didn't catch them in the act. I can't imagine what that would be like nor would I care to. Everyone is different though.

About being stuck...is your H working with you? I've read the book Torn Assunder and that was a huge help to me. My W & I are about to go through it together to "process the A." That was one thing I felt that the MC and Harley books didn't cover well enough to suit my needs.

Hi Forever,

Which one was the cute one???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I know I looked pretty bad in the video. My friend said I looked pasty. Actually all of our videos did not do any of us justice.
But anyway, Last week in our MC I broke down and told him a deep dark fear of mine. I am trying to be vulnerable to him again. But I don't think I can lay down and show my belly to him. I have done somethings that 3 months ago I know I wouldn't have been able to do. Before the A.? I was always there, sending him notes, e-mails, cards. A romantic said of me. I guess that is how I am just a big mush for romance. But I feel that our relationship is 80/20. Not with the card or material things (I am not really materialistic) I feel I give and give and give. And promises were again made once he found a great job..he would then focus on our marriage. Well, it has been almost a year. I see no major difference. He is great with helping me around the house. I will never argue with that. If he folds the towels differently than I do, I am glad because at least he is doing them right? I always tell him how much I appreciate all the work he does. I tell him all the time that I am soo proud of him at his new job. He is doing extremely well and when he comes home usually at 7:30, he has a big smile on his face. And no way do I do any LB'ing to him because he finally found happiness in his career. So what I am yacking about is that I am doing the same old for him and I am not getting my needs met. I am feeling a bit lonely. Same old pattern here. We dicussed this in our MC and he is just not getting it that a marriage is give and take emotionally.
Do you think I need to adjust myself and realize that he is married to his job? Will that book help me?

Oh fooey, there was one more thing I wanted to post and I can't remember.

I am having a really bad day and I am not even PMS'ing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Ali