Just Learning= <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I drove Kiwi off!! I dont think so. If she was sure of what she has to offer for advice, she will be here still. If she was in my "shoes" before, and she knows what I am going thru, she would know my reaction was a "normal"one.
As far as the things that are damaged or lost in our marriage, I would say the biggest one would be the "TRUST" he had in me before. Thats the thing that bothers me the most, but I am sure that with time, it would be restore. Is funny, because when I was growing up, my mom used to tell never trust anyone 100%, because at any time that person could turn around and stab you in the back. Even though my husband has been a "perfect" person, I never trust him completely. Because I know that we all make mistakes. But that did not stop me from being happy and content in my life.
As far, as my defensiveness goes, I have always being a defensive person. My husband can attest to that. IS Not a new thing or trait in me. Thats my personality.
And I am not trying to protect myself, the damage is done, I cannot undo it. I am trying to protect him from any further hurt, thats all. .
I've asked him over and over again, even accused him, that he wants out of the marriage, and he always assure me ,thats nnot what he wants. I asked him, because I know, that after all the initial fog from both sides, his mind is more normal, and what he thought , maybe was not really what he wanted. I really want him to be clear with his emotions and what he wants to do. I dont want that a year goes by and he decides that the A is too much for him to bear, and he wants a Divorce. If he wants to divorce me I am not pressuring him to stay with me. At the beginning of the discovery he used to say to me, that he would disclose the affair to our children. And that was my biggest fear, that they would know!
You know, Just Learning, is funny that you say I dont have to prove myself to you, but I feel that I have to. You see my husband reads your posts and advice like you are the Almighty of advice. So he takes every little word you say like is GOD!!! He likes your advice, your solutions. I think you seem too righteous and maybe thatss why YOU and I dont see eye to eye!
My husband , I know this for sure, has always being sure of my LOve for him, It does not matter if I open or clam up, he knows this. Because is not what I say, but what I do. And my actions even though I had an A, were of Love ALWAYS!!!
Again, I stand firm in my belief that if an Affair is exposed suddenly is not a positive thing for the marriage. Just because the "experts" believe that, I thing it would be contraproducent. An affair suddenly expose could make the people involved to make a crazy decision or move. For instance, if my husband would had gone behind my back and told our kids and our priest and our friends what I did, that would had make me , most probably, leave our home, and be with the OM. Not because of what I have with him, but because of the foggy state that a person is in. At the time of the affair, I really thought I love this man, he meant a lot to me, not just sexually, but we had long conversations . So if in the peak of the affair,it had been exposed, I would probably had believed that he was the love of my life. That he was my soul mate. But because the fog has been lifting gradually and because of things that I have found out, I can see that was not the case. It was just a sexual thing, nothing else. The love of my life, my soul mate, mymentor, my everything have always being my husband. I derailed in the tracks of my life for a bit, but I am back in track. And that is because good or bad my husband and I are handling this, in a way it works for us. Our way might not be the norm, but I think is working fine. And above all, we both know, that we are MEANT TO BE. I have been with my husband since I was 13 years old, and I am 49. We had gone thru valleys and hills and we are still here, I dont think ONE AFFAIR should be the destruction of everything we had built together.
He puts in a post address to you, that he came to the realization that the innocence of our marriage was gone. I think that was the mistake and why I had the affair, because he thought I was still the little girl he met, and that NO EFFORT from his part was good enough for me. He did not noticed that I was an adult, a woman that needed and wanted other things in the relationship.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
I want to thank you for all your time writing me and being supportive of my husband. I guess he needs that from somebody else, other than me.
How was your marriage different before you got here? What did you do to improve it? How long have you been married? Has your wife posted here as well?
God Bless You too!
Myrta!

<small>[ September 18, 2004, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

Myrta, actually you did scare me off a bit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I guess I came across as a bit self righteous but I think it's only because it took me so long to get out of my foggy state. I was probably one of the foggiest FWW's this board has seen - and that's saying something. I had an 18 month A with my old high school b/f. I wanted him to leave his wife. It really was an exit A. My H was terribly depressed because in the previous year my father, his father and his mother had all died within 6 months of each other. I just wasn't capable of dealing with his grief. The whole year had just been too much for us to cope with and we just didn't know how to communicate about it. Enter, unexpectedly, old b/f from the past and there it was - an A waiting to happen.

The A was over by the time my H found out (OM had told me he was never going to leave his w and that he wanted it over). I was absolutely staggered by how much my H loved me and how hard he was going to fight for me. We went to MC and she was a very good, very pro marriage MC. Then I found MB and JL (and all the other lovely people here). Between them all they questioned me and gave advice and slowly reality started to dawn on me. I'd been used by someone I had trusted when I was a teenager and it hurt.

Meanwhile I was struggling to find the feelings I knew I had for my H. We've been married 30 years and I knew they had been good, happy years.

It's funny you say you thought Stanley was perfect. That was what I kept throwing at my H. I used to say "of course, you're not like the rest of us - you wouldn't make such stupid mistakes. You've never made a mistake in your life." He said, and our MC said, stop putting him on a pedestal - accept that he's human and flawed just like you.

We're rather fond of JL round here. He called me a "handfull" once and I called him a "dinosaur" but it was all meant affectionately. Hmmm, at least I think it was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I don't know how he does it but he has a knack of getting to the heart of the matter.

Myrta, I apologise for being a bit rough on you. I just want everyone to reach the stage my H and I are at. (Recovered <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Jen

<small>[ September 18, 2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

Hey all. This is becoming my favorite thread. We've got it all here. A FWW who speaks her mind, a loving BH, JL who can hold his own, KiwiJ who came back for more, and believer, who is taking this all in.

Hang on folks, its gonna be a rough ride.

Dear Myrta

your posts make it very clear you want your H and M and are trying to do all that you can to stop his pain and hurt.

You know, I think a good part of your reluctance to not discuss the affair is part of that desire to protect him.
I think that maybe you want it to go away so he can stop hurting.

However, the affair, what happened and why just go around and around inside our heads day after day. You see you can't make it go away. It will never go away, but the pain, the hurt, and the loss of trust will fade and God willing, disappear with time. He will learn to trust you again as you show him you can be trusted.
Your actions will show him that.

Unfortunately this will take TIME, it can take years Myrta, and there is not a lot you can do to speed it up. Just keep loving him, showing him you are trustworthy and accept him with all his doubts of you. Sometimes I'm sure he'll have a relapse and feel down and bitter, well thats natural, again time will help a lot. You'll just have to wait for him Myrta, as difficlut as it may be you cannot MAKE him get over it.

