Oops! I have another question:

About three months before D-day I went to a business conference for three days in a nice resort. I had asked my wife to fly with me, but she had been in a rotten mood and said no. So I go by myself and after one day she suddenly shows up at my hotel door. This was a huge surprise for me--------- we immediately embraced and had sex right away. Not bad for 30 years of marriage (I thought).

Unfortunately I had premature ejaculation that day and I could tell she was somewhat disappointed. When we flew back home she said she wanted more sex and excitement out of this trip, but everything was OK. She also said she was relieved because she did not find me with another woman in the resort. In other words she was suspicious I could be having an affair. I guess folks judge others based on their own perspective.

In any event after D-day I asked my wife to explain why she flew to meet me at the resort if she was having a torrid affair. She said that during those days they had broken up. In fact on her way to the resort she received numerous calls from the OM pleading with her not to see me in the resort. In any event, she went back to the OM and the affair intensified from visits every two months to every two weeks.

Of course I feel awful? I have the feeling my wife wanted to recreate the frenzied and highly exciting sex encounters she was having with the OM with a husband that had been around for 30 years. Had I known I was being tested I would have certainly done better!

I just cannot understand her behavior. I know she was guilty at times.

Is this sort of thing common?

Okay, I'll play.

I'd like to know what in the world people think they're doing with comments like, "Get over it" and "move on with your life."

I'm tempted to write to Miss Manners with this question, but I'm more likely to get an answer from you, Cerri, so you're it. Could you channel Miss Manners on your reply? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Just J:
<strong> Okay, I'll play.

I'd like to know what in the world people think they're doing with comments like, "Get over it" and "move on with your life."

I'm tempted to write to Miss Manners with this question, but I'm more likely to get an answer from you, Cerri, so you're it. Could you channel Miss Manners on your reply? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gentle Reader (you did ask me to channel Miss Manners <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ),

Miss Manners is not able to read the minds of others or to ascertain their thought processes or motivation. She suspects, however, that such thoughtless comments are driven by their feelings of pain for your situation and a desire to see you do all you can to bring an end to that pain so they can get back to their apathetic lives (ruled by football and shopping) and no longer be bothered by a nagging concern for you.

She also suggests that you can derail such comments with a polite, "yes, so you've already mentioned," accompanied by a vacant look and an immediate change of subject. Or if the person persists a chilly, "how kind of you to take an interest," once again followed by a change of subject should suffice.

Cerri,

Wow, your point about conflict avoidance is so on point for my situation. If I'm honest with myself, my X and I were both conflict avoiders. At some point I realized this, and I spent years - at least 4 or 5 - asking my X, a lot, what was wrong. His answer was that nothing was wrong, and that there must be something wrong with me, because he was fine. Anytime I tried to discuss things with him, he would say whatever he needed to get out of the discussion; sometimes he just agreed with me and then went on like nothing had been said, sometimes he would say how he was a horrible person, and he couldn't understand how I could ever love someone as horrible as he was. Boy, if that isn't a way to stop communication, I don't know what is. The talk would change instantly from me trying to get him to communicate with me, to me crying and re-assuring him, telling him I loved him, and going back to ignoring the issues.

Here's the thing I want an answer to more than anything though.... how can I keep this from happening to me again? It isn't that I think I was perfect, that I never did anything wrong in the relationship.... but I did try. And I couldn't get from him what the problems were. He wouldn't tell me. I was supposed to guess. And I never guessed correctly. And in the end, the only answers I could get from him were that he never really loved me, and that he just needed someone WORTH changing for (huh? I wasn't asking him to change - just for us to communicate and compromise!) and that I was a horrible person. But what I supposedly did that was so horrible is something he refused to share with me. The most solid answer I ever got from him as to why all this happened was that my hair was curly when we met, and that I quit getting it permed, and he didn't like it straight.

Wow, I hope that doesn't ramble too much. I guess to ask my question in a more succinct way... how do I examine my own actions, and change my own reactions and behaviors so that I don't find myself in the same situation again with someone new? How does one do that when she truly doesn't know what she was doing wrong? And when I try to get opinions from friends and family, and they assure me I didn't do anything wrong....it was all him. I'm afraid to even try again, because if I don't know what went wrong this time, how can I keep it from happening again?

Stanley,


My wife was very upset because I had I insulted the OM. My wife told me it was not that much money anyway. She felt I came across as a cheapskate to the OM!

