I just got done reading STOP YOUR DIVORCE by Homer MacDonald and I found it to be very interesting and informative. He encourages a lot of actions that really seem counter-intuitive to what many posters have advised me. I am not advocating those ideas but he did bring up one very important point. He states that every time he sees a wife wanting a divorce from an unwilling husband there is always a third person ( not necessarily an affair partner) in the background. This person can be either male or female but is often unhapppily divorced themselves and is either subconciously or consciously encouraging the WS to go through with the divorce.
He states that their needs to be a plan of separation initiated. My wife has EXACTLY that in her new best friend ( that she accompanied on the cruise that started the affair). Has anyone else had this experience? How can I try to separate this demon and her influence on my WS???

Hi Cymanca,

In my case,my WH had a whole bunch of cronies up in Toronto(where he was working at the time) supporting his adultery with the homewrecker,especially the guy that introduced them.

Of course,I had spent time having dinner with these people,who I thought were friends,when I went up to visit WH with the children.His job was a place where infidelity was rampant so it was seen,somewhat,as expected or "normal".Ewww.

Anway,if I were you,I would talk to this person and tell them something such as you love your wife very much and want to save your marriage and work on the problems that you are having.In other words,if this person were to see how humble and caring you are toward her,it might make a difference to that person with warped views.But,it also may not.It's worth a chance though if you can pull it off.

Again in my case,not only couldn't I talk to the guys wife(that introduced my WH to the homewrecker) because she didn't know what was going on,but this guy also cheated on HIS wife and never told her.So when I called their home,I was always met with resisitence: "Why the f*** did she call our home??!!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> So much for that "friendship".I think it made the guy think about what he did, that he is keeping this big secret from his wife and I might have stirred the pot or something.

Anyway,point is,it may be out of your control what this friend is feeding your wife and all you can do is look like the man with all the integrity and dignity.That matters to most but will not matter to people who can commit adultery or support it.In the end,it's not always worth trying to make these people see that,they can't.

Good Luck.

O

<small>[ June 10, 2004, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

10girl,

Thanks for your reply. I am trying to think of a good approach that will not make the situation worse. Ironically, my wife has always felt that this "friend" was always too interested in me( I always discounted that because my wife thought everybody was a threat). I have not spoken to this person since everything has occurred. I had angrily and justifiably sent her an email at the start denouncing her major role in my WS affair. I just do not know if I can appeal to her sense of "integrity" and letting her make her amends in this manner.

Assuming this woman has any integrity to begin with,it's worth a try right? But,she will either be swayed by your good natured attempts to save your marriage or she will twist and turn what you say into something sordid for her own agenda.It's a gamble.

Say,how's the "bachelor's pad" working out these days? You've moved in by now I gather?

O

P.S. I just went back and read the previous post you mentioned about the e-mail.Do you think your WW was testing you by making you think it was this friend sending it,the joke? Hmmmm, that's curious.But I don't think you have to worry about plan B being broken.You were scammed and didn't know it was her.Most of us having fallen off the Plan B wagon before for various reasons,you just have to get back on.

<small>[ June 10, 2004, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Yeah, I have moved in. Very quiet. He is also a doc so we see very little of each other. It is nice to have a feeling like I can go "home" at the end of the day. I don't think my WS knows where I am staying, I really have not told anyone.

Something happened yesterday that I would like some input on. Last week I went fishing in Mexico. While sitting around the pool I replied to a question by a couple of young ladies a few seats away. We struck up a conversation and it turned out that one of them had a surgical problem and I gave her some advice. This was all done in a very matter of fact way. The woman and her friend were funny and I truly enjoyed talking to both of them. Yesterday I got a bunch of flowers sent to my office with a note from one of them as a thank you. The note read " It sure is hot in Mexico", which is what I had been complaining about during our conversation.

Unfortunately, my WS happened to walk into the office a few moments after the flowers were delivered. I was not present, I was at the hospital at the time. My WS asked if the flowers were for her but my receptionist said the card was unopened. Well as you can guess my WS immediatedly opens and reads the card. Without a word she replaced the card and walked out of the office.

Yesterday my WS called, paged and left messages for me saying she had a couple of questions to ask me. I avoided all calls and in the evening I went over to a married friends( we have always been close to in our marriage). The phone rang and it was my wife asking for me. I was caught in an awkward moment so I answered the call. It started off pleasant but with in a few moments she started accusing me of not caring that a computer that I had fixed was not working properly. She insisted that I come over to fix it myself. I answred in a very calm soothing tone but her voice got louder and louder until she was almost hysterical. I reminded her of my promise never to return to our home unless it was as a husband and wife working on their marriage. I then told her that I had to go, expressed sorrow for her computer problem and hung up. As I looked at our mutual friends faces, they appeared ashen, they could obviously hear her tone and possibly even the nature of our conversation. Her husband said that he could not believe that I could control myself as well as I could during that diatribe.

Their opinion was that the conversation had little to do with the computer but everything to do with the flowers( I had told them the story after the call). What's you input in regards to this hysteria?