I misunderstood my wifes reluctance to discuss her affair as a desire to not tell me everything. I forgot to see that she needed to feel safe and secure to talk about this. Anger and bitterness will last a long time I guess, but we both have to decide not to let it rule our lives.
Our MC says there is a place for the BS justified anger, along with the hurt, bitterness and pain, and that there is also a place for the WS to accept it. I suppose learning to place those emotions in the right context is part of what the MC helps us do.
If Stanley needs that help please go with him to a MC and support him.

Part of the healing process is asking questions about the affair, many times the same questions over and over again. I know this must be a real pain in the you know what for you, & my wife too I guess, but I think its a way we handle the reality of the affair. From your point of view I surmise you see it as just going over the same pain and digging it up time after time, but for me at least, it is my way of confirming the truth from my wife, that the facts are what they are - the trust issue - and then being able to process that information. Yes it renews my anger and hurt but I think less and less each time.
Perhaps Stanley is doing the same thing.

I suppose we could argue for ever over the issue of exposure, but it doesn't matter if the affair is over does it? Yes it does work and yes it can backfire. The thing is though that usually its done from what I have seen as a desperate move to end the affair going on so the BS feels there not much too loose anyway. I know its not meant that way but it seems to happen that way in actuality a lot. Anyway its a moot point here.

I do think from your posts that there are things you don't want to accept that Stanley is saying to you. This is where the facts and the feelings can become separate.
It doesn't matter if what Stanley says is not actually factual as far as you are concerned, what is IMPORTANT is that Stanley feels that way and you need to accept that he feels a certain way and discuss how the issues can be resolved and bring some closure. Again this will take time and you have to allow him that time.
Its a bit like both of you seeing a car smash, when you recall it you can have completely different impressions of what went on.

Myrta, I'm not sure at all that anyone can say that somehwere down the track after an affair, that the BS will not say I can't get over it I want out. It might be a year or 2 or 5 or whatever. I guess there are no guarantees however it doesn't sound to me at all that Stanley wants out.

My feeling is that the two of you will put the effort in and make it.

God bless the both of you

Is funny, because when I was growing up, my mom used to tell never trust anyone 100%, because at any time that person could turn around and stab you in the back. Even though my husband has been a "perfect" person, I never trust him completely. Because I know that we all make mistakes. But that did not stop me from being happy and content in my life.

I am the other way around------------- I always trusted my wife. I always assumed my wife was not trusting because she was a little insecure. In fact I went away on a golf outing for a long weekend and she was checking up on me to make sure I was not meeting another woman. Myrta did this while she was having her affair.

As far, as my defensiveness goes, I have always being a defensive person. My husband can attest to that. IS Not a new thing or trait in me. Thats my personality.

I can verify that!

I've asked him over and over again, even accused him, that he wants out of the marriage,

I wanted a divorce during the 1st 16 hours following D-day. My wife made it clear she wanted to stay with me even thou I felt she was madly in love with the OM. I saw the love letters Myrta wrote via email. I asked her to go away with the OM, but she refused. My wife promised me the affair was over and that she had dumped the OM. I wrote an email to the OM and politely asked him to stay away. I was very naïve----- I thought I was done with the OM and I had no concept of things like fog and withdrawal!

I dont want that a year goes by and he decides that the A is too much for him to bear, and he wants a Divorce.

I don’t want a divorce, that is quite clear. However, I want to heal properly and I need to talk things over so I NEVER GO INTO A CHRONIC STAGE OF ANGER AND RESENTMENT.

You see my husband reads your posts and advice like you are the Almighty of advice. So he takes every little word you say like is GOD!!! He likes your advice, your solutions. I think you seem too righteous and maybe that’s why YOU and I don’t see eye to eye!

I am not touching this one, but my wife has called me righteous before. BTW, I am not a religious fanatic and I am a moderate to the left of the middle. I am a very tolerant person.

My husband , I know this for sure, has always being sure of my Love for him, It does not matter if I open or clam up, he knows this. Because is not what I say, but what I do. And my actions even though I had an A, were of Love ALWAYS!!!

I only suspected there was something wrong at the tail end of the affair when the OM was in town every 2-3 weeks. Before that the physical contact was so sporadic that I could not detect any change in Myrta’s behavior. Other than that she continued to be a loving wife, however---------------- she started to say no to my advances in bed when the OM started to come into town. I asked her many times what was wrong, but never got a straight answer.

Again, I stand firm in my belief that if an Affair is exposed suddenly is not a positive thing for the marriage.

Actually in our case I believe exposure was not needed. I certainly would not want to harm my children and I did not want my ordeal to be a public issue. I was highly embarrassed and felt minimized as a man since Myrta was avoiding me in bed and running away to the OM. Not a pretty site------------- I felt very sad. I did not want anyone to know about this. I give credit to my wife because she immediately became hypersexual with me after D-day and constantly told me how much she loved me.

But because the fog has been lifting gradually and because of things that I have found out, I can see that was not the case. It was just a sexual thing, nothing else. The love of my life, my soul mate, my mentor, my everything have always being my husband.

I agree with that! Myrta is right---- she is different and even thou her behavior was textbook in many aspects she did other things quite differently. For example she may have abandoned me in bed, but she continued to be a loving wife in all other regards. We didn’t talk as much as we could, but I thought everything was OK.


He puts in a post address to you, that he came to the realization that the innocence of our marriage was gone. I think that was the mistake and why I had the affair, because he thought I was still the little girl he met, and that NO EFFORT from his part was good enough for me. He did not noticed that I was an adult, a woman that needed and wanted other things in the relationship.

Myrta did not complain to me once about my lack of attention before or during the affair. However, in the more distant past she always communicated about lack of romance and things like that. This time around she remained silent. I think that is typical and it probably means she gave up on me. The innocence is the way I felt about my wife and the fact that she is the only sex partner I ever had.

In any event my wife has proven to me an amazing woman and she is the dream wife for any man out there. Myrta is truly remarkable woman and I know she would be destroyed by exposure. She could never face her kids, family, friends, or anyone else I can think off other than the OM himself.

<small>[ September 18, 2004, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Kiwij:

I have a few questions for you.
1. How do you see the OM now that you are out of the fog?
2. How do you see your husband in relationship to the OM? How did you see your husband during the affair?
3. Do you remember the affair as a very positive experience in your life?
4. When did you develop feelings for your husband again?

Obviously I have some concerns with my own wife regarding these issues. It was very hard for me to accept she was madly inn love with OM.