Infidelity is a tragedy. But you know, sometimes ya just gotta laugh at the incredibly stupid things that come out of people's mouths sometimes. This is truly a classic. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The one that gets me every time is the straying spouse whose lying, cheating, spending money on the affair partner, and who complains that their spouse betrayed them by snooping in their email. Puh-leeeze.

My questions are:

1. Do some people who are involved in affairs lose contact with reality?

Yep. Every one of them. See here's the thing. A person having an affair is under the influence of a lovely cocktail of chemicals in the brain. A hefty dopamine dump which feels reaaaaalllly good and a decrease in seratonin which increases obsessiveness about the person triggering those chemicals. So, although your spouse looks like, walks like, smells like, and sounds like your spouse - they are every bit as much under the influence as they college kids leaving the party at 2am - pumped up on grass and beer. Simply because your spouse can walk without stumbling and talk without slurring his/her words does not mean s/he is not addicted.

My wife is a smart woman, but her actions and thoughts seem so evil. I know for a fact she is not a bad person. She is very kind and a great wife. Why would anyone behave in that manner for the sake of a roll in the hay?

Well, as John says, it's not for the roll in the hay, it's for a fix of the feel good chemicals. Your wife is not so much attached to this man as she is to the way she feels because of him. She (and any of us in that situation) wouldn't agree, but it's the way it is.

I taught Sunday school, directed the church choir, and probably know more about the Catholic faith than most priests but I went down the path to an affair one little step at a time without realizing what was happening until it was too late. And then, I did exactly as your wife did - lied, became irrational, and put more than one family at risk.

C

Oops! I have another question:

Sorry, you've exhausted your quota for the day..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Ok, ok, just kidding, ya gotta let me have a little fun here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


Is this sort of thing common?

Mmmm.... .what sort of thing? The running back and forth or the trying to recreate with a spouse the excitement of the affair?

The former, definitely. When you read the books like SAA, or Shirley Glass, or Pittman it would be easy to think that affairs end and when they do they're over. Real life is not so clean and neat. Most that I've encountered do this back and forth thing for at least a couple of turns. It is absolutely horrific for the betrayed spouse, and I suspect it's not so great for the straying partner either.

I really believe that people don't change until they are confronted with the fact that not changing is going to be far more painful than the work of change itself. What that means for infidelity is that people don't end an affair until staying in it becomes more painful than leaving. This is why confrontation and exposure are so incredibly important - and doing them sooner rather than later increases the likelihood of success. (And contrary to popular and erroneous opinion immediate confrontation and exposure are the basic blocks of Plan A.)

If you remember that an affair is an addiction - then you can see the parallel. Think about a smoker trying to quit - or, if you really want to know what it's like, give up all sugar for a week. (I did this once, it was NOT pretty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) So yeah, the on again off again dynamic is pretty common.

Now, the trying to recreate with a spouse the excitement of an affair? Not so much - at least not in my experience. In fact that doesn't even feel like the right explanation for it. To me it seems more like it might have been running from her inner demons calling her back to her affair partner and trying to quiet them with frantic sex with you. If she's willing to talk about it, ask her if that resonates at all, I'd be curious to see what she says.

C

Penguin - the weekend is at hand and I need to unplug the computer from my brain. Here's a link for you with an article I wrote about conflict avoidance - this thread really triggered a lot of these thoughts.

If I don't get here over the weekend remind me that I want to talk about your question about how to avoid this in the future. It's a good question and brings up another myth about marriage and relationships.

C

Cerri:

Your explanations are SO LOGICAL!

I asked her why did she fly to the meeting to surprise me. She said "I don't really know, but I was trying to break up the affair".

You are so right about the fact that she acted so normal. The only give-away was her declining interest in having sex with me. The sad thing is that this developed as I turned 53 and she was 49. I thought that perhaps sex was supposed to slow down. One night I confronted her about the lack of sexual desire and she coldly told me "Things change over time". The thing is---- I slowly adjusted to this new routine and we went from making love twice a week to twice a month during the last three months of the affair. One night she denied me sex two nights in a row and I was very upset. I then told her, “don’t expect me to seek you in bed anymore”. The reason I said this was because all her life she always accused me of not initiating sex and that she was always the initiator.

If you want another weird statement-------------- here is one:

In the last month of the affair we only had sex twice and when she got her period she angrily told me: “Wow we only had sex twice this month, I guess you don’t really care for me!”

