About finding the OM:

Call his former place of business. When they say he's no longer there ask for a forwarding number. If it's a big company ask to me connected to his former dept and try to find his former secretary.

Tell anyone who inquires that you're a college/HS friend that is just trying to reconnect and this is the last number you have.

Also if you have an old work number, look at the prefix to the number, the first 3 digits. Ther are sites on the internet that'll show you a map of the area served by the prefix. More than likely OM lives in a 45 minute radius of work.

This will cut down on the white pages list.

OK Now your loaded for bear. Happy Hunting!

cwmac

Gone for a couple of hours. Will check back at approx. 3pmEST/ noonPST

cwmac

Dilemma -

We have airline tickets to OK for tomorrow. Going to see father in law and stepmother for the weekend. Grandmother is arriving at my house at 1pm. Flying out with us. W gets back home at 8 or 9 tonight.

Do I go?

Homer,
Back briefly. I would go. Remember you want to go on with life and marriage. No ultimatums. Try not to have relationship talks during the trip. Bite your tongue.

If she brings it up, it may be to get you riled up so be aware that that may be her aim and act calmly. If you act the complete opposite of waht she expects, she'll be at a loss.

BTW, start to quietly go over financial records. Credit cards and the like. Never know what you might find.

Have you considered going to the Dr today regarding AD meds? Coach suggested Lexapro. I was on it but it has a sexual side effect. Takes a very long time to finish if at all. I'm now on Wellibutron. No sexual side effects.

Go to Dr or walk in clinic now!!!

cwmac

cw -

Thanks, this trip has been weighing on my mind. However, I'm still not sure that I really want to go. This could be miserable and awkward for all. Four days of playing nice in front of the in-laws will be tough.

Not going to Dr. for ADs. Too early for that. I feel fine and I'm in good control of my emotions.

Spoke to her this morning. She called me at the office. She's on her way to the airport. Great. I was pleasant to her, but not gushy. Didn't talk about the situation. She kept asking me if there was anything else. Not going to bite on that one. She didn't try dropping the I Love You bomb on me. Apparently yesterday she didn't get the response she wanted. Actually, I would prefer not to hear it - I'd rather see it from her.

Homer,
I say this with compassion bc I've been there but...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This could be miserable and awkward for all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes and no. If you let her make it miserable for you, it will be. IOW, if you play into her hand and react to her comments or silence, then yes it'll be tough. If I were you, I'd stay away from relationship type talks. If she brings tham up tell her how much you love her and you're looking forward to MC so that the marriage will improve.

If she is having an A, she'll be watching you this weekend, the more LBs there are from you the easier it is to rationalize her behavior.

The more wonderful you are in the face of this; the more she'll be conflicted and feel guilty. It may not happen overnight but it will.

BTW, is there a history of infidelity in her family that you are aware of? Sometimes that can be a factor as well.

Any luck on the cell phone front? How about the OM's telephone number?

BTW, don't assume that she won't call OM from your house or that he won't call. Now that she knows you are suspicious she may be more bold in calling him for moral support. Eventhough her call to him would appear on a long distance bill it might not if she's using a phone card or a company calling card. Right?

During this time period my W called her OM almost every hour from her cell but he returned calls to the cell as well as the house.

Any thoughts on the recorder? You may also you may get secondary info from the recorder. She could listen to v-mails at work from OM or you could find out about her plans indirectly thru conversations with a third party.

You could try calling her v-mail at work or her cell voice mail and seeing if you can guess her password. Try your bank pin #, her bday, last digits of soc sec #, numeric street address or the typical strings ie 1,,2,3,4 or 4,3,2,1 or 6,7,8,9 or 9,8,7,6.

One day when my W had the flue and didn't get to her cell phone right away, I turned it on and saw a v-mail was in her box. I dialed. It asked for the password. First guess was the pin #. BINGO! I got to hear a whiny v-mail from OM saying how much he missed her, that her smile was like the sunshine, yadidee, yah yah.

That was the first time that I knew the feelings were mutual on his part.