5. Will there come a time when my wife sees the A in a different light?

<small>[ September 18, 2004, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Stanley, I'm going to be really honest here.

1. How do you see the OM now that you are out of the fog?

Well, I see him as someone who was reasonably honest with me. He told me right from the start the A was an "add on" to his marriage. He loved his w and was very proud of her. I went through a period of hating him, now I'm reasonably indifferent but I think he will always be dangerous to me. I don't know if that makes me still foggy. It goes along with what Dr Harley says in His Needs/Her Needs i.e. NC has to be forever.

2. How do you see your husband in relationship to the OM? How did you see your husband during the affair?

My H is a far, far better person than the OM. Stronger, more ethical and moral, loves me unconditionally and passionately. During the affair I didn't "see" him. I mean that, he was invisible to me. We never stopped having sex (H and I) during the affair but I never imagined the OM in his place or anything like that.

3. Do you remember the affair as a very positive experience in your life?

No, not positive - when JL talks about losing something he doesn't mean just trust. I lost the chance to look back over 30 years and know I had been totally faithful. I've stained a very good relationship. On the other hand, H and I would have grown further and further apart if the A hadn't brought everything to a head. He was aging before his time and the A sort of jolted him back to the man he was before. Fun and sexy.

4. When did you develop feelings for your husband again?

They came back very, very slowly. The affair finished in June last year. Last contact with OM was in January this year when I told him my H knew everything and I had promised H I would never see OM again. It probably took till about May/June this year when we were on the verge of separating to realise that I did NOT want to lose my H and that I loved him.

Stanley, I still struggle with some of this. I know that I want to be with my H for the rest of our lives, I know that the OM was a fantasy and an escape from a particularly bad time in our lives but it was a long, very emotionally charged affair. They say it takes 2 years and I think it will take 2 years to really put this behind us and for me never to think of the OM again.

I'm worried that all that still sounds foggy. What do you think?

Jen

Kiwi,, I am glad you are back and again want to apologize to you for being so harsh before.

By your last post to my husband I can see why you got scared though! You are still very much in withdrawal. And by your words I would say, much more than myself. My D-Day was only 3 1/2 months ago, and I think my mind is much more clear than yours. My husband has been accusing me since yesterday that I stayed with him, because of convenience , our children,etc. He says that I sacrifized my "love for the OM" for him. That is not so true! You see ,, everytime he looks for me in bed (almost everynight) if I refuse him, is because I dont love him, and I rather be with the OM. If I say NO to him in bed, he says that I am acting the same as before, when I was having the A. I like, I love my husband and I enjoyed our sexual life very much, but sometimes I am just not in the mood or I am too tired, and I rather not do it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Why can he understand this? Is really not so hard to.

I love how my husband is so attentive to me now, how I arouse him by just looking at him, I flirt with him all the time, because I love his reaction. I love my husband, I never stopped loving him.

I think I was like your ex-lover, I was using the affair as a supplement to my marriage, never intending of making a life with with the OM. I know that the OM still loves me, and I could make a life with him. But thats not what I want!!! I want my marriage to be a great marriage and for everything to work out.

I agree with you that the affair in my case also was a wake up call for my husband. He seems younger, more playful, I like how he is now much more than before. Before he seemed like an old man, even though he is only 53. One thing that attracted me to the OM was all the energy that my husband was lacking.

I should say, that I have a distant friend that is having an affair for the last three years, I wish I could tell her about me, but my husband forbidd me from doing so. She is really deep into the web of the affair. She does the craziests things for the other man, she has been married for 22 years. The OM is over 10 years her senior, and he is really bad news from what she says to me, but she risks everything and then some more. She even leaves her home, after her husband is asleep to go to the other man's house!!! She is totally crazy!

Kiwi, I wish you and I could talk face to face and compare notes with each other. You seem to be a very nice person, that wants her marriage to work out, just like me. I need my husband to believe that I want US to be the best EVER!

<small>[ September 19, 2004, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

Aussie2----thank you for you words and confidence in our marriage. I really want all this to go away as fast as possible, and put it behind us and see it as a nightmare that never happened. But I know that is too much to ask. I know is going to be with us for a long time, maybe forever!

I trully feel very bad when I talk about the details with my husband, it makes me feels like I am a prostitute. And I know I am hurting my husband over and over again, by telling him all the details. But he insists, just like you, that is the best way to deal with it.

Is your wife more talkative now? Has she told you everything about her affair? When you look at her iin her eyes, do you look at her with accusing eyes, or with loving eyes? I sometimes feel that my husband looks at me with evil, accusing eyes, and it makes me so uncomfortable. I wished I never had the affair, but I cannot un do it. It happened, and I have to deal with myself, my husband, my children (if they ever find out).

Do you have children?

I dont feel like I am in a foggy state anymore, and if I am, is almost nothing. I feel that as soon as the D-Day happened, I turned myself off to the OM. Even though at the beginning I really wanted to hear his voice,see him, be with him. I was in a different boat already.
From day one, I wanted the OM to be out of my life, I never doubt that!

Do you pressure your wife to have sex with you 24-7?
If yes, does she always agree?? This sperm competion of my husband is sometimes too much for me.

Sometimes I just want him to be by me, without him thinking about Sex.

Thank you for all the advice !
Myrta

<small>[ September 19, 2004, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

1. How do you see the OM now that you are out of the fog?

Well, I see him as someone who was reasonably honest with me. He told me right from the start the A was an "add on" to his marriage. He loved his w and was very proud of her. I went through a period of hating him, now I'm reasonably indifferent but I think he will always be dangerous to me. I don't know if that makes me still foggy. It goes along with what Dr Harley says in His Needs/Her Needs i.e. NC has to be forever.

Obviously I asked because of certain things my wife has said about the OM. 1st of all Myrta has defended the integrity of the OM and called him a great father and husband who simply fell out of love from his wife. At the time my wife met him he had already left the marriage twice (presumably because of affairs). OM told my wife that the last OW broke his marriage by calling his wife to break the news.

As you know the OM was seeing another woman on the side at the same time he was with Myrta.

On D-day I had told Myrta that because the OM was not local he likely had another woman on the side. Myrta vehemently defended the integrity of the OM and affirmed the OM would never betray her.

Two days ago I casually told my wife that in a couple of years we would forget the whole thing and that the OM and the affair would be a distant unpleasant event. I guess I was speaking more for myself, but in any event Myrta quickly responded by saying she would never forget the OM because he was A VERY IMPORTANT MAN IN HER LIFE! Obviously these type of statements hurt me deeply and I have struggled with her persistent desire to present the OM as an outstanding person.