Of course at the end OM was flying into town every 2-3 weeks and she was becoming somewhat stressed out. She has recently told me that the trips every two months caused less stress. According to her the stress was because she felt guilty. I guess that is a good thing. When we made love she acted very differently. She rubbed her nose and mouth constantly and in the dark I thought she was picking her nose. That bothered me because to me that was a sign that she was not that interested. However, she managed to have an orgasm and everything else


Regarding the brain chemicals: She freely admitted that she was as high as a kite and full of energy while having the affair. She stated she was VERY INVIGORATED and felt SO ALIVE! A month after the affair ended she claimed to be completely down and lost her libido. She was hypersexual with me during the 1st month. I guess that was not bad.

As to why she was hypersexual:

She claimed she did not want a divorce and wanted to please me a lot. BTW, the love making changed and she became very creative and interested. I must say I enjoyed that phase. Maybe her brain was still full of those chemicals!

She is starting to regain her libido now------------- three months later.

You said that the chemicals in her brain were driving everything. Well------------- I have no other explanation. As I said in another post the OM is way below her category in terms of looks. If these two walk out on the street they would surely turn heads---- a true mismatch. It was truly “the beast and the beauty“. I harped to her how ugly the OM was OVER AND OVER for weeks. I must have given her a TON of love busters, but I simply had to get it out of my chest. She was livid with my remarks and went ballistic when I wrote an email to the OM and told him he was a low-life for accepting the money I had earned to support my family. That is when she said “It was not that much money, he is going to think you are a cheapskate”.

PLEASE, don’t think I am hung up on looks. I mention the above because these two were a true mismatch.

SO the questions are:

1. Why the attraction to such a mismatch?
2. Is there a chance or reconciliation between these two?

BTW, I have not said anything nasty to my wife for three weeks and she is really coming around with sex and romance. However, I still worried. I DON’T TRUST HER AT ALL!

We have not gone to MC and no one knows about this. The kids know something is different.

Cerri:

I am sorry I am such a pain in the tukas, but I have SO MANY QUESTIONS!!

I discovered the affair June 1, 2004, so it has been less than three months. I believe I am doing quite well despite such a short time (hopefully I will not have a recurrence of severe depression or anxiety).

I tried many different things to see if I could feel better and I discovered that talking with the wife helped the most. The other thing that really helps is SEX----------------------------- lots of SEX!

My question has to do with sex and fantasy and I have to give a little background:

I am proud that we maintained an active sex life during the 30 years of our marriage. In fact sex only got real bad during the last three months of her affair when my wife increased the frequency of copulation with the OM.

One of the reasons the sex life never died down in our marriage was the addition of fantasy into the bed. The fantasies my wife liked are relatively common. She pretended to be completely dominating in bed or she pretended that she was having sex with strangers all day while I was at work (and I had to hear about it). The latter used to really turn her on as she would recreate her sexual escapades in bed. Needless to say the sexual escapades became a reality with the OM while I was at work.

Over the last several weeks I noticed a willingness from her par (and my part) to incorporate the actual physical aspect of her affair into this fantasy that we have used for so long. In other words, she will often verbalize and describe her copulation with the OM while she is making love to me. This may sound kinky or atrocious, but before the affair she used to do the same thing-------- the only difference is that it was a fantasy. Now of course, there is no fantasy---- she really had sex with another man and she tells me about it while having sex with me.

Believe or not--------- this macabre method has helped me quiet a bit. In a sense I have sort of transferred the event into the realm of fantasy. We have talked so much about it that now the whole thing is becoming somewhat trivial and easier to accept.

Don’t get me wrong I am still depressed and deeply hurt, but the idea of using the affair to enhance my sex life and to trivialize the event into a fantasy seems to help.

The questions are:

1. Will this method of verbalizing the affair while making love cause my wife to remain in withdrawal for a longer time?

2. Is this the wrong way to heal from an affair?
3. Will this activity push her into having a reconciliation with the OM?

Penguin -

How do you avoid making the same sorts of mistakes in the future? - Interesting that you should ask that. We have this overwhelming myth in our society, bigger even than the "kids will be fine" myth, which says that we can get individual counseling or do work on our own to get healthy and then we'll have healthy relationships. Not so. Not even remotely so.

