Ginger, I think the link expired, here is another one to the same article but from different source.

Another link

Might be the same you alredy read.

All the best
FBOW

thanks great article I cut and pasted parts of it and sent it to my H,hope he will read it and a light will go off in his head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hi Ginger, I am sorry I don't get back in a more timely manner. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I keep thinking about the problems you face, and the only thing I can come up with is you may have to force someting if you want change. I can't see any way to do it without making waves - and neither can you or you would have already done it.

I know money is tight, but I think you could benefit from calling Penny for coaching. I understand he won't cooperate with that, but I think Penny could give you a direction to try. It would mean more work on top of what you have already done - how do you feel about that?

I can tell you wish with all your heart you could be close to him, and confide in him. I wish he understood what you need, and would give it to you.

That's all I can come up with after thinking about it - someting drastic (like plan B) or call Penny for coaching and see if she has a suggestion. I bet she will - you know she is good at this.

We continue to pray for you - wish I could be of more help to you.

SS

Hi Gingersnap.... I know and feel your pain. I wish I could run to your place and beat the s*it out of him till he understands. Just remember you have wonderful children who love you dearly. Put yourself first. Start with little steps and progress forward. You do not have to immediately leave him but everyday do something for yourself to make you confident in your abilities to survive on your own if need be. You are a beautiful person and your H needs to wake up and see his wife before it is too late.

You have my love and prayers always. I will try to call you this week again. It will be okay. It will work out to some solution.

Take Carfe and God Bless. Talk to you later. Maxlo

Thanks Maxlo
And that is just what I have began to do.
I started walking almost every night 1 mile,this has really helped me.
My teen daughter is back home so this is keeping me busy and bringing laughter back into my life(along w/headaches LOL)
I am taking my time but have let him know how I feel every step of the way.

I also know that he will probably never change and I have accepted this.
I did tell him the other night that it was up to him to make me fall back in love w/him so we will see if he does anything about this or not.
I told him I care about him and will always have love for him but right now I am not in love with him and it is his own doing.
All he said was "I know you are not in love with me" and walked away.

I guess only time will tell.

Cant wait to hear from you.
Call anytime.

Oh Ginger,

I wish things were better for you. I've been lurking for some time but not writing to anyone. Sorry I've been gone so long. Things with my H are so much better than last year. I wish the same for you.

I've been reading this thread and think that SS is right (as usual). Here are some suggestions:

It's time to wake him up. It sounds like he's very much OK with the status quo even though you are not.

Maybe it's time to do something different, something unexpected.

Maybe it's time he got the feeling like he's losing you. He can't "make" you fall in love with him again. But he can find out what you really mean to him by facing him with the possibility of you not being in his life. It sounds like he's certain you will always be there for him. What if you weren't? Would that motivate him to do something about it?

How does this sound? How far would you be willing to go to jumpstart him?

I have told him that I am leaving after my inventory at work.
The reason for this dead line is that my inventory is very important to me and I am not going to let anyone or anything take it from me.For me it is like my yearly report card on how well I did my job.
I feel like I have had so many failure's in my life that I need one success and this is it.
My job may seem like nothing to him but it is the one thing that has kept me going all this time and as it is I will have to leave it when I move.

Anyway I dont think he takes me seriously about leaving he talks more like we are going to have a long distant M for a while.Well I do not trust him enough right now to have that so when I leave in my eyes(weather he wants to see it or not)we are going to be in a trial seperation and if he does not do anything during this time to improve our relationship then I guess its over.

I have found a new strength and I think he is seeing it but he does not act like he cares.
Who knows maybe I am not important to him at all that is just something I will have to learn to deal with.

Thanks for the reply and it was good to hear from you again,so glad things are going better for you.
Take care

Ginger,
This is pretty heavy stuff. How are you feeling?


SAB, glad things are better for you. Does he get it yet, or is he still just reacting to your lead?

SS

How am I feeling?? hmmmmmmmmmmmm

I am ok most days,other days I am angry at this whole mess.
I have stopped thinking about all the past yrs and feeling like I waisted my life.
I have my kids,my grandkids and I have the rest of my life.