2. How do you see your husband in relationship to the OM? How did you see your husband during the affair?

My H is a far, far better person than the OM. Stronger, more ethical and moral, loves me unconditionally and passionately. During the affair I didn't "see" him. I mean that, he was invisible to me. We never stopped having sex (H and I) during the affair but I never imagined the OM in his place or anything like that.


I will be honest and will blow my own horn. I truly believe Myrta’s OM is vastly inferior to me. I think I am the better man in terms of looks, education, income, ethics, intelligence, height, and fitness (OM is morbidly obese, I am of normal weight). The OM is also a cunning man who asked Myrta for money to pay for his own expenses. Myrta is a housewife--------------- so the OM knew quite well he was using my money to pay for his hotel room, ect.

My wife avoided me in bed and this developed when she was in her late 40s and I was entering my early 50s. When I questioned what was going on she said that things were changing (I assumed she meant age). To be honest I started to lose interest in sex and somehow adapted to twice a month at the end of the affair (down from twice a week several months earlier). Now everytime she refuses my advances in bed I get quite anxious and immediately think about the prior refusals.


3. Do you remember the affair as a very positive experience in your life?

No, not positive - when JL talks about losing something he doesn't mean just trust. I lost the chance to look back over 30 years and know I had been totally faithful. I've stained a very good relationship. On the other hand, H and I would have grown further and further apart if the A hadn't brought everything to a head. He was aging before his time and the A sort of jolted him back to the man he was before. Fun and sexy.

We have been married for 31 years and it really hurts me that Myrta did not see this as something special. As you know Myrta is my only sex partner and likewise she never had intercourse with another man other than me.

Like you I am somewhat happy that I know have a vigorous sex drive and a zest for life (despite the turmoil)------------------- This is the end result of the affair. However, I still think Myrta is in withdrawal as she continued to talk to the OM for many weeks and only stopped doing so a couple of weeks ago. It must be noted it has been almost four months since D-day. Myrta thought that everything was OK because she always saw herself as the perfect wife. During the affair she always thought she could give me all I needed as a man. However, I had noted she was distant and not loving anymore. I complained a few times, but did not make a big issue about it.

Myrta also thought she could end the affair with little problem and didn’t think it was a big deal to continue contact with the OM.


4. When did you develop feelings for your husband again?

They came back very, very slowly. The affair finished in June last year. Last contact with OM was in January this year when I told him my H knew everything and I had promised H I would never see OM again. It probably took till about May/June this year when we were on the verge of separating to realize that I did NOT want to lose my H and that I loved him.


I am convinced that my wife has not regained the love she had for me. She was profoundly in love with the OM and continued contact until two weeks ago. There has to be some withdrawal, but she denies it. It was only two weeks ago that she received the phone call from the other woman that the OM was dating on the side. I guess at this point she finally decided she was done with the OM. I can tell her libido is not what it used to be even thou she seems to be quite loving. A positive note is that she knows quite well that leaving the marriage for the OM is not a viable option. ON D-day she did not hesitate about her decision to dump the OM to stay in the marriage.


Stanley, I still struggle with some of this. I know that I want to be with my H for the rest of our lives, I know that the OM was a fantasy and an escape from a particularly bad time in our lives but it was a long, very emotionally charged affair. They say it takes 2 years and I think it will take 2 years to really put this behind us and for me never to think of the OM again.

I'm worried that all that still sounds foggy. What do you think?


Jen, I think my wife wants the same. I am amazed at how similar these WW/OM stories are. However, I still have a hard time understanding how WW(s) fall in love with OM(s) . I assume it must be the novelty of a new body in bed. Like I said before it is like comparing a brand new sports car with a 30-year-old junky sedan.

As for your desire to be withy your H. I think my wife feels like you do, but I am having a hard time accepting a woman who still thinks about another man. I am willing to fight for my marriage, but I am assuming my wife wants the same. I will not fight anymore if I am the only one trying to improve the marriage. Obviously I was devastated by Myrta’s communication with OM. IN many ways it made me look like a fool once again since I had told the OM not to bother to talk to my wife because she was now completely honest with me.

BTW, I don’t think there is anything wrong or evil about WW(s) like you and Myrta. I think some of us are wired to be susceptible for affairs whereas others are different. I asked Cerri why some women are prone to affairs and not others and she claimed that perhaps WW(s) simply fall in love easily. I can assured you my wife is a great woman with a huge heart. Affairs change brain chemistry to a greater degree than conventional romance between unattached people. Because the meetings are more sparse and can only occur in secrecy the whole thing becomes a HUGE addiction and all actions become somewhat irrational.

As for OM(s) they are mostly smooth talking cunning men------ I have no doubt!

Stanley -

The affair was brain chemistry and had nothing to do with love. I hope that you will be able to accept that.

As far as the sex, trust me, it is all pretty much the same with different men. The thing that makes it exciting is the thoughts in the brain.

Your need to "reclaim" Myrta with constant sex is very normal. Hopefully you will let her rest up once in awhile.

I think your marriage will do just fine. For one thing, Myrta decided on D-day that she wanted to stay married - somewhat unusual. If you read the stories here, that doesn't happen very often.

And secondly, she is here at marriagebuilders. Most spouses of posters do not come here.

I Think the A will be with us Myrta for all our lives, I hope though that we can find our peace with it eventually.

I guess for me the details are required so I can put to rest the movies of my wife and the om which my imagination makes worse than ever. I feel if I know the worst I can have some control over how I feel and what has happened. I’m not sure it makes too much sense but it seems to help.
As for my wife being more talkative, well sometimes. She is ok at the MC but doesn’t like talking about it at home. I think she feels it brings something dirty and disgusting into our home.
My thoughts on that are that like the affair, she wants to keep the details of that and what happens in our M separate. Of course you cant in the real world and that’s where we clash so often. Talking about it at the MC has stopped us tearing away at each other. Its not avoiding it but allowing the matter to be discussed where she feels safe and to give her due credit, where she knows I can also get support from the MC.
I’m not sure she has told me everything, to a certain extent her memory is a bit vague because she was drunk every time. She actually admitted she had to be drunk to have sex with the OM. She rarely ever drinks at all and this really surprised me.
Looking at my wife. Well you have hit a nerve there Myrta. Things between us got worse after D day & as time went on. It got to the stage where if she touched me I would be physically sick. Now that was not only the A, it was also a side effect of war related PTSD, it helped her to know that but it made things very difficult. I can only thank God it didn’t last long and disappeared as quickly as it came, in fact only a week ago.
I’m very sure it hurt her a lot regardless of the reason and she probably feels it was because I felt she was’ dirty’ or something. I’ve explained it was not that & so has the doctors and MC but ????? Yeah but my guess is nothing I say or do will make her think otherwise for a long while.

We have two kids Myrta, girl turns 18 next week and 16 yr boy who is 17 in December. Unfortunately they did find out what happened and it has been difficult. My daughter and her mum have had some knock down drag out fights recently . It is mostly due to the A , its just something we have to get through as a family.

During the A the sex was intense, I just didn’t know about the A, after dd it dropped off for us very quickly, though as I said it was more related to the war PTSD which flared up to. Was this related to the A? maybe helped set it off again but who knows.
We are only slowly working on it now.

Well keep plugging away Myrta at the relationship and keep talking with Stanley.

My husband has been accusing me since yesterday that I stayed with him, because of convenience , our children, etc. He says that I sacrificed my "love for the OM" for him.

Honestly I don’t know what to believe. My wife says she loves me, but in the aftermath of an affair I find In have lost all confidence in myself. It also bothers me a great deal that the OM truly believes that my wife stopped the affair to live an unhappy existence with me the BH. Trust me on this one, this is what the OM wants to believe.

That is not so true! You see ,, every time he looks for me in bed (almost every night) if I refuse him, is because I don’t love him, and I rather be with the OM. If I say NO to him in bed, he says that I am acting the same as before, when I was having the A.

This thing is very hard to explain. The only time I did not feel this urge to have sex was the night of D-day when I actually felt repulsion when my wife tried to embrace me. Otherwise I have this inexplicable desire to have sex. I look at my wife and see nothing, but the most sexy woman in the world and I am immediately overcome. The thing is that my wife wants everything to be like old times and has drifted back to our typical frequency of twice per week. I have tried to adjust and even proposed a system with sex on Wednesday and to leave the weekend open. However, Myrta does not seem to work very well with such a thing as a schedule when it comes to sex.

I arouse him by just looking at him, I flirt with him all the time, because I love his reaction.

She flirts a lot and really gets me going and then says she is too tired afterwards. I am confused!

I love my husband, I never stopped loving him.

Another mystery of life. She loved me while having the affair. I think it may very well be true.

I think I was like your ex-lover, I was using the affair as a supplement to my marriage, never intending of making a life with the OM. I know that the OM still loves me, and I could make a life with him. But that’s not what I want!!! I want my marriage to be a great marriage and for everything to work out.

I think Myrta started this as a sideline and felt safe since for a whole year this was an internet and phone relationship. Then the brain chemistry changed and the rest is history. I don’t understand how some folks fall in love over the Internet--- I cannot do that!

One thing that attracted me to the OM was all the energy that my husband was lacking.

Sure, the brand new sports car versus the old junky 30-year-old sedan. Hey I could also get enthusiastic with a new body, that is human nature!

and see it as a nightmare that never happened. But I know that is too much to ask. I know is going to be with us for a long time, maybe forever!

Wow! I am impressed with <Myrta. Until recently she and the OM saw the affair as a beautiful love story.

I truly feel very bad when I talk about the details with my husband, it makes me feels like I am a prostitute. And I know I am hurting my husband over and over again, by telling him all the details. But he insists, just like you, that is the best way to deal with it.

I don’t really ask for a detailed description of coitus or whatever else they did. However, I need to know the circumstances, when, where, and how many times. I guess after a while the frequency may be meaningless, however there is a difference between 20 and 200 times. Other details may seem meaningless to the WW, but they are important to me. Fir example on one occasion the OM had an illness with an eruption all over his body and swelling in the face, ect. ON another occasion the OM wanted tom see a movie rather than have sex. The OM used to take a pill before sex and told my wife it was for his diabetes. I suspect it was a hefty dose of Viagra so a 50 year-old could perform like a 20 year-old.

I sometimes feel that my husband looks at me with evil, accusing eyes, and it makes me so uncomfortable. I wished I never had the affair, but I cannot un do it. It happened, and I have to deal with myself, my husband, my children (if they ever find out).

I don’t look at my wife that way anymore, but I did in the past.


I don’t feel like I am in a foggy state anymore, and if I am, is almost nothing. I feel that as soon as the D-Day happened, I turned myself off to the OM. Even though at the beginning I really wanted to hear his voice, see him, be with him. I was in a different boat already.
From day one, I wanted the OM to be out of my life, I never doubt that!

As I said before I was highly gratified with my wife’s behavior after D-day and that was a huge factor in motivating me to make everything work in our marriage.


The affair was brain chemistry and had nothing to do with love. I hope that you will be able to accept that.

In my wife’s case it has to be chemistry. Do you think one year of internet and phone romance can change the brain chemistry to such a degree that the PA becomes easy to accomplish.

As far as the sex, trust me, it is all pretty much the same with different men. The thing that makes it exciting is the thoughts in the brain.

I explained this to my wife------------- It is all between the ears.

Your need to "reclaim" Myrta with constant sex is very normal. Hopefully you will let her rest up once in awhile.

At the onset I felt like maniac, that is good to know!

I’m not sure she has told me everything, to a certain extent her memory is a bit vague because she was drunk every time. She actually admitted she had to be drunk to have sex with the OM. She rarely ever drinks at all and this really surprised me.

Well Aussie I wished my wife had been drunk, however she was fully conscious.

Looking at my wife. Well you have hit a nerve there Myrta. Things between us got worse after D day & as time went on. It got to the stage where if she touched me I would be physically sick. Now that was not only the A, it was also a side effect of war related PTSD, it helped her to know that but it made things very difficult. I can only thank God it didn’t last long and disappeared as quickly as it came, in fact only a week ago.

Two stressful situations like that at the same time must be hard Aussie. I am glad you are coping. In my case I need my wife’s touch as much as possible.

We have two kids Myrta, girl turns 18 next week and 16 yr boy who is 17 in December. Unfortunately they did find out what happened and it has been difficult. My daughter and her mum have had some knock down drag out fights recently . It is mostly due to the A , its just something we have to get through as a family.

It must be very hard on the kids Aussie. In my case my children see my wife as the most perfect person in the world. I would do anything to keep the affair secret. I would even invent another reason for separation. However, I doubt we will ever be apart.

