My WW was doing plan A and things were going great! Withdrawal seemed to be going away and she was attracted to me again.

However, I just found out OM has been calling my home every few days to chat with my WW for at least six weeks. W claims this does not affect her withdrawal and that she has no plans to restart EA and PA. She also claims conversation is dry and sterile and devoid of romance; however they talk. Duriing this six weeks W has gained her libido back and we make love all the time. Wife claims I have nothing to worry about.

OM keeps doing this after my wife and I sent stern emails asking not to call anymore (many weeks ago). I have the feeling my W wants to hear from OM to see how he is doing (he is from out of town, not local). OM seems like a clingy guy and is putting up a fight regarding the idea of leaving my marriage alone. I suspect W likes the attention from OM even if she claims there is nothing to worry about.

Should I notify the police? re: stalking This OM is a cop in another state.

My W does not want to change home phone number because she had to give explanations to our grown kids as to why she changed her cellular number. She feels the kids smell something is wrong. Her affair is still a secret----- I promised my wife not to tell anyone.

Should I place a phone call to the OM rather than to sent him another email?

HELP

<small>[ September 10, 2004, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Stanley,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just found out OM has been calling my home every few days to chat with my WW for at least six weeks. W claims this does not affect her withdrawal and that she has no plans to restart EA and PA. She also claims conversation is dry and sterile and devoid of romance; however they talk.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Three weeks after D-Day, I found out for certain that WH was still talking to OW. He said he never saw her or had sex with her after D-Day, but for some reason felt that "just talking" would be okay. Although, he knew it wasn't okay with me since he lied about it whenever I asked him if he talked to her. The only defense he has given is that he wasn't sure things would work out with us. (Wonder who he got that idea from?)

We had been doing okay, and we were being very sexual but there was still something missing. He didn't talk much about the future, just one day at a time. When I found out about their communication, I gave him the either or speech and meant it. If he ever saw or talked to her again I was done, and I meant it. He never spoke with her again. And you know what? Within a few days, I felt that he was "with" me. Wanted to plan a vacation, talked about our future etc...

No contact is essential! Your wife doesn't have to talk to him, she could just hang up, not answer or change the phone number. Do whatever it takes. She can explain the affair to the kids if she can't come up with another reason for changing the number. Crank calls? Unlisted number?

Cathy

Stanley.. 4x2 time

RUBBISH!!!

your w is playing you again. She may even be fooling herself, but she IS playing you.

So she has an affair, says she will do nc, now wants to stay M to you AND have a boyfriend?? but please oh please dont do anything that will alert our kids & family/friends to what I'm doing?????
COME ON STANLEY ITS TIME TO WAKE UP!!

This is how she started the A I guess, conversations etc etc..... do you want her to start all over again? Because she is well on the way to starting it again!

As for the sex, let me say my W & I had some of the best sex during her A, I just didn't know about her A. I still think it was her method of keeping me under control while she did her 'thing'. So what does that tell you!!!

Your w has stated you have nothing to worry about?? How many times did you hear similar during her A???
You have a lot to worry about if this contact continues.

You say you promised your W not to tell anyone of her A... well isnt that a lovely passport to allow her to do what she wants. YOU have to keep your promises but aparently she can break hers & maintain contact??? Cathy said it already, she can HANG up EVERY time he rings..he will get the message sooner or later & then if he does not stop....ring his police bosses re stalking.

Stanley you need to sit your wife down & gently & firmly explain all this to her. Ask her to consider if the shoe was on the other foot, if you had an A and was still in contact with the other woman how would she feel?

Cathy is right - You need to do the either or talk my friend & MEAN IT!!!!

Your w is cake eating AGAIN, she wants you & the boyfriend.

You need your wife to make a choice, you & the M and NEVER talk to the om again or divorce and the boyfriend..there is NO middle road here.
you need to tell her that More contact will = you exposing A and seeking separation once and for all.

ENOUGH is ENOUGH!!

If not then he wll be in your M until the A starts over again. Its only a matter of time.

Stanley. I'm really not into the ultimatum thing much but there are places & times for it..this is one IMHO.
Look inside yourself and see if you could go thro all this again, I know I couldn't, time to end it one way or another. Is this how you want to live the rest of your life?

You have a hard choice to make, but from your posts I reckon you have a good chance of your w cutting the OM off.
If she agrees, make sure you get the phone bill to see its happening.
In the end this is YOUR choice Stanley, you have to live with it. For me I couldn't as it is.