Anyway... enough about me.

Keep workin'

cwmac

Worth a try? Especially try during odd hours

cwmac

Sorry -

Daycare called. My son had a little accident, so I spent the afternoon at home and the Dr. office. Nothing serious, just a cut on the head. Had to come back in the office to take care of things in case I decide to go tomorrow.

Tried to reach the OM's secretary earlier today around lunch. Got her voicemail. Left no message. I'm sooooooooooo tempted to call his wife. A-hole!!!!! <<Sorry, but that's what I think of him>> I 99% sure that I will. W gets home at 9:30 - that will determine for sure when I make the call.

Phone usage -
Tried to access her cell account online. Missing her Co's TIN, and forgot to get it while at home. I think that's the missing piece I need to get in.
This guy won't call her at the office. Too many people know of him - It would raise eyebrows. She works for a small company as well, so everyone knows what is going on with everyone else, and they're religious about forwarding calls to her cell # - from anyone. Besides it seems like everybody in the world knows her cell #. Our phone rarely rings at home.

Picked up her paycheck today (had to, I agreed to before I found all this out and I stick to my word -really p's me off - sorry, bitter boy talking). Was hoping to get the TIN off the stub but it wasn't there. Then I got the call from daycare. Sorry - son comes first - I'll have to table this for later.

They won't use the home phones either, trust me. The easiest way for her to contact him is via cell. She runs up 1100-1200 minutes per month, if not more, sometimes double. Her personal calls will be buried in amongst the rest of them.

Still haven't decided whether or not to go this weekend. So many choices, so little time. I now think I have to go. Her Gma showed up at the house, and she's really down in the back, so she's going to need help with luggage (staying down in OK for 2 weeks). I can't walk out on her, she's one of my favorites. I also can't walk out on my son.

Most of all, I can't walk out on my marriage. I think I can "play nice" for a few days. Hardest part will be having to sleep in the same bed with her.

Speaking of -
Been doing alot of thinking about that. She said on the phone yesterday that my idea of intimacy was nothing but sex. I didn't know how to respond until now. Desperation. Some part of me that I wasn't listening to knew already that something was wrong, and I was trying to compensate in that way. To her, my idea of "intimacy" was just sex.

Question:
How many of you out there rub your W's feet every night for an hour? Shoulders? Back? Butt? (that was the hard one, trust me) Legs? THEN NOT ASK FOR SEX NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WANT IT??????????? I sound like a horndog, sorry. By the way, she usually falls asleep during this (pick a body part - doesn't matter).

Enough said.

Wish it wasn't so late - I'd like to hear what you have to say.

I guess if I don't post tomorrow I'm on a plane. If I do post, I'm still here.

If I go, I'll be in Monday or Tuesday.

If not, same Bat-time, same Bat-channel.

By the way-

Her mom has been married 9 times, I think. (Seriously). She's now married to a great guy and seems to have her stuff straightened out.

Her brother and sister in law recently divorced. She strayed. She's remarried (to a nice guy - I like him), but they're still in contact. Don't prod me for the Chicago story from 2000. That should probably be a different thread.

Her family situation is very complex and hard to keep tabs on. I care for all of them. They're all good people. Try doing 5 Christmases a year.

Homer,

You are getting some great advice. I too, feel that snooping is not wrong, it is your duty to your child. I just confronted my OM and all hell broke loose with my WW. Be prepared, once you expose the OM your wife will come at you with daggers. Be prepared, take it in stride. You can't even start to repair something until every last lying brick is gone, down to the foundation. And every last bit of denial is gone from your mind. If you assume the worst at this stage you won't get the wind kicked out of you. Get SAA, it will help you understand your WW and the "alien" that she is right now.

Homer,
My preA relationship my W was filled with issues. One was alot of sexual resentment that had built up over the years. I'm sure that my W felt the same as yours. I know I felt as you do.

With us it wasn't as much the frequency as the sameness. W never would try anything new IMHO. She also controlled it. If cwmac was a good boy he got patted on the head and got sex. If he was a bad boy then it was w/held.