<small>[ September 19, 2004, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Aussie2---so you pretty much felt and feels the same my husband does. He had told me that it was a pretty common thing to know all the details, but I thought it was not true. If it had been the other way around I would not like to know all the details. I would pressume as well, that you had never had an affair like my husband. If it was your wife having the affair, would you want her to be asking you day in and day out about everything that happened? Would you expect her to forgive you, I mean truly forgive you? Or you think if we were the ones in your place, we would have to behave different because we are women? Even though Society is so liberated now a days, is always harder for women than for men. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
My husband has been kinda of moody yesterday and today. His body language is of an unhappy man, and I dont like to see him that way. I think it just started after I wrote to Just Learning and Kiwi yesterday. He says that he reads "between lines". I really dont know what he is reading. He is claiming that I dont love him, that I am still in love with the OM. He is in a passive-aggressive mood with me. He wants to fight and say things, but he stops himself because he has been advised here, thats not the way to deal with the problem. Last night also, because I refused his advances in bed, he was hurt. Cannot take a simple no for an answer, he thinks there is something evil behind my no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
How long ago was your DD? How did your children find out? I think it would be such an embarrassing thing to go thru with your kids. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Take care!
Myrta

Myrta, Aussie and Stanley, it never ceases to amaze me that A's are so much the same the world over.

Myrta, I can only read that you are serious about your marriage - that's all that is coming from between the lines.

My H and I never, never discuss the A any more which I find not so good. It's like we're afraid to go to those very emotional places we were in just after d-day. We are going through a bit of a drama at home right now. Our daughter has just broken up with her b/f of 8 years (she's 24) and came home this weekend. I've been talking about relationships non stop with her all weekend and I can see my H is a bit uncomfortable with all the talk. Because we don't talk about "us" any more I feel I can't bring up our relationship and ask him if anything is bothering him still. My kids both know about the A and my daughter told me it helped her talk to me about her b/f knowing me and H have done such a lot of relationship work ourselves recently.

My H never asked for details. He wanted very badly to know time frames so he could get a picture in his mind about where he was while this was going on. He said he didn't need to know details as he's had sex with me for 30 years and can imagine what it was like as I pulled out all the stops to get OM away from his w. And he is absolutely right on that. Sex with the OM was extremely ordinary and nothing like the wonderful, passionate sex I had and continue to have with my H. I do sometimes feel that ALL affection doesn't have to lead to sex and I try to communicate that with my H.

Stanley, your w is doing extremely well. You will recover but as JL is so fond of saying, time and patience.

BTW Myrta, you said I was still in withdrawal. It's funny, normally I'm not in the least bit foggy but this last week has been a bit weird. OM was seriously just a blur but just lately fogginess seems to have reared it's head again. The important thing is I KNOW it's just fogginess, I certainly don't intend to act on it and it will go again very soon. I think because life is so normal at home now I'm frightened we'll fall into our old patterns again and it's up to me to make sure H and I start communicating properly again.

Jen

PS Aussie when you said in another post "a few snaggers short of a BBQ" I LOL. That was such an aussie/kiwi-ism and in a foreign language on this board. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Myrta,

You have said many things but one of them is that you are not in withdrawal or the fog now. I beg to differ with you. In this post I am going to post some quotes of yours and some of your H’s and I hope you begin to see that you are far from seeing this thing as it needs to be seen for YOU to achieve your goals.

First, off while I am glad that KiwiJ, decided to post again here, I think your response to her efforts initially are NOT justified by what you said here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I drove Kiwi off!! I dont think so. If she was sure of what she has to offer for advice, she will be here still. If she was in my "shoes" before, and she knows what I am going thru, she would know my reaction was a "normal"one. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don’t thinks response by you to here, is about being in YOUR shoes. It was the response of a woman that did not and really still does not want to face a few things.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I emailed my W the response by Jen and W mailed it right back to me saying:

"TELL JEN TO F---- OFF!"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am glad that you two are now posting but a your apology to someone who was and is trying to help you and your H, was a bit late in my opinion.

You said
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I dont feel like I am in a foggy state anymore, and if I am, is almost nothing. I feel that as soon as the D-Day happened, I turned myself off to the OM. Even though at the beginning I really wanted to hear his voice,see him, be with him. I was in a different boat already.
From day one, I wanted the OM to be out of my life, I never doubt that! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, but your H sure does and with good reason, the lies.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I love how my husband is so attentive to me now, how I arouse him by just looking at him, I flirt with him all the time, because I love his reaction. I love my husband, I never stopped loving him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your H responded with </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am convinced that my wife has not regained the love she had for me. She was profoundly in love with the OM and continued contact until two weeks ago. There has to be some withdrawal, but she denies it. It was only two weeks ago that she received the phone call from the other woman that the OM was dating on the side. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta you also said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> At the time of the affair, I really thought I love this man, he meant a lot to me, not just sexually, but we had long conversations . So if in the peak of the affair,it had been exposed, I would probably had believed that he was the love of my life. That he was my soul mate. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I dont think ONE AFFAIR should be the destruction of everything we had built together. He puts in a post address to you, that he came to the realization that the innocence of our marriage was gone. I think that was the mistake and why I had the affair, because he thought I was still the little girl he met, and that NO EFFORT from his part was good enough for me. He did not noticed that I was an adult, a woman that needed and wanted other things in the relationship </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Neither of these statements instill confidence in your H but they do reflect how you felt and perhaps feel. You did love OM, and you denied your H in bed and with drew from him. It is hard for him to read that you ALWAYS loved him when clearly your actions said you did not. Finally, you think that “one affair” is no big deal based on your last quote. It is a big deal Myrta. It has not only eroded your H’s trust but it puts doubts in his mind about whether you would actually stay with him if he was injured or developed poor health. It puts doubts in his mind as to what sort of W you will be.

