Stanley,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">During the arguments my W will often imply that I have a very low image of her and will say that I think she is a whore, a nobody, and a low-life. She will then say she could never be like me----MR. PERFECT. She even said that I still resent her for the affair and that I keep saying “How could you do this to me!!!”. In the latter words she implies that I think I am a big shot and she a peasant. I come from a white collar background where everybody is educated and she came from a blue collar family where adultery was common. She admitted she always saw herself as less than me in the marriage. When she met the OM she saw a guy like herself with similar background and childhood problems. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then look her in the eyes and simply say: "Has it ever occured to you that I held you in high esteem, that I loved you deeply, and that what you have done has hurt me to my very core? Has it occured to you that I can be and am hurt by you? Has it occured to you that I depended on you, relied on you, trusted you? Has it occured to you that I had you on a pedestal because I thought you were so special? That is why I asked 'How could you do this to me?' Because I thought you were so special, so above everyone else. I thought of you just like our children did.

If it has not, it is time for you to consider this."

Then leave her alone. It is time to stop arguing with her. It is time for you to see a lawyer about this because this man has alot of information about you and your family that your W gave them, and he is a cop with resources that most don't have. See the lawyer to protect yourself, your children and yes even your W.

I suspect the truth will come out as this progresses.

God Bless,

JL

JL:

I have said those words to my wife many times. Just the other day she finally said--- "OK, maybe you always had me on a pedestal, but you took me for granted". However, when the affair started I was paying her a lot of attention despite a marriage of 28-29 years.

Wife had the affair because the opportunity was there and she was 48-49 and always wondered what it would be like to be with another man. We also had the typical problems with modern grown-up kids who don't seem as tough as our generation. The OM also provided the romantic enchantment one can only experience with a new person. She claims she thought she was in love, but now she feels she was simply trying to justify the sex. Retrospectively she can now say she did not feel love, however, there was plenty of lust. I guess it is hard to distinguish lust from love.

The OM is quoting old emails (to re-start the affair) where WW talks about love for the OM. In fact OM wants my wife to get a divorce! My wife said she is well aware of the stats regarding women who leave a marriage for the OM. My WW knows quite well the success rate is quite low. For that I give her credit! In any event she explained this to the OM, but he still calls. OM asked her is she loved him. Wife said nothing and replied she wanted to stay married. See how she avoided saying no and simply said I want to stay married. Wife claims she wants to avoid hurting the OM too deeply to avoid trouble.

I mentioned my wife the idea of the lawyer, but she wants to wait and see what develops now that we have changed the phone number. There is a chance the OM may never call again, but I plan to monitor the telephone for a long time. If OM asks my daughter for the number or if he calls the house after getting the number as a cop I will have no choice but to put in a RO.

Wife is very resistant to the idea of accepting that the affair was the worst awful mistake in the world. She claims it happens all the time and that she was weak and failed. However, she admits she learned something and always tells me that the sex was good. The sex topic is very important for her and when the OM's local OW called to see what was going on this topic was discussed. Apparently the local OW checked the OM's cell phone while he was taking a shower. The local OW saw my wife's name in the phone memory and decided to call to see what was going on. The local OW told my wife that the OM was lousy in bed and my wife proudly replied------- "Well with me he was great!". I guess she wanted to imply the local OW was frigid. I don't have to tell you that my wife is very sexual.

Stanley,
Why are you arguing about this with your WW? And yes, she is still a WW! Make no mistake about that. Weather or not you took her for granted for this year, last year or a thousand years is not the issue at this point. Resolving your marital difficulties and going forward is the point and that can’t happen until NO CONTACT is strictly observed.

Your WW is terrified that you will contact the OM? And why is that do you think? And in the past, she had the OM e-mail her through your DD? That’s nice isn’t it? And now she says that she stays in contact with the OM because she worries that he will expose her to her children as an adulteress?! That makes sense. And she claims he he’s blackmailing her yet?

Here’s the real deal. If she wanted him to stop and demanded that he do so, then you can be pretty sure that he probably would. And if he will not, and he is a cop, then go to his watch commander and file a complaint. Further go to your local DA and file a complaint. Have your lawyer with you so that all involved understand that you’re serious.

Exposure, exposure, exposure. It always boils down to that one simple act. People only get to do wrong things as long as we allow it. Your WW is needs to be exposed. She is the problem here, not the victim.

Sorry, but that’s how I see it.
Coach

I am Stanley's wife, and I just read all the statements made here against me!
Its amaziing that because all of you had these predictable things happened to you, you all assume everyone is the same! Well, let me tell all of you, that there are some instances that "some"people might be different,. I happened to be one of them.
Just because I had talked with the OM does not mean I am emotionally connected or having an affair again. I AM NOT!! I told my husband that if I were to come to the realization that I want the OM I will tell him. It is really sad and kind of simple all the "advice" you give him. He says he comes here for support, but that is not support. We were doing great, but since he into this forum, we have ugly fights almost every day. Can you all think for a second that you might be wrong?
I know that I did wrong, and maybe I should had tell him about the calls, but one thing I know for sure is, THAT THERE IS NOTHING GOING ON HERE!!!! I do feel that my life is at a very fragile state right now. I dont think I am hot stuff because I have two men that want to stay with me. I fear everyday about the breakup of my marriage, about the future of life and my children. I do not take my husband for granted, never did. Affairs happened every day, for a variety of reasons. I am not excusing myself for what I did. But it happened, and if we really want to work this out, we cannot be taking negative feedback from a bunch of "bitter" people.
"Just Learning" is a very cruel person, advising my husband such negative things! I think you should mind your own business! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Everybody is different, I know I am.!!! Wheter you all believe or not!! Thank YOU!
Jen, I am sorry for the remark I did about you. It was uncalled for!

JL, coach, Kiwij, et al:

My wife, AKA Myrta has joined the forum. I see this as a huge positive and I am quite happy.

Not long ago I had emailed my W some of the responses I received from forum members and I gave her a lot of forum literature including Plan A and the policy of NO CONTACT. I also sent her all the info about Radical Honesty and many other things. However, it seems I was the one doing all the work to rebuild the marriage and she showed little interest. I know she read the information because she was able to recall the data with ease during our conversations.

From her point of view she had done enough---------- she had broken up with the OM and wanted to stay married. She said she loved me and that whatever love she professed for the OM during the affair was probably false love.

In any event this is how the OM got back into the picture:

In the aftermath of D-day my wife DUMPED the OM forcefully. I know this because W allowed me to hear voicemails where the OM pleaded and begged to continue the affair. I also had the opportunity to read many emails written by the OM after D-day. There is no question in my mind my W had dumped the OM. She also changed her cell phone number and I know for a fact it has not been used to talk to the OM.

However, about six weeks later my wife told me she really wanted to talk to the OM. At this time I had no knowledge of the NO CONTACT POLICY or what WITHDRAWAL was all about. In any event I told her to go ahead and call the OM if that made her feel better. Believe it or not I thought that she would become disappointed if she made contact with the OM again. My W claims that the conversation was dry and that she did not have worsening of her withdrawal. She claims she was curious to see how he was doing. Wife was concerned because perhaps the OM had gotten ill and that is why he was not trying to communicate. However, deep inside we all know she simply wanted to hear from him whether she had intentions or not to re-start the affair.

In any event after this initial contact the OM started to call the house every once in a while. My wife told me of the 1st call he made and then said there were no more after I kept asking her. I then stumbled into MBs and saw the NO CONTACT policy. I forwarded this to my wife and once again reinforced the concept that she was supposed to avoid contact with the OM at all cost. However, as we all know the OM was calling the house every once in a while to plead his case. My wife claims that she did not disclosed this info to avoid a big blowout because we were getting along just fine. However, I felt something was not right and eventually got to the truth out of her.

Yes------ the OM was calling every couple of weeks, but she also received a phone call from the OM’s OW while he was married (OM was still seeing her). In any event we now have a new phone number and we are hoping there will be no further contact.

BTW, several weeks ago the OM traveled to my city and asked to see my wife in person. My W claims she drove by where OM was staying because she was fearful he would do something crazy such as ringing our doorbell. My W swears she stayed inside her car and she spoke with OM who was standing in the curb. She swore on a stack of bibles they didn’t even shake hands. Once again she states there was no worsening of withdrawal.

<small>[ September 14, 2004, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Myrta

Don’t worry I'm not going to attack you.
Yes sure we get emotional here, because many of us identify with what Stanley posts because its what we are going through right now as well.

No we don’t have all the answers, however we have thousands upon thousands of people who have been through everything you can imagine as far as adultery is concerned...and from both sides, and both sexes.

Myrta you made a statement about many here could be wrong.......sure we could but if so why is Stanley hurting..we did not do that. Why has the hurting not been reduced, why does it fester and sicken your relationship?

Myrta, Stanley was NOT doing great...I'm not saying that, Stanley says that over & over again!!!!
Did you think he was doing great because you were not arguing & not talking about your affair?
That it would all just ’go away’ if you didn’t talk about and resolve it?
He didn't come to vent & seek advice here because he was doing great, neither did I..its because we are, well almost desperate... can't you see how that is??
We came here like Stanley because everything else we can think of has failed & we want to stay married like Stanley wants to stay married to you, but so much of that is also up to you.

Myrta, it doesn't matter why you are in contact with the OM, don’t you see that it simply hurts Stanley right to the core of his whole being? If my ww had stayed in contact I would have probably left, at least until I knew she was no longer in contact.
What is so hard about NOT contacting the OM ever again Myrta? I'm not asking you to tell anyone here but to really think about that simple question and tell Stanley in a day or two. Isn’t your h worth the effort?
Stanley will have lots of questions that will be painful for you both to answer, but he needs those answers to recover, its that simple. He will tell you what he wants to knoe, please listen to those requests.

I don’t doubt in anyway that you are hurting, your H is hurting , he feels betrayed, his faith shattered and his trust destroyed. I feel the same too so I can understand a part of what Stanley is going through.
Myrta if I simply replaced your name with my wife’s on your post the response is so similar. Her common response to me was ’ why cant you just get over it, affairs happen every day!’ well I almost did get over it by leaving. I came within a day or two of just walking out.
Luckily for both of us she finally agreed to marriage counselling by a Phd qualified cousellor who is also a psychiatrist. We are only just working through all these issues Stanley has tried to discuss with you....…are we out of the woods...…no way…we might fail, she or I may say too bad so sad I’m outa here. But we are trying and it helps so much to have a good MC who wants to save our M too.

Myrta, it doesn’t matter what anyone here says or advises or discusses with Stanley, in the end only YOU & HE will decide where your M will go, down the tubes or on to a new relationship together.
Please seriously consider a good MC Myrta, I know it will be hard, I have had to face my own failings in this process too, & I have as many as my wife, but it works if you are determined to work on it.

Myrta, we know you are human, and being a human being you make mistakes and bad decisions just like we all do. We understand you fear the consequences of these bad choices, but did you ever think that Stanley does to? No matter what you do here, Stanley & you are going to hurt, but if it can save your M at least there is a one positive thing . There are a lot of challenges ahead for you & Stanley, from the mental images he has of you and the OM to rebuilding the trust.
It may take years that’s a simple fact.

One of the nicest things many of us here would like to see is to one day read a post from both of you saying you are happy, in love, never better & life together is wonderful…well we would like that for ourselves too of course. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I hope you really work on this Myrta for your own sake & Stanleys. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Myrta,

I am glad you are here. It is always much better to talk to both parties. I thought I would comment on some of the things you have said and see if I might cause you to change your perspective on a few things.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am Stanley's wife, and I just read all the statements made here against me!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, let's understand one another here. Neither I nor are any of the posters here are against you. It is your actions that we are against. Your behavior is very very normal (sadly) for someone who has had an affair. Your words are almost text book.

Myrta, the purpose of this site is to rebuild marriages and that cannot happen as long as there is an affair and/or the affairee's are in contact with one another. It just does NOT WORK.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Its amaziing that because all of you had these predictable things happened to you, you all assume everyone is the same! Well, let me tell all of you, that there are some instances that "some"people might be different,. I happened to be one of them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, I give, in what way was YOUR AFFAIR different? Not you, we all acknowledge that people are different but their behavior in an affair is amazingly constant, and as near as I can tell your's is no different.

So please explain why your affair was different?

You lied to Stanley, you continue to lie to Stanley (yes we know so it won't hurt him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ). You broke your marriage vows. The sex was good. The excitement was high. You felt entitled to do this. You didn't think Stanley loved you. You are reluctant to break contact. Your excuse of worrying about him telling the kids, does not fly because when you first did break contact he did NOT contact you. YOU contacted him. Very normal for someone in withdrawal.

What else Myrta? What made what you did and how you acted unique? You see I don't think the affair defines you. It may consume you, but is not you. Here is where you are missing something. I will agree you are a unique person. What you did was NOT unique. What you are doing is NOT unique.

If you read here for awhile and read the posts of those betrayed and the betrayers, it will amaze you. But what you will learn that often times people who have affairs are NOT bad people, but the affair behavior is remarkably similar.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just because I had talked with the OM does not mean I am emotionally connected or having an affair again. I AM NOT!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And Stanley can believe that because????

You see the problem? It is simply that you have lied so much about your affair, and your feelings about OM, that there is no way to trust any contact with him. You cannot be "friends" with someone you have been having sex with behind your H's back. You cannot have contact because if you do, the affair is very likely to reignite (it is recognized at this site that the affair has deep emotional hooks for the wayward Spouse, WS). Your H knows it.

Finally, you cannot have contact because it hurts your husband. It destroys what little confidence he has in you and in himself. It is like an acid eating at your marriage. You stepped into this mess, it is time you decided to step out of it.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I told my husband that if I were to come to the realization that I want the OM I will tell him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh! that is nice of you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> So for the rest of his life he has to live in fear that you will wake up some morning and say "Stanley, I've decided I want OM and I am going to him."

Don't you have a clue what marriage is?? It is a vow to your spouse that such a conversation will NEVER HAPPPEN. You have left the door open for it to happen and your continued contact reinforces that you have the door open and are looking through the door. You have another man in your life. One you have told you loved and one you have enjoyed having sex with.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It is really sad and kind of simple all the "advice" you give him. He says he comes here for support, but that is not support. We were doing great, but since he into this forum, we have ugly fights almost every day.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"We were doing great." By whose standards? Obviously not Stanley's because he came here looking for support and HELP. He was not and is NOT going great. You have caused a lot of damage and you were and still are lying to him. He came for advice Myrta, not support. There is a big difference and you need to acknowledge that the reason he is here is your actions.

As for the fights, I have posted to him and I will post to you the same thing. STOP FIGHTING and start really talking and listening to one another. You must realize that very little you say can be believed because you yourself have not done what you said you would do...remove OM from your life, your families life, and your H's life.

Please BOTH of you go read the sections here on Love Busters and stop doing them. Oh! by the way an LB is NOT doing something correct although the other spouse doesn't want you too. That is a subject for the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA. You can read that here as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Can you all think for a second that you might be wrong?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wrong about what? That you continue to lie to your husband? That you don't see the damage you have done? That it is still all about you? That your statements don't hang together(a sign of what is termed the "fog" around here)? That your behavior is pretty normal for someone in an affair, or coming out of an affair?

Please explain. I would like to hear your side of this.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that I did wrong, and maybe I should had tell him about the calls, but one thing I know for sure is, THAT THERE IS NOTHING GOING ON HERE!!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, how would your H know that? Because you said so? You have said alot to him in the last months, and most of it was not true. Actions are required to substantiate words. If there is NOTHING GOING ON HERE, then there is no need for contact. Make your actions match your words, and your H will have a lot easier time starting to rebuild his trust in you.

I am going to say something here with the assumption that you are really a good person and won't take advantage of it. Your husband WANTS to trust you, he NEEDS to trust you, because it is the only way to LOVE someone fully and receive LOVE fully. I am sure you can swindle him because all betrayed spouses, BS's, are pretty gullible as they should be. If he felt otherwise he would be gone.

Myrta, the ball is in your court. You have the power to turn this around and rebuild a better marriage than you ever had. From what Stanley has said he is willing, but he cannot do it looking over his shoulder to see if OM is lurking or to see if you have decided that you really need another man. It is your call on this one.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do feel that my life is at a very fragile state right now. I dont think I am hot stuff because I have two men that want to stay with me. I fear everyday about the breakup of my marriage, about the future of life and my children. I do not take my husband for granted, never did.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sure you fear losing what you have. But that fear did NOT stop you from doing what you wanted did it? That is the problem that Stanley has. What has changed in your thinking now, that would indicate to him that you are in this marriage in a more substantial way than you were before?

You did take your H for granted because you assumed you could have it all. OM on the side, and your H and you assumed (correctly for now) that your H would not leave you. That is taking him for granted at the most elemental way.

You do admit you enjoyed the sex. You do admit that you enjoyed the attention, the thrill. You do admit that you lied to your H to get it, and you did put your family at risk. You also must admit that you did NOT think about your children very much or you would NOT have done this. It was primarily about you. That is very normal. The problem is that your behavior so far has been primarily about YOU as well. This is part of withdrawal and it will end IF you cease contact with OM. That is also your call. You can continue, but it will have consequences.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Affairs happened every day, for a variety of reasons. I am not excusing myself for what I did. But it happened, and if we really want to work this out, we cannot be taking negative feedback from a bunch of "bitter" people.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh! it is not negative Myrta, it is just NOT what YOU want to hear. My goal and that of others, I suspect, is to break up the contact between you and OM and if it takes going to a lawyer and contact with your OM by your H or the lawyer, that should happen. Your OM is a serial cheater, he is a cop. You, yourself, have said you fear him and what he might do. So do you think kissing his A$$ is "positive" behavior? I don't. I think it is negative for several reasons and here they are:

1. It hurts your H, and thus the chances for your marriage to survive.

2. It does NOT solve the problem because it keeps OM in your life and under his control. Control he will use if he senses you will do what he says in order for certaing things not to happen.