Sorry to hear ahout your set back. We need to be strong and express how we "feel" to our spouses. This is the main thing I have been learning through counseling.

Aussie2 said it was some of the best sex ever. I agree totally. In the heat of my WW EA (before I knew) we had sex 4 times in one week. Never in our 10 years of marriage did we ever have sex this many times in one week. This was one of the tip offs.

The other day I found pictures of the OM on our PC. They were sent via e-mail that day too. I'm going to address this soon. It's that "Everything is going so well, why should I bring this up now." feeling.

Just_Friends_NOT

If you don't want to give her the "stop all communication or I leave" ultimatum, you could give her the: either stop all communication with him (caller ID/voice mail option is cheap, less than $10/mo, and a caller ID phone is $10...YOU can take all the VM messages, she can not answer if any number pops up she doesn't recognize in case he calls from a different phone) or you change the phone number and tell everyone why ultimatum. I can tell you my own story of how the difference between little contact and no contact affected us, but I would just be repeating what others said.

This is the one area where the POJA does not apply.

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Thanks to all! The posts were VERY HELPFUL. My wife reluctantly agreed to read them all.

First of all she was very irritated because I said the OM called every few days. She said it was not that often. I explained to her that did not make a difference as long as he was calling. She assured me again that despite the OM phone calls she will not start the affair again. She claims to be different and that all these rules do not apply to her.

I was livid and kept talking to her about this issue. She then said that the fog was lifting and that she was seeing the OM in a different light. Wow! A major breakthru! She had never said that before!

Well------------- it turns out that about three weeks ago she received a phone call from a woman who was the original OW when the OM was actively cheating on his wife. Yep-- he was seeing both my WW and the original OW at the same time. My wife told me she felt betrayed and highly disappointed as the OM had told her over and over again that he had no one else on the side. I can retrospectively see that my wife’s libido improved since the time she received this phone call. My wife also claims that because the OM lied to her she will never go back to him.

I went ballistic and did the typical “I told you so!”. Since D-day I always told my wife that the OM had another woman in his city and my wife always defended the integrity of the OM with great fervor!

I will keep you posted! She still tries to defend the OM as she feels all my negative remarks about the integrity of the OM in one way or another also apply to her. A very touchy subject, but how do you keep your mouth shut?

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> she feels all my negative remarks about the integrity of the OM in one way or another also apply to her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">err... they DO. At the very least, they condemn her judgement. Accurate? Yes. Helpful? When coming from you, no.

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

I know the rule of thumb for BH is not to put down the OM. However, sometimes the OM is such a lowlife that one has difficulty keeping the trap shut.

I think my wife does not want to admit her judgment was poor. She now claims her self-esteem is finally where it should be and admitting that the OM is a piece of crap will hurt her ego. BTW, I believe her self-esteem is high because I did not leave her and the OM still calls. She loves the attention!

BTW, when the OM calls he says he is worried about my WW self-esteem. He claims to be in charge of keeping her self-esteem up. I bought a book about self-esteem where it clearly indicates that no one can give another person self-esteem. That is something one earns by being a person of integrity and by positively impacting the life of others. The ultimate good self-esteem is when the exterior reflects truly the inner self. Obviously having and affair and cheating cannot enhance the self-esteem, but she simply cannot see my point and has not touched the book (Called Self-Esteem for Idiots).

If I had cheated on my wife and she wanted to say nasty things about the OW it would not bother me at all. The last thing I would do would be to defend the OW in front of her. I would even add words of insult to the OW in front of the wife to gain brownie points.

Why are WW so sensitive about negative remarks about the OM?

I will answer my own question:

I think a primary requisite for infidelity by a WW is low self-esteem. Therefore, they cannot handle a negative remark very well.

Hi Stanley's wife.

Don't have talks with your OM!

If he calls and you answer the phone, simply use your index finger to push down the phone cradle button. Then place the reciever on the phone cradle.

The OM may talk for a couple seconds to the blank line before he realizes no one is there.

After a few times.....he will just stop calling you!

(I do this to crank calls too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

You can do it Mrs. Stanley. I know you can!

Stanley (and others) I'm a FWW and wanted to add my 2c.

Your w has the FWW's dream, being able to find out how he's doing. There won't be ANY withdrawal while this little fix is going on. NC means NC means NC and THAT is when withdrawal starts - when the reality that this person is never going to cross your path again.

The "hot" sex during the A with the BS I believe is because the libido is so heightened by the A that sex becomes "hot" not just with A partner but with the betrayed partner. May not be so in all cases but definitely was in mine.