Being healthy as an individual is far different and requires a different skill set than having a healthy relationship. So, people leave marriages, do excellent self care, learn about all kinds of cool personal growth things, and then find themselves reenacting exactly the same dramas in a subsequent relationship. Why is that? It's because the only way to learn and practice good relationship skills is in relationship itself.

If you've not done so well in that area then there will be a learning curve. Doesn't matter who your partner is - it's not about the other person - it's about you learning to behave in a way that is relationally healthy. And you can only do that in a relationship.

Obviously, there are situations where the other person is determined to do things that damage the relationship, but you cannot know if that's the case until your own skills are masterful. And if they're not and you have to start at the beginner level, then there is no way to get to the masterful level except by doing the (difficult and often painful) work - in a relationship.

A great resource is Recovering Couples Anonymous. I think their site is recoverycouples.org but if not, just search on it and you will find them. There is also a book that's an extension of the work they do and unfortunately I don't have it hear in front of me.

C

Stan -

Why the attraction to such a mismatch?


It's odd isn't it? I see that a lot. The classy woman all of a sudden goes for the trash hauler. The prosperous 40 something business man thinks his soul mate is a 20yo who reads nothing but Danielle Steele. I don't get it either, but I see it more often than not so I know it happens. A function of opportunity and poor boundaries I suppose.

2. Is there a chance or reconciliation between these two?

Well, there's always a chance. It's less likely when it's women who have affairs and whose marriages recover. Women are much less likely than men to stray when they're happy in a relationship. Your best defense is a mixture of excellent precautions and a fulfilling marriage.


However, I still worried. I DON’T TRUST HER AT ALL!

Uhmmm.... yeaaahhhhh.... Three months is a really short time. It takes up to two years to rebuild trust, assuming you both work hard on recovery during that time. There's been a significant breach of trust, that doesn't go away over night.

We have not gone to MC and no one knows about this.
Why not?


Will this method of verbalizing the affair while making love cause my wife to remain in withdrawal for a longer time?

I dunno. It will, of course, keep the affair alive and well in both your minds - so perhaps it will negatively affect withdrawal. You should ask her how it affects her when you're not having sex - does she miss him more or less? Is she feeling more or less need/desire to be in contact with him?

2. Is this the wrong way to heal from an affair?

I don't do right or wrong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I would be concerned about inviting some other man into your bed, which you are doing, without taking the time to learn about the risks and mitigating those as best as possible. Right now, your love life is a little crowded. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

3. Will this activity push her into having a reconciliation with the OM?

My primary concern is not that it would drive them back together but that it would increase the likelihood of her having another affair. If talking about real sex with another man is more exciting than talking about fantasy sex with someone else then when the excitement begins to wane one or both of you may consider adding a third party to the mix again. She may decide to do so just to increase the sexual excitment both for herself with another partner and with you in talking about it.

As a couple, you can do that - but there are extreme risks to the marriage as well as an enormous potential for harming another person which MUST be considered and planned for before you even consider such a thing. And, the aftermath of an affair is really really not the time to even be thinking about it. My concern, as I said, is that you may be setting yourself up for a situation that is out of the frying pan and into the fire in terms of sexual partnering.

C

Cerri:

Thanks a lot!

I talked to my wife and she admitted it keeps the events much fresher in her mind.

So we have decided not to used that pseudofantasy anymore, but the thing is that she may talk generically and it may come out as talking about the OM.

I certainly have no desire to have this fantasty become a reality again, that is for sure.

She also admitted some withdrawal and I wonder if she still has low libido and uses the recollection of the affair to turn herself on. We are having sex every 2-3 days which is not bad at all. In the 1st month it was daily-------- way better for me! In the firts 2-3 weeks she was VERY TURNED ON with copious lubrication before we even touched---------- now she starts off dry. Sorry about being graphic!

Regarding MC:

We went to see a lady whose method was too simplistic. She simply asked my wife not to see the OM again and then turned to me to show me how to be romantic. She said things like------- "You should hold hands and go to dinner!". The thing is that I always held my wife's hand and we eat out ALL THE TIME. To be frank, she was quite lame. I would like someone who has more insight. Areyou a counselor? Where are you located?

Today I talked to my wife about what was she thinking when she paid for the hotel room of her lover. She became defensive, but said it was not a lot of money and that it felt like the right thing to do becasue the OM was broke traveling a lot to see her. She also paid for airport transportation to the hotel and some meals. Now remember, my wife is very concious about spending money and is always looking to save money. She then said that her actions outside the bedroom were part of the affair package and that this has been done before by other straying wives---------- She did not show much remorse! I explained to her that perhaps she was under the spell of the changed brain chemistry (which she read about), but somehow I don't think this resonates with her.

