AW,

I keep wondering who ever thought that 18 year olds were adults. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I sure know mine weren't/aren't.

So are feeling older, say maybe 37?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I got married much later in live 31, so it seems strange to me for you to be so young and have children the ages of yours. But the reality is you are more the norm than I am. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> The cool news is that when you two hit your 40's you will be back to a couple and enjoy life. The 40's are a very good decade and I think you two will really enjoy that period of your life.

Has it crossed your mind that some of the issues you are addressing are due inpart to midlife crisis? Which is really not a crisis, but is a change in the body which leads to changes in mood.

I know I mentioned this to Aussie, but I do have distant relatives that life very near Perth. I have never been to that part of your country, but I sure do like the parts I have seen. My father used to go to your country for R&R during WWII. He loved it and always claimed he wanted to retire and move there. Having been there now, I can see why he felt that way.

I think it is good that you are taking a more proactive role in this. Your H will appreciate it more than you realize. As for the details, tell him what you remember. I think he knows you don't recall them all given the partying that was going on. I also think but it might be good remind him why you were doing the partying, so that you could do this.

I know it sounds bad, but in a way it is also a good thing. It shows that your conscience was an issue even in the middle of it. Really AW I think you two are doing better than you think. He has a variety of issues as we discussed earlier, but I think you making a few moves to open up conversations with him on these topics and especially the A will have a positive affect.

In my time here, the WS's that actually initiated relationship talks and talks about the A, seemed to recover the marriage faster. I think it has to do with the message it sends. You care, you are willing to face the issues, and that leads to a more rapid build up of trust. Further, when you initiate these conversations you have some control of things, and eventually you will fully control the timing. I don't know of a BS or a WS that really enjoys talking about this stuff, but if you start them, you remove the defensiveness from your H's mind and that means that communications will be better.

Must go, but keep up the good work. I think this thing will work out, and you two will end up with a better marriage for all of the effort.

God Bless,

JL

So ok I'm doing the talking now because Aussie is on 'holidays' ...........from about everything <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Anyway I had a talk with Aussie over the details. I had to tell him the absolute truth and mostly that it is all very foggy and vague.
You see I had to get blind stinking drunk to have sex with the OM and it is all pretty patchy.
But I told him all I could. yuck
In fact I was legless as the saying goes.....and that Aussie can attest to having to half carry me from the taxi on those nights.
How in Gods name he never guessed is beyond me. I suppose its because he trusted me and it just never entered his mind.
That hurts me as much as him you know, now.

It was more a case of allowing the sex to happen then thinking it was anything great, or special. I do realy feel so cheap going through the details I can remember. To me its a like a $20 street prostitue trying to remember customer number 'X'.
I just feel so unclean thinking & talking about this.

How he can forgive this is something I cannot get my head around. I have hope he will eventually forgive me - even if not totally - but even so I dont think we can recover that total unquestioning trust we had.
Its just one of the prices I am going to pay isn't it.

Aussie didn't say much through all this, just got that thoughtful look I know so well for a while and as far as I can see went back on 'holiday'.????

So I guess we will see what happens from here.

AW,

Good for you. I think he will think about all you told him for awhile, and then he may ask some questions. What I don't think you understand is that he is looking for a way to stay, he is not looking for away to leave. He has the excuse to leave and he is not using it. So rather than be defensive about this, realize that you are both working toward the same thing, and any thing you can tell him that will help him is a good thing for both of you.

Now if you look at this from that perspective, then it is clear you should NOT withdraw in shame, but should in fact act with some pride in your H. He clearly loves you, it is being tested but the fact that he is NOT gone shows that his love for you is winning over his grief. So AW, talk with him, question him if there is anything else he wants to know, or talk about or just discuss.

Ask him if the two of you could talk sometime about how to make the marriage you both want. It is true you cannot put the Genie back in the bottle, but that is NOT as bad as it sounds. Your H should never really trust you as deeply as he did. However, you should remember that if he is gone, he will need your help more than ever, letters, emails, phone calls, pictures whatever to let him know HE is on your mind. If you are defensive about things, that will trigger his concerns, but if you are open and honest with him, he will develop his trust in you again.

This is a long term project AW, so have patience and give it time. I think you are doing pretty well, and while it probably hurt him to hear these things and it was hard for you to tell him, I suspect it will hasten your recovery.

God Bless,

JL

AW,

I am guessing that this might be a tough week for you two (?), if he knows the details now he might be quite sad or distant for a while and it might take a little while for him to digest.

Ultimately I also think it will help though, if he feels that you have been totally honest with him and there is nothing new left for him to find out, that he now knows everything, and it can't get any worse.

all the best to you two and take care of yourself!

thanks JL & smur

smur every time I type 'smur' I am tempted to add a 'f' to the end of your post name ....lol
sorry need a laugh tonight.

Boy were you right about his withdrawal. Not discussing anything and though he tries to mask it won't be alone with me in any room.

So I'm just sitting back in the study doing not much to get in his way, letting him work it out alone. Popped my head in a few times and asked if he wanted to talk at all, but got a distant no each time.

So I'm waiting.

Hi AW,

I`m away for a few days so not really reading this site,&#12288;I just have an hour at the airport to wait. We might be caught in a cyclone for a couple of days here - I`m in Okinawa in Japan.

I know, I only realised the smurf thing later - it is pretty funny isn`t it.

well, just wanted to say hang in there...

Yeaterday I posted on another thread that nothing seems to be going well as I thought it was.
Well nothing seems to be ok.
I know and accept this is my fault that our M is where it is because of me.

I wonder if now my H just thinks its not worth trying to hard and is looking out for greener pastures.
It took me 4 months since D day to finally get all the details out about the affair, the whole thing, the sex, where, how, when, all of that.

I know I did myself no favours by refusing to discus all the details until now but I admit to fear, fear he would leave or tell me to go and rot in hell. But in any event I didn’t until last week.
We have a very good MC who has done wonders so far but my H has stopped going for the last 2 sessions. MC was a bit concerned about his withdrawal but says give it time. So I give it time.

Ever since the day I gave him all the information he’s had a few phone calls on his work mobile, goes to the study closes the door. He has disappeared for some hours daily and last night was out to 4.30 in the morning & came home pretty well loaded. I had a call early on from him saying he was drinking with the boys and would be home by taxi late.

I have been giving him some space because after our discussion he didn’t want to be near me at all and I did expect that.
He was supposed to go to collect some timber for the patio hours ago. When I asked my son if he knew if Dad was going to pick up anything else he said I don’t think so but he did get a call from Lena about some door or other he said yesterday he would fix for her..
So when did he talk to her yesterday???
Ok Lena is a female staff Sgt who runs his office at the barracks.

Alright I know that I am hyper sensitive and I may be a hypocrite but if he even looks at any woman right now I get all sh*tty..
I just keep allowing my fears to get my imagination working overtime and I feel so stupid.

Myrta and others tell me not to worry he just wants his space until he sorts through all this. But it hard becasue I know I may have wrecked our M.

I never thought that in a million years I’d be here or , well lets face it, commit adultery.
Its an ugly word, hard to face anyone who knows.
I can’t believe how totally insecure I have become. Once I could move a family from state to state, set up and arrange new housing, schools for the kids, sort out the banking and finances , learn the whereabouts of the best shops for bargains in the new area, all those things you do for granted, but all alone, sometimes for months & months , cope with isolation and separation from friends & family… but now I can’t seem to handle the small issues between my H and I let alone the serious ones.
I wonder what has happened to me.?

Up until D day I was this so confident empowered person, so together, proud of my achievements, my children , my marriage, but now, its like I just float from one crisis to another..
I don’t know why he puts up with my crap, but the more considerate he is I seem to want to push him away. I don’t understand that at all unless like Myrta said I feel I don’t deserve him, yes maybe its that.
Now I panic at every side look he gives me, wonder if he is seeing someone or wants to, panic ...
Its frustrating, humiliating, sometimes pathetic.
I hate it, I want to just scream and hate wanting to do that.
There are times I just want to crawl under a rock & stay there.

AW, and other ladies trying to get their husband's attention,

This was posted by Pepperband some time ago. To me, a FBH, this will work weather you are a BW or WW. If you are a BW, this will help get your husband back on track. If you are a WW, this will show your husband you want HIM and enjoy being with him, and think he is the best man in the world.


WARNING R-rated content

Ramp up your sexual aggressiveness with your husband.

Go to Victoria Secrets ... and buy some good stuff.

Wear your new pretty short robe open in the morning showing off your new lace. Bend over and pick things up off the floor so he can see under your short robe. Look fantastic. Smell great. Smile. Give soft eye contact, then smile and quickly look away.... then look back and shut your eyes while smiling. You are trying to ATTRACT a male of the species... remember that? It's NOT that hard (sorry guys, you know it's true) He's visual. Appeal to his SENSES right now ... not to his sense

Wake him up in the morning (or in the middle of the nite) with a BJ. If you do this every day for a week.... what might happen?

Cook his favorite meals.
Play his favorite music.
Touch him inappropriately under the table in the restaurant.

