Could be that Steve recommended Plan B right off the bat simply for the primary reason of Plan B - to protect the BS from further pain and love bank withdrawals - plus to allow her to concentrate on her personal recovery. infaith is very likely irreversibly overdrawn and compassion for her H may be the only noble thing she can give to him once he accepts the "brutal" help.

infaith, did Steve speak of marital recovery?

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
Could be that Steve recommended Plan B right off the bat simply for the primary reason of Plan B - to protect the BS from further pain and love bank withdrawals - plus to allow her to concentrate on her personal recovery. infaith is very likely irreversibly overdrawn and compassion for her H may be the only noble thing she can give to him once he accepts the "brutal" help. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YES! Of course! Excellent observation, Dave. I forgot all about her low love bank. Def near empty.

I too am interested in whether Steve spoke of marital recovery.

Bet faith is taking a long over due snooze right now.

Jo

Nope, she's not. She's tried, but has a lot of friends worried about her.

Steve said that recovery was possible, BUT only with a lot of help. He is really sick. He is an excitement junky. He has a need to create excitement. He has 'cloak and dagger' tendencies.

I personally don't hold very much hope. The things he has done are ludicrous.

I will begin my letter.....

ANY ONE willing to share theirs?

In Faith

I think the only way to marital recovery would be if Faith's H gets into intensive therapy and truly wants to change. If he's doing it for her, he may not be honest with the therapist.

Even tho he admits he has issues, but only since caught, please note that he has very likely been with OW since he dropped Faith off from their vacation, D-day (typical uncaring foggy WS) and has not initiated contact of her since.

I think Faith needs to get strong all on her own, then decide what SHE wants, without any influence from WH. [Plan B]

Jo

Dave?

Isn't there a Plan B letter on the GQII forum somewhere?

You know what to search for?

Jo

Faith,

Do a search on the GQII board for "Plan B Letter". It should yield some good results for Plan B letters that have been approved and sent.

Lv,
Jo

Here's first draft:

Dearest H,

It is with a very heavy heart I write this. I apologize for the part I played in creating an environment that helped to make your affair with OW possible. I foolishly took you at your word that we were working towards our common goal of having a family, with a stay at home mom. I stood by you with all of the heart wrenching choices we made together supporting our decision with your career, encouraging you & telling you not to worry about me being alone. When we spoke of our ‘solid foundation’, and the fact that we could handle the separation that this new job would require of you, I truly believed it. I understood and filled my time, while you were focused on your career, that was to make our life together complete. While I waited for you to return, I busied myself, building my MK business and even taking on a Jewelry line to ensure I was not bored with the traveling responsibilities of your new job. I thought by this coming year we would have it all.

Given your past tactics and my instincts, I should have checked your stories from the beginning. Now that I know part of what has been going on, I have to admit that I knew all along. I just did not want to believe it. I wanted to believe in you. And I did.

We have invested a lot of time and energy and emotions in this relationship. When I remove the ‘cloak and dagger’ portion of H, I know in my heart we had a wonderful marriage. I want you to know that I am willing to work this out; avoiding the mistakes we have made in the past and make a new life for both of us.

I cannot do this until you end your relationship with OW and seek some major professional help for your problem with creating an illusionary world for yourself and manipulating others choices.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. XXXXX has agreed to be a mediator if there are any personal items you want from the house.

I ask you to please honor my request for solitude from you, as you must know the pain and suffering you have inflicted upon me with your lies and deceit, from the beginning of our relationship. You really have a deep and serious illness. I still love you, but I cannot see you under these conditions.

I do want to be able to rebuild our relationship someday. I want us to be able to meet each others emotional needs and to avoid doing things that hurt one another. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be reasons for us to separate. I want to again be your best friend and someone who is always there when you need me. I want you to be mine, as well this time.

As soon as I am assured that you have been making progress with a professional that can help you with ‘the lying’ and are no longer seeing OW, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I loved you when we were married and I continue to love you now right up to this day. I just cannot help you until you get the professional help that you need and also promise me your heart, whole heartedly.

I love you so much (so is a lot),
T

OK my friends...I know some is word for word, but I think it is a good start.
In Faith

This is not a typical Plan B situation and what your letter needs to say may be out of our league.

That said, I think it's very good.