3. At best you are lying to OM,but really you are lying to OM AND YOUR H. Lying kills marriages.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Just Learning" is a very cruel person, advising my husband such negative things! I think you should mind your own business! Everybody is different, I know I am.!!! Wheter you all believe or not!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe you are different Myrta, but your behavior is sadly very mundane and middle of the road with respect to affairs. Your justification that "affairs happen everyday" misses the point that everyday people and marriages and families are severely hurt by affairs. You have been married 30 years and your behavior is threatening not only your marriage, but your children's belief in you, your belief in yourself, and most of all your very integrity. You have not figured out yet, but the advice we and specifically I am giving your Husband is to save your marriage, and actually will benefit YOU the most. You have the most to lose right now and you are closer to losing it than you think.

You are only one phone call or email by OM away from your children KNOWING what you have done. You are only a few more phone calls or emails away from your H finally giving up on you. You have damaged a deep trust your H had in you. You have changed his image of you. You have caused him to fear his marriage to you.

These can be repaired and rebuilt, but only after YOU really realize what you have done and have fully assessed the damage. Then you can address it. Your H will need to help. He cannot stand on the sidelines and just watch. You are missing something very important if you think your H wants to deal with OM. He does NOT. But, your H is willing to fight for this marriage and if it takes getting a lawyer and directly dealing with OM, he should and will, and he will be supported here in fighting for your marriage.

You need to stop and think very deeply as to why you don't want your H to contact OM, and then you need to tell him the truth. I am betting your H doesn't know all there is to know, but OM does know and you fear OM telling. If that is correct YOU tell your H now, and begin the healing. No matter how much it hurts your H, it is better than him finding out from OM. HONESTY, RADICAL HONESTY is what will save your marriage Myrta.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank YOU!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your welcome Myrta, and THANK YOU for coming here and starting this dialogue. I hope it continues. From what your H has said you are a special woman and clearly he wants you in his life forever. It is time you two became a team again, but the ball is in your court at this point.


I look forward to hearing from you.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ September 14, 2004, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

Aussie2 and JL:

Thanks for writing to my W--------- I appreciate the support. I just talked to wife who just left the house to pick up my youngest daughter from school (12 years old, my oldest is 29). As you know W is a homemaker and she runs everything in the household including the money, purchasing, hiring contractors, ect, ect. I simply work for her and the children-------- an old fashion concept.

In any event my wife says she became very depressed after reading the posts and is not sure if she will post again.

Just now I have learned something new about my W and perhaps this explains her behavior (which at times is puzzling). Perhaps this is why she refuses any negative remark about the OM. After all anything that is negative about the OM reflects on her.

As I said in a prior post------- for many years W and I had used this lovemaking fantasy where she is some sort of sex addict who copulates with many men all day long. Several weeks after the D-day in a macabre way we both incorporated her affair sexual activity into the old fantasy. In a strange way this allowed me to somehow deal with the common post affair symptom of having to replay the movies of the W in bed with the OM and imagining how she did it, ect. All betrayed men in the forum know that these movies are VERY PAINFUL and unfortunately there are daily triggers that bring them back countless of times. I certainly still struggle with the movies, but it seems I have accepted this a little better than most men. I suspect that trying to pretend the affair was a fantasy has helped me in some mysterious way.

I also suspect that bringing the affair into the fantasy has allowed my wife to feel better about herself and she has somehow avoided the pain of having to face some issues that are extremely painful for both of us. I have noted that sometimes I try to initiate a serious talk about something that bothers me and she will suddenly turn the discussion towards the world of fantasy. I have to conclude that it has helped both of us to deal with many painful issues.

I recall there was a former WW in the forum that was in full recovery and happily married to the BH. Her BH had forgiven her and was a very happy man with no more painful movies or regrets. However, the former WW claimed that every once in a while she had to look at herself in the mirror and that she hated herself for what she had done. One wonders if my W is trying to avoid that pain. I certainly would rather see her in a happy mood rather than with a deep depression. I tell my W regularly I have forgiven her and that I will not leave her unless she is unfaithful again. I think that is pretty fair proposition. I don’t understand why she thinks I will do otherwise. If she wants to stay married I don’t understand why she lied to me about the OM calling the house and showing up for a face-to-face meeting. I am sure she felt I would have called the OM and that is something she wants to avoid.

My W has discussed many things she did during the affair, but I can always come up with more questions on a daily basis. As time goes by she would rather not talk about the affair at all. I certainly try to avoid talking about it, but now the A has become a thing of prominence once again because I discovered she was talking to the OM.

I will talk to my W later today when I come home from work. I hope she changes her mind and comes back to the forum. I was very happy to see her post when I got to work this AM.

You are right about two things she has feared from day one:

1. Disclosure to the children
2. Me talking to the OM

You imply that there are other more ominous details about the affair that I don’t know about. I don’t know what could be more ominous than having to drive by the hotel where they copulated on a regular basis. This hotel is within walking distance of my home---- you want to talk about a trigger? I will have to see this hotel for years to come. There may be other details that are very painful for her to admit. I suspect there is a whole lot more and that maybe this is the tip of the iceberg. However, I don’t think there is anything else she could say that will make me change my mind about staying married to her, I have made the decision----------- I want to be with her and I will only leave if she betrays me again. There is the chnce that she will give me more details many years from now if we get out of this hole (I feell we will).