I found out today that there maybe someone to take my place at work when I decide to leave,this made me feel better.Funny I should not care about my job once I am gone but I do.This is just me I am very commited and I guess that is why I have stayed in a not so good M for so long.

I guess I do still keep hoping that he will change and start acting like he cares more for me than his computer.

I can not make him change,he has to do that himself.

Thanks for asking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ginger - (((hugs))) - you know that I am here for you - always a phone call away.

Stay strong and focused my friend - you are a wonderful woman who deserves the BEST in life - I also wish I could slap the [censored] to "wake him up" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You and I have had long deep discussions regarding this, and you know I am here for you -

congrats on your 1,000 post

LOL didn't notice I hit the 1,000 mark,does that make me an official MB'er
now....LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Thanks my friend for all your support.

<small>[ June 18, 2004, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: gingersnap ]</small>

Yes, you are official! I just made my 10,000 mark...guess that makes me officially nuts!

LOL
Well you may be nuts but you are sure needed here.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi,

SAB, glad things are better for you. Does he get it yet, or is he still just reacting to your lead?

Yup. He get's it. I've stopped leading altogether. I've taken the less is more approach. The less I do, the more he has to. We're definitely more like the team we used to be only better. The best thing that happened was him going away to the east coast for a week for a conference. I know that goes against Harley's teaching about absences in marriage, but it had the opposite effect (positive) on him. Had never left the province before, never seen the ocean, never been on an airplane more than an hour, had no choice but to meet people...Now he cannot complain about never having done anything or gone anywhere. It wasn't me holding him back after all. (I was pushing him out the door.) It was himself and his fear. The trip gave him the opportunity to miss us terribly.

Our S turned 13 last week. That makes 2 teenagers.

Our oldest is graduating tomorrow from grade 8 and starts highschool in the fall. Which one will be determined later because her acceptance into a school of the arts is upon condition of a clear pass. I'm not sure she has it. Unless someone has been after her to do her schoolwork, her motivation isn't there to do it herself. Last week she must a schooltrip to Quebec City with her class because she was behind. Instead of catching up on her work, she chose to make cookies instead <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . She'll have another opportunity to audition next year. But, it will be much more difficult to get an acceptance in the higher grades. The sad part is the waste of the opportunity of a lifetime. She wants the glory but not the work. At this point she reminds me of Star's daughter in Indonesia, having to follow her from class to class.

Yesterday, he found out that he has high blood pressure. (Hmmm, I wonder where THAT came from <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) He knows he has a lot of work to do on himself to change things. He's started attending church every week with us. He also wants to organize some church events starting in the Fall. It feels good for me to have all of us sit as a family together in the pew. Father's day was great. How was yours?

He still wants to control things. But I remind him of his/our boundaries and let him make his own decisions from there.

Enough about me. Ginger, I am so glad that you can do these things in your life and have the strength and the ability to walk away with your head held high. I'm so proud of you. You've done everything you can. Sounds like an informal separation may do you both some good. Unfortunately it also sounds like he's in a deep fog. Hopefully one day he'll get his head out of the clouds and realize what a wonderful person he has within his grasp before it's too late. Do I sense correctly that you are justifiably tired and are ready to stop doing any more? If so, be proud of yourself and your efforts to save and carry your M for as long as you have.

{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}

<small>[ June 21, 2004, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>

Thanks SAB

My H tells me things like we need to be apart,we are not good for each other,I hate this life and so on.
Well by sat I was tired and I once again told him how I felt and my plans to leave.

Something must have stuck a nerve because he was different yesterday,he did not get on the computer we actually spent time together,we went out for dinner,rented and watched a video then went out to the pool.He even came to bed at the same time as me.
Called me today and thanked me for such a nice day.

But dont get to happy I came home from work and he had been on the computer ALL DANG DAY and did not even finish the few things I asked him to do for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I told him in kind words this is why it is so very hard for me to keep doing things for him,because I get nothing in return.