Why the WW hates to hear negative things about the OM. Because the WW knows it's true and it is a horrible feeling to know you have been used by a total jerk. Much easier to be in denial - a self esteem issue I suppose because everyone likes to be liked for themselves and to know you've been used for "whatever" purposes is hard to face.

And Mrs Stanley, as 2oak used to say "what part of no contact don't you understand" or words to that effect (I think it was wittier than that).

Jen

Jen (KIWIJ), et al:

Thanks for the support!

My wife refused to come back to the MB board to read the rest of the replies. She claims all of you don't really know what is inside her head.

I emailed my W the response by Jen and W mailed it right back to me saying:

"TELL JEN TO F---- OFF!"

I assume what bothered her the most what the statement that I may have simply said the truth about the OM. In fact all derogatory remarks about the OM that I made were actually based on events my wife related to me. I simply list what the OM has done and my W becomes very upset.

It goes without saying she was hot about the statement regarding the meaning of NC. This is especially sad because from day one I had always mentioned to my wife that NC was the key to marriage recovery. Now I find out she has been lying to me all this time and once again I was in the dark and she and the OM knew the deal.

W claims she lied because she knew I would be very upset if I learned the OM was calling.

In addition my W claims she is forced to listen to the OM on the phone because she is afraid OM may do something real crazy. Apparently this guy may have stalked a former OW when he was married. The other day my wife received a phone call from a former OW who said the OM had a lose screw and at times did crazy things. For example when OM was married he would actively prevent the OW to break it off and date other men.

I told my wife I was going to call the phone company to see if they could block the calls from the OM (I know where he calls from). However my wife told me not to bother because she had already called and they could only block calls from the state. My wife says she told the OM I may change my home phone number. Apparently the OM said not to bother because he is a cop and he could find out the phone number.

I was going to tell you to get a machine to tape your own phone calls (many answering machines have this feature), then make sure your wife tapes all their calls (find out first from a lawyer in your state if this is legal - depending on the state, you may have to inform him you are taping the conversation or get a court wiretapping order if you want the evidence to be admissable), and then file a restraining order and send a copy of the tapes to his boss - if he makes the threat about finding your phone # he will soon be an ex-cop. You can file a restraining order in any case.

However, the real problem seems to be that your wife doesn't really want to break contact. Deal with that, first. The rest are details.

<small>[ September 12, 2004, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
In addition my W claims she is forced to listen to the OM on the phone because she is afraid OM may do something real crazy. Apparently this guy may have stalked a former OW when he was married. The other day my wife received a phone call from a former OW who said the OM had a lose screw and at times did crazy things. For example when OM was married he would actively prevent the OW to break it off and date other men.

I told my wife I was going to call the phone company to see if they could block the calls from the OM (I know where he calls from). However my wife told me not to bother because she had already called and they could only block calls from the state. My wife says she told the OM I may change my home phone number. Apparently the OM said not to bother because he is a cop and he could find out the phone number.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IF your WW is telling the truth the she should have NO second thoughts about filing a restraining order against him and to have a copy of it given to his superiors. From that point on, if something happened to her or you, he will the prime suspect.

Another MBer, Knewbetter had an affair with a man who CLAIMED to have been a cop but only turned out to be a violent stalker posing as one. You may want to seek her advice.

There you go Stan, the perfect reason to change phone numbers..

phone stalker been ringing the house, change the numbers, ban calls to & from that state, & ring & tell tell your family the new number right away with the reasons why - stalker - and that please do not give it to anyone without contacting you first. Don't need other details.
Also follow Johns suggestions... caller ID/voice mail option is cheap, less than $10/mo, and a caller ID phone is $10...YOU can take all the VM messages, she can not answer if any number pops up she doesn't recognize in case he calls from a different phone.

There, that helps your W and allows her NC doesn't it??

If he does get it then, there are only two ways. Someone gave it to him, he got it illegally which I think in your country is both a State & Federal offence he being a Police Officer.

Then there is the possibility that if she stops taking his calls he will start leaving threatening messages on your answering machine or in your voice mail...which would be great, from a legal standpoint.

<small>[ September 12, 2004, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Wow Stanley that was a bit harsh from your w to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> She does know I've been there, done that and got the scars, doesn't she?

I know that here in NZ misuse of the phone (stalking, obscene calls etc) is taken very seriously and the phone company will do all they can to protect the victim. I imagine it's the same in the states.