I feel bad because today's conversation by nature had Love Busters. I certainly don't want to deliver LBs, but I also want her to have some understanding of her actions. I have forgiven her and have no resentment.


Questions:

1. Should I avoid LBs at all cost even if it means not talking about an important subject?

2. How long can the withdrawal last? She claims is better, but was very vague.

3. I asked her if she had made contact with the OM and started to laugh saying I was becoming to silly. What do you think? I think she enjoys this attention she is receiving.

1. Should I avoid LBs at all cost even if it means not talking about an important subject?

Of course. But for clarity's sake - could you tell me what you mean by LBing - I suspect that it might need a little tightening in the definition.

2. How long can the withdrawal last? She claims is better, but was very vague.

Six weeks to six months - longer with renewed contact.

3. I asked her if she had made contact with the OM and started to laugh saying I was becoming to silly. What do you think? I think she enjoys this attention she is receiving.

She might. What kinds of withdrawal symptoms is she or did she show?

I am not a counselor I'm a coach. I do coaching via phone for people around the world.

C

This thread peaked my interest earlier, so I will go ahead and offer.....

I will try to keep it to one big question, though it may be two (or more) parted.

Q. i. How common is it for a woman to be a "serial cheater?"

ii. What is the likelihood of a "true" recovery with a serial cheater?

iii. How much truth is there to the statement, "Once a cheater, always a cheater?"

As a bit of background, my WW is 24. In (almost) 3 years of marriage, she has had 3 EA/PA's, each lasting longer than any time where it was just us. She had "fooled around" (internet, bar stuff) a couple times before marriage. In the event that a huge bolt of lightning struck and we made it to recovery, what is the likelihood that it would happen again?

Ooops... A bit more than I had intended.....

And thanks for doing this!!!

Ethan

Cerri,

I know you are very busy and I really appreciate your comments( I have read them all on this thread).

I am in Plan B and I am at a loss on what to do but even more so in understanding my WW actions especially of late. I have posted in GQ2 " Can Someone Translate For Me". If time and your patience permit, I would greatly appreciate your take on my situation.

Thanks in advance for your input and wisdom

cerri - I have another question. There seems to be a recurring theme of the WS not wanting to tell the whole truth even after they admit to the affair. This seems to hinder recovery for the BS, but the WS can hold out forever. Why hold back on the whole story if they know it will help recovery even if it is more painful in the short term? I see this over and over and every book I read on the subject says that the WS should be willing to tell the whole story if the BS asks for it if they want to move forward in recovery.

Cerri:

Regarding LBss:

My wife read about the Love Busters (as defined in this site). Therefore, she calls a Love Buster anything I say that she does not like or agree with.

She also says I am showing obsessive behavior towards her and I feel this is true. Since D-day I have become hypersexual and have fallen in love with her once again. Or perhaps as you said--- went from the late love stage into lust and romance. This was OK at the onset, but once she hit the withdrawal it was way too much. I told her that my brain was like her brain was with the OM while she was having the affair, but she said nothing.

It is a very strange feeling to be VERY DEPRESSED AND ANGRY and completely in love at the same time. She admitted to me that this hybrid behavior threw her off completely. Of course, lately I have not expressed much anger or symptoms of depresssion.

As for symptoms of withdrawal:

About six weeks ago she told me she felt empty and that her zest for life and enthusiiasm had died down. She freely admitted she missed the daily phone calls and emails. She was also sad at the prospect of not seeing the OM anymore and the fact that there had been zero contact for so long. I mentioned to her that perhaps the OM had a heart attack or stroke and she panicked. I could tell my wife still had feelings for the OM. During those days she had very little interest in sex, but still attempted to have sex with me to make sure I was satisfied. Those few weeks were not that good because she was not interested in having an orgasm.

Over the last 2-3 weeks I have seen improvement in her sex drive, but she is not as hot as after D-day. And------- as you know we had started to use the affair to turn her on in bed. I like to see her excited, so I went along with it. This activity also trivialized the affair while we were not in bed. She would even talk about ithe affair in a jokingly manner during routine conversation.