WOO HIM
SEDUCE HIM

Leave little room for him to be thinking about another woman. Take up all the space in his consciousness with the "WOW" factor of getting a lot of sexual attention from his WIFE!

You'll have fun ... and he's an easy mark.... know why? HE LOVES YOU!!!!!!!!

Pep

[ August 07, 2004, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

AW--I feel so bad you are feeling that way with your husband. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> How were things with you and him before the affair? Were you too very close and talk a lot? Is he very different now with you?
DO this sgt.woman know about the affair? Maybe she does, I dont know. In any event, why should she call him to make chores for her? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I guess you are feeling that you are in a weak position right now,and you fear the worst. I would too! But maybe your imagination is taking the best of you.
You know what I would do? I would go and see and talk with this woman, and see whats going on.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Obviously no one is to be trusted right now.
Your husband is in a very fragile mental state right now, with the details of the affair,with the death of his mate,the war,etc, so he could misdirect his emotions elsewhere. Not because he wants to do it and wants revenge, but,because he feels so unworthy . He is not thinking straight!
I am not having a picnic with my husband either. We went to dinner friday night by ourselves, and saturday with another couple, and I thought we were doing just fine,but just last night he told me, that he feels on the "edge" with me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> So, I feel very dishearten with this revelation. Sometimes I feel like I should not try anymore, other times I feel like we are doing so well. But, I am on the edge too, because I never know what kind of mood he is going to have from day to day. I think he is obssesing too much with yesterday, not today or tomorrow. He is obssesed with posting here and getting feedback from WWs. I dont know....
I hope you are better by the time you read this.
Myrta

AW - I have been in contact with Aussie for a long time. I do know that he loves and wants you. He is going through his own issues, but please be there for him.

I know all of this has been extremely hard on you, but things can only get better. Hang in there girl.

Hi AW,
Sorry for your pain right now. IMO Aussie is probably having awful "movies" running through his head after all the revelations & is having a hard time dealing with it. I know I did & still do, but not so often now, & I have 7 OW to deal with, so I can only imagine how he is right now.
Do you know this Lena lady? Can you talk to her at all? Sometimes our imagination is so furtile & we have ourselves convinced something awful, when it really isn't that bad. Just ask her.
I read somewhere, that men need to go into their "cave" to sort their problems out, so maybe this is where Aussie is. Some men can not talk about their problems.
Sending you more {{{{{AW}}}}}
....Eyes

WH 52 / BS 49 / DD 24 / DS 22
Married 6th November 1076
D Day # 1 10th November 2003
H had several A's over 10yrs
Working at staying together forever

Myrta you asked about us before the A?

we were very close and discussed so many things. Our relationship was good before the affair.
Even the effects of the war only brought us together more. That’s why the affair itself came as such a surprise to me, crazy as it may sound. it seemed to have a separate life of it own, not part of my marriage at all.
That just seems so weird now. I really did think it would not affect my M!!

I don't feel as if I'm in a panic right now though like the last 3 days.

I don’t think he would have a revenge affair but I wonder if he confides in Lena who after all has held a lot of operational interaction with Aussie. She would have been one of the few voices he heard when overseas from home. I guess there is a lot of trust there. But that was how my affair started.

I think Believer & eyes I feel I just have to suck it up as it's said here and live with this for a while. I don't think I could or should see her and ask if there is any feeling between the two of them. Right now I think it would actually push him that way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Maybe I should do as pep & Rag suggest and keep him physically involved until his head & heart come around. Its not that I feel so attractive or want to be right now, But as our MC said a well planned seduction is good for both of us. I do so much want to make him happy and if this can work then all he will know is that I want him. That’s got to be better than just crying into my pillow each day.

Myrta I understand all that you feel. It feels so much like a seesaw of emotions right now. One moment I'm up and feeling that we are going so well and then we seem to crash for no apparent reason. I don’t think he knows either. I guess he is seeing the movies in his mind over & over

I don’t understand why we do this, if this is a normal recovery I wonder if I should ever had revealed the affair. It just sucks as a way to live. Panic, fear, insecurity, and eating jealous suspicions that he is doing what I did.