Well cymanca,it's a no brainer for me.Your WW was jealous.

After being here for 8 months, it seems to me that although our loving spouses go off and cheat on us,they don't dare entertain the idea that WE,BS's,could ever find someone again.They want us to be sitting at home waiting in the wings.

And,after telling us how insecure your WW has been all along,beauty or no beauty,there are the makings of a blowout,in which a computer snafu was the reasoning albeit a false one I'm sure.

On a side note,I have to say I was a bit worried when I read that you had "company" at the pool(there's fish in a pool?? lol).If you haven't surmised already,there are people out there that can smell "single man" or "in trouble married man"(or woman) in an instant so beware at this critical time in your life.You may take a fall before you even realize it.

O

10girl

Fishing was done for the day. Usually it finishes at about 1:00pm, the fishies don't like bright sunlight.

Believe me when I was talking at the pool your previous warning(truly) popped into my head. Like I said before my marriage is the THE most important thing in my life. I hope that I would never be tempted to jeopardize it in this way. Like all BS, I hade early visions of a revenge affair, but just the thought was too upsetting. I thank you again for your concern and warning. Maybe you should just send me a warning post every couple of days(ha,ha)!

I am glad my warnings played out in your mind.Although I don't want to imply that you would get invovled with another woman right now,I just wanted you to be aware of other's that may tempt you,insidiously even,at this vulnerable time.If you aren't acutely aware,then you won't know it can happen right? Now you do.

Oh and I messed up on the fish/pool statement.I fused the two lines together and thought they had some wierd pool of water that you could fish from in Mexico!LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Duh.

O

Just got a call from a mutual good friend of mine and WW. She had called my WW to find out how she was doing. My WW is scheduled to leave the country for 2 weeks with her mother and an aunt in another 2 days. This trip has been scheduled for over 1 year so I have no suspicions on its true nature. My WW relationship with her 62 y/o mother fluctuates between having to treat her like a child( making all her decisions, what to wear, what to do, when to do it) to open scorn. Her aunt( divorced 5 times) is just coming off a 3 week hospital stay after her last husband left her. My WW had been openly complaining to me over the tremendous strain this vacation would cause and how she would do almost anything to get out of the responsibility of acting as the "tour leader". My WW chafes any time she must follow any one elses schedule other than her own.

Well, to get back to my story, my WW told her our friend that she has never stopped loving me, did not want a divorce, and said that we would have been back together except for my stubborness on sending the OM a no contact letter( which per previous post she had agreed to in our one MC session after the affair was revealed). Our friend told me that my WW was sobbing the last half of her conversation and said she thought that things could be worked out. She then thanked this friend for being the only one that had told her to get back to working on the marriage. In all the conversations with my WW this is the first time she has uttered anything about her love for me and the fact she does not want a divorce.

I am expecting some attempted contact from my WW before she leaves on this trip. That would give her either reassurance that I am still there for her or to prompt another fight that could fuel her psyche enough to get through the trip. My plan is to avoid all contact, as I have been for the last 8 weeks. Because of her travel plans and being a novice in regards to email, this will make it impossible for her to contact the OM and at the same time put tremendous pressure on her to to take on the " I am taking care of everything" role that I had always played on our previous trips. I hope abscence DOES make the heart grow fonder

I find it ironic that she views your requirement for her to send a NC letter to the OM as being stubborn on your part when she is the one being stubborn for not sending one. If she wants to rebuild the marriage then why should she care about what OM thinks? Is it more likely that she does not want the OM to think that she is still wanting to rebuild the marriage? Fog talk from her in my opinion.

Another thing that struck me as odd. Why would you want to fix the computer that she uses to contact the OM? You did the right thing be telling her that you would not fix it in my opinion.

You may want to start pulling away some financial support from her. Let her see what it will be like to live on the OM's cruise ship employee salary instead of a surgeons. I have to smirk at that one even though I know that it is not funny to you.

Good luck and God Bless.

MFisher,

I have started to cut her off financially, but she has parents with a little bit of money and they will give her whatever she demands, and demand she will. In regards to her position with the OM, I just hope it is the "fog" talking because some of her latest talks with our pro-marriage friends seem to indicate that after 8 weeks she is seeing things in a different light.

I don't know how much I would want my WS back if one of the primary reasons is money.

Cym,
You know what is weird to me??? I don't usually think in these directions at all but, didn't you say he was an Employee of a cruise line????

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....my thought keeps saying contact the cruise line and let them know they have employee who's sleeping on the job!!! NO pun intended, EXPOSE this rat! Tell them about his continued intrusion on your LIFE and M.

They will probably give him an ultimatum.....might really help ya out!!!!

And about your W, after you notify OM's employer!~~I would plan A her to death.
JMHO

Blessings,
Atruheart

Hi Cymanca,

It sounds as though your WW had a moment or two of possible regret for what she is doing and IMO she just picked the NC letter to focus on as to why she isn't coming back to you.That is more rationalization on her part,refusing to really accept the sole reason why she is in this predicament: herself.