One suggestion: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I cannot do this until you end your relationship with OW and seek some major professional help for your problem with creating an illusionary world for yourself and manipulating others choices.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Consider changing this to read: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I cannot do this until you permanently end your relationship with OW, agree to never establish contact with her again, and commence appropriate, professional mental health therapy/assistance for your problems with creating an illusionary world for yourself and manipulating others' choices.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Leave him no room and no excuses. He can't just "seek" help. You want him to get it and for it to be effective, right?

WAT

WAT: great suggestions.

I have thought of more to put in it. I will re-submit later today. As far as the panel here not experienced in this matter – Dr. Steve said to have you look at it. Who knows? Perhaps there are more out there and we will soon be able to help them too. I do realize that marriage counciling has dropped to the bottom of my list and comes only after he shows REAL PROGRESS in his issues.

That being said you have all been a wealth of strength for me – in this whirlwind spiral down – wow – I am not sure I even have the words…I was happily married this time last week and ….

I am getting ready to go to the doc...I am thinking I may have her recommend a 'head games' therapist for me and also one that may be able to help him - I would like to suggest a good mental disorder doc., as I know that he really needs help and that is the only thing I can do for him. If he does it, it is up to him. If he doesn't, also up to him. Either way, I can move on knowing I have done absolutely everything I could for him. That would be the last thing I ever do for him.

It's pretty good but could use a few "adjustments".

I foolishly took you at your word that we were working towards our common goal of having a family, with a stay at home mom.
Leave this out. It’s extremely sarcastic. It means that the only reason he said it was to deceive you.

Given your past tactics and my instincts, I should have checked your stories from the beginning.
Again, this is really pointing the finger. If you would have had to check his stories out from the beginning, there would not have been a beginning. Also, you didn’t know his past and tactics until you had seen them so you couldn’t have known you should have checked them out

We have invested a lot of time and energy and emotions in this relationship. When I remove the ‘cloak and dagger’ portion of H, I know in my heart we had a wonderful marriage. I want you to know that I am willing to work this out; avoiding the mistakes we have made in the past and make a new life for both of us.

I cannot do this until you end your relationship with OW and seek some major professional help for your problem with creating an illusionary world for yourself and manipulating others choices.
Change this to you will end all contact with him until he ends the affair. Then you will talk about your possible future together.

I ask you to please honor my request for solitude from you, as you must know the pain and suffering you have inflicted upon me with your lies and deceit, from the beginning of our relationship. You really have a deep and serious illness.
Even of all this is true and he has serious problems, you need to tone it down. Keep it simple. Just tell him what he needs to do. Don’t tell him he is seriously ill, manipulative, a lying deceiver, etc.

As soon as I am assured that you have been making progress with a professional that can help you with ‘the lying’ and are no longer seeing OW, I will be willing to discuss our future together.
Keep these all together. Above you told him he simply needs to end the affair and get help. Now you tell him he needs to show real progress doing this.

Rewrite it a few times. Try to keep the main points together. Keep it focused on the positive (you love him and want to reconcile and what he needs to do to make this happen) and don’t focus in the negatives (he is seriously ill, manipulative liar and simply tried to deceive you your entire relationship).

infaith - I endorse Chris' comments - with a comment.

He's right on the money for a "normal" Plan B letter, i.e., a Plan B letter shouldn't contain accusations, assign blame to the WS, etc. I was less concerned with these statements given my "bias" that you ought to be playing hard ball with your H and not soft peddle your criteria for further communication with him.

So, Chris comments are good ones depending on how nice you want to be. Just be careful not to take too much blame on yourself.

WAT

Hi,

I 2nd Chris' suggested revisions and recommend the letter be short and to the point without giving too much detail as to why you feel it is needed.

Simply put:

1. Brief outline of need for plan B (don't use MB terms). Need to protect your love, etc.

2. Brief outline of plan B requirements. NC letter, radical honest, poja, etc..... Do not explain too much... you want him to wonder about what you need so he will then ask if he is considering it. You can use this as a gauge.

3. End it with what you want and maybe list 1 or 2 of you ENs. Not demand, just say it softly....
'I loved the man I married and hope we can meet again someday. 'Til then, please respect my need for the contents in this letter.'

4. End it as sincerely or as nicely as possible. No ILYs.... not yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Is it normal to send a copy to OW?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I reason to suspect that he has been hiding something in the attic. We have never been up in the attic.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">was there anything of interest in the attic????