If only he could do good for more than just a couple of hours we might be able to make it.

Oh well I am still planning to leave in Aug.if nothing changes by then.

Good to hear things are getting better for you SAB <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm glad you had a breakthrough. Obviously the man you married still exists somewhere beneath this alien shell. He sounds so much like the guys I've read at Michelle's Divorcebusting site on Mid Life Crisis. He seems to be off somewhere out there while his body resides here. They call it an "alien abduction" at the DB site. It's eerie to see how they all seem to follow the same pattern and script.

It sounds when push comes to shove he does chose you over the computer. This may sound crazy but maybe he's having an "affair" of sorts with the computer. He spends all day(?) most days on the computer. It's like an addiction with him. Maybe it's time to get rid of the computer and have no contact so that you can work on your M. You do mean something to him because of his behaviour when you told him about leaving. I would call a couple of hours in the right direction a baby step. Maybe concentrate on that because that may be all he can give right now.

You're right to give yourself a deadline. It's so difficult to go on in limbo indefinitely. You've given your all. You're tired, frustrated and itchy to get out of this state. It's time for you to move on with or without him.

If only he'd be more consistent with his behaviour. My heart goes out to you.

Take care.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ June 22, 2004, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>

Yes in a way the computer is the OW right now.The thing is it is a trigger daily because this is how he was when he was involved w/her,always on the computer working on his website waiting for her to come online.

If I got rid of the computer he would run out and buy another one the next day thinking he could not survive without it.It is like food or water to him.
He thought his digital camera got stolen last year ran out and bought another one because in his eyes he had to have it for his "business",about 2wks later I found his other camera.
Well this year his new camera really did get stolen and we were in the car the next day to go and get another one he could not survive without it.
I dont think I could deal with anymore expenses due to his computer and everything that goes with it.

The last few days he is back to his old self.Oh well those few hours were nice.

I guess the only consolation of having a computer as an OP is that you know where he his and mostly what he's doing. I wonder what Harley would say about this kind of addiction. Any thoughts anyone? What about Plan B? Or this that what you are already doing by stating your intentions at the end of August?

I wonder what he would have done during the major blackout we had last year which affected all of Ontario and the northern US...

I guess the best that you can do is continue making the best life for yourself that you can. At least you live in the land of the living and not solely in an electronic world. They can be so daft it's sickening.

Maybe it's time to act as if he has "died" and no longer a consideration in your life.

{{{{{{{{{gingersnap}}}}}}}}}

The computer is a horrible addiction.Will his web-site ever be completed?How long has he been doing this?Does he chat with people while he's doing his web page?. It's pretty hard to live in same house and pretend your spouce died.It's close to impossible when he's very much present even if he's on the computer.It's hard to pretend he's not there. Especially when your just waiting for a little attention or a small conversation so remind him your there. Your deadline is August?Then your moving? Sorry for so many questions...

I guess if I am able to go thru with my plan to leave in Aug.it will be kind of a plan B.

He was off today and we ended up in a big fight with him walking out the door and leaving.
He spent all day yesterday and today with other people and on the computer,I get so tired of everything being about him.I listen to him talk on the phone puffing himself up saying how much he cares for the people he works with,how much he cares for this community.If he would open his eyes and see that who he needs to care about is his wife and kids then life could be better.

I hear him say to our son that only his family will care about him in the end,all the so called friends will not be there to bail him out when he needs it.Well I feel like saying the same to him.

He makes me feel like I am stupid,and I dont like this.I saw him drink 2 24oz cans of beer,then he comes in the house and makes a whole picture of mixed drinks,I say you just had 2 beers now you are going to have more to drink and he looks at me like I'm stupid and says "I didn't have 2 beers and the drinks are to go with dinner."
Maybe it is just me and I am the one with the problem!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

When ever he drinks like this we end up fighting I tried pointing this out telling him that when he drinks it ruins a perfectly good day,he comes back with none of our days are good!!!!!!!!!

I guess I should take this as a hint that he really does not care about anyone but himself,maybe he ended the A but the selfish acts that go with and A he still has. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />