BELIEVER, thank you for your welcome and your kind words! First person here that does not seem like a bitter person, out to lash at anyone!
You are right saying that we are both really hurt. It is really embarrasing and degrading that your husband looks at you with such distrust and hurt. I hope everything will continue to get better between us. I should say that he is more tender and attentive to me now, when he is not in one of his anger rages. I know there are going to be setbacks.
I think HIM and I dont want to lose what we have. It is too much to let GO.
He was my mentor, he was almost like a father figure to me, then he became my husband. Maybe I got blinded by what was going on around me with the problems of everyday life, and with self pity about past things, and I forgot or put aside what my husband and my family meant to me. MY FAMILY , is everything to me! They are the most IMPORTANT thing in my life. Without the whole nucleous I would be NOTHING!

Myrta -

Your husband will start changing. At first it will be hard for both of you. But you seem to both care about your family and each other. That is why I think the essential thing right now is to take time to start building new memories together.

The Harley's who are experts always suggest spending 15 hours a week doing fun things together. See if you can do that.

Recovery is very hard work, and I think you both need some respite right now. There is no hurry to do ANYTHING quickly. You both need some time to feel safe and happy again.

Later you can begin to sort all of this out, Like in every marriage, mistakes have been made on both sides. But I see a bright future for you.

Myrta,

I wish you would go back and read this thread carefully, especially the posts by your H. He is hurt, he was NOT doing well, and he needs several things from you: love, the truth, and no contact with the OM. If that happens he can proceed with healing from what has happened and clearly he wants to.

You say your A with OM will NEVER happen again. But, the problem is Myrta it did happen and here is the worst part. You describe yourself as the "perfect" W. I have no reason to doubt you. Yet, you did something you KNEW would hurt your H deeply and jeapordize your marriage and your family. It was not like you at all to do this, right? You have never in 30 years done something like this, but you did it. This man, the OM, obviously had something you wanted and you went for it. He has not changed and he is still in contact with you, HENCE your H's deep and very warrented concern about the Affair restarting.

Myrta, please understand virtually all counselors would counsel you to NEVER have contact with OM again, because the data is overwhelming that it leads to restarting the affair. I know you are very defensive and I know you HATE the idea of exposure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Myrta ALL WS's hate that, it is very very strong medicine, but if contact continues it is because you are choosing that over the health and happiness of your affair.

Now I also realize that at this time you really don't see the damage you have done. You felt your H was happy before he came here, but you were also lying to him at the time, and you were and are still in contact with OM, perhaps sporadically, but contact nonetheless.

I commend you for changing the phone numbers, but I would also like to encourage you to quit with the defending yourself. Your H needs to talk to you about what happened and why it happened. He needs to do this for several reasons.

1. He needs to know what he is forgiving.
For example; He needs to know if this is your first and only affair.

2. He needs to sort things out in his mind and YOU can help him talking with him not you two arguing.

3. He needs to know where he failed in the marriage and what he has to change to make this less likely to happen again. You are right this affair is very embarressing for him for a variety of reasons, one of which is he feels you made a fool of him. A second is that it seems he failed as an H.

4. He needs to be able to help you and ignoring it is NOT helping you or even himself.

5. He needs to learn how to be more open with you and you need to learn the same thing. I realize you are very leary right now, but so is he.

Myrta, you may not believe what I have said, but go back and reread this thread completely. Do it with an open mind as if it were your friend in this situation and listen to your H's voice as he tells you what he needs. He doesn't want to hold this over you, because he wants to love you. But he needs more than you are giving him right now.

He needs to by his side working on this, examining this to see what can be learned, not to afix blame. He needs his partner more than ever and he needs her to talk to him, to tell him what she was thinking, what he can do now. He needs his partner to more than reassure him with words but to show him HE not OM is first choice.

You see what you said about your marriage is a great thing and truely something to be proud of, but when you listed all you would lose if it ended, you make it seem it was for that and not your H that you came back. That he was second choice. Now I realize you may have already assured him that he is not, but contact with OM undermines that. Defensive behavior by not talking to him does not.

Finally, if he starts to get mad when you talk you need to back away until he cools down. You both need to respect one another and work together.

Please reread what was said and realize it was for your good and your H's good. I am not posting here to tell you or your H what you want to hear if it does NOT help rebuild your marriage. So please realize the purpose of this post and the other posts to you and your H is about rebuilding the marriage NOT punishing you. Neither I, nor anyone else including your H, should be in the business of punishing you. It is not a worthwhile goal. The problem will be that as time goes on, and you come to appreciate what you have done, that you will punish yourself too much with yoru guilt. That is a bad thing as well, because it hurts your marriage.

Myrta, talk with your H, work with your H, and be open with him. I think he will do his best to protect you.

God Bless,

JL

Myrta

You posted

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Despite the statements by all of you here, my husband was doing well. I came to that conclusion, because I compare him to how he was when all this came out, he was really depressed then, losing weight, he looked like a zombie. NOW, he is not like that. He is able to smile, to laugh, to eat, to look at me,etc,etc. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stanley was not doing well, he was coming out of depression. For some BS, men or women that may happen with the help of antidepressants or they may struggle through on their own. Stanley in this case was able to do this on his own…that is not ‘doing well’ that’s surviving. He’s done that very well.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think he came here, because he had contradictory feelings about the A and how he felt. He compares himself to other people here, and he is doing wayyyyyyy better, but maybe he thinks that he should not feel so great, and hence, he comes and complains and makes himself look like some kind of victim. If I am mistaken, then he has no integrity, because what he reflects to me is not what is inside of his head!!! He made me believe that he was doing really well, that he had forgiving me, ……. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes you are right, he does have contradictory feelings about the affair and about you. Stanley is doing well in comparison to some , worse than to others, that’s natural, we all react differently to circumstances.
I have no doubt he first told you he was coping ok and that he was forgiving you and could see it all working out.
Firstly many of us say that to our wives or husbands as the case may be, we fool ourselves and thus our spouses into thinking its all ok, then WHAM it all falls apart and we drop down into even deeper despair and depression. I know I did and I did not show it on the outside at all. If anything I presented a front of being happy and cheerful and full of confidence……… big front only. Inside I was a mess to be truthful, and I’m not really over all of that yet. That developed into deep distrust of my wife and some bloody big arguments over virtually nothing. We were headed for separation, I have no doubt of that.
And Myrta, he IS a victim.
A victim of your betrayal and cheating and lies. That’s what an affair is.
Now you need to know he is really working on forgiving you, do not doubt that at all, he is. HE IS COMMITTED you need to accept that while understanding he will have relapses of doubt and disgust at what you did to him, that too is natural and part of the healing process.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and he encouraged me to talk about the A while we were making love.
He said that helped him!! He gets angry and nasty with me when he wants to have sex and I refuse him. He thinks that I have to be this wild cat in bed at all times!!! And I am not !!! I needd to breath once in a while.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of the hardest things he is doing is trying to handle the visions of you and the OM having sex as ‘purely physical action’ , this helps him cope with the movies inside his head and allows him to treat the sexual acts with the OM as impersonal actions. He is doing the best he can on that score, praise him for that and support him for finding a way around what for most of us is almost insurmountable.
However, this needs to approached with some gentleness and understanding & clear agreement with each other. Of course there will be times when one or the other does not want SF right then, that’s pretty normal, talk to each other and acknowledge your different needs, you must of done this before over the years.
Hanging my head here Myrta, I did much the same with my wife after first learning of the A for about 1 ½ t 2months. I surmise what I was doing was trying to do was be the alpha male, mark my territory call it what you will. Yes like you she got bloody sick of the attention and we went from that to nothing, then revulsion in my case of any SF with her.
Our MC tells me it is not as unusual as many think, it’s a reaction to the movies and related concerns. Both of you need to be patient. Its not easy, I’m still trying to get this right.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Still Learning and Coach 3530--I think your advice to my husband to expose me to the world is a terrible one!!! I would not be the only one expose here, HE is too. The embarrassment is not only for me, but for HIM as well, and also for our children. That does not solve anything here!!! Exposure will only bring more bad consecuences to the fixing of this marriage. Unless what he wants is pity from his children to him and hatred for me! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exposure is used to unsettle an affair, create instability and hopefully cause it to end by both parties receiving pressure from family, friends, work etc , its not for revenge and embarrassment. When a BS exposes the affair the last thing he or she is concerned with is embarrassment, most say at least everyone will know I was faithful.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I never said my affair was different, all affairs have the same ingredients, I know that!!! I said I was different in the way things are developing and will develop. JUSTbecause I had contact with the OM does not mean, I will start or reignite the A again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, Stanley needs to believe you can be trusted, he needs to know he come first, before ANY other friendship or association or relationship.
As still seeking said in much the same way Stanley feelings will never heal while there is continued contact. It will be impossible for him to have the necessary feelings of forgiveness and love, care, and protection for you while you continues to communicate with the OM.
Please understand this, because it is SO important, your actions of retaining contact with the OM screams to Stanley THE OM'S STILL MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN YOU ARE.
Because if he’s not, then why don’t you demonstrate that you do place him before all others by doing no contact? If there is nothing going on then this request will be reasonable for you to agree to. If you have residual feelings for the OM then you may have a hard time with NC, however until you break them, you won't be able to see what needs to be done in the marriage to make it work.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I already made my decision, I want to stay married, ……………. Despite what I did, I know I had been a perfect wife for my husband. and he knows it. And thats why he wants to stay married with me. I had always been 100% behind him in everything!!! He had no complaints about me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well there is one thing you agree on, he wants to stay married to you if possible, you are obviously proud that you have stood with your H down the years and through a lot, so you should.
Yes you have made a terrible tragic mistake, you don’t know yet what it will cost you, I think you fear that quite naturally. So does Stanley and all of us who have suffered through adultery.
Don’t ignore the fear or it may inhibit the recovery of your M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Affairs happened ,because of different reasons, I, myself, had a variety of them that pushed me into it. My childhood, my age, problems with our kids, indifference from my husband, self esteem, etc,etc.. I am not excusing or making myself look like a victim, but A just dont happened because people want to have some fun and want to harm their spouses. Affairs have been happening since the beginning of time, I am not the first or the last woman!!! If it was so simple, so black and white,so text book like, people will not be having them! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes Myrta a lot of what you say is correct. Even the impression of such issues can lead a spouse astray, though the decision to actually have an affair is and was only YOURS. No one else.
Unfortunately some affairs do happen because a spouse wants some fun and has no intention of leaving their M, my wife’s for one though I had a hard time accepting it, and some people do want to hurt their spouses, using the affair as an exit from the M, but I don’t think that was you. I suspect you may still be asking yourself that why question too.

Maybe lots of mistakes on both sides happened, that’s your H and yours business, however please consider attending MC with Stanley if that what he wants. BUT get a good one who supports M reconciliation, some don’t for some reason.
I don’t understand your reluctance Myrta, my wife was exactly the same & I didn‘t understand that either, resisted strenuously, maybe she didn’t feel protected enough by me as I was too angry, but I’m trying too you know, I know I don’t have answers to everything that the A has created, I think that like you & Stanley, we are going to be stumbling around for a while until we start getting more things right than wrong.
I really hope you consider Stanley’s needs in working on recovery, even if to you it makes no sense. My wife did it for me in the end, and I do so appreciate that effort, I realise its very hard for her, perhaps it may be for you to.

I wish she would post here and perhaps talk to yourself & others, but I believe she did try early on and got her head bitten off so to speak. Now says no way.
In any event, its up to you and Stanley, so go do it ok? All the best

<small>[ September 16, 2004, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: aussie2 ]</small>

JL and Aussie:

Thank you for having a dialogue with my wife. I think she is defensive because of that self-preservation mode we all have. I also believe she wants to save face. Perhaps she thinks I now have a poor image of her and that it will never be the same. In fact that is what she told me when I decided to stay and not seek a divorce.

My wife was always an exceptional woman. She has provided everything any man could hope for and our children consider her the best mom in the world. She is also a very elegant woman with a demure personality. She can cast her eyes just like Lady Princess Diana used to. As marriages go ours was not bad at all-------- not perfect, but certainly not what anyone would consider a dysfunctional marriage. We rarely had fights and always did things together or with the family. Despite over 30 years of marriage we never stopped bedroom intimacy and I always loved her (never had any doubts).

The reasons for the affair are probably what she listed in her post. However, she also felt attracted to the OM who was a classmate thru middle and high school. Funny how she did not pay attention to the OM when they were classmates. After reading the story of Scotty from the UK whose wife ran away with a convict who was coming out of jail for manslaughter I have to conclude that affairs change the brain chemistry to such a degree that folks simply do not think. In defense of my wife I have to say that at times she had no clue at to what she was doing. When I confront some of the things she did I feel like I am dealing with a person I never knew before. I am more convinced than ever that affairs make perfectly normal people do stupid things. I think my Wife did her share, but I will not mention them here.

This afternoon my wife is visiting my oldest daughter who gave us a beautiful grand daughter 15 months ago. When she gets home she will read all these posts. I cannot predict what she will do.

As for my wife:

I don’t ask much: I want NO CONTACT WITH OM. The thing is that now I may never be able to be completely sure she is doing this. At least the day after D-day my wife dumped OM very forcefully and afterwards she let me hear the OM’s pleading remarks over voice mail as he tried to keep the relationship going. Now I will never have proof that she has initiated NO CONTACT. However, this may not be that important------- time will tell where we are going. However, I don’t want to spin my wheels anymore.

With regards to affair details. I think these will all come out eventually. However, I believe my wife does not want to hurt my feelings or perhaps she thinks I will change my mind and leave. As I said in another post I cannot think of anything that will make me change my mind other than re-igniting the affair. And as long as she is in contact with the OM the affair could start again. All it takes is a five-minute phone call to get things moving.

As for me being a mentor or father like figure. I am only three and a half years older than my wife. However, when we dated that age difference seemed like a lt.

<small>[ September 16, 2004, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

STILL LEARNING!!! I had read everything he wrote over and over again. I dont need to do it again. I know what he wrote, and I know how he sounds.
He was, we were, doing great, yes we were. But reading some of the replies here, especially some of yours , he had gotten worst. He tells me not to get heated or angry from what I read, but yet, he does that himself. Just because you write well, and give all this advice, does not make you an expert in this matter. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT!!!!
I might be defensive , yes, but you would be too, if you were being attacked and questioned all the time. It gets really overwhelming to the mind and the soul .
There is nothing,nothing I can do to make my husband believe me right now, time will have to pass and he will have to see on his own, that there had been no CONTACT>>> I do understand that now, for us to be completely into each other, no third party should be involved. He will have to take my word on it, because there is nothing else I can do.. I already changed both my cell and home numbers. I dont have any plans on contacting any more.
Yes, there was something that attracted me to the other man, but, no , he is not the same in my eyes anymore, so, the attraction is not there . He has changed BIG TIME in my eyes, because of things I've learned about him, and because of some of his actions. I do not need that in my life at all. Unless I want some self punishment here.
You are very much mistaken saying that I value the family life and what I have more than my husband, because that is not the case. My husband has always being number one in my priorities. Just when I err, did I placed him in second place. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I have always thank my lucky stars to have such a good, and perfect husband. A husband that will never have an affair, because he is above that. Maybe that is what attracted me to him, that he was so much righteous than me. But he has always known this. He always knew that he was above me, not only in education, but in everything else!!!
Keep on advising him to expose him, and that really will mend and fix our problem. NOT!!!! ONLY people that like pity from others will expose a spouse's affair. Why should the whole world be aware of our personal problems???? Who is anyone to judge the actions of others??? There is only one person that can do that and that is GOD!!! NO one else here has the right to give such advice to some one.
Like I said, my husband will have to take my word that I will not have any further contact with the OM, There is nothing else I can do. Nothing else!!!
I refused to pay for the rest of my life for a mistake I did. I had never had any other affair, this was my first and my last!!! There is too much effort and energy and sleepless nights to repeat this.
I should also add that "to err is human" and thats what I am, a human being ,capable of making mistakes and learning from them.
Thank you very much for all your "nice" input! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Myrta,

Will you please calm down. No one is attacking you and no one is counseling your H to disclose the affair if indeed contact is over and the affair is over. Please do some reading here and read about plan A, it will explain where several of us are coming from.

You don't seem to grasp that your H came here and posted his feelings of hurt and uncertainty about what was going on. We did NOT drag him here. Further, you seem to feel that he was "just fine" about everything as if coming here was the cause of his pain. Coming here was NOT the cause of his pain and you know it. You know the cause of his pain, and you don't want to face it.

But, we want you to face it, because in the long run it will be best for you, your H, and your marriage. "Radical Honesty" is a very basic concept at this site.

Further, you seem to fear we are "judging" you, or should I say your "fear" I am judging you. I am not. I have no ax to grind one way or another. I would like to see the following things happen in your marriage.

1. The affair to be over. (You say it is, right now your H is uncertain, but he hopes you are right).

2. You to face this so that the guilt does NOT eat you up.

3. You two to open up and talk with one another, and begin to make what was a good to very good marriage a GREAT marriage.

4. For the two of you to be happily married for another 50 years.

I don't want to see you punished, or anyone else in your family hurt. I don't want Stanley to keep throwing this stuff in your face, and I don't want him to stuff his feelings so that resentment builds and he does something dumb. The best way to do this is for you two to talk, learn, and work together.

You said a few things I thought I would comment on. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I might be defensive , yes, but you would be too, if you were being attacked and questioned all the time. It gets really overwhelming to the mind and the soul .</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you completely. Or as I tell my W, "yes dear" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Myrta, please understand you are not under attack from me or others here. We may speak plainly, we may offer some strong advice, but the only thing anyone here will attack is the affair, NOT YOU. Does this makes sense? YOU ARE NOT YOUR AFFAIR and we know it. So rest at ease here would you please.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is nothing,nothing I can do to make my husband believe me right now, time will have to pass and he will have to see on his own, that there had been no CONTACT>>> I do understand that now, for us to be completely into each other, no third party should be involved.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am so glad to hear you say that, and I am sure your H is as well. But, you are wrong about one thing, there are some things that will help him come to trust you and believe you again. Be "radically honest" with him. Love him like you say you do and don't defend. This will all pass and hopefully what will be left will be two people that understand each other much better and love one another deeper. Take some time to understand your H a bit, listen to him carefully. Not from a position of defense but as his equal, you are you know? He needs you very much, and he needs your strength. You have it in you that is clear.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He will have to take my word on it, because there is nothing else I can do.. I already changed both my cell and home numbers. I dont have any plans on contacting any more.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excellent, and as time goes on and you two talk and discuss your word will come to mean a lot to him. Make plans to NEVER contact OM again, that would be good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, there was something that attracted me to the other man, but, no , he is not the same in my eyes anymore, so, the attraction is not there . He has changed BIG TIME in my eyes, because of things I've learned about him, and because of some of his actions. I do not need that in my life at all. Unless I want some self punishment here.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am glad you are seeing this, but what you need to also see is that your marriage and your vows should protect your H from finding any man attractive enough to betray him. That is something that needs consideration and discussion between you two. AND it probably means your H has some work to do in this marriage. Let him do it, and help him do it. OK?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are very much mistaken saying that I value the family life and what I have more than my husband, because that is not the case.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I won't debate symantics (sp) with you, but I said that is how he very likely feels. I was not claiming I could read your mind. If you thought that I apologize it was not my intent. But, you must admit that your actions in the recent past do bring into question this statement.

However, I do believe you mean it now and that is good. Just remember Myrta he cannot read your mind either and you cannot read his. Talk with him, listen to him and you two will do just fine.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My husband has always being number one in my priorities. Just when I err, did I placed him in second place. I have always thank my lucky stars to have such a good, and perfect husband.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, Myrta while I am sure your H is better than I by a long shot, I do have doubts about his perfection. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You need to understand he is a human, he can be hurt, he can be mislead, he can make mistakes. here is the clincher in this regard, he needs to know when he makes the mistakes. He needs you feed back and help at those times.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A husband that will never have an affair, because he is above that. Maybe that is what attracted me to him, that he was so much righteous than me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, you need to talk to your H about this, and I am not putting him down. He could have an affair. He could fail. He has not yet, and I hope he does not, but affairs have to do with situations, circumstances, and vulnerability. He is subject to these things. He needs you to protect him, and apparently you have done a good job of it for many years.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But he has always known this. He always knew that he was above me, not only in education, but in everything else!!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I recall correctly he does not feel this way at all. You two need to talk. He is not above you, and this affair does not "elevate" his standing with respect to you. Please do some reading here, really you need to see your relationship in a different light. You need to see how much he needs you and has had YOU on the pedestal. He has, has said so here. You two are partners and what hurts one hurts the other. He depends on you it is very clear from his posts. Please talk to him about this, it is important.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Keep on advising him to expose him, and that really will mend and fix our problem. NOT!!!! ONLY people that like pity from others will expose a spouse's affair. Why should the whole world be aware of our personal problems???? Who is anyone to judge the actions of others??? There is only one person that can do that and that is GOD!!! NO one else here has the right to give such advice to some one.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, to start with the advice to expose was in light of your continued contact with OM. It is part of the plans on this site and it has been found to be helpful in ending A's. If your's has ended as you said, then there is no need for exposure. Exposure is NOT about judgement, it is about ending the affair. I beleive Aussie explained it very well.

But, Myrta, if things are how you say, then there is no need to expose this affair, because now there is no affair. That is very good. You have done well, and it is recognized by me and everyone else on this board that it is hard to do.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like I said, my husband will have to take my word that I will not have any further contact with the OM, There is nothing else I can do. Nothing else!!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, as I said before there is something you can do. You can be honest with your H from now on. You can try and see where he is coming from in all of this and appreciate that while you don't feel his pain, he has been and still is in pain. But, having no contact is a good thing and I am glad you have decided to do that.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I refused to pay for the rest of my life for a mistake I did. I had never had any other affair, this was my first and my last!!! There is too much effort and energy and sleepless nights to repeat this.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen to that Myrta. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It is a very hard thing to go through from both sides of it. Myrta, what I want you to try and understand is that the goal her is get your marriage to a stage where you DON'T pay for this for the rest of your life.

Now you may think that "paying" will be your H throwing this in your face. He needs to talk about things now, so that he can get things straight in his head and then put it away. This takes months, in some cases up to a year or two. But the worst is usually over in 6 months or so.

But the real thing that will need to happen is that he heals and he helps you to overcome your guilt. You see unless you have no conscience, you will feel guilt and that will NOT be a good thing. Oh! you should feel some, but you should NOT "pay" for the rest of your life from your guilt either.
It hurts you, your H, your family.

So part of what people here strive to do, is get you to face things now, which is painful, get you to accept and see your spouse with a new perspective, and then help your spouse help you. If you continue to post here and so does your spouse, you will see the emphasis change in your discussions. If you read here, and there are plenty of wayward spouses, WS, here, you will see everyone trying to help them as well. EVeryone will do their best to help your H and you. This is a process and it has stages and as I said if you are interested you can read about it here or in the books. The time table varies from couple to couple but it is sort of like grieving death there are stages and most everyone moves through them some faster than others.

My point is stay around here and everyone here will do their best to offer advice that will help you. You are just entering into the recovery stage and it will have ups and downs, but as time goes on there will be more ups than downs and that trend will continue, if you two communicate, open up to one another, and help each other.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I should also add that "to err is human" and thats what I am, a human being ,capable of making mistakes and learning from them.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We know Myrta. We know you are and so is your H. It is why this site exists. We all are human beings and err in one way or another.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ September 16, 2004, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

JUST LEARNING.... I know the extent of the hurt I caused my husband. I 've known that from day one. He was really hurt, I could see it/ . My guilt will not eat me up, because I already dealt with that in the first weeks after the discovery. I talked to my husband a lot in those days, I asked for his forgiveness over and over again. He slowly started to get better and things improved between us. I know that his hurt is still there, but is not as obvious or as palpable as before. He has come to accept what I did (I thought), but then he came to this site, and all the "advice" here refresh his pain, and sometimes it looks like he just discovered all over again! I Know this is going to be very ardous work from both of us. I do want US to work out, and put all this behind, like a bad dream or nightmare.
Why do you think I was vulnerable, what situation and what cirmcunstances I had that enticed me to the affair? Since you seem to have all the answers, humor me and tell me. Do you think that because I had one affair, that would put my husband vulnerable or in a situation to have one too.??? An eye for an eye? Hmm
About the exposure of an Affair, I still think is a very bad idea. Even if the Affair is going on, is a terrible idea. I bet the incidence of divorce or dissolution of the marriage increasess when that happens. Why harm so many people? It should be kept between the people involved. maybe tell the other spouse if the OM-OW is married, but nobody else should know! My personal, humble opinion here.
Just Learning,know I am being Just Curious.... why are you here? Hold Old are you? How long you have been "advising" people here??? Have you kept track how many people you have helped and how many you have not?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Myrta -

Glad you are still here!

I do have to defend JL. He has helped many, many people recover their marriages. And he is very good at it. Right now you don't know him, (or any of us) very well. But you will get to know everyone. I hope you stick around.

This board is rather hard on FWW's for some reason. I am still emailing with one who left this board. Imagine this - she was accused of having an "inappropriate" relationship with one of the posters that was trying to help her. She is now back happily in her marriage.

You sound like you have a lot of spunk, so I hope you will keep posting and reading.

I just got to my workplace and saw that my wife has already posted. I am very thankful since we are not going to MC. I also want to thank those who have posted to Myrta, particularly JL and Aussie.

Yesterday I came home from work full of questions. My wife immediately noticed my body language and thought I was looking to fight with her again. I told her it was one of those situations when one is driving around and questions come to mind. I explained to her I WILL NOT FIGHT AGAIN and managed not to bother her with my questions until after dinner. I also told her that there was no information she could give me that would make me leave and that I would always be around to protect her. I have said this at nauseum-- I WILLNEVER CAUSE HER ANY HARM and will do whatever is in my power to help and support her position.

In any event-------- after dinner she somehow became receptive to a conversation, but was still edgy. She said: “What do you want to know? How many times we did it?” I told her I simply wanted her to talk to me about the calls the OM placed to the house after D-day. She freely talked about the content, which according to her was some sort of plea from the OM to go on with their romance. She claims she maintained a dry non-emotional tone in her voice and generally encouraged the OM to end the conversation. However, she admitted she liked hearing about how the OM was coping. The OM asked her repeatedly if my wife loved him. My wife said she didn’t say yes or no because she does not want to inflict more pain on the OM who seem to be very distressed. I wish she had simply said “NO”. But, I guess she either does not want to hurt the OM or perhaps she really doesn’t know herself (withdrawal).

Then Myrta said something that struck me: When the OM flew into town unexpectedly to see her she was scare to death of driving to the street corner where he was waiting in the sidewalk. Myrta was very nervous and kept looking around thinking that anyone could see her with the OM. She said this was quite a contrast during the affair when she would pick him at the airport, drive him to the hotel, and go to lunch or the movies. Myrta said that back them she was fearless. She was wondering if this is part of the foggy thinking during the affair.

In any event, Myrta talked, but suddenly stop and said no more. It was like seeing a psychiatrist with a stopwatch. She simply said-- that is enough for today!

What I am trying to say is that Myrta still has her guard up, but things are improving and I expect we will talk some more at the appropriate time.

As for me being righteous and not inclined to have affairs:

To be honest I am too lazy to have an affair. The latter requires too much energy and cunning and I simply cannot dedicate myself to that. I don’t have affairs because of righteousness, religion, or morality. I simply never had an affair because I don’t have the make up to do all that is necessary to keep something under wraps. In addition my wife knows me so well. She would know about it the minute I walk into the house. I don’t proclaim for a second to be more moral or righteous than my wife----- I am different--- that is all.

As to why my wife sees me as the righteous one:

That probably goes back to when we 1st dated. She was a little wild young Lolita type and I used to give her advice. However, that was way back. Now we are adults!

Stanley -

Sounds like things are getting better. When your wife gets used to everyone here, I think it will help.

Have you been able to spend some quality time together this week? While talking about the whys of the affair are important, so is making fun time for each other.

Myrta -

Since JL doesn't seem to be around yet, I will let you know some of the reasons people have affairs.

MarriageBuilders (the Harleys) say that usually the WS is not getting some important needs met by their spouse. Then somehow the other person starts meeting those needs, and the affair is on.

In the book "Torn Asunder", Calder talks about the "message of the affair". He is of the opinion that there can be many reasons for an affair. It can start after the WS experiences some kind of loss. It can be from boredom, a way of dealing with stress, or from depression.

It can also just happen from circumstances, where neither person expected an affair, but just got emotionally entangled. Also there is the "exit affair", where on person has already decided to end the marriage.

You might check out that book, it is very interesting.

Believer:

Thank you for being so kind to Myrta. As you well know she does not like to be contradicted. After 31 years of marriage I know this quite well. That is why she runs the household!

In any event I think we spent some quality time every evening. Most of the time she will ask me to massage her scalp and play with her hair for a good 30 minutes and then she will demand a back rub in the couch and afterwards falls asleep in my arms. I even skip my work-out in the gym to be with her.

On the weekends I like to go out with her, but quite often our grown kids want to tag along. I also had a nice lunch date with her this week when I had a slow day at work.

BTW, I used to play with her hair and massage her back while she was having the affair, but it was sporadic and the intimate connection when I did it seemed to be much less intense.

BTW, I am pretty sure that you are her favorite poster. However she needs to battle with JL.

<small>[ September 17, 2004, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Stanley -

Myrta seems like she can hold her own, and JL certainly can, so let's not worry about it.

The 15 hours a week is supposed to be time ALONE, doing things that you both enjoy. It helps to set aside time for "date nights".

Also, I forget, have you done the emotional needs questionnaire with Myrta?

BEliever, I do appreciate your encouraging words to me. My husband and I do spend a lot of time together, since the discovery. He pays much more attention to me now, before, he was more interested in doing things on his own, like playing golf, recording music,etc. His priorities have changed!
Although I can see the reasons why a person had an affair, I still want Just Learning to be the one to tell me MY REASONS!!!
I do have some spunk and I am ready for whatever he wants to throw my way.
Is very sad about that other woman, being so attacked here, that discouraged her from posting any more. Even if a person does not feel defensive in this situation, harsh, unkind words, will make one that way! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Myrta -

Yes, it was very sad when she left, but she is doing well now. And JL was the one that helped her the most. It was other people who drove her off.

I just mentioned this so you will be prepared. But I think you will do just fine here.

By the way, have you done the emotional needs questionnaire? It really helps you identify and meet each other's top needs.

Glad that your husband has changed his priorities. I am extremely hopeful for you two. Usually it is only one spouse posting here, and so there is only one side of the story being told.

Hopefully JL will pop in here again, although he usually does not post on the weekends.

Myrta,

Well let's see, where to start. I guess I will simply take what you said and address it as best I can. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JUST LEARNING.... I know the extent of the hurt I caused my husband. I 've known that from day one. He was really hurt, I could see it/ .</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is really ashame that you drove KiwiJ off. She could offer you some insight as to these remarks. When she first came to this site her attitude was pretty defensive as your's is now. I told her that her A had costs that she had not yet seen (it was over when she came her) and as "breakthroughs" came she would understand. I think she could list a few for you.

But I will say if you presume to know the depth of your H's hurt, you presume wrong. There are subtle things that I am sure are/were in your marriage that are lost or damaged. The little things that don't seem so important now but will in the years to come. Those you will notice and so will your H. Those are loses that will bother you. You have just ended contact so I know you are in withdrawal and the symptoms are very evident based on your defensiveness.

But, trust me Myrta, you will see more inside your H than you realize IF you ever quit trying to control and spin this to protect yourself. By the way, most do eventually realize that control and spin don't work as well as being open and loving.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My guilt will not eat me up, because I already dealt with that in the first weeks after the discovery. I talked to my husband a lot in those days, I asked for his forgiveness over and over again.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good, I am glad that you have your guilt under control. However, you over estimate how much your talking to your H in the early days helped, given that you were lying to him and still in contact with OM. One thing I think he got out of it, but you need to check with him, is that the marriage could be saved and he wanted that badly. I am sure he was relieved to know you wanted the marriage as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He slowly started to get better and things improved between us. I know that his hurt is still there, but is not as obvious or as palpable as before. He has come to accept what I did (I thought), but then he came to this site, and all the "advice" here refresh his pain, and sometimes it looks like he just discovered all over again!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah! Myrta you misunderstand some very important steps. When a BS first finds out about a spouses affair, their biggest fear is that the marriage is over. So they fight like crazy to control themselves and deal with the A. This stage is normally when Plan A is used.

However, then one of two things usually happens. The A ends and the spouse does want to remain married. At which point the BS offers up a huge sigh of relieve. Or the affair continues and one needs to go to plan B, usually after disclosure to the OP's spouse if they have one, and to friends and such. Disclosure is a method RECOMMENDED by Harley and others to shine light on the A and often bring it to an end. It works. I will address this later in the post.

My point is that once the A is over and WS has declared that they want the marriage, there is relief, and then there are huge DOUBTs on the part of the BS. Because they got what the wanted, but they are not sure what they wanted is what they got. They wanted the person they "thought" they were married to, but what they got is a person they don't know very well at all. This person is fully capable of dumping them, hurting them, lying to them, often have said some pretty awful things to them. Then a new stage begins and this stage is filled with doubt, self-doubt, fear, pain, anger, and deep sorrow for the BS. The WS actually goes through many of the same things, but not for the same reason.

When your H came here he was coming out of the euphoria of you deciding to stay with him and telling him you had ended the affair. So he was entering the doubting stage. This was further exacerbated by the fact that he found out you were still contacting the OM and had seen him physically.

It was NOT this site Myrta, it was the normal evolution of his emotions as he was put through this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I Know this is going to be very ardous work from both of us. I do want US to work out, and put all this behind, like a bad dream or nightmare.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I truely hope you do this with one caveat. I hope you and Stanley learn alot from this and use it to make your marriage even deeper than it was before the Affair. Hence the discussions we are having. That is why I am hammering on your defenses. They need to come down so that he can see you, learn with you, and seek your help as you seek his.

Myrta, you don't need to prove a thing to me, it is your H that you need to see in a new light. It is you that you need to see in a new light. You are right it does take work,but really it does not have to be that painful, and it won't be if you will lower your defenses to your H.

You and I could argue for a long time, and I am game if you feel you need to, but really Myrta I am not your problem and I don't really matter. It is your H and your family that matter.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you think I was vulnerable, what situation and what cirmcunstances I had that enticed me to the affair? Since you seem to have all the answers, humor me and tell me. Do you think that because I had one affair, that would put my husband vulnerable or in a situation to have one too.??? An eye for an eye? Hmm</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why you had the affair? I would guess you had some need that was not being met by your H. However, if for example you had grown up in a family with abuse, it might have to do with that.

However, I don't need to guess. The important thing is that YOU know why you did it, and that YOUR H know why you did it. Then it is important that you two develop a plan to address the issues and protect one another.

As for your H being vulnerable to one, yes he is more than ever, but most BS's don't have affairs at least not the ones that post here. However, you asked about vulnerabilities. If he felt you did not love him, if you had not ended the A, if you continued to LB him and defend your actions, if someone sympathetic to him came along and listened to him, validated his feelings, understood where he was coming from, THEN he would be very vulnerable to an affair.