I've read tons of books on infidelity as well as marriage. I have a suggestion for you. Go buy Men are from Mars...Women Venus" Read it. It is very good. It describes why men and women miscommunicate. It'll also show your W that you're a new man.

Remember that's part of Plan A: to be a better person and spouse. Showing that you're willing to work on you as well asthe M.

Eventually once the A is over and recovery is well under way you can get the sequel..."Men are...Venus in the Bedroom." Very good for the issues you've referenced.

I wish I had read these books as a new H back in the 80's.

Nine husbands....holy ****. That says alot right there. Your W has seen an example of a person who never works on a marriage. She just divorces and goes out and finds someone else. Women however rarely want to be their mothers. Use that. Tell her how important you think it is to work on the M. Say we've got to give this one more shot so that we both can look in the mirror and know that we really gave it our all.

Also remember that people having affairs usually have low self esteem. They find someone who makes them feel good.

Start taking the OM's place by meeting her needs for affection, communication. Read up on the ENs be4 your trip. She may not let you be affectionate but communicate with her. If you need to pretned your just friends so you can be civil to her.

Need a breather since I'm ahorriblr typist.

cwmac

Homer,
I hope the lack of response means you are on your way to OK with WW.

Good luck to you. Post when you get home.

cwmac

bump

I'm back....

Trip over the weekend went pretty well, save for one episode in a bar when I wondered where W was. She had been gone for a while. I was playing pool with my sister in law's boyfriend. I walked around the bar to see where she was and she was at the bar talking to some guy. When she got back she asked me what was wrong. I told her that I was just a little insecure, given what was going on between us. Things calmed down and seemed to be ok. The rest of the weekend went well, we spent the 4th with family and went boating with friends on Monday.

We even went out to lunch yesterday, and that went well too.

Got home from work around 530, and she was on the computer working on something. She seemed a little distant. She said she was tired. I, too seemed a little distant. She asked me what was wrong, so I told her that I was a little apprehensive about the Chicago trip today. I asked her if she had spoken to OM. She said yes, she had. I asked who called who, and what they talked about. She said they played phone tag all day, and when they spoke, it was hi, how are you, how's things going, family, etc. Things went downhill from there.

She said she was "done". She can't live like this. She won't live like this - won't have me asking her about this every week. She also told me she has been on the fence since DD.

All I wanted was to keep an open line of communication between us. I'm tired of internalizing any concerns I have, especially now. I told her that we have to be open and honest with each other in order for this to work. She wants to discuss separation like adults. I told her that she has luggage and she knows where the door is if she wants to leave that bad. No response, save for "I'm not leaving". I told her that I'm not leaving either. It got pretty tense, so I went upstairs to the spare room to have a little quiet time. She went to bed. I slept on the couch.

This morning she left at 6am. She called at 7 to say she got on an earlier flight. That's the last I've heard from her today. Don't know if I'll hear any more.

She's definitely building a wall. OM is not out of the picture.

Had a rather ugly phone conversation with her this morning, while posting my previous comments. She accused me of trying to get into her cell voice mail.

She ended the conversation saying some pretty hurtful things, then hung up. I found her exact comments on some other posts. Interesting.

Called and made a MC appt for Friday. She doesn't know yet. I don't know if she'll go. I hope she does. I'm going.

Back again. Must be talking to myself today. That's ok, its therapeutic.

She called earlier today. Told her about the MC appt. She says she's not interested. I'm still going.

She wants to discuss separation or some kind of "compromise". She also wants me to tell her what that would be. Right now I don't have a clue. Until we discuss the real issue and she can SHOW me that this wasn't an EA, I don't even want to go there.

She doesn't understand why I want to fight for this so badly. I feel like she's looking for the right justification for ending us. She tells me that now I want to fight because its "convenient" for me. NONE OF THIS IS CONVENIENT!!!! I am faced with losing my family because of some choices that were made - by both of us. However, I still wasn't the one that looked outside the marriage, and I never took her hand and guided her to the OM and said "its ok, honey - he can do for you what I can't".