You then say to Jenny that
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My D-Day was only 3 1/2 months ago, and I think my mind is much more clear than yours. My husband has been accusing me since yesterday that I stayed with him, because of convenience , our children,etc. He says that I sacrifized my "love for the OM" for him. That is not so true! You see ,, everytime he looks for me in bed (almost everynight) if I refuse him, is because I dont love him, and I rather be with the OM. If I say NO to him in bed, he says that I am acting the same as before, when I was having the A. I like, I love my husband and I enjoyed our sexual life very much, but sometimes I am just not in the mood or I am too tired, and I rather not do it. Why can he understand this? Is really not so hard to. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He cannot understand this because you did deny him in bed when you had the affair and you did it for a period of time. And YOU are acting the same as before, but he doesn’t know the reason now and he did not know the reason then. Myrta, you are deceiving yourself if you think you can sweep this under the rug and NOT see things from your H’s point of view. He UNDERSTANDS more than you are or are willing to admit right now. You are in withdrawal and while D-day was 3 ½ months ago, it has only been in the last two weeks that you ceased contact with OM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I've asked him over and over again, even accused him, that he wants out of the marriage, and he always assure me ,thats nnot what he wants. I asked him, because I know, that after all the initial fog from both sides, his mind is more normal, and what he thought , maybe was not really what he wanted. I really want him to be clear with his emotions and what he wants to do. I dont want that a year goes by and he decides that the A is too much for him to bear, and he wants a Divorce. If he wants to divorce me I am not pressuring him to stay with me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, he did not want 30 years to go by and you suddenly decide to try out another man either. If you are not going to “pressure” him to stay with you, then it implies that you are not willing to do the work of seeing things from his perspective and how he has been hurt by this. Is that what you are saying? You can distrust him all you want, but it does not change the fact that you are the one that has acted in a non-trustworthy fashion. It is time you stopped this and really looked at this carefully. Quit accusing him of your crime and work on rebuilding as there is more to do than you think. Especially since you two are only 3.5 months out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He likes your advice, your solutions. I think you seem too righteous and maybe thatss why YOU and I dont see eye to eye! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, “righteous” is not a word I would use. I am glad that likes my advice, and my solutions, but let me ask you, why should that cause YOU to not see eye to eye with me? Are you saying that anything your H likes, is going to make you mad? Are you saying that you wished your H never thought about this and ignored it, and felt nothing? Are you saying that the BIGGEST betrayal of his life should illicit no response except to continue to love you?? Why does it bother you that he would like my “advice and solutions?” This is something that you and he need to discuss. You are NOT in a battle here Myrta. You are supposed to be on his side. You are supposed to help him and he in turn help you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My husband , I know this for sure, has always being sure of my LOve for him, It does not matter if I open or clam up, he knows this. Because is not what I say, but what I do. And my actions even though I had an A, were of Love ALWAYS!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really then read these next quotes from your H. There is clearly a misconnect between what you think an A means and the presence of OM in your life and what he thinks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am convinced that my wife has not regained the love she had for me. She was profoundly in love with the OM and continued contact until two weeks ago. There has to be some withdrawal, but she denies it. It was only two weeks ago that she received the phone call from the other woman that the OM was dating on the side. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And then there is this one where you tell him what you think and feel about OM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Two days ago I casually told my wife that in a couple of years we would forget the whole thing and that the OM and the affair would be a distant unpleasant event. I guess I was speaking more for myself, but in any event Myrta quickly responded by saying she would never forget the OM because he was A VERY IMPORTANT MAN IN HER LIFE! Obviously these type of statements hurt me deeply and I have struggled with her persistent desire to present the OM as an outstanding person. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, I agree with your H. And if you read Jenny’s post you will see that her thoughts were much like yours while she was in withdrawal. You H said
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> However, I still think Myrta is in withdrawal as she continued to talk to the OM for many weeks and only stopped doing so a couple of weeks ago. It must be noted it has been almost four months since D-day. Myrta thought that everything was OK because she always saw herself as the perfect wife. During the affair she always thought she could give me all I needed as a man. However, I had noted she was distant and not loving anymore. I complained a few times, but did not make a big issue about it.

Myrta also thought she could end the affair with little problem and didn’t think it was a big deal to continue contact with the OM. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, read this next quote carefully. It suggests that you have not cleared the hurdles you think you have with regard to your H. He is struggling and he will continue to for months more. You can help, but you cannot help by denying the obvious ranging from your belief that “you always loved” your H, clearly if you think you are in love with another man and you deny your H in bed, then this cannot be true. There is much you can do to help your H, but it starts with you facing that there really is damage and just “one affair” can and often does destroy a marriage. You need to face that and acknowledge that you were playing around with little or no thought toward your H, your family, and surely your children.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think my wife feels like you do, but I am having a hard time accepting a woman who still thinks about another man. I am willing to fight for my marriage, but I am assuming my wife wants the same. I will not fight anymore if I am the only one trying to improve the marriage. Obviously I was devastated by Myrta’s communication with OM. IN many ways it made me look like a fool once again since I had told the OM not to bother to talk to my wife because she was now completely honest with me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Finally, you say this and I want to comment on it for a moment.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I want to thank you for all your time writing me and being supportive of my husband. I guess he needs that from somebody else, other than me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, my goal, and that of everyone posting to you is to get you and Stanley to a point where he gets what he needs SUPPORT from you and you get it from him. We want to get you to the point where you are NOT defending, but supporting and neither of you need support from me or anyone else other than your God and family.

My response to your statement is a very simple and humble “thank you” to you. We will do our best to support both of you until this marriage is where you both want it. It will take time and patience on your H’s and your part, but I am convinced that you two will make it.

God Bless,

JL

Just Learning---wow,it looks like you had a bad weekend since you came back to post harder than ever! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
You can keepon telling me that I am in this deep fog still and that I dont show my husband my love to him. But I am sure how I feel!! I can see very clearly all the damage I have caused my marriage, and I know that is going to take a long time for us to feel ok with each other, or I should say "normal" again.
While I was having the Affair I was very deep in the fog, but yet I could see that I was doing something very wrong to my husband,my marriage, my children. But yet, since the mind is so "altered" I could not bring myself to stop it. So I continue with it, even though I was having sleepless nights and I could not bring myself to be more receptive and loving to my husband. It was not because my lack of love for him, but because, I felt UNWORTHY of his love, of his sexual advances. I felt dirty becausse I was having sex with another man. You seem to doubt every word I post here, but yet, everything that my husband says, is what it is. He must be telling the truth, but Me, since I am the WW must be lying thru my teeth. Hmm......
Just because my contact was broken only two weeks ago, does not mean, I am still in love with the OM. Just because NC started two weeks ago, does not mean I am in this FOG., that I dont see reality. I see everything very clearly. I see that you are a one sided person with my husband, but everything that I post or my husband post is used against me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
My husband did not know before why I refused him in bed, but he knows why I do it now. Most of the times, I dont refuse him, but there are times, that he can clearly see that I a m not in the m ood, or simply I am too tired. But he insists anyways, like he is looking for a way to start a fight with me, making himself be MY Victim!
My apology to Kiwi, might had been a bit late, but it was a sincere apology. People sometimes talk without thinking. And if you noticed my post to her, you could see that when I put that she was in my shoes, it was put in quote, meaning "sarcasm". No, I dont think we are in the same shoes, since she is one woman and I am another. We all say, think and act differently. Even if there are some similirarities, we are different.
When I was with the OM, I made myself, I convinced myself I was in love with him. Because I thought that I could not go to bed with another man, if there was no love. So since I was "In love" with him, I did not see myself as this horrible woman!! Can you understand that, Just Learning?
If I was not willing to try to make m y marriage work, it I thought it was not worth it, I would not be here with my husband, and I would not be posting here, being exposed and critisize like I am the first and last woman in the world that has done this. Like I am this horrible monster, unworthy of my husband, undeserving of being forgiven. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
REeading your post like the first one you wrote me, put me in a very "down" mood, but I will not be scared off again, by YOU or by anyone here!
God Bless
Myrta <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

JL:

I generally agree with your posts. However, my wife has done a great job in trying to mend the marriage (in relationship to many other WWs).