Interestingly, many BS's report here that they think at one time or another of having a revenge affair to have as much "fun" as their spouse, but most don't do it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">About the exposure of an Affair, I still think is a very bad idea. Even if the Affair is going on, is a terrible idea. I bet the incidence of divorce or dissolution of the marriage increasess when that happens. Why harm so many people?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First Myrta, I did not dream up exposure as a method to end the affair. Dr. Harley as well as others are big proponents of it. Let me do my best to explain the logic as I understand it. The most deadly thing to a marriage is an Affair. It is important to end the affair if the marriage is to be saved. IT is important to the spouses involved as well as any children from the marriage. Not to mention extended family.

Harley has found from his 30-40 years of experience once family memebers, fellow workers, church members are made aware of the A, it often leads to the ending of the affair, because these people cease to support the person having one and they often will talk with the person and try to persuade them to stop the A. He goes so far as to say (I think a bit tongue in cheek, "take out a newspaper ad.").

A marriage cannot be rebuilt or saved if the affair is going on. That is the basic primis here. The data on this site and from Harley's practice says it works more often that it does not. Note your strong reaction to the idea of exposure. You HATE the idea. That is the point.

Now, let's consider this differently. If you had a friend that you listened to and respected, and you were still in an A, then your H would be advised to tell this friend and hope that perhaps this friend could convince you that this is bad. He would very likely try and protect your children as well. However, he also knows that if the marriage ended, the children would be deeply hurt and would want and need to know why, thus disclosure might well occur if the A did NOT end. So why not use it to try and save the marriage?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It should be kept between the people involved. maybe tell the other spouse if the OM-OW is married, but nobody else should know! My personal, humble opinion here.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand what you are saying. I hope you understand what I am saying. The goal of disclosure is to bring the A to an end. In your case the A has ended, so the need to even consider disclosure is gone. I will say that Steve Harley is more of a proponent of disclosure in stages.

You are correct that the WS has a much easier time dealing with things if fewer people know, hence the lack of the need to "tell everyone" if the A is over.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just Learning,know I am being Just Curious.... why are you here?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excellent question and frankly I don't know if I can give you a good answer. I came here over 5 1/2 years ago, because my marriage was going through a down period. The concept of divorce was rattling around in my head. I found this site and was amazed at what I did NOT know. In those days this site was only one section everyone posted into it. I read and I read and did not register or post for about 6 months. I learned alot here and I learned how to change my marriage. I learned that I needed to change my perspective on things. I was amazed at the similarities (it was easier to see with everyone on one board), and dynamics of all of this, so I continued to read and learned.

Finally a lady posted who had had an affair and a child from that affair, and her marriage was struggling and it just got me so I registered and posted to her. And thus started a dialogue with many people here and more learning. That ladies marriage was saved I was to find out, many years later. I don't take any credit for that, nor any other marriages here. It is really the people themselves that save marriages, just as you and your H will.

One thing that will get to your here Myrta, is that it is a place that is filled with such hope and strength and learning. It is addictive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> so watch out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hold Old are you?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I am nearing 60.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How long you have been "advising" people here??? Have you kept track how many people you have helped and how many you have not? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I haven't kept track. As for helping people, well I don't know. You see I really think that people help themselves. Further, sometimes "success" is measure in a divorce rather than a continued marriage. This is not a marriage at all costs place, although the idea is that many more marriage can be saved, and not only Just saved, but enhanced with the knowledge that Harley has accumulated over his career.

This site offers information via Dr. Harley and his children who are also counselors. The discussion forum offers insight, experiences, someone to talk to, and people that are somewhat familiar with Harley's approach. The term "advising" is something I would use "advisedly" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , rather I would say we discuss things here. It is expected that the people in the discussions will take or leave any suggestions based on the "reality" of their situation. We do get people here that are just flat lying or playing games. We don't get both sides often except in a cases such as yours where both spouses are posting, which is great.

But, Myrta, the people that show up need to "talk" to someone, they need some suggestions as to how they should respond to situations and they are very hurt. Interestingly, these people are just as likely to be the Wayward Spouse as the Betrayed Spouse. The situation hurts both in different ways. In fact, some of the most influencial posters here are Former Wayward Spouses. I think that you will realize if you don't already know, that you do have pain and have been hurt by this A. It was your choice, but the fact remains A's do hurt people alot.

I realize you have seen only a bit of this, and your experience to date is not pleasant, but this is not a pleasant situation. However, I suspect if you read the articles here (they are by a well respected, successful professional (Dr. Harley)) you will learn alot and what we say will make some sense. Pay attention to what Harley says over what most anyone here says. That is my advice to you.

Well, Myrta have I answered your questions? I hope so. I do hope you will do some reading here, it will definitely cause you to think and I think it will help you and your H recover your marriage and make it something you both enjoy alot.

God Bless,

JL

JL:

Thank you once again for taking the time to talked to my wife Myrta.

I talked to Myrta last night about the phone calls from the OM. Apparently they were more calls than what I thought (not surprising). During all this time I kept asking my wife if there was any contact with the OM and she always said no (except the one I knew about). Since I had been reading the info here I knew that the probability Myrta was speaking to the OM was high. I harped on her the concept of withdrawal, but most of the time she was not receptive to discuss this. IN fact she accused me of using MB lingo too often and she was getting sick of it. She simply told me over and over again that I had nothing to worry about. In her mind she was sure she would not re-start the affair.

As to why she did not tell me about this. Well she admitted last night that there had been fog and withdrawal and that she needed to hear from the OM even if she had no plans to re-start the A. The affair lasted two years and I reassured her that it was hard to undo all of that in a few weeks.