I really hope she reconsiders the MC appt.

Hi Homer,
Sorry you've been talking to yourself today.

You're wife is looking for you to end it. Don't play her game. Women can be such cowards. They usually don't end marriages nor do they usually end affairs. It's always the men.

Anyway...Go to the MC session. If nothing else it shows her your serious about fixing things and you have no intention of taking the "easy way out".

Working on a marriage is just that work. Each party has to work on themselves as well as the partnership. Divorce is way too easy. It hurts in the beginning.

Have you read any marriage or infidelity books yet? "The Road Less Travelled" is another good one. It discusses love vs in love. Love is a decision while being in love is a felling caused by chemical reactions in the brain. All those "amines" running around in there.

cwmac

I am a fww - Homer I think it is good you made the counselling appt. you need to go - your wife needs to go too, but I think you are doing the right thing going alone at first if she does not wish to...especially having such a young child, you have to do everything you can to save your M,

As for snooping - you did the right thing, went with a gut feeling, and you needed to know the truth

The miscarriage is a big thing, how did you handle it? how did your wife handle it? This may have been the thing that sent her over the edge to this EA

Please be patient with your wife, she is confused, Plan A her, take her out on a date, tell her why you want your M to work, try and get her to think about everything there is to gain by staying together -

Try to get her to do the emotional needs questionnaires with you - they do help open up communication - find out maybe how you can deposit in her love bank and fill some of those needs that the OM has been filling

keep posting - it does help, there are so many people on this board who have been there and have great advice - Sandy

<small>[ July 08, 2004, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: sl000 ]</small>

Thanks to both of you. It makes me feel good to know that someone out there listens.

I have no intention of skipping the MC. I need to talk to someone face to face about what's going on. I don't know what to expect. W reiterated last night that she has no intention of going with me. That hurts. But, she has no problem taking 2 hours out of her busy schedule to get her hair done. Priorities, I guess. I told her that I hope its the best money I've ever spent. Insurance doesn't cover it, unless the Dr. diagnoses me as clinically depressed. It wouldn't be a stretch, but I am hoping for no meds right now.

I'm 99% sure she hasn't ended it with the OM. It wouldn't do me any good to look at email, she should be totally deleting it at this point. I did get a look at a text msg on her cell phone from him. Delivered last night at 6:15 or so. We were in the other room talking, but I know she read it. He really needs to work on his word choice. It said something about one of her present clients (his former coworker) called and she looked good -and then something about "buying the cracker just 2 get u". Anyone know what that means????

If this keeps up I'm calling his wife. She deserves to know.

She still blames me for what happened. I asked her why she chose to go down this road. "Fun", "Exciting", "different" was her response. She also told me that she could not make the choice between her "friendship" and our marriage.

I feel she is trying to push me out. From what I understand this is common. She brought up separation or divorce because she "doesn't want to be 80 years old and look back at her life as a waste" <<something like that>> She also said that she would always love me no matter what but she's not sure she even likes me right now. I just echoed it back, its true, but I also told her that when we get through this our marriage will be the strongest its ever been. She doesn't believe me. She still thinks that I'll never get over it.

Miscarriage -
This was hard for us. We went through so much just to get our son. We had 6 on ice for our next try, which was early this year. Lost 2 in the thaw process, implanted 2. Of those, we lost 1 right away, and the other continued on as a blighted ovum - not viable. In early March, we had a D&C done. It was horrible for both of us. I'm still down about it, and maybe that's one of the things that contributed to this situation.

Last night she told me she begged for us to go to counseling after the miscarriage, and I said no - you don't need counseling. She says I said it in front of one of her friends. This can't be true.

cw -
Yes, divorce is way too easy. Her mother has been married 8 or 9 times, and from what I gather she left her husbands for other guys most of the time I think. Could this be a learned behavior?? I can't bring it up - too sensitive of a subject.