As you know she just turned 50 and is worried about getting old (she could pass for late 30s). She still has her period with no signs of menopause, but she knows there are not that many good years left. Why in the world did she waited for so long to have a PA? I think age had a lot to do with it.


Regarding the mismatch:

Opportunity played a big role. They met thru classmatess.com. The guy was not local and she didn't want the pressure of dealing with a local person. OM was a friend from high schoool whom she never paid any attention when they were in school.

Shortly after meeting over the internet OM visited my city on a business trip and called W. My wife and daughters went to meet him (with some local OM family) for lunch at a local restaurant. My wife took her camera and took photos of the group. When I saw the guy in the pictures I was not concerned at all. I thought he was not the kind of man my wife would fall for. Well I was wrong! In one of the emails I intercepted towards the end of the affair my wife said that she liked what she saw and decided to come on to him.

I must say my wife adores the feeling of having a man admire her 24/7. She is very feminine and loves the so-called romance. She probably thinks the last stage of love is a very boring and neglectful stage. She craves attention and enjoys to be chased.

I think she needs more counseling than me, but has not shown much interest in pursuing that. She hates the idea of someone judging her.

I guess we are following the so-called plan A, but I have told her very plainly that I would divorce her if she re-starts the affair. I suffered a lot, lost a lot of weight, and could not work or sleep. It is hard for me to believe she would restart the affair, however, knowing that this is addictive------ who knows?

I also don't want to be single at age 53. The pool of available women for someone like me is not great!



1. Should we talk to a MC or coach?

She only wanted to talk to another woman who was having an affair. Otherwise, she is not interested. As i said------ we have kept this a secret!

2. She avoids deep serious conversation, however, she talks more if the mood is joyful or erotic. She admits to have a wall that keeps her from talking to me in serious deep way. How can i overcome this?

Hmmm, If I could have the answer to one question..... I would know immediately what to ask.
Why does did my WW always talk about wanting to come home, or that she'd be home soon, or tell me how much she loves me and misses me, but yet will do nothing to advance herself home.

Good heavens! Does no one sleep any more? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ohhh.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .... maybe the rest of the world doesn't poop out at 8pm. lol

TTSI -
Why does did my WW always talk about wanting to come home, or that she'd be home soon, or tell me how much she loves me and misses me, but yet will do nothing to advance herself home.

To be brutally blunt? Because you're still talking to her, interacting with her, sending lots of enerty her way, and giving her the TTSI/marriage fix that allows her to continue in a behavior that is destructive and painful. If you're willing to be there, open ended, for her while she's out of the house and having an affair then then she is, in the classic MB terms, having her cake and eating it too. Why come home when you can have a little bit of both worlds?

Now, lest you think she's happy in this situation, she's not. She is confused and hurting and probably lying awake at night staring into the dark wondering how on earth she can turn back time and not find herself in this terrible place.

The only way out of the pain of infidelity or any addiction is more pain. She will need to either leave the marriage and try to make things work with her AP or she will need to leave him and do the hard work of healing the marriage. Or, if you both sit on the fence too long (which you are doing) the marriage will die of exposure and chaos will have a lovely time tossing your life around for a few more years. Not a pretty picture.

Most people find themselves in affairs because they think it's a way to fix something icky in their lives. Maybe they're lonely and the woman at the front desk gives them a nice smile every morning. They want more, so they hang around and chat. That's good too, so they go out to lunch. Pretty soon it's dinner and drinks. Add a little dancing (leaving one car at work - there's no reason to pay gas for two - feeling the exitement of knowing this is going somewhere but not looking it fully in the face...) and before you know it they're in bed together. This goes on for weeks or months, but the lying and the hiding and the terror take their toll. Little by little this smile in the morning that made their day a little brighter has turned into a nightmare of epic proportions. They've developed infatuation/romantic feelings for this person, but they have deep attachment to their spouse and their marriage. It's a terrible terrible place to be, and the only way out is more pain.

To the person having the affair it's paralyzing. They only wanted a little sunshine in their lives, starting with the smile in the morning, and they're still grasping for that. Frantically trying to get back to that place and wanting desperately to avoid more pain. So they're stuck. Caught between a spouse who knows but is being "nice" and "patient," and a lover who still, once in a while, triggers that chemical high and who is also being "patient." It's painful, but not as much so as needing to choose. So they talk to the AP about leaving the marriage and being together and they talk to the spouse about coming home. But they DO nothing. Except hurt.