AW--I'm glad you are feeling abit better!
No, I did not mean for you to go and ask her if they were having something. Just to go and see and check the situation, very innocently <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It would be crazy of course to ask her. He would not like it at all@!!!
Wow, so I can see why do you miss so much the way he was with you before. I am sure he misses that a lot too, but now he has to deal with the information and go thru all those "movies" in his mind. My husband has them all the time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I told him most of the things that went on from the beginning, I have told him some other things lately, but the most important,the essence of the affair, he knew from the beginning. But yet, that was not enough for him.
But I do get myself pretty and smell really good for him when we go to bed, even if we dont do anything. He likes what he sees <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> He has become more aggresive and passionate since DD. He gets angry or depressed if we dont make love. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
So, just try to seduce Aussie and I am sure he will welcome you with open arms. He will like it, my husband says that gives him assurance. Maybe it will work wonder with him too.
How are your children when they see their dad like that? Do they go to him and try to be closer to him. Or are they just doing their thing, like teenagers tend to do. Just curious.
Well, thanks for your reply. Take care.
Myrta

Myrta

I don’t think the kids have noticed. To them Dad is just in a carefree mode or something and they are off doing their own thing. He’s there in the morning to say hello and joke and they see him most nights so its much like usual.

I really can’t drive by Myrta as her house is inside the Barracks and no one who does not live there or is not on official business can enter , not me not any wife at all unless you live on site. Very few families even including Senior officers live there. You can’t even see the car park for his battalion from the gate so I can’t do much other and sit in the car outside and that will get me the attention of the security team and just imagine trying to explain my way out of that!! He’d hit the roof.

I guess I’m just going to have to work through this myself and ignore the worrisome things for now. I suppose feeling so insecure I may be seeing more than just a military friendship - you know mateship - not a man/ woman thing as such. But I do.

I know we need to give our H whatever they need to feel secure and safe but I can’t sometimes think that all I’m doing is letting him have my body without much real feeling. It’s not that there is none but I just don’t always feel like I want any sex and then I feel guilty for not wanting to have it.
Physically its wonderful, I won’t deny that , but its so much better when my mind is involved too because then its really love.
I have told him that no one has ever made me feel so loved and warm & fullfilled as he does, but I think he doubts that. But thats true.

I'm just not sure if he’s ready to hear that yet and not think I’m lying to him.

Hi Aw,

I'm glad to hear that you're feeling a bit better and are coping OK. I just got back from Okinawa last night - the cyclone (typhoon as they call them here) was fairly dramatic - a lot of boats sunk in the harbour and roads washed away. It was an experience.

I know what you mean about difficulty coping with the emotional distance, and also about how weird SF can feel when there is a lack of real closeness. I think it takes a long time to get back some kind of feeling of closeness. He's off in his own world, doing what he has to to feel better about things... but its really tough waiting it out.

Also I completely agree with you about the way that you can feel totally incompetent and unprepared at times. I am the same. Although right now things are OK with me, sometimes I feel incapable of making the smallest decision, and the tiniest thing, like whether or not H leaves me a phone message, can decide my mood for a whole day. I used to think of myself as a generally capable, intelligent person. Some days now the only way I can get through the day is by concentrating on whatever it is I am doing at that exact moment and putting off any decision-making at all, even if its just about going out with friends next week. Walking on egg shells I think is the phrase...

hi smur
hope you had some fun even in the midst of the typhoon!!

Yes you have it exactly right thats how its feels
right now. If it was not so like a seesaw I could feel more confident of it fading.

Its very hard to be so insecure when I was so much the opposite of this. I try to tell myself it could be worse & I suppose it could - I could be alone.

Aussie has been working very late each night and tonight was at the officers/NCO club for a little while.

The whole regiment is working hard at the moment and he said they would be giving 48 hours leave soon. Thats a bad sign for wives because we know it means a active deployment.
Very much on tenderhooks right now but we can hope Howard declines to send them. Not much hope mind you. Its seems like it's just like all the way with LBJ from the wives point of view. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Its very frustrating to know I am working on a timetable all of a sudden. It seems we will be not given the time we need to work on our M.
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

hes not once been agro at all since I gave him all the info just head down [censored] up at work day & night getting his men ready.
If he gets leave then we will know I guess.

I really want to keep everything together until we know whats going on one way or the other. Thats all I am aiming at right now.

Hi AW,

yes, that could be difficult if he leaves for a new deployment before you have the chance to work more on your relationship. It must be frustrating not being able to have any kind of say about him being away for some time. I can imagine that its an interruption that just delays the process again.

Anyway, as you say it sounds like he is temporarily withdrawn. I guess he is probably just exhausted by it all and needing something else to concentrate on for a while, so his work situation commanding his attention is probably a good thing for him. I guess once he has some more energy and drive again he can start to think about your R again.