Anyway, I was just trying to help, sorry it backfired.

Jen

Stan,

I was reading all of this, and frankly your W is still having an affair. It is an EA right now, but it is an affair. It is time to consider plan B, or to call the cops, and finally to put this A in to the light of day. She was lying to you, she is lying to you, and she will continue to lie to you until there are some consequences.

She does NOT see the error of her ways and she clearly does not worry much about you. Hence exposure and plan B should be forthcoming. Let me readdress something you said. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> know the rule of thumb for BH is not to put down the OM. However, sometimes the OM is such a lowlife that one has difficulty keeping the trap shut.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is NOT a rule of thumb. And it may NOT be an LB even if she gets mad. What it does and did show, is that she values him highly and what she did with him. You are misreading this. You assume it is because she is ashamed and thus defends him. I don't think that is the case. Look at what you wrote below.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think my wife does not want to admit her judgment was poor.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BUZZZZZZ, wrong answer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She now claims her self-esteem is finally where it should be and admitting that the OM is a piece of crap will hurt her ego. BTW, I believe her self-esteem is high because I did not leave her and the OM still calls. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bingo!!! She gets what she had, she got her fun, she still has OM on a string, and self-esteem has little to do with it. It is just plain selfishness. That is what affairs are about, not self-esteem. It is about giving yourself permission to do something that you want to do for what ever reason you can come up with.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She loves the attention!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No problem with self-esteem or defending her poor choice is there? It is all about her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BTW, when the OM calls he says he is worried about my WW self-esteem. He claims to be in charge of keeping her self-esteem up.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh! PLeaseeeee! give me a break. You cannot possibly believe any of this self-esteem crap can you? And as for her, he is just providing the excuse to do what she wants to do. She is convinced you will not leave, she is convinced she has lost nothing, and she is buying you off with good sex. You can get good sex on many street corners, but you cannot get love and you are not getting love from this woman.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I bought a book about self-esteem where it clearly indicates that no one can give another person self-esteem. That is something one earns by being a person of integrity and by positively impacting the life of others. The ultimate good self-esteem is when the exterior reflects truly the inner self.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am glad you are learning this, but you are missing the boat if you think she is doing this to let her "exterior reflect truely the inner self". If you do buy it you should strongly consider leaving. Her inner self is NOT looking very good.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Obviously having and affair and cheating cannot enhance the self-esteem, but she simply cannot see my point and has not touched the book (Called Self-Esteem for Idiots).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course, she cannot. That is because this is NOT about HER self-esteem. You have bought that hook line and sinker. She is having a good time, and she is enjoying the attention of both men, and she is NOT paying a darned thing for it. You are going to give her whatever she wants as you have already. Time for a change of tactic here. Plan B and exposure. It is time to pay the piper for her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I had cheated on my wife and she wanted to say nasty things about the OW it would not bother me at all. The last thing I would do would be to defend the OW in front of her. I would even add words of insult to the OW in front of the wife to gain brownie points.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hello, you would then be interested in saving the marriage believing that your defending of OW would hurt your W and possible make her leave. Right?? Well....think about this a moment. She is not worried about hurting you and she feels you won't leave or do anything else. Have you contacted OM's W? you should. Have you told your children? you should.

Stanley, it is time to fight for you marriage, and that means playing to win. You have done plan A or at least part of it. You have not done the exposure part. It is time to move into plan B, she is still having an EA and she is still in contact. This is NOT withdrawal and you are NOT in recovery.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why are WW so sensitive about negative remarks about the OM?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because your W is still having an affair, and she is defending him because she wants to continue the affair, that is why? Time to wake up Stanley, time to do the rest of the plans on this site.

Please think about this and think about it carefully. She will threaten you, she will be angry, but disclosure needs to start now. And so does your planning for plan B.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ September 13, 2004, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

JL, et al:

Thanks once again.

Big argument with the wife this AM. She claims she is very afraid the OM is going to do something nasty such as notifying our children of the infidelity. My W claims she has been taking the calls of the OM to see if she can dump him slowly rather than a quick a harsh goodbye. BTW, two days after D-day she gave him quick and harsh goodbye and I actually listened to the OM pleading with her on a voice mail message . However, the OM is still lurking!

Wife claims she is not having any emotional involvement when OM calls and that she is worried about his reactions. She claims she kept me in the dark to avoid the fighting we had this weekend. Of course if she had been truthful there would be no fighting.