As you know the OM turned out to be a serial cheater and my wife tells me that the last straw was when another OW called her to see what were my wife’s intentions with the OM. BTW, the OM was seeing this woman at the same time he was seeing Myrta. The OM lied to my wife about this------ somehow I am not surprised. In any event the appearance of this other OW was the last straw my wife needed to become disappointed with the OM. As to why couldn’t she see the OM’s true colors? I don’t know, but I am reminded of Scotty from the UK whose wife ran away with a convict. The addiction of an affair can be brutal and seems to cause an inability to see reality as it is. I am 100% sure Myrta could not see reality very well. I say this because my wife does not have a bad bone in her body. She is kind and the most unselfish person I know in the planet. BTW, the OM noted this and I believe he manipulated Myrta even thou she denies this.

As to why Myrta had the affair:

I don’t think we will ever know, but it must be a combination of things. Her age (late 40s), major marital problems with our two oldest kids, only one sex partner in her life, FOO, self-esteem issues, and my inability to provide one emotional need----- more attention. Another big reason was opportunity and convenience. Paradoxically if the OM had been local the affair may have never started. An active ingredient was the romance from long distance.

Regarding attention to my wife:

Don’t get me wrong I was not detached or disconnected from Myrta. I don’t drink, I am home most of the time, we went out regularly, ect. However, at this time Myrta was craving for romantic enchantment and that is something that a perfect stranger can do better. I told my wife that this is like comparing a brand new fast sports car with a 30-year-old sedan in the junkyard.

Myrta said that initially she was sky-high during the affair. She said she was FULL OF ENERGY AND VIGOR. Yes---- she was very high. The affair had become an addiction that she could not break it even thou she tried.

<small>[ September 17, 2004, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Stanley - Yep, a thirty year old sedan in the junkyard, I can relate to that.

JL:

I wanted to add my two cents to your reply to my wife:


It is really ashame that you drove KiwiJ off. She could offer you some insight as to these remarks. When she first came to this site her attitude was pretty defensive as your's is now.

My wife has said that she would love to be able to talk to another woman about her ordeal rather than the two of us going to MC. We initially tried that and ended with a lame counselor who just listened and offered few solutions.

There are subtle things that I am sure are/were in your marriage that are lost or damaged. The little things that don't seem so important now but will in the years to come. Those you will notice and so will your H. Those are loses that will bother you.

Many weeks ago I developed misty eyes as I recalled the former Myrta. I was simply grieving the loss of the wife I always knew and trusted. I was basically saying goodbye to the innocence of our relationship.

But, trust me Myrta, you will see more inside your H than you realize IF you ever quit trying to control and spin this to protect yourself. By the way, most do eventually realize that control and spin don't work as well as being open and loving.

I think we are slowly getting there. I plan to have open heart talks with her whenever she is in the mood. I just have to catch her at the right time.

Good, I am glad that you have your guilt under control. However, you over estimate how much your talking to your H in the early days helped, given that you were lying to him and still in contact with OM. One thing I think he got out of it, but you need to check with him, is that the marriage could be saved and he wanted that badly. I am sure he was relieved to know you wanted the marriage as well.

I don’t want Myrta to have a guilt party every day. I know she is sorry, that was obvious on D-day.

Initially I told her I could not accept the infidelity and headed for work. I was VERY close to ask an old friend (has a huge house with lots of room) for a place to stay and almost dialed the number of a family lawyer. Then I had a moment of serenity and realized I could not lose my wife. The fact that my wife wanted to stay in the marriage was a huge plus. I have to give her a lot of credit---- she knew from the get go that the OM was not a viable alternative for her. Her brain chemistry may have changed, but she could think this one thru quiet clearly!


My point is that once the A is over and WS has declared that they want the marriage, there is relief, and then there are huge DOUBTs on the part of the BS. Because they got what the wanted, but they are not sure what they wanted is what they got. They wanted the person they "thought" they were married to, but what they got is a person they don't know very well at all. This person is fully capable of dumping them, hurting them, lying to them

I dealt with this on a daily basis and it lead to ambivalent feelings were at one point I wanted to stay and in the next minute I was considering separation. This ambivalence was terrible! Now I am 100% into Myrta and the marriage and feel much better.

Then a new stage begins and this stage is filled with doubt, self-doubt, fear, pain, anger, and deep sorrow for the BS.

Exactly-----

When your H came here he was coming out of the euphoria of you deciding to stay with him and telling him you had ended the affair. So he was entering the doubting stage. This was further exacerbated by the fact that he found out you were still contacting the OM and had seen him physically.

Exactly------------------- the OM contact was a setback. However, I knew something was not right for several weeks. Now that everything is more open I feel MUCH better.

That is why I am hammering on your defenses. They need to come down so that he can see you, learn with you, and seek your help as you seek his.

That is my one of my goals.

Myrta, you don't need to prove a thing to me, it is your H that you need to see in a new light. It is you that you need to see in a new light. You are right it does take work, but really it does not have to be that painful, and it won't be if you will lower your defenses to your H.

I have said this before. We need radical honesty!


As for your H being vulnerable to one, yes he is more than ever, but most BS's don't have affairs at least not the ones that post here. However, you asked about vulnerabilities. If he felt you did not love him, if you had not ended the A, if you continued to LB him and defend your actions, if someone sympathetic to him came along and listened to him, validated his feelings, understood where he was coming from, THEN he would be very vulnerable to an affair.

To be honest right now I could not have an affair. For that to occur my wife would have to close herself to me and not offer any support or talk about the issues that bother me. At this point I can only talk to Myrta. NO one else knows about the A. I cannot spill my guts to anyone other than Myrta and this board.

Interestingly, many BS's report here that they think at one time or another of having a revenge affair to have as much "fun" as their spouse, but most don't do it.

From what I have read revenge affairs don’t work at all!

In fact, some of the most influential posters here are Former Wayward Spouses.

Hopefully at some point my wife will have an exchange with a former WW!

I think that you will realize if you don't already know, that you do have pain and have been hurt by this A. It was your choice, but the fact remains A's do hurt people a lot.

Myrta has a hard time accepting the negativity of the A. She mostly remembers the thrill, the secret meetings, and the romance. It was hard for her to accept that the OM was not a man of his word.

However, the important thing is that my wife is and continues to be an amazing woman and I will not let this rock in the highway get in the way of a happy ending.