Yeah, we did have some fun in Okinawa despite being stuck in the hotel for 2 days- also since I've been back in Tokyo there's been a few earth tremors, some fairly big. My Dad is visiting from Sydney and its been quite a trip for him! Actually I'm very glad to have my Dad here, since H has been staying on Okinawa for 5 days with a woman he met a couple of months ago, who I've never met. He tells me its just friendship, he's depressed and needs friends etc. I've posted elsewhere about this ad nauseum, but it hurts a lot whenever I stop to think about it. I am beginning to doubt whether he is ever going to be ready to take responsibility for his part in the problems of our R over the years, and also, whether we can actually recover if he doesn't. I know I was the FWW - but its been nearly 5 months since Dday now, it was a ONS with NC for almost a year, and even H has recognised how much I've changed for the better. Despite that he keeps tormenting me with these female friends. Sorry I'm just whinging.

Hi all

Smur whinge away hon it's ok. Whenever you need it.

I must say when I heard about the earthquake I did think of you right way an wondered if you were in Okinawa or Tokyo at the time. Glad to hear you are ok though!!

I do think your H needs to get it together though, its seems to be a self destructive thing he is doing now. I don't know what you can do right now being where you are.
I guess there is not much in the way of counseling you could use is there?

We are ok , not good not bad, but getting along fine most of the time, I would like it if he SHUT UP about the OM though, just for a while especially when we get the good oil going if you know what I mean. Its not like I NEED a reminder right then!!

Its good to see that your dad is there for you, he must be of immense comfort right now. I do hope you have some fun and make the most of his visit. You deserve some fun I think.

I'd like to relate something that happened today and start of with one thing, my Mum is sneaky, smart but sneaky.
Now my Mum knew about the A before my H, because I just had to speak to someone and she supported me in finally telling him. She really does love him as much as a Mum loves a child and its returned.
I think I said before its kinds weird for a MIL to be so much of his M life. But love just is I guess.
They have talked about the A & I think we are still together thanks to Mum.

So, while all this Army stuff has been going on my sister rings me up and asks if I can look after her kids and the new baby for 3 nights, Mum thought I could do it.. So what was I going to say?? ’ Sorry Sis but I’ve been screwing this bloke at work and Aussie found out so....… Yeah right.

So there we are in the mad house, 18 yr old DD, 16 yr old DS, 10 yr old niece, 6 yr old nephew and one 8 month old cute little girl, screaming her head off. Nappy with number 2’s.yuck, yuck, yuck , sorry Sis I am NOT washing nappies ever again…………. Out go the cloth nappies to the car, disposables woo who!!!

I love the smell of babies and I get all mushy inside, just can’t help it. I’m sitting there in the lounge room chair with this little darling cradled in my lap, her big blue eyes busily looking her Aunty over sucking on her bottle like you wouldn’t believe it…………… in walks Aussie in uniform, this big dark figure to little Anne, looming over her, the bottom lip starts to quiver as her little glance follows up Aussies chest to his face & then, wow that little face just lit up like a candle, you should have seen that smile.
Aussie face just opened up like a flower, as he looked at her and I just naturally handed the little girl right to him. She was gurgling and laughing as he sat down with her in his lap right next to me, playing that silly little game of blowing on her belly, she just burst into high pitched laughter.
He looked so content for the first time in many months I just started to cry with happiness for him. He didn’t notice at all thank God.
The other two little tearaway’s came hurtling down the hall yelling for Uncle Jack followed by DD who looked on highly amused and said Dad you look good at that and laughed .
Now I know what happiness can be.

That little baby is cute as a button.

Didn’t I tell you my Mum was a smart sneaky so & so???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

PS of course I did forget about the 2am feeds...I feel like death warmed up........ urgh
..but she is a happy litle girl ,, that cute little smile.... why do they have to grow up into teenagers???..big sigh..do you think I'd wake her if I rocked her just for awhile??
You do forget how beautiful babies are. and it makes you feel so contented. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

AW,

They have to pass through the teenage years so that eventually, they bring home grandchildren for you and Aussie to play with. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That is why. And then you can give them back at say Oh about 8:00 pm or so and go to bed when you want. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

JL

Hi AW,

I love your Mum's plan - that's really perfect! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Its so nice to have those contented moments when you really have no worries in the world, even if just for a short while. It can only help you and Aussie, even if its not something directly related to your R.

Yes, its great having my Dad here. How did your Mum take your confession about the A? It seems that it was a good thing that you told her, since she has been able to talk to Aussie about it too. You sound like you have a close family, which can only help.

I have also been considering telling my Dad, since it must be clear to him that things are a bit strange between H and me, and I think he would be supportive of me, we have a pretty good relationship. At present only my brother knows, and even though H previously got on well with my brother, now he avoids any contact with him.