Pep

It depends on the sitch. Some do and some don't.

But in Harley's book "Surviving an Affair" he recommends it for the example affair story he covers in the book.

Didn't Harley recommend it for your sitch, T? I assumed he had, maybe I misunderstood. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Jo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by infaith:
<strong> Is it normal to send a copy to OW? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What did Harley say about this subject? Does he want to see a copy of your PB letter before you send it?

Pep

It is normal to send a copy to the OP.

This communicates your desires and may set the record straight regardless of what the WS may be telling the OP.

That's the only reason to send a cc to the OP.

If she already knows what you're thinking, no need to send it, but also no harm.

In your sitch, I don't see what harm it can have. She may be as shell shocked as you, huh? Ideally, she'll be sending a Plan B letter to him as well - assuming our goals are noble - to see him get some help.

WAT

I wouldn't though that may not be what Steve recommends. The reason why I would not is because most OWs think they are not the problem and like PBR (the psycho OW I displeasure of dealing with), she said the problem was mine not hers. Let's see that was while she was calling my house, having xx w/my H, sending body part pix to the WS which he viewed on our family computer, helping him spend family $$ on their A, etc.....

I quickly realized, I was not dealing with a sane OW. I wrote her a separate letter, delivered by the WS himself. Didn't do any good. She was already lost in STUPID LAND by then.

U take your chances. I think it w/b better not to send. The OW does not need to know your plans. She probably won't help you anyway. Why should she? Definitely not in her A favor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

BTW, what was in that attic? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

JMHO,
L.

I wrote this last night and it did not come through, I was asleep by 10, but awake at 3, so I have NOT been up all night:

Yes, Dr. did recommend sending a copy to her with a hand written portion. I just wanted to be sure that YOU all knew that. Reason being, I think I mainly composed 1st draft for HER benefit. Which now I see as wrong.

I also need to get into the PB I will need a commitment on his part to be truthful to me.

Hand written portion to her: to outline the fact that “I want the opportunity to work on our marriage. I want my husband back and that I believe we can be happy. And then enclose my number for her to call."

The prior 2 suggestions are from Dr. Steve. He also said when she does get a hold of me or I of her…I need to convey to her that “it is a marriage and there was NEVER any talk of divorce.” Play lie and truth with her. Listen to her. AND Yes we had sex on a regular basis. All from Steve.

Truth: He led me to believe over the past, at a guess, 8 months, that he was having "performance problems", he did seek help through our mutual doctor. By golly, all he had to do was "pop" a pill and ALL was well. Wife happy.

Pep: As far as the attic goes, no one will let me walk across the ceiling...there was a path. BIL will come Friday to do a snoop session. I am real curious if we are right about his hiding place. Things are slowing down around here:)and I AM off to bed.

About the attic: All of our ladders have been removed from the house, we used to have 2. My sister and I were in the garage, when she looked up and asked "what is up there?" I told her nothing but old rat poop, as I had been told.

We then saw the bookshelf, sitting on another sturdy shelf, strategically placed, we thought: "let’s go look"!

She climbed up, I warned her that the bookshelf was not connected to the wall, it could fall over. I then looked closer and IT HAD BEEN SCREWED TO THE WALL! She asked that maybe he attached it to be earthquake proof, BUT nothing is kept on the shelf really. He doesn't even mow the lawn, he really wouldn't think about it falling down, for normal reasons. We did freak.

The floor to the attic is unstable, according to the previous owners. We did not go up there, we just flashed a light around. There is a blown in insulation layer, looks like a 6" snowfall ALL OVER THE FLOOR. EXEPT there is a path all the way down to the other end of the attic.

Sister would not let me walk through it. BIL is now coming Friday to look. I don't know if I can wait that long though.

I just went out to look around in the garage - H is organized, the garage is a disaster & always has been. I have organized the garage at least once a year and it always seems to be in shambles within a few weeks later.

The drill we own has been missing for months. I have looked everywhere. HE even mentioned it to me a few months back. AND I just found the drill! In a very obvious place. THERE IS NO DOUBT it was not there before.

I looked closer at the shelf. It has been attached to the wall in 3 places! This is totally weirding me out. I have to get up there! But, I will not do anything stupid.

FYI: I am not weird, nor have I watched too many movies. Really. I am normally a calm, rational, think before I react, kind of gal. I also have a ton of patience – which is running out, regarding the ATTIC!