She is SCARED TO DEATH about me calling the OM. Nothing in this world scares her more than that. She says I would be descending to a low level and that she will take care of the problem. The OM is separated.

She finally called the phone Co. and now we have a new number. I told her this should have been done from day one!

I am not sure about telling the children------- this will destroy them! Wife said she would rather die than having to face our children as an unfaithful wife.

Wife denies very vehemently that there is a reconciliation between her and the OM. She is very forceful about this and tells me folks in the MB forum don’t know her.

I think I am going to tap my phone line again despite the fact that we have a new number. If W wants to continue to talk with OM she will eventually give him the new number thinking I will feel secure.

Stanley,

Oh I'll bet she is going to take care of it herself. What she has not noticed that she has NOT taken care of it herself, and they are still in contact. So perhaps you should talk to OM, and even his supervisors at his home force and tell them you are about to file stalker charges or get a RO against one of their finest.

I would definitely tap the phone, because you may need the evidence or be aware so that you can gather it. As for her not wanting the children told, perhaps she should have thought of that BEFORE she became an adulteress.

She is right we don't know HER, but as you can easily see her behavior does NOT differ from others around here, and it is pretty obvious that we do know what to expect from her. She is trying to bargin to stay in contact and I think that barginning should be terminated right now.

Call OM, and advise him of continuing actions or better yet spend a few hundred bucks and get a lawyer to give you some advice about how to handle this including what to do if he does contact your children. I'm thinking stalker charges just might end his employment as a cop. He will understand what you are talking about.

Next, explain to your W what you have done and why. It is her mess and you are sorting it out. Sher really only has a few options and only one of them is viable, work on the marriage. NOTICE I did not say stay in the marriage, but work on it.

She has been coasting as you well know. She has been playing both ends agains the middle, and she has NOT stopped lying for one moment. No reason to trust her now. She should have thought about the kids much earlier than this, but perhaps you can end this and protect them from this knowledge with the advice of a good lawyer. Perhaps the lawyer can contact the cop on your behave. That just might put him on notice that this is about to become really expensive for him with respect to his job, and his marriage as I am sure custody will not be granted or even visitation for a stalker.

Time to step up Stanley and I think a trip to the lawyer's office would be the best money you spent.

Think about it.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Stop arguing with your W. You know she is lying, so don't accept anything she says as truth and ignore it. You know she is in contact to address this via the lawyer and contacting the OM either via the lawyer or yourself. You know she has not faced what she has done, so don't deal with her on that level. It is time you backed off, and did what you need to do. You cannot argue her back into this marriage.

I like the idea of having a lawyer talk to the OM. In fact, the OM IMed one of my daughters recently.

During the affair my WW had the OM email my daughter when she was writing a paper in criminal justice. Because the OM is a cop my wife asked him to give her some information. It would be very easy for the OM to talk to my daughter. We just changed the phone number this AM and my wife is worried that the OM may IM her and ask for the new number. Then again this may all be BS if my W and the OM are an item again. If that is the case the OM already has the new number!

My wife vehemently denies that there is any romance or anything remotely like that between her and the OM. She remains very indignant because I am so skeptical of her words. I made it very clear that if she re-starts the affair I WILL DIVORCE HER. This is not an empty threat------ I WILL DO IT. She claims that there was no romantic talk over the phone and that she took the calls because the OM is a clingy WACO. This is significant as she had never utter a disrespectful word about the OM.

This is very hard on me!----------------- I think my W maybe truthful, but I don’t trust her at all. I will tap the phone and pray I don’t find anything . If I find evidence she lied again I will have no choice but to end the marriage and destroy the lives of my kids. It will also be hard on me since I am very much in love with her (or perhaps is the sperm competition- I am not sure). In any event I think my love will turn into indifference if I discover she has started with the OM. Many here say that she already has started the affair, but W denies it BIG TIME. She claims there is no way she will ever hook up with OM again.

BTW, my children worship their mom! They have no idea she could be like this. The children see us as the most perfect couple in the world.

During the arguments my W will often imply that I have a very low image of her and will say that I think she is a whore, a nobody, and a low-life. She will then say she could never be like me----MR. PERFECT. She even said that I still resent her for the affair and that I keep saying “How could you do this to me!!!”. In the latter words she implies that I think I am a big shot and she a peasant. I come from a white collar background where everybody is educated and she came from a blue collar family where adultery was common. She admitted she always saw herself as less than me in the marriage. When she met the OM she saw a guy like herself with similar background and childhood problems.