FP I have been divorced now for 3 years and I have custody of my children. I too felt like you I didn't want to move towards divorce because of the pain that I thought it would bring my children. One day a friend of mine told me that it was better for a child to come from a broken home then to live in one. I will never forget those words.

Thanks Carl.
I understand what you mean.
Right now though, my 13 year old son does not have any idea how broken home really is.
That's one of my concerns with using exposure...
FP

Bump...Looking forward to more inputs......

Short update:
WW agreed over the weekend to go to MC.
We have an appointment tomorrow night.

Still really looking forward to others inputs on my situation & questions.
Thanks.........

I'm an idiot. One minute I think we're moving forward, and the next I think we're crashing and burning.....
It's 9:30pm. She gets out of work at 5:00pm.
She didn't come home, didn't call.
I'm sick to my stomach. Panic attack!
It will be tough to Plan A well tonight.....

Fresh Pain,

I am so sorry for what is happening, and I hate to be one that dumps on you, but I believe if something is not working, then you need to change it.

Your wife has no consenquences for what she has done. It looks like there have not been any for each instance she has strayed.

If she cared what you think, she would not be going to a friends house and coming home early in the morning, and she would not stay away from home after work.

It looks like the affair is still going on right in front of you. If you continue to believe her when she makes excuses, she will continue to do what she is doing.

She is trying to twist what is going on, by calling you controling. This is a mockery of what is happening.

HOWEVER, your choices are to stay with her, and try to work it out, or to leave.

If you stay, you must use all the tools you have to end her affair, because there is no chance for your marriage while she continues.

So, you need a plan. You need to run the plan no matter what she says, or what she does. She will use every threat, and ever trick she can think of to stay in the affair. Like an addict, for that is what she is. Affairs have a chemical element to them, and her brain is addictec to the high she gets from contact. Unless you can help her break contact, she will remain addicted, and the ruin of your family will continue.

I suggest you call the Harleys for counseling, so that they can help you put together a plan to save your marriage. We are fellow travelers, and some of the best on MB have responded to you, but I believe you could really benefit from getting professional help.

As far as being controling. You can't make her do anything, but then you don't have to stay either. You simply decide what you have to have from her to not kick her out, and if she doesn't do it, she goes, or you go. She is free, but so are you. You can make it about you, not her. You explain that this is killing you, and that you can't stand it any more. If she says you are trying to control her, you explain that she is free to do whatever she wants, but so are you, and unless she wants to act like a married person, and live like one, you will let her be single. Her choice, she has complete freedom.

What will hurt your sons is not the truth, it is what she is doing. It is her actions that will hurt them, and her actions will destroy your family if you don't find a way to help her.

Here are some more links about plan A.
Mthrrhbard on Plan A and natural consequences

I suggest that if she wants to have the freedom to do whatever she wants, then she also suffer the consenquences of her choices. Trying to shield her from them will only bring further harm.

Now, you don't know what will happen, but you need to take the path that has the MOST CHANCE of producing the best results.

Now about trust.
You shouldn't trust her until she is willing to account for all her time, until she can come and go acording to schedule, and until she gives you all computer passwords, phone records, and until her life is an open book to you. NO one has the right to destroy you in secret. IF she wants a private life, she has the right to get a D, and have it. YOu can't stop her, but you don't have to live with her if she isn't willing to act like a married person.

Remind her that she is free, but so are you.

Please tell us what your plan is, and if you have a hard time with making one, please call the Harleys (this site) for help. I think with the right plan, you have a good chance.

SS

Still Seeking,

Thanks for your inputs. I read thru the links on Plan A you provided.

I’m still not sure I understand the concept of ‘boundaries’ very well.

I’m really unsure about if the A is continuing. It’s really tough for me to get a clear picture. My gut says just maybe…..

As I understand more of the bigger picture, there is a blurr between problems associated with the A, problems with our M and problems in WW’s entire life. So I’m not sure if WW is responding like she is because the A continues, or if it’s just the depth of the rest of the issues in her life that are overshadowing the A’s effect in her perspective.

We went to a MC for a first visit the other night. I hope to get a better plan on how to help things from there. It does seem like a slow process. I hope WW will stick with it. I hope MC really helps, because I don’t think I’m equipped to do this myself….

I’ll try to keep posting.
Thanks again.
Freshpain.

There is a series of good books on boundaries, including "Boundaries" and "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud and Townsend. One might be worth adding to your reading list.

Freshpain:

I'm reading these books myself. They are awesome. I highly recommend them.

I've read everything here on your thread. Having come from an abusive background myself, I think I understand your W's behaviour.