I don’t believe my wife would be that crazy to restart with the OM. However, I never believed she would get naked with another man. Therefore at this point I trust no one. However, she would have to be a completely out of her mind to get back with the OM.


Myrta you also said

quote:

At the time of the affair, I really thought I love this man, he meant a lot to me, not just sexually, but we had long conversations . So if in the peak of the affair ,it had been exposed, I would probably had believed that he was the love of my life. That he was my soul mate.


Myrta has said that if the affair saw daylight the shame would be such that she would run away from the entire family and disappear from the face of the Earth. My kids know the OM---------------- they met him on a trip back home. My wife could never face the kids with this OM. However, at this point I still trust no one---- anything is possible.


Neither of these statements instill confidence in your H but they do reflect how you felt and perhaps feel. You did love OM, and you denied your H in bed and with drew from him. It is hard for him to read that you ALWAYS loved him when clearly your actions said you did not.

I saw the love letters within the emails. In the aftermath of D-day my wife said there was no love and that she simply wrote those things to get a reaction from the OM. However, the letters were so numerous and the messages seemed very sincere. I eventually reached the conclusion that she loved the OM. Many weeks after D-day she admitted strong romantic feelings, but that hopefully they were going away.

In one email after D-day the OM praised Myrta for not having said anything negative about me during the affair. The OM said that Myrta’s reluctance to say anything negative about the BS reflected a lot of class from her part.

BTW, the OM told my wife that I was also having an affair (these folks judge from their own perspective) and that the love in the marriage was over.


He cannot understand this because you did deny him in bed when you had the affair and you did it for a period of time. And YOU are acting the same as before, but he doesn’t know the reason now and he did not know the reason then.

I don’t think my wife is deceiving me now, but I feel terrible on some nights and can hardly sleep if I don’t have sex. Luckily as of late I have become more calm and had a few good nights despite not having sex. BTW, right now the frequency is about three times a week. We have not done it daily for a while.

Regarding the denial in bed. This became much more acute when the affair heated up with the OM coming into town every couple of weeks instead of months. I noted that when we made love my wife seemed nervous and not highly motivated. During this time I also started to lose interest because there was no reciprocity. I also developed premature ejaculation. At times I would start to lose my erection and felt not much interested because Myrta also seemed uninterested.

I asked Myrta why was she saying NO so often and she implied that things change with age. SO I said OK I am 53! I know of many folks who are sexless in their 40s and 30s so I accepted the situation as a slowdown related to old age. However, we both reached orgasms when we had sex, that never went away.

This brings an interesting quote: Once the OM told my wife why she stayed with a man who did not give her orgasms. My wife said she reached great orgasms with me because that was not one of her problems. The OM felt like a stud and the only one that was able to give my wife orgasms. I guess for once Myrta LBd the OM. I am glad she said that. And once again I thank my wife for not thrashing me with the OM.

However, I still think Myrta is in withdrawal as she continued to talk to the OM for many weeks and only stopped doing so a couple of weeks ago.

I want to believe my wife was simply taking care of her withdrawal and trying to ease the pain of the OM. However, she might have played both sides of the fence by initially telling me she loved me and that the OM was just a fling. Early on I intercepted an email from the OM where he was asking Myrta about my comments regarding the fact that Myrta was in love with him.

quote:

I think my wife feels like you do, but I am having a hard time accepting a woman who still thinks about another man.

This was a huge issue for me many weeks ago. I had an awful time accepting the fact that my wife had feelings for the OM. I told her over and over she was in love with the thrill, fantasy, and secrecy of the affair. I told her that she had mostly seen the OM for sex in dark hotel rooms and that the rest of the relationship was long distance. She refused to believe the relationship was a fantasy and that it felt real. I then proposed Myrta to fly back home and to spend 2-3 weeks living with the OM. I wanted her to see the OM’s face on a daily basis so she could see REALITY. She refused my proposal and for that I give her a lot of credit. I was not thinking very straight back then and was very distraught with the thought that she had loved the OM. To me this love was a greater issue than the sex.

BTW, Myrta says that the sex with the OM was great!

Myrta;

We were posting at the same time (me in the loft, you in the kitchen). I just saw your post and I believe that you are correct. Many WWs feel guilt when they have sex with the BH. One could say that guilt is better than being able to have sex with the BH with no guilt. Retrospectively I can see how nervous you were, but you know me. I am not one who questions everything!

Do not take JL's words personally. He is simply pointing the negatives to help us. You have done many positive things that he does not need to mention. He is not here to stroke our egos. Keep plugging away!

Since we are not going to MC this forum has provided an opportunity to vent and you have written some amazing things that you were not saying a few weeks ago. You are changing in front of my eyes!

LOve!

<small>[ September 19, 2004, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Stanley and Myrta, it's very cool that you are both posting good, honest stuff to each other.

JL, you were a bit grumpy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Myrta is not saying anything differently from any other FWW that's posted on this board.

Myrta, your last post to JL made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up because I could have posted those very same, exact words just after d-day. In fact those are the very, very words I used to my H. The sleepless nights from guilt, the feeling it had gone too far to ever recover my marriage from, the fact I wasn't a horrible person, the feeling that I could only sleep with another man if I was in love so therefore it must be love.

You say we're all different, heck, we're so much the same its scarey.

Please don't feel victimised, Myrta, it's very unusual for JL to be so hard. Although when I told JL, OM and I had "unfinished business" and that's where the A came from I think there were some quite heated posts between us. JL has no motive or agenda here but to help. And sometimes the famous MB 2x4 really does help.

Please keep posting here. After you and I had a rocky start (and I have no hard feelings about the F..you) I really like your honesty.

Jen

<small>[ September 19, 2004, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>