All I can offer is to not read too much into what this friend told you.Many or most of us have heard these statements from our WS's all along but they have yet to change their bad behavior and actually make a decision to work on the marriage.

My WH is still feeding me these statements every so often,which hurt and confuse me,but I try not to take them to heart.He still hasn't ended the adultery.So my point is to just be wary and keep your heart guarded.It would be great if your WW was coming out of her fog BUT it may be just a false sense of return.Until she actually makes the changes necessary for you both to have a chance,you should treat her the same.Stay dark.You're doing alright.

O

<small>[ June 14, 2004, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

ATRUEHEART

I did think of that in the first few days after I found out, even composed a letter to the company. Couldn't send it! As much as I have anger toward this OM, my betrayal was from my wife. That is what destroys me!

10Girl

I know you are correct about false hope but after being dark for 8 weeks, I am looking for any sign that WW is responding. I have and will continue to stay dark especially since she is away for 2 weeks. Unfortunately I am leaving back east for my mother's 80th birthday in a few days and I am desparately keeping this from her and the rest of my family save one sister that I confided in. I plan on flying back a few weeks after to tell her in person. She is not in good health mentally or physically and I do not want to ruin the celebration all of the children had planned.

Interestingly, my WW has a fantastic relationship with my mom, much better that with hers. I know it will impact my mom deeply when I tell her( I have no intention of telling her about the A , just that my wife and I have grown apart)

Hi again,

I know what you mean about wanting to see some sign or glimmer of hope but it's disheartening to know that most of the time,these little snippets of regret or emotion aren't what we expect.They often lead nowhere which is why most of us do not place much value on them and take them with a grain of salt,as they say.

You have to remember one very important lesson here: *actions speak louder than words*

Anyway,I do hope you have a safe journey here to the East coast and that,for a moment,you can forget about your troubles and share in the joy of your Mother's birthday celebration.

O

10Girl

Thank you for your very kind words.

Since I have you on the board can I ask you a question from your female perspective? For the last 4 months before the A my WW and I were trying to have a baby. She has a medical condition that really makes pregnancy difficult, so we were also talking about adoption. That is one of the very puzzling questions I have about the A. How can a woman go from wanting to have a baby, and then turn around and perpetrate this betrayal?

Hi Cymanca,

I wish I had some insight into what you asked but in order to do that somewhat effectively,I would have to be thinking like a betrayer,a woman who would commit adultery and I do not know what that is like.

But,I have a suspicion though that could in some way explain one reason why and it may be that having difficulty with conceiving brought about feelings within your wife that made her turn to another man for comfort because she feels she has let you down.Her depression,aimed at herself for the medical condition she has,preventing her from conceiving more "normally",has lead her away from what she may see as a very painful situation and one in which she cannot face: you and the marriage.

On the surface,you might think well,"she should have come to me and I would have supported her and loved her thoughout this time" but in HER reality,she may find this unbearable.

Now of course,there are so many other variables that can come into play that I am only remotely sure that this had any bearing on what lead her to betray you.Four months trying to conceive really isn't that long in the grand scheme of things but again she may have blamed herself for having this pre-existing condition.Women in general I think feel responsible for everyone's happiness while their's takes a back seat most of the time.We are taught this as young girls.

Being a woman,I know from awarenenss of myself that we can deal with our difficult situations in an unusual way which may not seem logical to the average male.One prime example is the often used word "Nothing" when we are asked what is wrong.But in our minds,something is VERY wrong and our husband or boyfriend hasn't understood how to glean the answer from us in the way in which we percieve to be the best way in order to discuss it.

Anyway,I suppose I just don't have an easy answer for you as much as I don't have an answer why MY WH betrayed me too after having what I thought was a very happy home life and marriage without discord or problems.Many of us are constantly on the look out for those answers.If we knew for sure then we can somehow make it all better.You can't fix anything until you know why it broke.But I digress.

I know that this probably wasn't particularly helpful.But one thing that is almost guaranteed though is that if your WW flees this marriage and her problems,whatever she perceives them to be,without working on them now,they will follow her around like a little black cloud until she faces it and deals with it at some point in the future,if ever.That is why I am a firm believer in staying in a marriage to make it work to the best of both parties abilities.If we all just keep hopping from one partner/marriage to another,thinking the solution is to just be with someone else,then the D rate will never decline and marriages and families will continue to be destroyed.It's a sad future for our children and their children.

O

<small>[ June 14, 2004, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Hi. I'll jump in here again. I have seen about 4 or five couples trying to get pregnant, where the wife cheats. Must be a self-esteem thing or something.

I think one man and his wife even went in for a try at invitro fertilization that failed, and then his wife had an A.

Women expect to get pregnant and when they don't, I think it shakes their whole self image.

10girl

Wow, for not having a lot of perspective ( as a WW), you sure gave me a lot to think about. Thank you so much! I agree that understanding what happened from the BS perspective is just as important as the WS coming out of the fog and getting back to reality. I will have to admit that females are definitely different creatures(in a good sense)when seen by us males.

Thought that I knew my wife pretty well, she was always saying she hated that I could predict her so easily. Guess I flunked the final exam!