As a child, she was sexually abused. She had no control over what happened. It sounds like she is still very angry at her family for not protecting her against this. Her defense mechanism is to close off her heart so it doesn't get hurt again. I don't think that she has ever dealt with those feelings. It seems that because you are close to her family she may see having an "alliance" with them. Therefore you are the enemy. It seems like what your children have gone through have triggered these emotions through first your youngest having a similar experience and your oldest almost losing his life. I believe she is a terrific mother to them because of the incredible amount of guilt she feels--making up for what was not available to her. The real world to her is understandably a very scary and painful place, a world she doesn't want a part of. But what happened to them was out of her control. So she's creating a world she can control. These behaviours and affairs are something she can control--right or wrong. I don't think she realizes how much you hurt because your pain could never be a much as hers. It just doesn't compare.

By not exposing her behaviour and affairs to her family and your children, you are enabling her to continue. A person doesn't change until it is too uncomfortable or painful to remain the same. You and your sons love her. So does her family. You all want what's best for her. The best way you can help her now is to have an intervention of sorts, by saving her from herself. I think that if you tell your children and her family there will be no place for her to hide. She will not change until she is made to confront her own feelings and deal with them. She is shutting all of you out to avoid doing that. Just like an abusive spouse who isolates the other so there is no opposition for the abuse not to continue. In this case, she's doing it to herself.

I do warn you it won't be easy. And it certainly won't be pretty. You can expect a very wild ride. I know you don't want to hurt your wife. But she is doing more harm to herself, and everyone who cares about her, than you ever possibly could.

<small>[ October 15, 2004, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>

SAB,
Wow, I think your insight is very close to what is happening in my situation. Thanks for taking the time to read thru it all. I guess you really can read thru all of my ramblings, and still make sense out of this.
I’m beginning to think that this is not a usual ‘affair’ situation, and the circumstances may be more unique than most. I hope you can understand my hesitancy for exposure. I have to think of this as an absolute last resort, when I am sure that the A is continuing. If I use exposure when there is any doubt in my mind, then I risk doing even more damage to already fragile relationships. It could permanently destroy her relationships with the rest of her family. In turn, I could be ‘blamed’ for that, and could ruin any chance of reconciliation. I know it may come to require exposure, but I need to be patient, and I need to be absolutely sure. I’m holding some hope that MC will have a chance.
I’ve also now finished reading His Needs/Her Needs. I understand more of women’s needs, but honestly, an awful lot just doesn’t fit with this situation.

I still feel very blind in the situation. I wish I knew the real truth of what she is thinking, feeling and doing. My gut still just says ‘maybe’ the A continues…..

Thanks again for inputs. All are welcome.
Freshpain.

Yes. You need to be absolutely sure before you approach her or anyone in your family. When you are, make sure you confront her with the facts of what you know, how you know them and how it affects you. It will be hard to do, but remember not to LB.

Good luck in your search.

bump for freshpain

bump again

What's going on? How are you?

SAB,
Thanks for bumping my thread, and for asking about me. A little more has happened, and I guess I'm getting a bigger picture all of the time.

It's all still blurry and confusing.

WW met with OM early last week to tell him it was over (again).

I'm leaning towards believing this, but I am not for sure. She is still very poor about time accountability.

We started MC. We're focusing on our marital relationship, and not yet much about how other things may be affecting it. I'm not sure if any of this is fog talk, or if I'm just now learning her true feelings. She apparently feels totally emotionally abandoned by me, as has felt that was for years. She apparently gave up on me earlier this year. She did fall head-over-heals in love with OM. It's overwhelming to hear how much she is emotionally attached to him. We went last night, so today is probably a bad day for me to be posting. I'm still shaking.....

I may talk to my doctor about anti-depressants.

The MC really hasn't steered me away from basic plan A. MC is just trying to get us to express the issues while there, and to establish at least a little normal conversations at home. I know, a long long process....I just thought that I might feel a little more optimistic going to MC. Instead I feel like an insensitive villian, who has igonored his wife's emotions for a lifetime.

Anyway, we're supposed to continue MC once a week. I still feel blind about what the heck she is really doing much of the time. I'm planning on continuing plan A & MC and see what progresses. We're still not letting our children know much. I just wish it would stop getting worse all the time.

I'm glad you wrote anyway. We were worried about you.

WW met with OM early last week to tell him it was over (again).

You only have her word for this. Did you get it in writing? How about a No Contact letter? Now you tell can tell your family as well. The sooner the A comes into the light of day, the sooner it can end for good and you can start working on your M.

Good luck.