As long as the spouse gives implicit messages that let the straying partner keep this up, most of us would do it for a really long time. The message all betrayed mates need to send from the moment of discovery or suspicion is this, AN AFFAIR IS NOT ACCEPTABLE FOR ONE MOMENT.

In our house, my husband knows that one hint of an involvement with another woman and will tell the world. (And I have a pretty large audience) His parents, his daughter, his boss, his coworkers, and then there's that little web site and ezine list..... This is not a threat, it's protective measures stated up front. He also knows that there is no way in heck I would do this erroneous Plan A thing of "being nice" - you have an affair you're out of the house and I'll take care of my life until you come to your senses.

On the flip side of that - my friends, advisors, and colleagues and I have strong agreements that we will confront each other immediately if something looks wrong. I would expect them to expose me in heartbeat if I were to become involved with another person. None of us is immune - even the most rabid anti-infidelity flag waver can go down this road if there are not precautions and awareness. Knowing what would happen makes us all much less likely to find ourselves in compromising situations. For me, my credibility and my career would come to crashing halt - I'm not willing to risk that. Without those precautions? Who knows, I might just get too far beyond the smile in the morning.

Expose, confront, eliminate your worst destructive habits, get into Plan B. Send the message that you will not play in a triangle. And that as soon as the affair ends permanently you are willing to talk about the conditions for reconciling. Until then, get a life. Go out with friends, reinvest in a hobby, quit obsessing, and take care of yourself and your kids.

You have to remember that an affair is an addiction. The chemicals created in the body and which act on the brain are every bit as powerfully addictive as the ones we inject, ingest, or inhale. Think of the alcoholic promising s/he will stop - only to do a more thorough job of hiding the bottles. Not until continuing the addiction becomes more painful than giving it up will the addict be ready to go through the painful process of withdrawal, grieving, and healing.

C

Furnitureman - ok, so I'm dying of curiosity - do you make furniture, sell furniture, restore antiques? (One of our favorite weekend pursuits is to make the rounds of the furniture and antique stores.)


Q. i. How common is it for a woman to be a "serial cheater?"

Unfortunately, more and more common than it was. Newsweek's July 12 cover story was about women having affairs - and the fact that they are drastically on the rise. Peggy Vaughan (The Monogomy Myth - www.dearpeggy.com ) has done some new research about how the internet plays into that dynamic. Women who never would have had an affair in the past are meeting people on line and then either engaging in emotional affairs or actually meeting and having sex.

ii. What is the likelihood of a "true" recovery with a serial cheater?

Depends - the consequences of their actions will need to be more painful than the chaos of their lives while they go from affair to affair. In short, they need to hit bottom. When that happens, which it will eventually for almost everyone, they'll either die, recovery, or stop their behavior but move to another addiction.

I think the likelihood of recovery has a lot to do with having good resources and caring people who will challenge the serial cheater to make better choices. It also requires designing supportive environments that drive the necessary change - not just talking about it. This means extreme precautions going forward - the ways in which she engaged in these affairs needs to be closely examined and completely eliminated. There needs to be a mechanism for transparent honesty and accountability, and both partners need to be willing to ride out the storm.


iii. How much truth is there to the statement, "Once a cheater, always a cheater?"

Human beings are creatures of habit. If we do something and it works ("working" being very subjectively defined) we tend to repeat it. Having an affair feels good at the outset. The high of connectedness, the blush of new love, some people go for that. Some go for the rush of sneaking around. Once someone has had an affair, if they don't examine and change the conditions that led to it and allowed it to continue, they are likely to have another. On the other hand, if the experience is really awful and they come out of the fog long enough to see the destruction all around them it's possible they will create their own precautions so they don't go there again.

With your wife being as young as she is and having so many affairs in such a short time I'm inclined to wonder about a lot of things. Sexual or other abuse in her background? Addictions in her family? Circumstances surrounding your relationship? How the first one started? Stuff like that - I'd want to peek inside her head.

In the event that a [b]huge bolt of lightning struck and we made it to recovery, what is the likelihood that it would happen again?[/b]

Depends on how willing you are to abandon being nice in favor of protecting your marriage and how much she got hurt in the process of having these affairs. Without her feeling pain from the experience and/or without you willing to set and maintain firm boundaries prior to reconciling the likelihood is high that she would do it again.

Ethan

Huh. Is that where the furnitureman name comes from? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

C