I want to take her out on a date, but I'm wrestling with a number of things right now. I don't think its truly over with the OM. She tries to say hurtful things to me to try and set me off. I feel like if I took her out she would think its all BS.

Maybe I'll let things cool off for a while, then ask.

Last night was bad, very bad. Her friend from the above post came over and had dinner with us. We had agreed that I would ask her about the counseling question from the past. I did. Her response was a flat "no". I hadn't told her that she didn't need counseling after the miscarriage. Not in front of her.

We agreed to not discuss or fight about our situation. She went to bed. I stayed up. I checked out her email. There was one from OM regarding their "proposal" to not be flirtatious with each other. Aside from professional discussion, he wanted to add something to their "proposal":

"How about limited text and e-mail for one month with no calls (unless very important). Communication will not occur on the weekends or evening (times we should spend with others). After the one month we will discuss and see what if anything has changed. "

Next line was:

"I think this is a happy middle ground because there is no way I can go cold turkey with you."

And then:

Your thoughts on this or do you just want to stick with the original. Be honest.

Her reply was:

"I can live with that........the only thing that I will add is that text & email are to be kept “professional & friendly”.

Good thinking Dr. xxxxx...."

His reply:

"Yes – I was thinking that and meant to write that into my proposal. I am leaving at 3 today so enjoy your weekend and please let me know what happens with your chat with (her boss). If I come up with any good thoughts about that I shall let you know.

Professional and Friendly after this one thought – I was going to write something but I am holding back. Friendly and Professional."

I blew it. Woke her up and asked her what was going on. Did they agree to "cool it" for a month and let things blow over with me and then pick up where they left off?????

It got really ugly. She looked me in the face and said she hates me. She wants a divorce. She doesn't want me around "her" son because I'm dangerous to him.

This morning we agreed that I would move to the spare room. I asked for 3 weeks to try and work on things. This is the best separation I can offer at this point. I'll work late, but we agreed to try and take at least 15-30 minutes a day to talk. Small talk, anything. If things don't seem to be better after 3 weeks, we'll discuss divorce or legal separation.

I'm terrified right now. Is there any hope?

Last night was bad, very bad. Her friend from the above post came over and had dinner with us. We had agreed that I would ask her about the counseling question from the past. I did. Her response was a flat "no". I hadn't told her that she didn't need counseling after the miscarriage. Not in front of her.

We agreed to not discuss or fight about our situation. She went to bed. I stayed up. I checked out her email. There was one from OM regarding their "proposal" to not be flirtatious with each other. Aside from professional discussion, he wanted to add something to their "proposal":

OM:

"How about limited text and e-mail for one month with no calls (unless very important). Communication will not occur on the weekends or evening (times we should spend with others). After the one month we will discuss and see what if anything has changed. "

Next line was:

"I think this is a happy middle ground because there is no way I can go cold turkey with you."

And then:

Your thoughts on this or do you just want to stick with the original. Be honest.

W reply was:

"I can live with that........the only thing that I will add is that text & email are to be kept “professional & friendly”.

Good thinking Dr. xxxxx...."

OM reply:

"Yes – I was thinking that and meant to write that into my proposal. I am leaving at 3 today so enjoy your weekend and please let me know what happens with your chat with (her boss). If I come up with any good thoughts about that I shall let you know.

"Professional and Friendly after this one thought – I was going to write something but I am holding back. Friendly and Professional."

I blew it. Woke her up and asked her what was going on. Did they agree to "cool it" for a month and let things blow over with me and then pick up where they left off?????

It got really ugly. She looked me in the face and said she hates me. She threw my clothes in the hall. She wants a divorce. She doesn't want me around "her" son because I'm dangerous to him.

This morning we agreed that I would move to the spare room. I asked for 3 weeks to try and work on things, for our son. This is the best separation I can offer at this point. I'll work late, but we agreed to try and take at least 15-30 minutes a day to talk. Small talk, anything. If things don't seem to be better after 3 weeks, we'll discuss divorce or legal separation.

I'm terrified right now. Is there any hope?

I still love her. I don't care what it takes. I want my best friend back.