On many issues my wife has been very helpful and has played a big role in my recovery. I have become hypersexual and I know this is not an easy thing to deal with. I have also become needy and want her to touch me all nigh long while we sleep. I remember the 1st nights after the D-day and how I had this inexplicable need to pass my hand around her entire body. This sensation would overcome me at any time and sometimes I would find myself massaging her body at 3:00 AM for no apparent reason. I still get a kick out of massaging her back.

<small>[ September 14, 2004, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Stanley,

I also hope she comes back. Here is a thought for you to consider. If your W finally opened up admitted all she has done (assuming there is more), faced that what she did was very very painful to her, to you, to your family, THEN you can help her. You can stand by her side because you know where she is.

The goal of all of this is to get the WS to see what they have done, come to understand why they did it, and decide that they want to be married. It is also to get the BS to see what they have done, come to understand why the WS did it, and decide they want to be married. THEN, you two become a team and work together. At that point the discussion about the A and anything else becomes a "learning" experience not a blame affixing or blame sharing session. It becomes you two on the same side wanting the marriage to be better than ever and sifting through the A and the thoughts that surrounded it to learn how to avoid certain things and improve others.

Stanley, if Myrta can come to see this as an exercise in LEARNING rather than blame affixing, then recovery is assured. She will need your support to do this, but you seem willing to provide this. Certainly the people here will help her and talk with her, and yes encourage her and you.

Right now she sees everything as an attack, because her defenses are up. She will see my response to her as an attack when in fact it is not. I simply want her to see things and face things, so that she and you can stand together and make the marriage something you both enjoy. It is NOT about affixing blame.

We know, you know, she knows, everyone knows the affair was wrong, so that is not the point. The point is she needs to face it and be willing to deal with it. Then, she will better understand what has been said to her and what she needs to do. One of those things is to learn to trust you.

Odd isn't it but her trust of you will be a key thing to develop.

Must go, but I hope she does come back. We will talk with her, debate with her, but I hope she knows we are also rooting for her and you to make your marriage a success.

God Bless,

JL

JL:

I see your point.

My wife and I have discussed different ways of looking at the affair. I have concluded that it is more painful for both of us when we see everything from a righteous puritanical viewpoint. Within this context the betrayal is extremely painful as well as the idea of accepting all the sexual activity and romance that she shared with the OM. However, a more liberal and permissive point of view seems to minimize the infidelity as something that happens all the time and is no big deal. Clearly my wife has favored this approach as it eases the pain for her. Obviously it has also eased my pain and we have a standing joke among us. Whenever, I get too sentimental my wife will remind me that I am becoming too puritanical in my thought process. The thing is--------- it does not matter how liberal I am or was. The initial pain following D-day was the worst experience of my life

In any event, I don’t want my wife to be the poster child for “mia culpa”. If she becomes depressed and highly remorseful I will also become depressed. I guess I simply want a more middle of the road approach rather than completely sweeping everything under the rug. I don’t want her to feel sorry for herself or to constantly tell me how sorry she is. I simply want her to assimilate the magnitude of what she did and the potential catastrophic consequences. I suspect my W has a good understanding of this, but it is painful for her to talk about it. As you can see, she can clam up and not talk. Something we often see in many WWs. I hope she comes back to the forum.

The other thing I want is NO CONTACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She knows this very well and hence that is why I was so upset.

I also want to trust her very badly. In fact my trust in her was coming back. I just don’t understand why she kept all this from me? The 1st thing that came to me mind when I confronted her was “Old habits are hard to break!”

Some follow-up:

Two days ago had the big argument with my W when I finally blew up regarding the contact with the OM. The trigger was when many in the forum plainly said she was still having the affair. I became overwhelmed with doubt and rage. To make matters worse a couple of nights before I had asked my wife many times if she had slept with OM when he flew into town unexpectedly.

My W was very upset at the fact that I thought she could sleep with the OM again. She was very offended by my mistrust. When I blew up two days later and told her I would gladly leave so she could have the OM she became even more enraged. She assured me over and over again that will not happen.

I am trying to figure why she is so enraged whenever I bring this subject up. I have explained to her that I do not trust her, but she feels my mistrust is illogical because she intends to stay away from the OM. She further states she kept the OM phone calls and single meeting a secret to avoid a big fight. I also think she wanted to avoid a confrontation between the OM and me. However, I still think she wanted to have some sort of contact with the OM even if she had convinced herself she was not going back to him.

I asked W why she is so worried about me talking to the OM and she assured me there is no new info the OM could give me. She claims it would be a low for me if I had to resort to that. However, I also suspect she wants to protect the OM from what I may say. I certainly have a few things that will hurt the core of the OM.

I also think my W wants to avoid more controversy because this sort of thing makes her feel bad about herself. Last night she said her self-esteem was not high anymore and that she was becoming depressed.

I explained to wife that everything I do is designed to save our marriage. But somehow she thinks this is a vendetta. I tell her that if I did not love her I would not try to keep the OM away. If I did not love her I would be separated from her. She does not buy the latter. She feels I stay with her because of convenience and that I am too lazy to go thru a divorce and to find a new mate.

So there you have it!

I hope W comes back to the forum.

<small>[ September 15, 2004, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:

I am trying to figure why she is so enraged whenever I bring this subject up.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I beleive your answer lies in the comment below.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also think my W wants to avoid more controversy because this sort of thing makes her feel bad about herself. Last night she said her self-esteem was not high anymore and that she was becoming depressed.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is very hard for any person to acknowledge that they did something terribly wrong and be reminded of it.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I explained to wife that everything I do is designed to save our marriage. But somehow she thinks this is a vendetta. I tell her that if I did not love her I would not try to keep the OM away. If I did not love her I would be separated from her. She does not buy the latter. She feels I stay with her because of convenience and that I am too lazy to go thru a divorce and to find a new mate.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is not uncommon so soon after D-day. Many WS see the BS attempts to save the marriage as a sign of fear of losing them rather than as a sign of love for them. This is especially true if the WS, prior to the affair, had been neglected and emotionally starved for many years by the BS. What can you do? Consider conveying to her, in a loving way, that you love her with all your heart and that her happiness is very important to you BUT she is NOT your prisoner and that she has the free will to chose to either stay or go. If the WS finally realizes that the BS is not afraid to lose him/her then the WS MAY see that the BS truely does love him/her.

In the meantime stop love busting her with your angry outbursts because in the long run they do more harm than good.

Coffee Man:

Lack of trust makes one do crazy things. I say this to my W all the time and she seems to forget. She was outraged at my suggestion that perhaps she slept with the OM and that she wanted to re-start the affair. She was acting like someone who has never cheated before. I explained to her that I reacted that way because she had lied again. She then said she wanted to avoid more trouble and that she hates to be put down. So in a sense these were major LBs (assuming that she is truthful).

Up to this point we were doing fine with no fights and getting along in a very romantic way. I certainly set the clock back in that department, but I managed to make love to her last night at 1:30 AM. Not sure how I got there, but she was somewhat receptive and allowed the event to reach its logic conclusion. I have asked W for lunch today since I have a slow day at work.

She certainly likes the no fights approach as well as the lets not bring painful issues to our conversation. It is painful for her to tell me about her affair because she feels I will put her down. I certainly try not to, because I need the information to fully heal myself.

Stanley
I do hope Myrta does come back to help herself & you.

I do understand your suspicions and pain when you say you want to talk to OM and your w is almost desperate for you not to. What else are you to think but that she has hidden something very important from you?

I don’t know if I have the experience to advise you on that one mate, I know I'd contact OM & speak to him but anything he told me I'd accept with a big dose of doubt because it seems he would love to break up your M. However, if he alleges something like some sort of PA when they last saw each other, which you obviously fear as you said, well yes that is a BIG problem by itself, but then at least you can investigate it & know what you are facing with your wife and the M. You have already said well if she has you still want to work on the M.

It might change the way you go about that but I do see from your posts you still would want to save your M if possible, But you cant do it alone.
What her rage is about when you want to discuss this issue seems to be a very big defensive effort… a big STAY AWAY from that or ELSE! That of course sets your radar off like crazy

I think there is immense fear in your w right now Stanley that you will walk away. NOT perhaps for what she has told you but perhaps for what she has not told you. Just a feeling I could be so wrong.

I think it’s a very hard fear to relieve her of as YOU cannot give any such undertaking of forgiving all because you don’t know what that is. Catch 22 almost. I mean you can try like I did but I found it soon unravelled. The doubts just eat away at you. Turns to frustration & anger and you know the rest.
This comes down to her trust in you , I know I’m going through the same thing. JL told me this probably seems to me as if she - my w- is getting away scot free with her A and is waiting to see if she can trust ‘me‘…..yeah I do find that sucks & do get indignant, but , the but you see, I would like to save my M so as P*SSED as I sometimes feel about it I accept it’s a part of the whole process… well I try to anyway.

Stanley I think the bottom line for you is much like so many other BS here, until you have found out everything you feel you need to know, and do not feel that anything is being withheld from you, then you cannot get on with recovery with your W.
Of course what you find out can affect what you want to do.

That simple, that hard.

I do understand your suspicions and pain when you say you want to talk to OM and your w is almost desperate for you not to. What else are you to think but that she has hidden something very important from you?

To be honest I am not sure what else I could find. Obviously they copulated quite a bit. What else can he add? My W said there was no oral sex and that it was the missionary position 95% of the time with a couple of times the reverse. I guess I would be hurt if there was some of the above, but at this point I am becoming numb to the sex part. I do know my wife generally had little time to spare with the OM and if I know her well she probably reached orgasm VERY FAST. My wife is very orgasmic and at times can be as fast or faster than a male. In fact the OM was always suggesting new positions and oral, but my wife refused (so she said). He even wanted her to read a book about positions. He was also concerned with fact that my wife would do it and then leave the bed right away. Obviously they were not together long enough to have sex at a slow pace with different positions, ect. Maybe my wife lied about this, but I tend to believe her. What else could the OM say? That they did it more times than I know? I don’t think it matters.

I don’t know if I have the experience to advise you on that one mate, I know I'd contact OM & speak to him but anything he told me I'd accept with a big dose of doubt because it seems he would love to break up your M.

I neglected to say that I intercepted an email OM sent to my wife under an assumed identity where he regretted there was no romance when they met. This was quite rewarding--- snooping sometimes pays.


What her rage is about when you want to discuss this issue seems to be a very big defensive effort… a big STAY AWAY from that or ELSE! That of course sets your radar off like crazy
I think there is immense fear in your w right now Stanley that you will walk away. NOT perhaps for what she has told you but perhaps for what she has not told you. Just a feeling I could be so wrong.
From my experience she seems to deny things very forcefully when she has done nothing wrong. When she is lying she seems to take a different approach. After all this time I am finally learning to see when she is lying. OTOH, if I lied to my wife she would know instantly by just looking at me. If I ever slept with another woman she would know the minute I walked into the house. It seems that some of us don’t know how to cheat.

JL told me this probably seems to me as if she - my w- is getting away scot free with her A and is waiting to see if she can trust ‘me‘…..yeah I do find that sucks & do get indignant, but , the but you see, I would like to save my M so as P*SSED as I sometimes feel about it I accept it’s a part of the whole process… well I try to anyway.


Yep—she did the OM and now I want to desperately stay married to her. Hmm----- she lost nothing!

Stanley I think the bottom line for you is much like so many other BS here, until you have found out everything you feel you need to know, and do not feel that anything is being withheld from you, then you cannot get on with recovery with your W.
Of course what you find out can affect what you want to do.


Sometimes I pump her for info and I get nothing, then on some days she will spontaneously give me all kinds of anecdotes. For example the other day she told me that one day the OM wanted to go and see a movie rather than to have sex in the hotel room. OM went into the theater by himself and my wife came in later. Wife did not want to be seen walking around with OM in the theater complex. For some reason my W had a hard time telling me this anecdote whereas she had little trouble telling me how they copulated. I don’t get it. BTW, the OM was becoming frustrated by having a secret relationship and he desperately wanted to do normal things rather than to have sex in a dark room and then fly back home to write emails.

<small>[ September 15, 2004, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Hi Stanley,

I see things are still a little problematic.

From where I sit, reading your story, it seems that you need to get off the merry go round, and put together a plan for recovery. You have a lot of the elements of it, but I believe they need a framework, and a step by step deployment if you want to succeed.

Questions
I think continueing to ask her questions over and over is hurting your recovery. I know that you wonder if the complete truth has come out, but you still need to go foreword. I suggest you do as some posters have done. Make a list of your questions, take a week or two if you need it, and make a long list. Give her the list before you talk, let her prepare to answer. Promise no LB's. Then meet one eveing, or weekend and go over the questions. Have her answer them all, then quit asking things. I believe this will require some commitment from her to work, see below.
If she doesn't understand your need to know, perhaps this will help.
Josephs Letter - why he needed to know more about A
Josephs letter


No Contact
You need NC for this to work. If she continues to contact him, she is saying "my friendship with him, is more important than your feelings."

Taken another way, she is saying that her friendship with him is more important that her marriage to you. You feel that, you understand it. She does not seem to at this point. If she wants it to work, she is going to have to do NC on faith right now, until she can see the positive results in your relationship.

Demands/Anger
You can't demand anything. She is free to do what she wants, but so are you. You can ask for things that will help with recovery, but you can't demand them. She can help with recovery or not, but you can't force her.

You can leave, if she doesn't protect you emotionally, she can if you do not protect her. I believe a much better way would be to discuss what each of you need to make this work, and see if you can find some middle ground.

I suspect if you ask her what she needs for this to work, she will talk about care, and protection. She needs to feel loved,cared for, and protected, and she doesn't when you get angry. You need to believe she can be trusted, you need to know you come first, and you don't know that.

I read her comment where she says that nothing is going on. I think she missed JL's point on that part. Your feelings will never heal while there is continued contact. It will be impossible for you to have the necessarry feeligns of love and care, and protection for her while she continues to communicate with him. Her actions scream HE'S STILL MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN YOU ARE. If not, then why doesn't she show your feelings are important by doing no contact?

I don't think she understands this yet, but you can ask for a year of NC to make it work, and let her see the results. If she has a hard time with NC, then perhaps it will begin to dawn on her that there ARE still ties in her heart to OM, and until she breaks them, she won't be able to see what needs to be done in the marriage to make it work.

Four rules
Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery

You need to be working on the four rules. Dr Harley knows what he is talking about, and I can tell you from personal experiance that if you follow the 4 rules, things will improve drastically over time.

It is not enough to WANT things to work. When a marriage has been damaged as much as yours has, it needs much repair to function properly.

I would ask you W to ponder this:
It was following her feelings that resulted in things being as they are now. I would ask her to follow a program for recovery that doesn't feel really good to her right now, but that an expert in the field of marrital recovery (Dr Harley)says is the best thing he has seen in all his years of counseling. I would hope she would try this for a year, I believe the result will be far better than she thinks is possible.

Stanley,
Live the 4 rules. Make them part of your marriage. Since you can't control what she does, do what YOU need to do. Do YOUR part. She can come, or she can stay away, but you do what you can do. I second what JL said - if contact continues, the A contiunes. If there is no change, you also have choices. We know that anger doesn't work, it will just drive her further away. Your choice is to stay, and work on it, or leave.

I suggest you have a talk that begins with: "How can we make this work, what do you need for it to work for you, this is what I need for me."

See if you can come together in recovery, not in arguements.

Protection

Lastly, you need to protect your W. You SHOULD NOT be coming here talking about your sex life now that you are in recovery. She has feelings, and if you can't protect them (as she should yours) then there will be no recovery. It has to come from both of you. I think if you ask her about this she will understand and agree - it's a basic concept that few of us (men) seem to understand before coming here and reading Dr Harleys basic concepts. I encourage you to read them again, and become familier with them, they should guide the way you interact with her.

God be with you.

SS

<small>[ September 15, 2004, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Well, well, I must admit reading the posts of Just Learning and Coach 3530, put me in a really bad and depressed mood. I told my husband that I would not never write here again. But here i am!
Despite the statements by all of you here, my husband was doing well. I came to that conclusion, because I compare him to how he was when all this came out, he was really depressed then, losing weight, he looked like a zombie. NOW, he is not like that. He is able to smile, to laugh, to eat, to look at me,etc,etc. I think he came here, because he had contradictory feelings about the A and how he felt. He compares himself to other people here, and he is doing wayyyyyyy better, but maybe he thinks that he should not feel so great, and hence, he comes and complains and makes himself look like some kind of victim. If I am mistaken, then he has no integrity, because what he reflects to me is not what is inside of his head!!! He made me believe that he was doing really well, that he had forgiving me, and he encouraged me to talk about the A while we were making love. He said that helped him!! He gets angry and nasty with me when he wants to have sex and I refuse him. He thinks that I have to be this wild cat in bed at all times!!! And I am not !!! I needd to breath once in a while.
Still Learning and Coach 3530--I think your advice to my husband to expose me to the world is a terrible one!!! I would not be the only one expose here, HE is too. The embarrassment is not only for me, but for HIM as well, and also for our children. That does not solve anything here!!! Exposure will only bring more bad consecuences to the fixing of this marriage. Unless what he wants is pity from his children to him and hatred for me!
I never said my affair was different, all affairs have the same ingredients, I know that!!! I said I was different in the way things are developing and will develop. JUSTbecause I had contact with the OM does not mean, I will start or reignite the A again. I know, everybody thinks that I am lying but I am not! The statement that I put that I will tell my husband if I change my mind, came from my husband's mouth, not mine. It will not be fair for anyone here, that I am testing them to see who gets the price!!!! I already made my decision, I want to stay married, I am not blind or in any kind of fog here, I know whats good for me. I know what will work, and if I were stupid enough to go with theh OM, I know it will dissolve very rapidly. Because what I have with my husband is too strong and too long. The baggage of feelingss that I will bring with the OM will be too much to let us be happy.
Despite what I did, I know I had been a perfect wife for my husband. and he knows it. And thats why he wants to stay married with me. I had always been 100% behind him in everything!!! He had no complaints about me.
Affairs happened ,because of different reasons, I, myself, had a variety of them that pushed me into it. My childhood, my age, problems with our kids, indifference from my husband, self esteem, etc,etc.. I am not excusing or making myself look like a victim, but A just dont happened because people want to have some fun and want to harm their spouses. Affairs have been happening since the beginning of time, I am not the first or the last woman!!! If it was so simple, so black and white,so text book like, people will not be having them!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Still Seeking:

Thanks for your reply

I see things are still a little problematic.
From where I sit, reading your story, it seems that you need to get off the merry go round, and put together a plan for recovery.


I have given my wife a lot of info regarding the way to recovery. The problem is that I was more into this than her. My W feels that dumping the OM was all she needed to do. I am not sure she understands my need to be able to trust her again.


I think continuing to ask her questions over and over is hurting your recovery. I know that you wonder if the complete truth has come out, but you still need to go foreword. I suggest you do as some posters have done. Make a list of your questions, take a week or two if you need it, and make a long list. Give her the list before you talk, let her prepare to answer. Promise no LB's. Then meet one evening, or weekend and go over the questions.

Wife gave me many details about the affair. However, there have been many inconsistencies. Because of the inconsistencies I decided to take everything with a grain of salt. I don’t think she is ready to spill her guts because for some mysterious reason she thinks I want to leave her and I am simply collecting evidence. Of course that is the last thing I want to do.

Josephs letter

I hope my wife read Joseph’s letter!


You need NC for this to work. If she continues to contact him, she is saying, "my friendship with him, is more important than your feelings."
Taken another way, she is saying that her friendship with him is more important that her marriage to you.

As far as I am concerned this is the biggest PROBLEM I have!
Just last night my Wife said she could not understand why I exploded in rage one morning regarding the contact with OM. Wife said, “you have nothing to worry because I am not sleeping with the OM”.

I wish my wife could give me a signal or proof that she is not in touch with the OM. Right now I simply do not know. We just changed the phone number, but I am sure the OM can dig it up and continue to call the house. If my wife chooses to say nothing I am in the dark again. I cannot tap the phones anymore becasue my wife knows how to find and disable the gadget. There is nothing i can do about this one.



You can't demand anything. She is free to do what she wants, but so are you. You can ask for things that will help with recovery, but you can't demand them. She can help with recovery or not, but you can't force her.
You can leave, if she doesn't protect you emotionally, she can if you do not protect her. I believe a much better way would be to discuss what each of you need to make this work, and see if you can find some middle ground.

I have told her that she is free to do whatever she wants. ON D-day I even told her she could leave me for the OM if that is what she wanted. I know quite well I cannot force her to do anything. However, I think it is fair to ask for NC with OM. To me that is a huge factor for recovery even thou she thinks otherwise.

I read her comment where she says that nothing is going on. I think she missed JL's point on that part. Your feelings will never heal while there is continued contact. It will be impossible for you to have the necessary feelings of love and care, and protection for her while she continues to communicate with him. Her actions scream HE'S STILL MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN YOU ARE. If not, then why doesn't she show your feelings are important by doing no contact?

Great question! My wife said she feels the OM is a WACO who could harm to my family. Therefore that is why shee took the calls. Hmm------- I must say that is quite a turnaround for her. Up until this point she presented the OM as an oustanding man, husband, and father. I think the OM is a serial cheater, but that is another story. The issue is whether this WACO remark is a smoke screen. My wife says it is not!

Four rules


I have talked to her about radical honesty at nauseum.

Protection
Lastly, you need to protect your W.

I will never harm my wife and I have promised to give all my best to help her in anything she does even if that includes leaving me for the OM. I promised my wife I would never reveal her affair to my children and that I would make up some other excuse if we ever separate. To be honest, I don’t think we are going get a divorce. To be honest, I don’t think she will leave me for the OM.

My concern is that my wife thinks I am plotting to leave her. Of course, I want to do the opposite--- I want to stay with her. However, her erroneous perception is her reality.

She went as far as to say I wanted NC with OM so that when I divorce her she will not have the OM around for her. Maybe that is why she has kept contact with the OM. Maybe OM is insurance

Myrta -

Hi. Did anyone welcome you to marriagebuilders? I read the whole thread, but now I forgot if you got a proper welcome. I'm glad you are here.

There is lots of information on making your marriage better than before - for both of you. I hope you will read some of the stuff on the home page about restoring the marriage, and reconciliation.

You and your husband are both very hurt, and worried. According to your husband you are a wonderful wife and mother, and a good homemaker. No wonder he doesn't want to lose you.

I suggest dropping all of this right now, and taking a little break. You both need some time together enjoying life. The Harley's suggest 15 hours a week doing pleasant things together.

Your situation sounds very promising to me. Figure out how you can call a truce together, and get a little rest and relaxation.

BELIEVER, thank you for your welcome and your kind words! First person here that does not seem like a bitter person, out to lash at anyone!
You are right saying that we are both really hurt. It is really embarrasing and degrading that your husband looks at you with such distrust and hurt. I hope everything will continue to get better between us. I should say that he is more tender and attentive to me now, when he is not in one of his anger rages. I know there are going to be setbacks.
I think HIM and I dont want to lose what we have. It is too much to let GO.
He was my mentor, he was almost like a father figure to me, then he became my husband. Maybe I got blinded by what was going on around me with the problems of everyday life, and with self pity about past things, and I forgot or put aside what my husband and my family meant to me. MY FAMILY , is everything to me! They are the most IMPORTANT thing in my life. Without the whole nucleous I would be NOTHING!